Let's talk Summer Korea World Games- B. Greene Surgery Impact
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@BeddieKU23 To me the worst part about all of this is B. Greene’s surgery. I am excited about the World Games but this 5 month layoff for Greene seems like a huge loss. That means he may not be back on the court until September which is just 2 months before the season starts. I don’t know how he is going to knock that much rust off as a shooter and get in shape. Greene in my mind was going to take that huge sophomore to junior season leap where he became more than a one dimensional player. That may all be jeopardized now. Self says that a red shirt is not going to happen but I wouldn’t count it out if we sign a big time guard. If Greene does not improve much or at all over the summer it may be best for him to play two more years at full strength after sitting for a year. Obviously this is all total speculation but I am really bummed by this news.
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This is from USA official WUG site.
Each athlete must meet the following specific criteria in order to be eligible.
United States Citizen and able to obtain a US Passport.
Born between January 1, 1987 and December 31, 1997. For basketball, the athlete must be born after January 1, 1990 and before December 31, 1997.
Have taken at least one 3-credit course towards a degree or diploma within the last year before the GAMES. Incoming freshman and transfers are usually eligible.
Sign the Comprehensive Acceptance of Team USA Agreements form.
Sign the Team USA Honor Code and Code of Conduct form.
Sign the Team USA Authorizations, Waiver and Release Form.
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@joeloveshawks You are right, but a kid who is healthy at the start of the season won’t red-shirt. The summer practice and games will be huge for development and team cohesion. Too bad Greene and Svi are going to miss out. I wonder if Svi can practice? Diallo and Maker couldn’t play either. The games should really help to incorporate Bragg and get him up to speed.
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Well, looks from the dates that EJ or Releford could play, & most universities offer 4week mini courses in June…I’d take EJ, TT, or TRob in a g-d–n heartbeat, as that was the heart & soul of a Final4 run… But, that ship may have sailed.
Honestly, with ALL the returning experience, why cant we just let them play??
I think its insulting to guys like Hunter, Landon, Jamari, & Perry to suggest we need a 5th big, and an inexperienced frosh thrown into that accomplishes WHAT exactly? And I’m talking for this WUGames trip only, not Div1 or NCAA tourney play.
Svi will absolutely fill in for Greene this fall, Svi has handles, a 3gun, lateral quickness, and D ability…a very gifted 5star kid, who VERY likely will prove himself to be a 2AD (!!)
Corey Henderson, 6’2 3star guard from Texas, is transferring away from WichitaState after his frosh season…
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@dylans Good point about Bragg. That was part of the reason UK looked so good out of the gate with freshman. They had been playing real games against real competition for longer than anyone else when the season started.
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Oh ya, Bragg…so he’d be our 5th big on the trip, a McdAA. I asked Self personally about him this weekend, and Self called him a stretch-4. Kid is 6’9, 225. One of those headband-athletes.
Agree with idea to put Perry at the 3, & go win the summer world war!
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Can Cliff even play in these WUGames?
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Speaking of EJ, TT, and TRob, they all were tweeting stuff during KU’s tourney run. TT saying how he’ll always dislike uni, vcu. EJ tweeted about “my 'Hawks advancin”, and TRob with his usual, laid-back, “f.o.e.” stuff. At times he tweets spiritual stuff as well.
I’ll always be rooting for these kids!
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The problem isn’t letting them play. The problem is at this point we might not have enough guys to go with that we can expect to win this tournament or even be really competitive. If we don’t sign Brown or Ingram, your talking about your starting SF and backup not being able to play. 2 guys who just so happen to be known for shooting, and 2 guys who we are counting on to become much more part of the rotation.
If we want to rely on our walkon’s that’s great, we can take the 5th place trophy now.
We need a 5th big, Self said it last night they need a “anchor in the middle”. Translation we need Diallo and he could help us with that. Issue is he can’t play in the games because he’s from Mali.
If we don’t get Diallo, then Thorne is next up and he would be eligible. A 4th year Center with developing game would help us.
Henderson would have to sit a year and wouldn’t be eligible to play.
Svi’s team is not playing so all he can do is travel and practice.
Below is the Groupings.
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Not if he is drafted. Would be against the collective bargaining agreement.
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Why couldn’t Cliff play if he’s drafted? You can bring in any ex-player born after 1990 and before 1997 if he has taken at least one 3 hour course. I assume a summer course will work.
LeBron never set foot on campus, maybe he wants to take a course and lie about his age?!?
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@dylans Draft doesn’t take place until June 25th and since he probably won’t go first round, that moves him to June 26th or later. Additional problem is they play in South Korea July 3-14 and you would have to factor in travel… Too late…
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So he could play, but it would be a logistical nightmare. And probably detrimental to Cliff. Besides I’d rather have current KU players gelling than have any additions. Even if that means going 0-fer. I want what’s best for KU in '15-'16. I really don’t care about the outcome of the games as much as the practice and experience for the team.
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@BeddieKU23 Brannen is having hip surgery!?!? Omg. Well now we know why his trey gun trailed off after mid season. Wonder if he would be eligible for a medical red shirt if he isnt “better” by the start of the season?
Sounds like we will absolutely need Perry at the 3 during the World Games. Thorne would be eligible for us. Hope we get both guys and Ingram or Brown.
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@Lulufulu Bill blamed his shooting slump on his concussion, but I’ve got to think the bone spurs in his hip didn’t help.
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@ralster I agree. Svi is going to be a stud. Sux he cant contribute to the World Games for us.
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@ralster How are you able to get that close with the Coach? That is way cool. Excited about Bragg now too!
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@dylans Uhhh yeah. Kinda need your hips to jump into a 3 point shot right? lol
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Yes he’s having hip surgery.
He would be eligible for a red-shirt but Self clearly said they wouldn’t go down that road as he should be plenty healthy for the season. Up to 5 months, I bet its closer to 4 with the way athletes tend to heal.
What’s impactful is that Self seemed very high on him being a big contributor but if’s he’s unable to do anything basketball related it’s going to be 2-3 months afterword’s just to get him back up to speed.
Clearly Svi has the inside track to start now, but if Brown or Ingram come knocking now it could be interesting.
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Couple of reflections here. Hip spurs go a long way to explain Brannen’s moving in concrete boots, as well as late season instinctive hesitation to race downcourt to try to block an opponent’s runaway dunk. Newman or Brown could seal a marvelous opportunity to acquire some worldwide attention by signing on with KU prior to these WUGs. Sadly, the WUGs are no advantageous draw for Diallo’s recruitment. Carlton Bragg has placed himself in a prime hoops setting. The 2015-16 door has just opened wider for Svi. Interesting that Self appears not to be considering the offer of a red shirt to Greene. Devaluation of Fool’s Gold?
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@BeddieKU23 Yeah, very true. Those guys heal up very quick. Rush came back from his ACL after 6 months! Crazy.
Our current roster is Mason, Devonte, Selden, Perry, Bragg, Landen, Jamari, Mickelson plus the walk ons. Am I missing anyone? Those first 8 guys are good to be sure. But to win or place in the top 3 for the World Games, we are gonna need more help than that. Why wouldnt Coach Self do everything he can to bring in ex players? Is he trying to make this like an NBA combine or something?
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Cliff is going to be drafted, and he will be sent to Summer League play after that. There’s no chance he’s playing.
I saw somewhere else, EJ, Kevin Young, & Selby maybe eligible. I guess that would be worst case scenario if we really needed fillers.
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Without some key player additions, Kansas in for a thrashing in the WUGs. The Cliff collapse and departure coupled with Kelly’s leaving has left a chasm in our current Jayhawk potential (a POTENTIAL that flailed hopelessly vs. WSU). Best thing we might glean from WUGs is extended summer practice time. Maybe Zimmerman will sign on to become an immediate star?
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I hope everyone can sense an excuse when they see one here. It’s always the same from Self. After the season, guys had these multitudes of injuries that impliedly affected their performance.
It is ridiculous to even give this stuff any credence at all.
I’d bet quite a bit of money that Greene hit bucket loads of threes in practice. If he was injured and his hip or supposed slight concussion caused him to be affected, he wouldn’t have played. He just isn’t that good otherwise. If he missed a bunch of shots in practice, they would have reacted to that.
Don’t get sucked into allowing this disinformation to be molded into an excuse.
Seeing Self’s comments from last night really just make me angry. This team began the season as a Final Four team. This team was 21-4.
But that all changed, didn’t it? We ended 6-5 and played embarrassingly bad against WSU. As Landen Lucas said, WSU just wanted it more.
I’m not sure there is any supposed injury that affects “want to.” Though maybe a media member could ask Self. I’m sure he’d speculate on that.
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What I just posted above is basically the pool of former players who we could reasonably expect to help. I left out Tharpe because nobody wants that back, Wesley could be but he’s been focused on design.
We clearly need more than 8 scholarship players to go with. The question I now have is do we go all in to get Brown & Ingram and still get Thorne as well as Diallo to ensure we have at least 10 scholarship players to go over with. We all want to win this tournament but I’m very unsure about the quality of teams that will be playing and we have some glaring holes due to injury/eligibility.
It does bring more excitement that Bragg will essentially be ahead of the curve than some freshman. Wouldn’t that be a great selling point for the other OAD’s still left. Hey come to KU, go oversea’s represent team USA and practice and play x amount of games before the fall. If I was a HS Senior I’d be signing up ASAP.
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@BeddieKU23 Good I don’t want Cliff anywhere near the team. He will in no way shape or form help KU win a national championship next year. I wish him the best in the league.
Why loss games? Go get NBA hawks to fill the roster. I’ll tell you why, these games don’t matter. No one cares about the outcome. The winner doesn’t even care. It’s all about experience and getting our guys better for next year. Getting our guys extra practice and playing time is all that matters. They just need to go to the games and play hard. The outcome of the games isn’t that important.
So with games that no one will watch or care about (besides us KU fans) why waste time on players who won’t be here next season?
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I think your failing to understand that no NBA players are allowed to play under the bargaining agreement the players have with the league.
Any KU player on a NBA roster is not eligible. They can’t go enroll in basketweaving 101 with a NBA contract and go overseas with us. Otherwise Self could pick and choose as he pleased.
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@dylans I care. Those are our Jayhawks which were chosen to represent the USA. If we finish 9th, as have a couple of other “USA” teams in recent years, then it goes down as FAILURE!
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The one defense for Self I have is that he’s not going to come out and blast the team negatively at the Banquet. He made some jabs but they were all in joke format.
You are right, we shouldn’t believe much because it was a PR move to keep everyone thinking positive and closing the season on a good note, recognizing players for hard work over the season.
Every team in the nation had injuries and they were not talked about. Whatever it is that caused the late season collapse is on him, and he knows it. What he does to correct it remains to be seen.
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You are correct I though NBA players could play. Just D- League guys like Travis, Tyshawn, or international guys like Kevin Young can play.
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@REHawk said:
@dylans I care. Those are our Jayhawks which were chosen to represent the USA. If we finish 9th, as have a couple of other “USA” teams in recent years, then it goes down as FAILURE!
You and I are in the group of KU fans I mentioned who care. The games do not count though is my point. The usuall Bill Self win at all costs is not a good way to go about this tournament. This is PRE-SEASON ball and the games count less than a local pickup game. The practice is important. The team chemistry building is important.
If KU takes 9th place, but learns how to play as a team and plays up to their potiental the following season(regardless of a National Title or not) then the games where a resounding success. If KU takes 9th and makes no improvement then this was a horrible waste of time and money. If KU wins the tournament and doesn’t improve (not likely) it is also a waste of time 'cause these guys are going to burn out playing such a long season.
These games are a chance for the team to come together and for the freshman (hopefully freshmen) to catch up. Winning is nice, but not important at this tournament depending on how you win or loose. A bunch of close losses at the buzzer would be bad too. A bunch of blowout losses would be bad for confidence.
This is Bill’s chance to tinker with the line-ups and give guys minutes that may not get minutes when the games count. Think about how much better Svi could’ve been last year if given the same opportunity.
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The way I understand this…
In previous years we took players from various schools. This is the first time we are trying to have one school represent America.
However, this year, since we will need to pickup a few extra players, and the pool of quality ex-players from Kansas won’t be available, then Self will look to land a few players from other schools.
I could see us landing Frank Kaminsky… for one! If his NBA team will let him go.
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@ralster Thanks for the tweet updates. I’m not surprised about TRob and spirituality given all of his loved ones are gone, only his baby sister. We all need loved ones around for support from daily grinds of life, and perhaps he found solace in God. Hope he has good people around him. He’s got it tough compared to most players.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
The one defense for Self I have is that he’s not going to come out and blast the team negatively at the Banquet. He made some jabs but they were all in joke format.
You are right, we shouldn’t believe much because it was a PR move to keep everyone thinking positive and closing the season on a good note, recognizing players for hard work over the season.
Every team in the nation had injuries and they were not talked about. Whatever it is that caused the late season collapse is on him, and he knows it. What he does to correct it remains to be seen.
This is a perfect way to explain it.
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Does Self realize 14 hour difference between Lawrence and Korea? It is Midnight there vs. 10am Central. Europe is a bit easier to adjust, but when the day/night flips, it will take a few days even for healthy boys to adjust. They will be up ready to go at 4am in Korea.
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So players with a NBA contract aren’t eligible?
It has to be d-league players?
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@drgnslayr This is from the Brannen Greene hip article in KUSports.com today
Summer exhibitions: Self revealed that KU’s World University Games team would play a pair of exhibition contests against the Canadian National Team this summer in Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri. It would be the week before the Jayhawks head to South Korea for the Games, which run July 3-14.
“Just because Allen Fieldhouse is not air-conditioned,” Self said of playing in KC. “It’d be hard to play a summertime game in Allen if you are able to put some people in there. It’d probably be pretty miserable. We plan on doing that the week leading up to the tour. Nothing is finalized.”
KU is allowed 12 players on its World Games roster. Svi Mykhailiuk (Ukraine) cannot play for the KU/U.S. team. If Self needs to fill out the roster, he cannot add any former KU players now in the NBA because their participation is against the NBA collective-bargaining agreement.
“It looks like all our ex-players in a development-league-type situation are too old,” Self said. “A Tyshawn (Taylor), Elijah (Johnson), Travis (Releford), they are all too old. They all turn 25 before Jan. 1. You can’t turn 25 before Jan. 1. I could possibly go try to get a guy from another school, somebody fighting to try to find his way just to fill a spot. We’re going to wait and see how many guys we have, who we sign. If we get another international player, he can’t go. Numbers may be such we may need to get a guy or two.”
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@REHawk Totally agree, here’s the mysterious explanation of Greene’s immobility that we were all ready to chalk up to plantar clumsiness. It’s a relief to know he can still grow his game speed. Downer to know he’ll miss the entire summer.
Now we just need an explanation for Selden’s baffling lack of game.
And in the meantime, we need to sign another perimeter stud player.
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“he cannot add any former KU players now in the NBA because their participation is against the NBA collective-bargaining agreement.”
What about players just ready to come into the league? Is there a chance they could play if they haven’t dribbled a NBA ball yet?
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@drgnslayr said:
What about players just ready to come into the league? Is there a chance they could play if they haven’t dribbled a NBA ball yet?
How is that possible? Either they sign a contract or they don’t.
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If they do, the collective bargaining agreement rules.
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If they don’t, their agent isn’t going to let them go to Korea to get injured - plus the team with rights is going to say “I own you”.
No chance.
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@BeddieKU23 Ahhh! I totally want Kevin Young to come play for us!!!
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@HighEliteMajor Man, I can sense your frustration here. I agree that KU fell quite a bit short of their potential this season. But, if Brannen is getting a surgical procedure done, why would he even agree to it unless he needed it? I mean we saw the same relative 3 point % drop off with Tyrel Reed when he had bone spurs in his foot. Its all basic mechanics right? I mean there is a bone spur anywhere, in any major area, hip, foot, knee, whatever, its going to affect performance due to the pain involved. Sure, Brannen probly made tons of threes in practice but thats not the same as game time, getting fouled on shots, hard fouls with no calls. Its different.
One last thing. Every one of our guys returning this year will be mostly upperclassmen now. They are going to be better when November rolls around again. I would bet on them breaking the 30 win mark and making it further into the tourney this time. Absolutely minimal chance they get bounced in the second game again for the third straight time.
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I know I am in the minority on this, but I don’t care if we win any games in the World Games. I like the early start we get, love the game time minutes of experience we’ll rack up. Beyond that, everyone stay healthy.
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@KUSTEVE I kinda agree with you. I would like us to be competitive at the games and win some. That would be nice. Is it a must win situation for us? Im not sure. Would it affect recruiting in years to come if they bomb? I dunno. Will it help the team to have extra time to practice and build chemistry before the season starts? Absolutely.
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@Lulufulu BG did say his legs weren’t right at the end of season.
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I want to win. Didn’t Cliff and oubre both wear boots from ankle sprains last summer? Injuries happen. They will have late summer off too. I’m really hoping we sign Ingram and diallo. Do you think diallo and Svi can practice w/us? If they are not playing, could they come along as managers? I want to show up well there!
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I believe that for the last games Northern Iowa was selected to represent the US and they ended up 9th, so this is not the first time a school rather than a all-star/combined team is representing the US.
Also, if I understand correctly, the rules call for “incoming freshman and transfers are usually eligible” so it would seem that Bragg and Diallo*** (if he signs with KU) would be eligible as would Thorne, provided they enroll for the summer which most players do so they can avail themselves of the facilities.
Last, maybe the NBA agreement does not allow players to play in the University games, but until Oubre actually signs with a NBA team he is free to do what he wants and he would be eligible; obviously the team that picks him would not be happy (too much risk) and there is always the chance they have an agreement that as condition to pick him he cannot play in the games; I see this as a real possibility, particularly if he is a lottery pick.
*** Correction- Diallo is not eligible to play for the US.
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Diallo is from Mali. NBA Summer Leagues will go down same time as WUG
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@JayHawkFanToo you have to be born in the usa
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@Crimsonorblue22 Do you have to like Springsteen?
