Bill Self to OKC!
-
Lots of old writing and the only pertinent text in that article is the last sentence:
"Even a so-called better job — I don’t know what job would be better than the one I have right now.” - Bill Self
-
I’m picturing Self singing the “Cups” song to his jaded KU fans…
“You’re gonna miss me when I’m gone…”
-
@FarSideHawk * Sigh. . . I might as well own up to it now.
Pitch Perfect -my favorite movie ever. The Wizard of Oz is a frog-hair behind in 2nd place.
-
@nuleafjhawk haha…I haven’t seen the movie; maybe I should check it out. My nieces sang this song, last time they visited; that’s the first time I heard it.
-
@FarSideHawk Well, when it comes to movies, I’m a little different. That means I like a lot of movies that many other people don’t and I don’t like movies that most other people do like. But, I seriously love Pitch Perfect. I’ve probably seen it 20 times. Maybe more.
-
“It hasn’t really tempted me because I haven’t had that many people talk to me about it. But at some point and time, sure I think it would. It would be great to be able to match wits with the best athletes in the world, but I’m certainly happy where I’m at.”
I don’t really see how the age of the article matters. Sure he’s happy at KU. But he does specificity say it does interest him. That’s all I’m saying.
By the way, I did read the entire article. I was just trying to share a different angle that does relate to the subject of this post.
You guys probably lambasted people who speculated that Williams might leave after he turned down UNC the first time and called KU his home and said he was here to stay.
-
@nuleafjhawk I say that because so far there’s being absolutely zero (that I’ve heard) mention of Bill Self as a possible candidate.
And his overall winning % is actually about 75%. If winning percentage the most important factor in choice of coach, why no mention of the dozen or so active college coaches with a 70+ winning percentage? Probably because coaching philosophy and ‘fit’ with the team are also factors. I don’t see how Bill’s philosophy (which he has thus far refused to deviate from) fits in with a team built around Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. I might worry more about him going to a team like San Antonio.
-
@FarSideHawk I honestly don’t think I’d be happy or sad if Bill left Kansas. I’m just not that emotionally invested anymore. But Kansas Basketball is bigger than any one coach and I have no doubt the coaching position could be filled by any of several candidates who could maintain the program at near current levels.
And to copy and paste from an earlier post:
As to specific names that I think would do well at Kansas-- Mark Few, Steve Alford, Mark Turgeon, Brad Stevens, Gregg Marshall, Larry Krystkowiak, Mike Brey, Billy Donovan, Sean Miller–and there are probably plenty more. Heck why not throw in Tom Izzo? And Rick Pitino even became available during Bill’s tenure also.
-
@FarSideHawk Probably no more than I miss Roy. In fact, I think I even miss Roy more every time I see Bill’s team blow a fast break opportunity, lol.
-
@KUinLA Fair enough. I’m just afraid that we are due for a downturn that we haven’t seen since Larry Brown days. And Self leaving could be that disturbing of the apple cart. I’m hopeful that Self will eventually tweak his philosophy and take us from a very good program to a great program that can consistently win in March as it does In regular season.
Remember we were known as even bigger chokera during Roy Williams era, although I do miss his offense
-
@KUinLA You and I are in the exact same boat. I have absolutely zero concern that Self will leave. If you’re an NBA GM looking for a coach that can win you a title at the highest level, look no further than the last two seasons Self has had as proof of why you would not want Self. In the past two seasons, Self has appeared completely oblivious and unimaginative in terms of strategy. He’s failed to take advantage of either his team’s talent or exploiting the other team’s weakness. People are concerned that Self will replace Popovich when he leaves too. I used to be one myself. Anybody ever watch the Spurs here? Seen some of the plays Pop draws up? They’re absolutely brilliant. They’re like a drug for the basketball-lover’s soul. You see anything like that from Self? We run the same play in every single late game situation. When you think about it, what is the success percentage of the chop play? Probably not good. I mean like less than 10% not good.
But I’m with ya. I myself am not as emotionally invested anymore. Whether or not people want to admit it, I saw a lot of the same sentiments after the loss to WSU. People said they just didn’t care as much as they have in years past. It took me weeks to get over losing to Michigan. When KU lost to VCU, I took a walk for the first time in my life after a sporting event I was so upset. This year? I turned the game off at halftime and watched the Trailer Park Boys. Personally, going to another school that I see as being cutting edge (Ohio State) it just makes me mad about KU. When they call me for handouts now, it’s just sad. Just my thoughts.
-
@MoonwalkMafia though I agree that Self is not an offensive genius, I think it’s a little unfair to imply that he has no offensive imagination. And as far as comparison to Popovich? He has three hall of famers playing together for over a decade. You can get a lot creative in that situation compared to having college freshmen and sophomores
-
@FarSideHawk I’m not talking about his personnel though. Just the plays that he draws up are genius. And he seems to come up with them on the spot rather than going to the same one play over and over again.
-
@MoonwalkMafia I understand, but it’s easy to put new plays in when you have such a veteran and high talent level personnel on the team. Our freshmen have hard time remembering the simple plays and being in the right place. Still, not saying that Self is better than Pop but that what you can do offensively is very dependent on who you have.
-
Everybody gets kicked in here now and then. I’d be happy to show you some of my old KUBucket’s bruises…
Sometimes it is worth taking a punch because more people respond.
I still know quite a few people that haven’t forgiven Roy for going home. Roy is home, we just had the good fortune of being able to rent him for a while. Timing is everything, and at the time Roy was the man for the job.
Someday Bill will leave and chances are people will be upset. The longer coaches stay it’s like a long marriage. Over the years people tend to develop both anger and joy in their relationships, making them very confused. But the common thread is all the attention from years of drama. And with attention comes magnetism. When someone departs a magnetic relationship… well… you know…
-
@FarSideHawk Thanx for the nice pix/video of Anna Kendrick. Nuthin wrong with eye candy…!
-
@MoonwalkMafia Have we forgotten the chalkboard plays, the timeout plays, the out-of-bounds plays. Could it be that the bunch of kids in uniform simply are not producing to the level of past KU rosters? And who does this “producing” of the statistics? Because I saw many statistical categories signifying lackluster play in the last 2 seasons. And you haven’t touched on team leadership. Self called Tharpe a “really good player” last week, but one that “had. to. go. from a leadership standpoint, both on and off the court. Then he repeated ‘had to go’”. He said Mason should have been “this good” last year, but some of why he didn’t was because of Tharpe.
I always like how people point to KY as “getting it done” with frosh and sophs, but then that is Cal’s system…have to admit it is like no other to have that many top15 kids, even with a slow-learner or two, there’s 6 others to keep putting up stats.
Its getting old that the bragging-rights bunch cant thump their chest because “your KU got beat by WichitaState!!!” Tired of hearing it from these people way, way, way more than I am from hearing any comments by WichitaState people. After all, their team was absolutely the better team in that game. That’s just basketball. Man, look at the tape and see all the things KU did/didn’t do that caused the loss. Now go look at the UNI tape and see different things that caused that loss. VCU tape holds different analytical truths.
Everytime someone mentions the weave, it seems they are only bringing it up in a neg context & they don’t understand what the attack options are out of it. I’m not defending the weave, as there’s many good offenses out there, but I don’t see anybody making any point about what the weave is trying to do or looking to exploit. So, people need to understand the options out of a play design, and they frankly also need to realize that a coach is going to run his stuff.
Go see tape of Duke getting Mercerized last year–why did that royalty program get bounced like that? Stay focused, this year’s Duke result has little to do with last year. Tape doesn’t lie. Didn’t Duke have #2 overall NBA pick Jabari Parker last year? And a 1st round exit? Wasn’t that Coach K’s 2nd first round exit in 5 years?
Now consider this year’s Duke. Now appreciate the absolute FACT that one OAD isn’t necessarily equal to another OAD. Okafor and Jones were legit. Notice they had chemistry together–how rare is that, to have 2 top10 kids show up at your door with that? And how did Okafor and Jones do all year, compared to almost any 2 other top 20 frosh? Cliff and Oubre were both pretty spotty, with Oubre figuring it out, while Cliff ended up benched. Julius Randle was a legit OAD, Embiid became one. Wiggins was one. The Harrison Twins definitely were NOT OADs. You don’t know who is going to pan out as a legit OAD, and who will not. Calipari doesn’t know, Self doesn’t know, Roy doesn’t know, and Izzo cant get a OAD. Scot Drew doesn’t know what to do with an OAD, and maybe Barnes didn’t either, although he did OK with Durant.
My point about Duke is they got a real nice break by having 2 OADs actually contribute majorly for them. Great luck. But you cannot put that in a magic recruiting-potion bottle. But you also cannot draw too many conclusions from the Duke win, as Wisc was a legit team, who did not play to their usual aggressiveness, and couldn’t extend their 8pt lead over Duke with 3-4min left, and we know Coach K’s well-known ability to get the refs on his side. It came down to 2 or 3 plays, just as the NDame/KY game did. Anybody’s game with 60sec to go. As was the KU-Memphis game. As was the KU-Mich game. As was the KU-Iowa state BigXII Tourney champ game (ku blows 17pt lead), which if KU won, very likely would have been in another Region for the BigDance, as the projections were prior to that game.
Regarding bringing up THEOhioSt on a basketball thread and “cutting edge”…I’m not here to talk about their academic programs, I’m sure they’re great. But last time I checked, Self has beat Thad Matta 3 times straight, and ended 2 of Ohio State’s Tourney runs the last 5 years. Just like Self has ended 3 of UNC’s Tourney runs in the last 7 years. So I’m sure people at THEOhioState and at UNC really don’t like KU.
-
Maybe Donovan takes the OKC job. Then that opens up the Florida job. Maybe Cindy Self is finally tired of KS winters and Midwest weather, and wants to see palm trees…(oops, wait…she is also from Oklahoma, a Midwestern girl) Or maybe Bill wants to earn more $ than the $52mil 10-yr deal Zenger inked him to last year? Hmm, is that possible? Will an NBA team, or Florida pay him more than that $5mil/year?
Hmm, enquiring minds here seem to want to know: “Gosh, man, just what’s it gonna take to get Bill outta town? Why cant we just make him go away?! He can go ‘weave’ somewhere else…”
lol.
-
I don’t think it is fair to use Self overall winning % as representative of what he is doing now or in the recent past. You forget that he started at Oral Robers, a school that had not had a winning record in years and turned it into a winner, same thing with Tulsa which he took to the Elite 8. Roy Williams had the fortune of starting at KU who was coming back from winning a national title and he did not have to build a winning team from perennial loser and then he moved to UNC, another college basketball powerhouse.
Most employers nowadays will ask only what is your experience for the last 10 years and consider anything before that irrelevant. Look at Self’s record at KU over the last 12 years and tell me how many coaches you can find with a comparable record? To be fair look at the record of all coaches over the last 10 years, a reasonable time to evaluate, and tell me how many have a better record than Self and how many even break the 80% winning number?
-
@ralster Lol. Oh, well I was talking about their academic programs… And their university as a whole. Not sports. Sorry.
And I’m not saying I want Self gone, I’m saying there are better pro coaching candidates out there than Bill Self.
-
Even Ohioans roll their eyes every time they hear about “THE” Ohio State and how good they think they are…
-
@MoonwalkMafia Definitely agree that there are better NBA-type coaches out there than Bill Self…I don’t think his style will mesh with a certain % of NBA star players. But then, maybe his job would be easier, as he is dealing with pro players who do not want to lose their contracts…so they are motivated to improve their game. Popovich got guys to buy into his system.
One thing we know is that Self has that charisma to get guys to listen, he has his ways. The only thing is his system cannot be rushed into installation…it just takes an agonizing amount of reps (for players and fans) to see it become efficient. And it takes many players time to become physically and mentally tough. And once the whole thing becomes efficient, he starts thumping opponents with it–we all want to see the return of the 20+pt blowouts so the Witherspoonies and Tyler Selfs and Christian Garretts of the roster can get some garbage minutes…
-
Off on a tangent, but speaking of OhioState, they have a legit/awesome football coach in Urban Meyer. I’ll always tip my hat to that kind of true excellence…(as opposed to that middling level accomplishments by that fossil in Manhattan, KS…never a 5star recruit, nor a sniff of a Nat’l Championship in 30yrs of coaching, and counting. Cornfed no-star/1-star/2-star kids will only get you so far, as the mauling that ‘vaunted & unheralded’ O-line took in their Bowl loss proved again! Oh, but you can beat the Jayhawks, like that’s any accomplishment.)
-
Off your tangent…how many game do you thin Meyer wins with Snyder players and Snyder with Meyer players? The difference in talent is huge and I mean HUGE! You have got to give credit to the old man in Manhattan that keeps winning with what he has.
-
@JayHawkFanToo I give credit to Snyder for being a strict, regimented fundamentalist who drills his players into a high degree of reliability.
2 points:
1)Cannot mix Snyder and Meyer players, as getting those recruits is very much a part of who/what a head coach is. Snyder used to dream of getting Meyer-like recruits, but probably gave up such dreams years ago. Weber at Illinois was not the same as Self at Illinois, and he had 10years there instead of 3-4yrs like Self did. Weber is a fundamentalist-type coach, but not a recruiter. If you put Snyder anywhere, he is still Snyder, and will be sawing wood with no-star/1-star/2-star nobodies, hoping to stumble upon a late-bloomer like Jordy Nelson. Where is Colin Klein now? (Canada) Wonder boy got passed on by 32 NFL teams. Is he really worse than Tebow? (answer: no, Tebow’s hype was way worse). Like Turner Gill, Tebow’s faith alone wont getcha any W’s on the gridiron.
- Again, Snyder’s accomplishments are exactly what Im calling into question: We are blasting Self for barely doing better than winning the BigXII, and want more on the national stage that is March Madness. So why in the world wouldn’t we hold TheExcellentKingSnyder to the same standard? Win the BigXII every year and win a National Championship. OOPS, but he cant even win the BigXII every year, and hasn’t ever been to a NC. By what yardstick are YOU or anybody else measuring greatness? By some stupid 2nd-tier logic like DivisionII basketball? (Example: Div2 coach wins with solid fundamental type play, but since he cannot get Top30 players, we still revere him, pay homage, and name a stadium for him?)
Sad fact is most SEC teams would clean purple’s clock. OOPS, purple pussies had a golden chance to host then-5th-ranked Auburn in Manhattan, and the worst looking team in their own stadium was those KeystoneKops-Kats. Kicker Jake Cantele-which-way-wind-blowing, while Auburn connects on its FGs, and 7star WR Lockett drops the winning TD. Couldn’t beat an SEC team at home, even. Why wasn’t the KSU crowd chanting F-Auburn? Then the corn-fed O-line gets force-fed boots and dirt and bigboy spit right down their throats in their Bowl game. That’s nothing new. KState actually winning a bowl game is another cause for purple orgy, now that I think about it. He can only beat OU or TX if they are having a “down” year. Clearly he’s NOT a big boy coach or program, NEVER has been, and NEVER will be. Looming right around the corner is yet another Princely-decline for their program. Half-empty Snyder Memorial Stadium will happen soon.
And I would laugh my azz off if a “high school coach from TX” (Beaty) can beat Snyder. I’d make a bumper sticker for my 4x4 truck: TX highschool coach > KingSnyder.
Nobody outside of KS, & only about half of Kansans cares about KState. Bruce Weber only cared about KState’s money. And other than Harry S. Truman, I could care less about someone from MISSOURI (Snyder), especially some middling/plateaued football coach. Will root for KU, OU, OkState, Texas, TxTech, TCU, Art Briles/Baylor over rooting for KSU. May root for IowaState, even, over KState.
Mostly whats turned me against KSU is their fans. They put the meaning behind the phrase KStupid, as they proved on national TV time and time again…they named their stadium after him because they got nothing else. Nuthin!
One must praise guys like Lon Kruger, Frank Martin, Michael Beasley, Bill Walker, Marcus Foster, et al, et al, et al…for getting out of now-Manlesshattan.
-
Now, tell my how you REALLY feel about KSU…
P.S. I take it that you believe Snyder is not Hall of Fame worthy?
-
@JayHawkFanToo I’m not sure you’ve met many Ohioans if you believe that, because Buckeye fans make up probably 90% of the state and even those who aren’t “fans” still found themselves rooting for the Buckeyes very passionately in last year’s playoff. There just isn’t any competition in the state, and Ohio State has certainly set itself apart in a lot of ways from other universities in Ohio, as well as surrounding states…and they did just win the national championship…convincingly, so I don’t know if it’s one of those “they think they’re so great” kind of situations.
-
I’m not sure you’ve met many Ohioans…
But I have,…I did my undergraduate work in Ohio, not THE Ohio State, but at another of the many excellent schools in the state. Yes, they are king in football but there are other good basketball programs in the state, Cincinnati. Xavier, Dayton, Ohio come to mind. This last season Dayton advanced as far as OSU and the year before Dayton Eliminated OSU on its way to the elite 8. BTW, the previous two years before that, OSU was eliminated by Wichita State and Kansas.
P.S. I am rolling my eyes as I type…
-
I’m with Moonwalk. I lived in NE Ohio for several years and never met a single person who didn’t root for the Buckeyes in FB and BB. There is also a very loyal local following for LESSER local teams they followed (Cinci, X, Kent State, YSU, Toledo, etc,), but there is no significant in-state competition/rivalry with OSU, at all. The regional following is kind of like minor league baseball, but the entire state shares a hatred for Michigan, and that’s it. You might find a few transplants that don’t like OSU, but for a state that size, the population is overwhelmingly in love with one school.
Most Ohioans would prefer the OSU BB team be better, of course, so they’re supportive of the ugly sisters like Cinci and Dayton when they are successful.
-
I think you are missing my point. I did not say that Ohioans do not root for OSU, in fact in my post I mentioned that football is king, but also, the farther west you go, the less they like the arrogant attitude of their grads and their insistence that the school be called “THE” Ohio State. Not that different than Kansas where most people are big fans of the basketball program, but once you get past Topeka they think KU people are arrogant and hence the term Snob Hill…perhaps you heard it?
-
Cannot mix Snyder and Meyer players, as getting those recruits is very much a part of who/what a head coach is. Snyder used to dream of getting Meyer-like recruits, but probably gave up such dreams years ago.
Sell a 5 star footballer on a school with beautiful weather year round (UF), years of great tradition (both OSU and UF), huge athletic budgets (again both), rabid fans (both), major recruiting hotbeds in-state (both), young coach that isn’t at retirements doorstep (Meyer at both), school/stadium that isn’t located next to rodeo grounds (neither), coeds (both).
It appears Urban would have a really hard time convincing an 18 yr old star to commit to either UF or OSU… Come on man, give the old man some credit for posting winning seasons at a place that’s only tradition is his and it’s in a horrible location.
-
@Kip_McSmithers Can I assume you weren’t impressed by coaches Doug Weaver and Stan Parrish?
