It's Venting Time
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@Blown oubre , Mason 2 early, oubre no offensive, Lucas couldn’t score, BG worthless, Perry took an elbow to nose, had to take him out-locker room. They ripped balls away. Wessel had career day.
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Biggest frustration:
Players are not developing enough. Our bigs, Wayne, Greene (although he’s much better this year).
I will be very interested to see who improves the most next year. My guess is it will be between Graham and Greene.
When you have poor ball skills, people can scout you and go hard at your tendencies. I think that’s what happened today with players like Oubre, Traylor, Ellis, Lucas. The ONLY reason we were in the game today was because of our guard play.
Not sure what to say about Wayne Selden. I just hope Graham, Greene and Svi make sure to beat on him in practice. I’d rather he not see the floor than give us the usual reasons for benching him.
EDIT: We would never say that Frank Mason didn’t develop. It makes you wonder if it’s an issue with the players themselves rather than the coaching.
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@betterfireE Dg probably has the best jump shot
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Think oubre will leave on that?
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I doubt anyone will transfer voluntarily with the chance to play internationally this summer.
BUT… It’s bizarre, as a KU fan, once again to sit back and wonder who will be back next year considering we have one walk-on player graduating. It’s also a bit bizarre that I’m not crushed we lost today. I’m sure the two things are related.
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@DanR seriously I thought w/Embiid we would go far, I knew he wasn’t coming back. I expected and planned to go far. This team, just not that tough or talented. No consistency. Cliff was a bust, but ended up more of a bust w/whatever happened. To much crap and no heart.
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@Crimsonorblue22 " Post guy!!! " Did or Do we have one ???
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2 things that really frustrated me this year? nu 1 NO inside presence offensively, w had no inside threat at the 5 spot and unless we get a quality big man its going to be a repeat next year, Landen just have to develop, the ball is in his court, he is very weak needs to get a lot stronger holding onto the ball develop his inside game, coach self better take full advantage this summer when he has access to practice time and the games he will be playing to develop these players and work them over nu 2. I have been watching KU hoops for over 50 yrs an di have never seen a team like this that just shows NO FIRE, NO EMOTION, NO LEADERSHIP, NO WANT TO
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what the hell happened/ anyways its all about desire, want to, they had NO ONE would would get down their butts when they wasn’t working so many times it was like these guys were just going thru the motions almost zombie like during games just NO FIRE in their gut very discourgaging we have to get that fixed. we need a take charge guy instead of the guys looking at everyone else, pretty sad when its the coach on the sideline that seems to be involved and or into the game that’s the 2 most unsettling things for me
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Here is what I think about the NCAA pulling seeding strings to get this match-up.
Every player-coach-and fan of WSU will remember this game the rest of their lives. Even if WSU makes the final four this year. Even if they win it all. Bigger than another final four. Maybe bigger than a title.
If KU wins-it is just that. Crickets. No T-shirts, just survive and advance.
They screwed SMU with a GT call to get UCLA viewership. Now they have a 7 Cinderella. Sure hope it backfires and ratings drop to stop manipulation like this to rate seeds fair rather than cheat the numbers -even make bad calls to favor viewership.
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I am either overly optimistic and when KU gives me no reason to be I am overly sarcastic. To be optimistic, we yet again won another title, 11 in a row, we have a great kid running the point for two more years, we have extra games this summer, and we have a coach who runs a great system, the system however only works with the right players. Ellis is not a true big man and LL was never expected to contribute starter minutes. Cliff was a bust of a big man for more than one reason and the High Low works best when you actually have a threat inside to throw down low to. I for one am proud of this team, always love to watch KU play, and will hope for better things next year, especially inside. I think we are more than good w Mason and Graham, SELDEN @KUSTEVE lol, and Svi. Here is to another off season of anticipation and checking recruiting sites way too often and hoping for big developments from LL, Jamari, and HM!
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The first 15 mins. of the game played out like I imagined. We were the better team. Longer, more talented. Then after they made that little run, it seemed that they wanted it more than us. I hate to say it, but they deserve to keep on playing…we do not. I love all of our guys. But, people have complained about Wayne all year long. In the biggest game of the year…he disappeared completely. Perry and Frank were the only ones that showed up. Graham also, but only in the 2nd half when the game was mostly over. Their experience showed. They were balanced. We were not. Cotton killed us. Their guards took over the game. End of story.
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@Hawk8086 our flow was hurt by fouls and Perry going to locker room.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I respect what you are saying…but aren’t you making excuses?
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@Jayrawks1 We didn’t have a big man that could score. I think Cliff could have been that guy down the stretch. We will never know…very said for the kid.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Our D parting like the Red Sea so Cotton could stroll to the rim. And of course Weasel having a career day which we are accustomed to as it happens so often.
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@Hawk8086 We have a big man but he never saw the court.
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@brooksmd seriously I want to work on their defense!
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@Hawk8086 calling it like I see it. Lucas is limited.
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@Jayrawks1 I’m sorry. I allowed my frustration to get the best of me, and I took it out on you.
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I don’t think he wins the game for us but I would have given Hunter Mick all of Jam Tray’s minutes.
And for that matter, SVI could have had all of Selden’s minutes.
I LOVE KANSAS BASKETBALL!!! And this game doesn’t change anything.
We had difficiencies this year in several key positions. And I don’t think we played to our strengths (more 3’s, please.).
I’m ready for the NBA to let the kids go straight to the league or make it 2 preferably 3 years out of HS before they turn pro.
I think HCBS is a teacher at heart and wants to teach everyone the “right” way to play. I don’t see him acquiescing to the OAD’s and letting them dribble drive or freeing the three…just don’t see it happenin…
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Svi said he is coming back next year. I just realized he will be in an even bigger hole next season as far as minutes go. Basically the whole team should be back less Oubre. So not too many minutes are freed up. When you consider that Svi couldn’t get on the court this season how will he next season when everyone returns? Not to mention all the international games the team gets to play in to gel that Svi can’t play in?
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Red Pill anyone?
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@dylans aren’t Oubre’s minutes enough for him? Plus, I think if he steps up, Brannen’s minutes aren’t set in stone. I see lots of time for Svi, with no incoming wings as of yet.
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Agreed!
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@approxinfinity I believe Oubre’s 20 minutes a game are going to be gobbled up by an improving Greene and even moreso Graham. This team needs two ball handlers on the floor at once. After playing 6? games internationally and having over a dozen extra coached practices will really help the others get a leg up. And they already are ahead on the depth chart. I like the kid and think he will he a good baller by the time he’s a junior or senior, but he’s going to have an uphill battle for playing time.
I didn’t even consider Newman or another top guard (freshman or senior transfer) coming in. I don’t think that will happen. I don’t know that I want another guard on next years team that isn’t a ball handler or Oubre.
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@That-Is-All better have a couple!
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Just saw a video where Fred vv summed the game up on the play their kid out hustled oubre at half and dunked it. Said perhaps oubre shouldn’t have been taking a nap during their game. Something about him being a draft pick.
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@KUSTEVE no hard feelings, my bad too.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Funny. I saw that play, thinking Oubre just doesn’t have his head right for this. Of course, neither did Traylor, Ellis, or Selden. We needed someone to show up aside from Mason and Graham, and nobody did.
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The negatives are glaring for this year. But the positives about next year smack me in the face so I can sleep better tonight.
Perry Ellis: Oh boy will we have an absolute stud next year. We all thought that would be this year, but it was on unseen expectations so we couldn’t be sure. Now we saw Ellis become a monster before the knee injury. Give it time to heal along with an off season to become even more complete, and we are looking at an 18 ppg player.
Hunter Mickelson: He NEEDS to become the starting 5 next year. Hopefully another year with Huddy and being around Self will get him the minutes he deserves. Lucas is a serviceable backup but that might be the limit of his potential.
Jamari Traylor: I love the guy but he simply should not get over 20 minutes a game with Ellis, Lucas, and Mickelson all being better options in my opinion. He can come in, get a highlight dunk to spark a nice 8-0 run.
Mason: The bulldog still needs more maturity. When things aren’t running smoothly, it doesn’t mean turn into a freight train and wildly throw up a shot in hopes to getting fouled. But this year, we saw Mason learn to set up teammates when he drives instead of constantly looking to score. The final piece of his maturity is to trust the offense and his teammates in the midst of scoring droughts. I predict this off season, he will do just that.
Greene: Will he have better handles to make him not easily to scout? My hope is he will develop that and by his senior year, be a first round draft pick. We saw him develop quite a bit defensively, so he can develop other aspects as well.
Selden: My hope is he gets past whatever mental block he has. I love him in a Kansas jersey and would hate to see him be recruited over. He see flashes of highlight alley oops and streaky shooting. Will this off season be the time he gets out of the way of himself? Only time will tell.
Svi: I don’t see another wing coming into the situation as far as recruiting is concerned. So Oubre’s time will be split of with Graham and Svi. He will not disappoint next year and be instant offense off the bench.
Graham: We just need him to develop a little bit of everything and we will be in hands off the bench. Shoot a little more consistently, a little better decision-maker, a little more vocal.
Self: With a good possibility of not having a footer for the second year in a row, I believe Self will learn from this season and adjust accordingly. What that looks like, I don’t know. But Self is way to competitive to let the team play out the way it did this year.
Keep in mind, this team has unlimited time to prepare in the summer. UNLIMITED TIME! that means unreal development and chemistry. Hold on to your butts my rock chalk brothers and sisters, we are in for one heck of a ride next year!
In the mean time, let us support our other athletic programs and dream for next year! Rock Chalk Jayhawk!
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@dylans Svi can play better D than Greene so I’d put Svi ahead on that count. Svi may play for his country for the games.
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Now the wichita news and smugass Gregg Marshall!
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@dylans Greene has had 2 years and still can’t play D.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Geez, you’re a glutton for punishment.
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@brooksmd i know! It’s torture!!
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@brooksmd or dribble
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Players saying Wessel a better player than Perry
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Self is on the phone right now looking for Thon Maker or another 7 footer. I don’t feel he will change his ways with the high/low. This is his style of play and his recruiting strategy to bring in post players.
My issue was the perimeter defense with this team. It was weak all year and we finally ran into a team that caught fire lately.
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I really think Coach Self has to let go of the OAD deal completely. Just get back to getting minimum 2 to 3 yr guys that he can develop. I know the culture now is OAD.
But, its just not working here for whatever reason. That much is clear. Its time to say gbye to that and start getting longterm players who fit the system. Im tired of the “were a young team” stuff all the time. Our 2 oldest teams in the Self era played for national titles. Now. As far as this years group. I had no expectations after the Temple loss. Just didnt pass the eye test for me really ever. I had hopes of course. I love my Jayhawks. Ill always have hopes. With that said. This loss… Just doesnt bother me from a stand point of who we played. Wsu in the top 15 all year. We all know they were a solid 4 to 5 seed. No question. It bothers me that after the first 15 minutes we seemed to get out scrapped. Wsu just wanted it more. Thats tough to swallow. Round of 32 loss two years in a row. Also another one and 2 first round losses Self Era. The deal is if not for years when we had great opportunities to make noise and make a statement for this program. 2010, 2011, 2013 the early exits may not hurt as bad. I dont know what the answer or formula is for Coach Self and,this program but i hope it gets fixed. Soon. And please before anyone cites the ole “crap shoot” excuse. Please dont. The tourney is tough. And yes there is some luck involved. But this is Kansas basketball. Were absolutely correct in wanting more. Hell. Even expecting more. I hope there is never another season where i have zero expectations before conference play ever starts
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@cragarhawk said:
dont know what the answer or formula is for Coach Self and,this program but i hope it gets fixed. Soon.
Amen.
Some changes are necessary. And I hope we don’t have to go down any further to go back up. We’ve been to the Sweet16 3 times in the last 5 years. But we’ve missed the last 2, so it seems like a drought.
3 in 5 is really good. But we have high standards. It’s ok to have high expectations. Louisville has been to the Sweet16 in 4 years in a row. So has Michigan State.
Sweet 16 comparison Since 2011 (last 5 years):
- Wisconsin: 4 times
- Kentucky: 4 times
- Arizona: 4 times
- Duke: 3 times
- UNC: 3 times
- ** Kansas 3 times**
- Wichita State: 2 times
- Xavier: 2 times
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I woke up this morning thinking about the game last night and realized that I this is the least upset I have been about the end of a KU season in decades. It is all about expectations, right? This year we rarely if ever blew anyone out. We rarely if ever hung onto a lead. Often we blew leads and either won by very little or lost the game after a huge meltdown. We had injuries. Guys were deemed ineligible. These are not excuses. They are just reality.
Then reality sunk in even more on Selection Sunday. We were given a draw where we were going to have to more than likely beat 3 teams in a row who had all been in the top 10 this year including undefeated UK. My expectations for a deep run were low. Was I positive? Yes, of course. But I was realistic.
When we lost to VCU in 2011 I literally cried. Not like a single tear either. A full on weeping like an 8 year old girl. In 2013 when we blew our 10 point lead to Michigan I smashed a beer glass and told a good friend to f"ck off. Those are low points for me. My expectations for those teams was National Title or bust. This year after we lost to a very good WSU team that simply played harder and wanted the game more I shed no tears. I spared any pint glasses. I didn’t get in heated arguments with close friends. I simply had a cup of tea to settle down. Read a book and went to bed. It just wasn’t going to be our year and I am ok with that.
We are KU and the journey is always part of the fun. We had some great wins this year and we are going to be fortunate enough as fans to see almost this entire team back next year. Oubre may leave. Cliff is probably gone. But our heart and soul will return and I think we should all be excited that next year is going to be another top 10 KU basketball team. That is more than almost any other program in the country can say.
Rock Chalk.
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I have no answers for this team. The talent is there. No consistency I guess. No “chemistry”. Teamwork is lacking - nobody seemed to be on the same page.
I’m with @joeloveshawks - in the past, I’ve lost my mind after a loss like yesterday. Now, I am about as apathetic as I could possibly be. I was much more upset about forgetting to DVR “The Last Man on Earth” last night…
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@joeloveshawks I understand your recoil. But this team had a high level of talented players. Selden a top 20 player, Oubre top 10, Svi an NBA talent, Greene top 40, Graham top 40, Mason was ranked around 75thish, Ellis top 40, Cliff top 5.
With that level of talent, we should win the conference, right? No one compares.
From a talent perspective – recruiting ratings – name me 5 teams with more roster talent? Kentucky, Duke and … exactly.
What were your expectations early in the season? Mid season? When we were 21-4?
The reality is … harsh reality … is that we underachieved yet again. As two seeds, the last two seasons, we are bounced in the first weekend. And as a 1 seed in 2013, we lose in the sweet 16.
And it is very sad that many of us, including @nuleafjhawk – a great Jayhawk fan – are reduced to being “apathetic” today. A coping mechanism, to be sure.
This is more like a day of mourning.
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I’m not shattered, but I’m still bummed. It snowed overnight here, and is still snowing. Appropriate. Day of mourning indeed.
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Ironically, I watched last man on Earth after the game and kept thinking “how has this not been cancelled yet?”
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@joeloveshawks, @nuleafkhawk
great posts, I felt the same way.
2011 I felt like I was in a comma for weeks I was so upset. To know we absolutely had the best team in the nation and let VCU do exactly what WSU did to us yesterday.
2013 I was in a Casino with friends watching the game at various TV’s. They played well and I thought the game was in the bag. When we blew the lead it’s like the life came out of me. Lost money at the poker table and didn’t even care. A guy at the table was talking about how KU just lost, I looked at him like I could choke the life out of him. I spent the next week trying to figure out how Elijah Johnson could have possibly blown that end of game so bad.
2014 I felt the game was over early and I was right. I went to the gym to vent my frustrations out only to find them try and come back. Another team that wanted it more than KU.
2015 I got the same feeling as last year right before halftime. I basically shut off all emotion and I said in the game thread that the game was over early in the 2nd half. When you get that feeling, it rarely ever turns around. Self is one of the best coaches but he can’t make kids understand that your going home if you don’t bring it. Not having Senior’s will do that, the urgency is just not there.
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You mentioned going to Omaha last week…did you go see this debacle live yesterday?
Doesn’t matter either way I’m just curious. I REALLY want to go to a ncaa tourney game but would prefer to see a win.
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@HighEliteMajor I love your posts. The best on here. And you always refer to our talent and I understand that. But are these guys really as talented as you think? Yes, they came in with high expectations due to what they did in high school but are they really that much more talented than WSU? It didn’t seem that way to me yesterday. Oubre and Greene may be a top 10 and top 40 players but they certainly didn’t look more talented than Ron Baker who was unranked. Van Vleet did whatever he wanted. Is he less talented than anyone on KU? I think a lot of our fans including myself assume we are more talented because our guys come in highly ranked and play for KU. We are all probably just wearing crimson colored glasses. Just give it some thought. Lots of teams have talent and just don’t have the flashy rankings to back it up.
Frank Mason is a stud and a super talent but was unranked. Perry is very talented but not a guy who can carry a team to victory by himself. Wayne is talented sure, but shows up to about 50% of our games.
Talent is only part of the equation. See Texas this year. See Duke last year. See UK when they went to the NIT.
Did KU underachieve this year? You bet. Am I upset that the season ended the way that it did after being 21-4 and winning another Big 12 title? Of course. But it happens. Nova and UVA were better than KU ALL season and they were sent packing as well. The NCAA tournament is a harsh and brutal way to end the year…every year unless you somehow win it all, which we have done 3 times ever.
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What I don’t like is the complete lack of urgency in KU’s last few oad players. It’s like they are looking forward to the draft and a big payday and not taking care of business. They play as if they have something to fall back on. Four year players tend to leave it on the court as this is their big stage. There is no next level to prove yourself; do it here and now.
Ali Farhokamesh (sp.) sure didn’t look tenative against KU. Why does someone as talented as Oubre go silently into the night?
