Money next year
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@rockchalkjayhawk yes and no. Every school has a hard cap on RevShare and those amounts get negotiated in advance. So sure you can pay a player but it’s only a fixed amount.
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Slept on it but not well. As i said i think in 22, my fandom for KU was always synonymous for being a fan of Self. I became a fan in 2003. I love what he did for this program and he navigated some difficult stretches masterfully. The two concepts (fan of KU and fan of Self) have diverged from each other steadily for me as it became clear that Bill was not being adaptive, that the players were no longer developing and the locker room mojo was no longer good. While I will always appreciate what Bill Self has done, that contribution is now historical, the program lives on and needs a new hero to take the reins in a new era. My position I think is not an indictment on Bill Self the legend, it is a lack of faith in his ability to be adaptable in a way that meets the moment. Do we have reason to be hopeful that Bill will be able to recruit the right guys and enough of them, and play a deep enough roster that doesnt have chemistry issues and gets better as the year progresses? If so, what gives us this optimism? Other programs are doing it, why arent we? Lets say we bring in a new guy who toils with similar first round exits but is the right fit, and finds his footing after a few seasons .What confidence do we have that Self would outperform that guy if he continues, when every year is a rebuild?
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@approxinfinity said in Money next year:
So if we spent $8million on this roster what if we pay 800k per player for 10 guys? And then create a bonus structure where for every game in the tournament they advance, each players gets an additional bonus and other incentives? Can we build a hardhat lunchpail culture where the players might be getting paid but at least they are genuinely evenly invested in the success of the team?
it was more than that on the roster by a fair bit from the little that I know
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Change is difficult, but sometimes necessary. KU Basketball hasn't advanced past the first weekend since 2018, excepting the National Championship. And, that, of course, must not be overlooked. In fact, Bill Self's tenure at Kansas should, of course, be celebrated. He's the winningest coach in KU history. At the same time, he should be admired for trying to adapt to the changing landscape when other tenured coaches retired.
However, Approxinfinity is right! Bill's production since our national championship has seriously waned. His pay far exceeds his production. And, of course, the college game has changed. It's apparent that Bill has been unable to adapt successfully to NIL and the transfer portal.
Based on his record since the implementation of NIL, Bill is overpaid at $10 million per year. (Player evaluation, player development, etc are specific issues for another time.) When the only person you could pay was the coach and his staff, it didn't matter how much coaches made. Now, his unusually high salary takes from the monies KU can pay players.
Bill has made plenty over his coaching career. Let me suggest that if he really wants another chance at another national championship (which I believe is why he is still coaching), have him reduce his own pay to $1 million next year (He could live on that.) and donate the rest to buying two additional good players. That's what $4.5 million each would get us.
Otherwise, let's salute him for being the winningest coach in KU basketball history and move on. An up and coming coach at much less than $10 million a year gives us much more payroll for that coach's roster. In the age of modern college basketball, I think KU needs to invest more wisely. (Approxinfinity's words).
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To me the issue is it isn't just one thing Self is struggling with in the last 4 years. Roster construction with NIL and transfers playing right away has been an issue. Team culture and chemistry have been an issue. Health has been an issue for both players and the coach. Offensive scheme has been an issue for a LONG time. Defensive scheme has also started to pop up as a problem (though I do blame Hunter for most of that tbh). Player development has been an issue. Conference success, tournament success, double digit loss seasons. These are the outcomes. In the "year of the freshmen" we had the most highly touted and sought after one of the bunch. And while he had his moments, his production was nothing compared to about 5-10 of the other top freshmen. I'm sad to say I'm now on the side of I think it might be time.
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1st yr after our last championship, coach missed the Big 12 tourney and beyond. The next yr, was a good yr till the end based on what happened to this guy
OVERVIEW
A 2024 All-America Honorable Mention and All-Big 12 First Team selection who led the conference in scoring in 2023-24 at 18.3 ppg … A finalist for the Jerry West Shooting Guard of the Year and, including 2023-24, was a three-time semifinalist for the Naismith Defensive Player of the Year awards … Had a spectacular graduate season that was hampered by injury as he missed eight of the final 14 games of the season, including all three postseason contests … Posted back-to-back triple doubles during the 2023-24 season, which were the third and fourth in Kansas history and the first time in NCAA history since the 2007-08 season … Graduated from Kansas in May 2023 … Concluded career with 217 steals, which ranks 11th on the Big 12 career steals records list … Finished with 1,517 points, 745 rebounds, 338 assists and 217 steals with three seasons at Texas Tech (2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22) and the last two at Kansas (2022-23, 2023-24).
Remember? And last yr, was some real bad decisions from the portal! I stand by guys we had because they did well w/players from the past, Champions, plus Gradey, Kevin,and Furphy. This yr was so up and down, not sure any coach could've handled it any better. I'm betting w/a do over starting w/a healthy DP we'd have better results. Sad for our team. Sad for Coach!
I stand w/Coach Self! Afraid we'll lose our good recruits if he steps down, too. -
If Self does hang it up the entire recruiting class is gone most likely. That’s unless you’re able to get someone that Kinney would latch onto which is really the only player that would impact next years roster. I doubt he’d stay with the uncertainty though.
The rest of the class is mid outside him currently. Perry is a pet favorite of Self, a hard nosed player who can’t shoot a lick but has lots of defensive skill and positional size. Barnett is a guy who averages double figures as a Sr on a team that prioritizes shooting and freedom to let it fly. Adkins is a project big that was touted to have a high ceiling as a Jr but regressed changing schools and has shown not much development and his ranking has tanked because of it.
The roster outside of a few has been shopped by their agents it sounds. Doesn’t mean all will go but for guys like Rosario and Mbiya you have no reason to return again given the limited opportunities given to them this year. Put yourself in their shoes. Rosario started then barely played once conference season started. And with Paul, it took 30 games before he was even an option but had to watch all yr as Self ran his two big starters into the ground regardless of the situation. Neither was a perfect player but we saw more positives from them yesterday then several others that continually underperformed. Our coach plays his favorites and that’s just how it is.
A new coach might have the biggest challenge in decades having to fill a roster.
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Watched the postgame. Its painful hearing Self praise Kohl and Mbiya. Its painful hearing him talk about Zuby making big plays. Its painful hearing him say he needs to be healthy to do what he does. None of these statements are untrue, but I don’t have confidence in his analysis of these events to come up with the right takeaways. And the need to reflect with family, when if it werent a bent over the barrel situation, it would be a discussion with administration, and saying he had no issues on the court, is frankly an admittance that he is out of touch and not seeing the bigger picture. And he didnt have a problem throwing Kohl under the bus for not fouling later in the last sequence, after initially praising him. He thought we played a good game outside the first 7 minutes. Is that what everyone else saw?
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Despite not sleeping well, I'm more sanguine (or at least neutral) about all of this. The ball bounces your way sometimes and it bounces the other team's way sometimes. I recall thinking back over those FF years and the 2 championship runs and I think there was always a place where you can find moment in the game where you can say-- if that call goes the other way or the ball didn't drop at that moment... Self's legacy looks markedly different.
Couple ways to interpret that -- we never had a team that was so dominant that we didn't seem to need a little luck to get to the FF or NC... Also, we've been to the tournament EVERY year and had a run of B12 championships that made it seem like we were a juggernaut that should have even more success in the tourney.
But consider how difficult and rare it is to get a National Championship. Only nine schools have won the title since 2004.
UConn (2004, 2011, 2014, 2023, 2024)
Florida (2006, 2007, 2025)
North Carolina (2005, 2009, 2017)
Kansas (2008, 2022)
Villanova (2016, 2018)
Duke (2010, 2015)
Kentucky (2012)
Louisville (2013)*
Baylor (2021)
Virginia (2019)We all want more, but there are schools that have had a lot of success in the last 20+ years not on that list (Purdue, Gonzaga...)
On the PAY FOR PLAY topic, I'll just say that it was necessary and appropriate to pay players. It was also predictable that it would be bumpy, especially with the NCAA's track record of poorly establishing governance that drives the right behavior and also poor track record of consistent oversight and enforcement.
Final point: Performance & Payment.
As a fan, focused on the 40 minutes that we watch on TV, it's hard to remember that player performance goes beyond what we see on court — beyond the stats.
We already know that there are aspects to the game that are beyond analytics, despite trying to count EVERYTHING.
But performance includes many things that we don't see and cannot be captured by analytics. These contributions to a program and to a team should still go into compensation consideration.
For instance, did the player show up to all the workouts? All the practices? Were they engaged in community services with the team and good stewards of the university? Did they do something stupid to damage the program's reputation? Were they disruptive or disrespectful?
When they do all the 'invisible' things right, we tend to ignore them as though they didn't count. But, those expectations are certainly there. And these 'employees' are mostly between the age of 18-23.
I'm disappointed by the loss but I am trying to keep things in perspective.
It was a good group of guys and a good coach. Coach probably did a phenomenal job this year in unique and tough circumstances with DP's situation/injuries.
It was a bad way to lose but the comeback (which shouldn't have been necessary) was still pretty heroic.
Rock Chalk!
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@BeddieKU23 this is Self’s biggest issue imo and why we struggle to get any depth. He picks his typical 7 players and rides with them regardless of what happens. We have seen it kill chemistry and development with this new era of college sports. I have said literally dozens of times thru out the season Kohl, Mbiya and Dawson should be playing more. I think without question had Kohl and Dawson gotten Mari and Elmarkos minutes several games they would have developed clearly being the better players of the bunch.
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@bskeet that’s not a bad take on perspective but I’m sure a lot of folks in Nebraska had a similar take in the early 2000s. Yes Coach Self was once great but that time has unfortunately passed. I’m very grateful for Selfs time here and what he has done. That being said I hope retires at this point, he is only damaging his legacy and this program. Kansas hadn’t had 3 11 or more loss seasons in a row under Brown, Williams or Self til the last 3 years. It’s literally the worst this program has been in my lifetime. If we do nothing to change it, it will continue. I will bet anyone any amount of money I have right now that if Coach is back next season we will once again lose 11 or more games, not win the conference and be sent home in the first weekend of the tournament. 6 of 7 years isn’t the exception, it is the rule at this point.
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@benshawks08 said in Money next year:
"His production (DP) was nothing compared to about 5-10 of the other top freshmen. And they didn't command the $3 million that DP did. That's a big concern.
