ISU
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@jaybate 1.0 KU by 5 because they got Sadler.
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I did a little Newellish stats. This confirmed my general feeling about how we play when guards our guards are on.
When Tharpe hands out dimes, the team cashes in with wins. He’s averaging 4 assists in KU’s losses and 5.9 in KU’s wins.
Opponents want to make Mason play. His four highest minutes games are all losses. He’s averaging 11.5 points in those games, but his average in wins is 5.5.
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@drgnslayr speaking of deranged-Iowajhawk!
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I apologize to everyone and I pulled my comments. That was something better left for myself.
There is a lot of great people in Iowa, and I’m sorry if my rant flowed into a feeling of generalization. That wasn’t fair!
I’m a fan of @iowajayhawk2005 .
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@drgnslayr I know, but I’m not. Apology accepted.
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I thought our decorum in here was to be able to put names to comments but not people. I broke the law in my comment.
I wouldn’t call myself deranged… but I would call some of my comments deranged, including at least one of them that I deleted above.
We are trying to help @iowajayhawk2005 fit his comments within the boundaries, and he has been trying. If we don’t follow the same initiative back…
I’d like to think we can all maintain a reasonable amount of tolerance. I’ve shown my own weakness in that area in my erased rant… but I’d like to become a better person… someday!
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Does the acquisition of Doc Sadler change the KU game plan?
I know he wasn’t there when this talented line up came but he will provide great insight to Self. While I think Self is an amazing coach and I would want no other coach, I do thing he is predictable at times. I assume he is smart enough to show some new wrinkles in the offense to keep ISU on their toes. I always though Docs only downfall was recruiting, he is a great Xs and Os coach.
I think these freshman will keep it rolling right through Hilton. Top level talent thrives in the big game and loves to prove the “haters” wrong. I think that’s why we looked so awesome against Duke but slumped after, no big media games.
I’m glad Embiid won’t miss the game, that would have been a real shame. I am sure most people aren’t ok with what he didn’t and I by no means condone it but I love the attitude. Just like T-Rob, we need someone to bring an aggressive tone to each game. I never expected it to come from a frosh, it really should have come from Tarik but the foul trouble had kept it from happening.
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@CaptnMo I think probably Hoiberg knows coach pretty well too. We had a fb coach that stuck to his same plan for years, he’s reasoning was, we execute so well, doesn’t matter what the other team does. I’m sure we have a few new wrinkles, but I hope that Doc won’t make a difference.
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@drgnslayr I’ve ranted in here about Iowa’s weather. That state has it in for me, weather-wise. I’d become deranged too if I had to live in that.
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@tundrahok is our Kansas weather better? Sure was this weekend!
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@jaybate 1.0 Kane will be leading the ISU bench Monday, and they will try to use him being out as a rallying cry. Then the game will start, and we will flat blister that Clone defense. It’s high time we hit 100, and maybe this is the game we do it.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I used to live in Minnesota, and whenever I’d drive home to KS to visit I’d go through Iowa and get hit with whatever the worst weather is that you could imagine for that time of year: freezing rain, snow, thunderstorms, wind etc. Either going down or back up.
Kansas weather is certainly variable, but Iowa seemed to reserve its worst for me.
Glad to hear your weekend was nice. It almost got up to freezing here in the great white North. Downright balmy!
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Since we’re ragging on fan-bases, I’ll throw my hat in the ring.
To start things off, I love Iowa. I absolutely love Ames. It’s such an awesome college town, it’s a lot like Lawrence. I’ve had incredible times in Ames and Des Moines. One my very good friends is an ISU alum. Seriously, not being sarcastic one bit.
But as for Iowa State fans…sorry, but they’re stupid. Ok, that’s harsh. You shouldn’t generalize an entire fanbase or large group of people because that’s how bigotry, racism, wars, etc. get started. But the ISU fans I’ve met are simply stupid. They are THE team thats whole season revolves around a handful of games…with the ones against KU making up a large chunk of them. Sorry, that’s pathetic. That’s the mark of a bottom-tier program. Luckily for ISU fans they have a good coach who–I’d imagine–doesn’t bank the entire season on a couple of games.
Clearly, we all saw last year just how pathetic ISU fans can be. Wearing shirts that say “breathe if you hate KU,” throwing trash at our players, and a deranged freaking lunatic attempting to accost our coach! Insane! I’ve talked to several an Iowa State fan that has told me, “beating KU is enough.” To which I replied, “but you guys are a better program than that. That shouldn’t be your mark of success.” “Nope, I’d be content with beating KU.”
Mizery all over again in some regards.
One last thing, and I can lump a lot of regions in this country into this category, but Iowans are snobs about weather…I know, weather! “These Kansas people don’t know what cold is,” they say. Who cares. Cold is cold, hot is hot, snow is snow, ice is ice.
Anyways, go Jayhawks! Would love to see a win in Ames tomorrow night!
PS: Just saw this on a message board from an ISU fan. ISU fans in a nutshell: “This is a must win for ISU. Kane must play if he can. If we lose at home to Kansas tomorrow night the season is over.”
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I appreciate your remarks @drgnslayr and your initial comments are deleted from my memory as well.
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Would Hoiberg be dumb enough to play Kane and take a chance that he causes his ankle injury to become worse and impact the rest of the season or is he smart enough to not play him (even if it is against KU) to make sure nothing happens to affect him come March?
I believe that is what is at stake here and we will see what Hoiberg thinks matters. Kane did turn it bad and even a day of rest can’t shake the fact that he walked out on crutches after the OU game.
Huge game for us. I don’t buy into the “we can lose this game” and stay in the race. We’ve got to take them in the paint and get Niang and Ejam in foul trouble early. Defense needs to show up big time and double/triple guys like they did w/KState.
Rock Chalk!!!
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Horror of all horrors: If Iowa State, with a slim lead and five seconds remaining on the clock, possesses the ball and races toward the bucket, they are going for a dunk. Subsequently, they never beat KU again this season.
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ISU will be calling on Karma to be a killer B.
ISU players may try to goad Embiid into throwing another elbow.
Let’s hope that amid the madness a basketball game breaks out.
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Now all I’m going to do is make up scenarios about what it is that @drgnslayr said. All I have to say on the subject is this - somewhat like Lawrence is a bastion of goodness surrounded by Kansas, Iowa is a bastion of goodness surrounding Ames.
I have been around Iowa State fans for, many, many years and fondly recall being shouted at multiple times as a child, watching Iowa State fans vomit and pee themselves, and listening to a fan base that ENDLESSLY complains and makes excuses. While I have had bad experiences with every fan base (as I’m sure people have with KU) I usually have more positive experiences to hark back upon then negative (even Missery - although I have a sister and brother in law who graduated from there so their friends/family may temper it down when I’m around).
With Iowa State though, outside of the 1 fan I’ve met who I respect, I genuinely have nothing positive to say. They seem to always be trying to prove themselves and continually make fools of themselves on a national stage. I don’t know if it is their announcers who have made their fanbase this way or vice versa but listening to Iowa State radio DJ’s, announcers, or supporters is literally the largest pity party - woe is me attitude I’ve ever heard. I, personally, don’t think that any die hard Iowa State fan has ever truly felt they lost a game. It is ALWAYS the refs fault. I have never met a more annoying fan base in this regard - I can’t even pick a fan base who is in the same stratosphere as Iowa State. It is pathetic.
I could go on and give anecdote after anecdote but it would be a waste of time. The state of Iowa is, without a doubt, the greatest state in the union and sadly we have to claim Lames as part of it. I hope ISU fans act just an inappropriately as they did last year as national embarrassment is the only way they realize they aren’t being “picked on” by other schools - they’re just really that bad.
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@drgnslayr Do I have to delete my I-35 and I-80 quips?
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@jaybate 1.0 Coach Self seems to be thinking outside the box so to speak regarding this team and its insane depth into the bench. I fully expected him to “pick one” and cut the rotation to 7-8 guys like he normally does. But, he hasn’t done that this year. There is a bit about Hoiberg on the Bleacher Report saying he is the hottest coach in Div 1 right now. Sure he has got a good pedigree and all that, has turned ISU around from lowly punching bag to a legit threat in the Big12. But, if Coach Self can get a conference title, possibly a tournament title and a deep run in the NCAA tourney, he should absolutely be considered for Coach of the Year. I mean this is his youngest team since he has been at KU and possibly in his career, and at the moment they seem to be improving every game. Its so much fun and exciting to watch. RCJH!
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@RockChalkinTexas To answer your question, YES, he is that dumb. Maybe dumb isn’t the best way to say it, but he want to beat us so badly it about makes him wee-wee in his panties.
Yes, that’s a much more mature way of stating it.
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@ParisHawk The good news for us - we can do without Embiid (gasp!) better than they can do without Kane. Bring out the gloves.
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First things first, if Kane is out, or even limited, that’s a huge blow to ISU. I watched both the Baylor-ISU game and the OU-ISU game. Kane is an absolute beast. He had 30/8/9/5 (points, rebounds, assists, steals) against Baylor and 23/9/4/1 against OU. Throughout his career he’s been a stat sheet stuffer. At Marshall, he averaged roughly 15/5/5 for his career. The sprain looked like a high ankle sprain on TV. If that’s the case, that’s a three-five week healing time to be 100%. We will see.
As for tonight’s game, it will be interesting.
Hoiberg is an NBA style coach in that he really pushes towards matchups. This is why ISU gave us problems last year, and why Coach Self really has to be careful this year with his rotation.
Assuming Kane doesn’t play (which is my guess), ISU will probably go with a lineup of Ejim, Niang, Hogue, Long and Thomas. Morris will be off the bench and either Dorsey-Walker or Edozie will see spot minutes off the bench. Percy Gibson may see some spot minutes in this one, but I doubt it. Every single one of those guys is between 6-2 and 6-7 except Edozie at 6-8 and Gibson at 6-9.
All of ISU’s guys that play regularly can handle the ball, shoot from the perimeter and run the floor. This means that our 4’s and 5’s will have to defend out away from the basket. Everybody that plays significant minutes for them has made at least 11 3’s this year.
If I were Coach Self, the following players probably would not play tonight due to matchup issues. Tarik Black and Jamari Traylor, because ISU does not use a traditional post player and they will get into foul trouble defending on the perimeter. Conner Frankamp, because ISU loves posting their guards against smaller players. Frank Mason would also see his minutes dwindle a bit tonight for that reason. This could be the night that we see both Andrew White III and Brannen Greene get back into action. Both are midsized players that can defend the perimeter, handle the ball and play in space.
I would envision that we will see a lot more minutes tonight with KU playing four perimeter players around Ellis or Embiid to match up with the perimeter oriented Cyclones.
If they had Kane, this would be more interesting, but without him, I see the Hawks pulling away late for a 8-12 point win.
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Very well said @justanotherfan. I completely agree about Hoiberg and Kane’s numbers speak for them self. I think seeing AWIII at the stretch 4 as we did last year is a real possibility tonight - hadn’t thought of that myself so now i’m going to take your idea, tell everyone I know, and claim it as my own. Thanks.
We’re on the same page with Black but I personally think Traylor has the ability to guard a stretch 4 or 5 and I think we’re going to need his energy in tonight’s game. I’m trying to imagine a Tharpe, Selden, Wiggins, White, Traylor lineup and it makes me giddy to think how fast we would be. No one in the country would be able to keep up!
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@iowajayhawk2005 I think Traylor could handle the duties playing a stretch 4 and I also like his energy. My thing is, if I can only play one big guy at a time, I’d rather that one big guy be either Embiid or Ellis. If I thought we could stay in a more traditional lineup, I’d like the Traylor matchup a little more, but I think ISU may pull us out of that traditional set.
I’d actually be tempted to show a lineup of Tharpe, Selden, Greene, White and Wiggins. That’s a lineup that in some ways is exactly like the one ISU will present, but with more raw talent than ISU can match with.
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@RockChalkinTexas, regarding playing Kane, or not, Hoiberg is in a tough spot and Self knows it. This conference season everyone has to be thinking about playing for splits against the top 4 teams and hope to steal one sweep in order to get at least a share of the title, as I indicated after KU stole one at Norman. KU’s win at Norman was big, because it means Self has his team set up for the one sweep he has to get. KU can almost certainly take OU at home barring unforeseen injuries; that’s the sweep. From the win in Norman onward, unless KU makes a really poor showing at home against one of the top four teams, all Self has to do is amp his teams for the home half of the Saturday-Monday games involving top 4 teams and bide his time hoping for one more sweep on an away game by beating another top four team on a low amp, grind it out performance. Stealing two sweeps among the top four teams nearly guaranties an outright title this year, because of talent distributions and injuries to the likes of Cobbins at OSU.
So: Fred is in a pickle, because Self amped his team for KSU at AFH and so is probably rolling into Hilton without an amping. Self would tolerate a loss to ISU at Hilton, if Fred were determined to amp his team there for the reasons I discussed above.
Fred’s problem is that if he amps his team for a peak performance in order to capitalize on KU’s likely off shooting game, after two hot ones, and does not play Kane, ISU probably doesn’t have enough fire power to win amped, even when KU is not amped and shooting so-so.
Self would love to steal another road win, but putting the spurs to his young team two straight games could lead to a huge emotional let down the next weekend.
Fred knows this.
Fred has decide whether to protect Kane by resting for later, knowing that if ISU loses in Hilton now, his team is going to be playing behind the eight ball the rest of the round robin, or play Kane and try to get the win he needs now to stay out from behind the eight ball.
Since there will four days to rehab Kane’s ankle before ISU’s next game, if ISU’s next game is an easy opponent, then I think Hoiberg plays Kane tonight to try to squeeze out a win at home, then maybe not play Kane next Saturday to give his ankle a big block of time to heal.
I am a pussy about playing guys injured. I wish they never played injured. But Self is not alone in approaching injury as something players play through for the good of the team, if playing through were what was best for the team. The current ethic seems to be: we are not here to protect your injury at the expense of the team’s interest. We will not play you if i would wreck you forever, but we will play you injured if strategy and tactics require it, and if you have the kind of injury that will simply take longer to heal if played on.
A lot has to do with the kind of player it is, the kind of injury it is, and how high that player’s pain threshold his.
For example, Self apparently just told Tyrel Reed and EJ to play through, even though they needed surgery. Both guys seemed to be able to hobble through it. One time he wanted a young Travis to play on the ankle and Trav said he couldn’t. Trav was not chastised. He just was sent to the far end of the bench for the rest of the season. Fine, if we can’t count on him this season, then we can’t count on him. But if we are going to count on him, then he HAS to play no matter what. Poor EJ got caught in the he HAS to play his two seasons. Last season he was wearing quilts and bailing wire and electricians tape and super glue on his knee for most of the season. I don’t see how EJ played at all the first 2/3s of the season, but some guys just can bear enormous pain. When board rats ask why was EJ given the ball at the end of the Michigan game, implying he shouldn’t have been, that was Self making clear EJ was one of the toughest hombres he had ever seen and if he had to lose, he wanted to lose with the toughest kid he ever saw, and if he had to win, he thought it would take the toughest kid he ever saw that jacked 39 on a trick knee to git-her-done. I really believe his choice of EJ in the Michigan game was Self paying his respects to EJ. Board rats can complain all they want, but something happens when players play above and beyond the call of duty regarding injury and sacrifice for extended periods. It builds a bond between a coach and a player that eventually is recognized by the coach. EJ was out in a pain zone and out in a loss of function zone that made it seem impossible for him to guide the team to 30+ wins, but he did and doing so saved Self’s coaching bacon–made Self the winningest coach of the last ten years–made Self seem like a genius. Self knew that all those accomplishments hung on Self couldn’t have happened if one Elijah Johnson had not played through a shoulder injury his sophomore year, a knee injury his junior year and an inadequately rehabbed knee his senior year. Self know EJ was a great talent. He knew EJ could have quit on Self at any time and said, no, my career comes first, not the team and your record. EJ manned up all over Self. EJ played through more than Self could have played through; this happens to most coaches sooner or later. And when it does, the coach, without ever publicly showing it, is in absolute awe of the player’s will and willingness to sacrifice–to walk the talk of the coach about sacrifice above and beyond the coach’s capacity for sacrifice.
EJ was a five star athlete that saw his awesome L&A crucified before he ever got to the money making time of his career. It is one of the unforgivable cruelties of amateurism. It should be stopped. Either injured players should sit, or amateur players should be paid to sacrifice their bodies the way EJ, and Kaun, and so on, did.
Will Fred play Kane?
I suspect he will if Kane can go at all, because ISU needs a win at home over KU in the worst way. I haven’t looked at ISU’s next opponent after KU, but if its next opponent is figured to finish in the bottom half of the conference, Kane gets his chance to give one of those super human performances.
IMHO.
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@jaybate 1.0 Thanks for that. We shall see tonight.
Cyclones have the following 3 games. Not easy ones.
Jan 18 @ TEX 4:00 PM ET
Jan 25 vs KSU 1:45 PM ET
Jan 29 @ #15 KU 9:00 PM ET
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@Lulufulu85, Bleacher Report has to spike clicks to eat. If they were to write about Self being the COY from the beginning of the season, as Self has always deserved every season at KU, clicks would not soar.
Self out coaches all of the coaches every year. He out recruits them. He out strategizes them. He out dresses them. He out humbles them. He out wits them. He out ref manipulates them. His breath probably even smells better than theirs.
Self is a genius at coaching. He presents a problem for media covering him. He outmaneuvers the media, too. They can’t corner him. They can’t seduce him. They can’t get any more access than he already gives them.
So they write about the next new challenger; that’s all this kind of reporting is about. The pro journos are not born yesterday types. They know that as long as Self is in the league he will be the COY and that makes there be nothing to write about. So: they invent challengers for him. Fred is the only guy that has shown any consistent ability to get under Self’s skin competitively and Self is even figuring him out. Every game, Self gets better. If you start out behind him in the first place, you are never going to catch him while he is still coaching.
The guy is a middle aged coach. He has seen it all and done it all, so now all there is to do is create ridiculous challenges for himself. Like building a title contender out of guards that Top Ten teams weren’t even interested in, like building a contender out of a footer from Cameroon that has only played three years of ball and blows smoke up reporters’ cabooses about killing lions and sharks, like not building a team around the greatest prospect since Lebron.
Self is out there.
Self is through the looking glass.
Self is a genius.
And talking about challengers is what you do, when you already know who is really going to be the actual COY every season.
Next.
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@RockChalkinTexas, Thanks for looking up the opponents. I predict Fred will play him tonight, if he can go at all, try to steal a win and sit him against Texas.
Yes, and I will spray some teflon on my face to get prepared for getting the egg off, when Kane is in street clothes.
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@jaybate 1.0 Fred will try to play him. If early going looks bleak for ISU, Kane will limp to the bench, stay there unless a light blinks at the end of their tunnel.
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@jaybate 1.0
Hoiberg has played college and NBA BBall and he has also been a manager in the NBA and as such, he is very aware of the consequences of playing a player that is injured. By all account he is a stand up guy and obviously a very good coach and I really don’t believe he would play Kane unless he is fit to play.
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Speaking of injuries and Self’s ultimate respect for his talented players earning minutes regardless, I wonder about the dinged up Selden prior to Christmas break. Just at the moment when posters began clamoring for him to hit the pine, Wayne seemed to spring back to good wheels. Perhaps another example of Self’s deference and reward to the talented but injured player who brings to practices relentless commitment?
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And, jb, in reference to your analysis that Self has not built this squad’s play around Wiggins, do you think that maybe our wily coach is working a bit of slight of hand on opposing coaches? I foresee some key contests, deep or late into the schedule, when this team actually takes court to swirl around the hub of AW; then backs off for a few games…
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@jaybate 1.0 Twitter said Kane looked good at the shoot around today. Here’s a pic of him showing no pain.
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@REHawk , quite possible. But it seems the team turned a psychological corner, when it quit waiting for Wigs to score and set about playing like an inside out team. Wigs struggled with plug in awhile, but the bigs seemed to start acting more like bulwarks when given permission to try to win inside first. Where you are on the money is that once teams scheme to stop the inside out game, at some point Self can return to ball screening and some Triangle stuff on both wings with Wigs and Selden slicing and dicing. He already returned to some pick and roll, which is a half step that direction.
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@wrwlumpy Yup, it was a sucker play.
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CBS is reporting that Kane will suit up…
Of course how effective he is playing on a weak ankle is the big question. It might be just Psy-ops by ISU to confuse KU. If he plays, I can see the KU guards driving to his left to test the ankle or cause a little pain and agravation.
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My bet is Kane will suit up and sit on the bench, probably with heat on his ankle. Isn’t it about time he flipped from ice to heat? Isn’t it 48 hrs after?
I feel for the guy and wish he would have been healthy to run at full speed. He’s got some serious game and I always like us to play teams at full speed.
Maybe we’ll get a better taste of Kane in AFH… but I’m not holding my breath on him playing tonight. But who knows what his pain tolerance is.
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Kane is able…will play tonight in Ames.
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@globaljaybird wonder how long he will go? Can’t imagine he can cut. Guess we shall see. Much rather he be there so we don’t have to live w/their excuses!
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@drgnslayr When I rehabbed the cuff tear, in 3 months they never once used heat-only ice. And until I figured out how to place the wrap correctly, that friggin ice hurt like someone beating me with a hammer. As you well know, there’s just no adequate way to fully describe the pain of that surgery & recovery. Wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy…well… again, maybe I could think of someone if I tried.
