Can You Handle The Truth? Self's Traylor Comment A Targeted Farce
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Who was the actual winner after this line was spoken? I believe it was Tom rather than Jack.
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@HighEliteMajor If we’re having this same conversation in March, then there will be 10 threads just like yours. I get the frustration over the sop to Jamari, but I think Jaybate hit the nail on the head with the ego massaging. Last year, when he quit starting Jamari, Jamari pouted for weeks. Diallo, imo, will be the locked in starter by conference play.
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@benshawks08 @JRyman Realize that I did not watch the game the first time with an overly critical lense, nor did I even really notice Traylor to be honest other than the good block.
I only got focused on this because of Self’s quote, and then the reaction to that quote. So I rewatched again, to see what I missed.
So, I take it then, many just don’t want to see for their own eyes, judge with their own eyes, or just really don’t care to see? So I guess I appreciate that the factual basis of what I’ve suggested is not being challenged, it is more because the exercise is painful or makes you uncomfortable.
Some really don’t want the facts.
And it seems incredibly timely given what we saw from Diallo, right?
Funny, the point @jaybate-1.0 made is exactly why engaged this exercise. Because the day after the game, I said Self made those silly comments to pump up Jamari. Any dispute?
By the way, my ranking of players that was referred above is based on what our team would look like without the player. Who can we live with, or without, based on performance, and still succeed? I ranked Vick higher than #12 because of the uncertainty with Greene. I ranked Lucas ahead of Traylor because Diallo brings everything Traylor might (rendering his skill set irrelevant) from a depth perspective, and because Lucas is a superior rebounder and defender on the block. Injury or circumstance can change this sort of stuff at any time.
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Mason
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Ellis
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Selden
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Bragg
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Graham
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Diallo
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Svi
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Mick
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Greene
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Vick
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Lucas
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Traylor
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@HighEliteMajor I would rank Evan Manning above Traylor because he has come in and closed out games with a couple clutch 3s!
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My 12 best players so far this season would be:
- Selden
- Mason
- Graham
- Ellis
- Bragg
- Traylor
- Svi
- Lucas
- Diallo
- Mick
- Green
- Vick
But if you want to say most important to the team or base it on what our team would look like without the player it would be:
- Traylor
(just kidding)
- Mason
- Selden
- Graham
- Ellis
- Diallo
- Svi
- Traylor
- Bragg
- Vick
- Mick
- Lucas
- Greene
And just to be clear the above discussion regarding Traylor was not painful, nor did it make me uncomfortable, I just don’t see the point. Traylor didn’t play! Isn’t that what you wanted? Why pick apart and bash his four minutes in the second half.
I also think HEM tends to discount the value of experience and mentality. More often than not, (and certainly more often than Hunter or Bragg or Diallo at this point) Traylor is in the right place at the right time and will often explode (as jaybate has mentioned) beyond his position to make plays. I agree Bragg and Diallo are better players with more talent. But that doesn’t mean Traylor no longer has a place on the team or is worthless in the pursuit of a national championship.
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Man… you work hard on your posts. Great work!
There must be a reason for all of this.
I was over reading on KUSports this morning… about Vick. And he mentioned how Jamari helps him… kind of mentors him. Of course, we hope Jamari isn’t passing on his basketball knowledge! Yikes!
But I am starting to think that Jamari is the “example” of how a player earns PT. He isn’t our most capable player but earns PT. I think the message to the players is that it really isn’t a matter of making a mistake or not. It is all about having the right attitude, hustle, yada yada…
I’m not at practices… this is just speculation. I am trying to find an angle to address the situation with Jamari.
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@drgnslayr maybe, just maybe Mari’s bb IQ isn’t as low as you think, or hope for. Bragg has also mentioned Mari helps him.
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I am sky high on Vick.
Not on what he can provide us right at this moment (though he does offer plenty).
I’m thinking we have a player that could easily be with us for 4 years and will eventually make a huge contribution over 4 years!
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@drgnslayr I picture Vick and Graham hounding opposing guards in the future and get giddy!
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I am curious why Jamari thinks he is going to get a rebound by positioning himself directly under the basket. He will get more rebounds by standing at the top of the key.
That one fact blows me away. It did last year, too. I captured still images from a game and posted them as proof. He spends all that energy wanting to get a rebound and totally gifts over the position to our opposition.
I’m not desiring to bash Jamari. But I also can’t glaze over reality.
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@HighEliteMajor glad you made this thread as my jaw dropped while I was listening to Bill Self after the game when he made the Jamari statement.
I do understand @jaybate-1.0 point about helping players egos and i figured that was the only reason Bill would say something like that.
Do keep in mind its the beginning of December and this is the time of year we start guys like Jamari to send a message to other players. I see what Jamari brings to this team and its the same thing he has had over the past three years. Come on folks is he a guy who you start on a top 10 program in conference play and post season play? Jamari is best used as a spark off the bench always has, always will.
Look i am not bashing Jamari, really i like the guy. But think about it @JRyman; Do you really want a guy who is barely 6’8’’ tipping off each game? Do you think he is going to set the tone against 7 footers of Kentucky to start the game? Do want to rely on his offensive production in big 12 play?
Like I said its December so i am not too concerned. HighEliteMajor is not beating a dead horse, there are a LOT of KU fans that understand his views.
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I kind of hope Coach plays all his players. Sure Taylor will see less and less playing time with the emergence of Diallo. Yet I’m not sure why he can’t still get some playing time.
KU has one of the deepest teams in the country, and it’s a veteran team. A team that has played together. Why not use that strength? Just overwhelm foes. No reason any player should average 30 mins plus of playing time a game.
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@DoubleDD Except Graham and Mason. One of those guys needs to be on the court at all times are we are clearly best with both in the game. But agree even then they should be at 25-30 in blowouts. Rest em now while we can!
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Exactly, it would be nice to roll into the Tournament with a healthy and rested team. It seems the last couple years KU has come out of conference play pretty beat up, and worn down.
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Diallo needs to start now. Traylor needs to play just enough to keep him interested. The only way this team makes a deep run in the tourney is if Diallo develops into a legitimate threat to score 15-20 points on any given night, grab 12 rebounds and block 5 shots. The only way that happens is if Coach Self lets him play through his mistakes and gives him the minutes. I like Traylor a lot. At one time I thought he would be our next TRob. Unfortunately, I was WRONG in that assessment. He can and will play an important role for this team but his minutes have got to drop and he should not be our starter anymore. DIALLO SHOULD START FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON!
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I asked someone this:
Can you please help me out? After the last game Coach Self said Traylor was the best player? Is there something he brings to the game that I am not seeing on a score card? Just really curious?
This was the response I received:
Nah. Mari was really good that night
There you have it guys and gals!!! HCBS has brainwashed everyone lol!
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@HighEliteMajor Can’t argue with your list.
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Jamari has been valuable to the program for the past 5 seasons. Unfortunately for him, there are better options this year. To play Jamari Traylor max minutes in my opinion would have a negative impact on recruiting, not to mention on the team itself. Potential recruits are watching everything.
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I am not bashing on Mari but I am not sure how on Gods Green Earth he was the best player last game?
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Excellent analysis HighEliteMajor. I have wondered why Self continues to play less talented players in times where he has more talented players on the bench, and he is going hard at OADS on recruiting front. On top of that he make comments that you have pointed out regarding how Traylor was the best player. It might be a coded message to Traylor but what effect does it have on other players and fans.
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@KansasComet Good point Comet
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@JRyman Totally agreed. HEM’s constant harping on Traylor (a player who legitimately won us games last year) is completely unbecoming of his/her username. It makes it hard to take some of HEM’s other analysis seriously. Wasting time on this negativity especially at this point in the season is a waste of life.
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@betterfireE @JRyman I would have to disagree.
This is different than the MSU game where there was a new thread everyday harping on the same topic over the a same situation.
@HighEliteMajor is simply stating his case again because Traylor proved him right… Again. Top that with Self’s comments on Traylor, he analyzed what Traylor did to be “the best player” KU had that night.
This thread is more about Self’s absurd comment than Traylor being underwhelming again.
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Maybe I am CRAZY but didn’t Wayne score 18pts 6reb and 4 assists? I am curious how Mari gets such high praise? Best player of the game? I am on board with what HEM is saying? Why such HIGH praise for an underwhelming performance? 2pts 6reb and a block for Mari? He was sooooo clutch!
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@betterfireE I did not view this post as negative at all. As a matter of fact I commend HighEliteMajor for his excellent analysis and commentary on a very concerning issue that can have serious implications in the future.
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@HighEliteMajor Yep, thats a good old horsey, now out to pasture you go. Thats what Coach’s comments on Traylor mean to me. Youve done your time, done your hard work, now its time for new legs to come in and rock the chalk.
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I think it is best we DON’T START Cheick for a few more games. Let him see the game for a while on the bench and gather his thoughts before going out there.
And that also shows some respect for Jamari. We might have some less-than-perfect opinions about his play… but he has been around for over 4 years now and has been a soldier to Self and our program. It shows some class to not quickly whack him from the starting lineup. Let it happen but over several games.
That doesn’t mean Cheick shouldn’t get more minutes of PT over Jamari and the rest of our bigs fighting for those minutes. That part should be determined during games based on performance and fouls.
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Starting off a sentence by saying, “I’m not bashing, but”, always ends in bashing.
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@JRyman You are dead right. Dead right. Well i DID watch the game again this aft. Tralor played well, boxed out well, missed a few things like every one else did. Btw my close re-watching of the last 3 games (espn 3 replay) has opened my eyes to poor defense by several KU starters, Perry for one. Both mason and graham are late often fighting thru picks to get their man who drains a three. Bragg… Well he’s a freshman with considerable talent and great upside, but who needs to work on his D.
its getting a bit weird the way Certain posters here keep hammering away on Traylor.
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@Bosthawk This isn’t weird at all. Traylor has been bashed for 3 years. You must not have read kusports before this. Brady was hammered, bashed and dumped on for 2 years. As the old saying goes “the more things change, the more they stay the same”.
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Bill Self has an entire team to think about. He displays a great deal of appreciation and respect for kids who don the jersey for 3 years or more. I’m hoping that Cheick Diallo bears the maturity to wait for his moments, maybe even come back for a second season if he is not a sure thing as a top 4 lottery pick in the June draft. Bill Self has manned up, stuck out his chin in a big way, both for Traylor and Diallo. I look to see them repay his staunch esteem.
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@sfbahawk Interesting… Apparently self playing brady incensed some posters sounds like…
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I think the best explanation is that HCBS was feeding comments to the media that would supplant the minutes that Traylor lost to Diallo. He needs Jamari to stay engaged. He can’t afford to lose him (mentally, emotionally or spiritually) because Jamari knows the system and, as a senior, is less likely to have lapses and is more predictable in critical moments in games. That said, Self knows that Diallo has more talent and is going to need to get more and more minutes.
Self is always coaching… And he knows how to use all the tools at his disposal to get the most out of the team. Don’t take this the wrong way, but the media is a sort of tool for him.
I think he’s savvy, not delusional. Maybe I just choose to see it that way… (but I’ll look at his .800 winning percentage as exhibit A)
