Time to show some love
-
Well, another top20 team surrenders a late lead (UNC). It happens. Team fail. Blame whoever you want, coaches, players, youth, whatever…but it happens, and will happen again. Be glad it wasn’t a season-ender like UNI or VCU or killerB’s…but that will happen again, too…just like Duke got Mercerized last season. It’s basketball played by 18-22yr olds.
-
I really get upset when fair weather fans start beating on the players from the safety of their computers. I will guess most of the ones doing the criticism are beer guzzling, balding middle age men with huge beer bellies that couldn’t jump 6 inches from the ground if their lives depended on it and the only exercise they get is changing channels from the comfort of their lazy boys and yet they criticize superior athletes just because they did not execute one play to their satisfaction? I find it pretty sad and pathetic.
I know some people find it “fashionable” to constantly criticize Perry (and other players/coaches) even when he has been one of our steadier if not steadiest player. A few days ago there was thread with names of potential all-conference players and I did not see Perry’s name. Interesting that a few days later at a meeting with a client and while visiting after the meeting with several individual that were fans of other teams, almost all had Perry as an all-conference selection, how sad that fans of other programs appreciate Perry more than many KU fans do. I guess the expression …the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence…is true after all.
Please don’t reply to my post telling me how wrong I am and how bad Perry is…I am tired of the negativity. I am a loyal KU fan and as such, I stand behind the team in the good times and more importantly on the bad times as well.
-
Always a segment of people that need a scapegoat (like that changes the result any…). Want to bet the UNC fanbase is throwing darts at either some of their own players or their coach, right about now? Especially after UNC squandered a 9pt lead with 2min to go vs Duke…sound familiar? Top20 team squanders lead to rival. Welcome to college basketball.
To quote Perry Ellis’ coach: “Perry shouldn’t have been placed in that position.” (alluding to the team fail that allowed a 10pt comeback).
But some people just need a 'goat. Makes em feel better. Even some KU people, evidently. Here’s a list of recent KU “goats”: Ellis, Mason, Tharpe, EJ, Tyshawn, Sherron, Thomas Robinson, Withey, Markieff Morris, Marcus Morris, Brady Morningstar, Tyrel Reed, Xavier Henry, Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Nick Collison, Keith Langford, Wayne Simien, and on and on and on… Lets not forget to blame coach-goats like Roy Williams and Bill Self. Oh, and lets blame Danny Manning for not being here to get (hypothetically) more out of our bigs, I’ve seen that one posted on the other site, too.
I’d like to tell some of these fans to look in the mirror and also “blame” themselves for not being able to ‘handle’ a loss. Not being able to analyze objectively the reasons for a loss right there on game film. Not being able to recognize that losses are inevitable, and not learning to rationalize it out without doing so at someone’s expense. Not remembering Div 1 is a no-pro league, with the game being played and executed by 17-23yr olds, most of whom will never make it to the NBA. Not remembering the greatest player ever (MJ) going 4-for-19 from the field in a pro game once upon a time, many times…
Mirror, mirror.
-
@DoubleDD Good thread, I’m with you on this. In the recent past, I thought I had Ellis’ personality typecast, and didn’t think he could play outside of his own personality box, but Im thrilled he’s proved me wrong. Ellis has been busting his tail lately, and been playing more physical than I’ve ever seen him. He deserves praise in the big picture context actually, as we’ll need such play out of him in the next 7 weeks…
-
I figure that Bill Self is looking at the big picture… He and the team have goals-- win the B12, get to the FF… win the NC… He is going to do what needs to be done to best achieve those goals.
Sometimes, I think he purposefully withholds greatness and embraces the challenge. I think he knows that learning is uncomfortable and it’s not always pretty. And if you’re doing something you are familiar and comfortable with, you aren’t learning as much. We don’t learn as much when we don’t struggle… and we don’t learn as much when we are content.
Great video on this point called “Why you need to fail”
The team needs to win games, yes… But, even more importantly, it needs to learn certain lessons that lead to winning games. Self focuses on those lessons. On Monday, the main lesson was for Cliff Alexander (a lesson we’ve seen a couple times this season.) Self’s apparent infatuation with the inside-out game is really about learning and improving that part of the game because he knows that team that is one-dimensional is easier to defeat than a multi-dimensional team (outside-in & inside-out).
I don’t think he wants to lose games, but I think he’s willing to sacrifice short-term gains for long-term goals.
It’s frustrating for us fans because we see the product of this effort – we see a team that should have beaten an inferior opponent and didn’t appear to do some of the things that would put it in a position for more certain victory.
But that’s our outside-in view. His view from the inside-out is probably a bit rosier knowing that – the next few games – he’s going to get some different behaviors from his team.
-
A lot of players could not have dunked that ball in those circumstances. If Perry was aware that he had 2.5 seconds left, he could have slipped a jump stop in and at least been fouled or slammed it home. As it were, he didn’t have the center of gravity or balance & the necessary hops to make that play. That is a play Wiggins & McLemore can make, but I’m having a hard time thinking of any other KU players (in recent memory) that could have flushed that home on pure athleticism. Unfortunately, Perry is the type of player that is in his own head battling more than he should be on this. Hopefully, he let’s it go. I go back to my favorite Nolan Ryan quote:
“Never let the success or failure of your last pitch affect the success of your next one.”
It teaches both humility and recovery. Don’t get too high or too low on yourself.
-
If he makes the shot he is a hero. Perry Ellis will have plenty more chances. Hope he makes the next one. He has been much more aggressive lately. He also had a nice 3 pointer during that game. That game is over, time to move on to the next.
-
@DoubleDD Man, people that do that arent real KU fans
-
@bskeet Well said. I think that is a stellar point.
-
@ralster “It’s basketball played by 18-22yr olds.”
Is the NBA letting 3 year veterans go back to college now?
-
What are all you bums doing up this early anyway ?
-
I’ve got to admit I’ve always been somewhat baffled by the Perry haters (or at least dis-likers). It’s almost as though because he doesn’t beat his chest or do back flips at center court, he’s less worthy. You old timers think of your favorite players from 20, 30, 40 years ago - Perry’s probably put up better numbers than a lot of them. And he’s got one more year to go. He could be more aggressive, but so could …oh, everyone else on this team.
Fifteen years from now we will remember Perry Ellis.
-
I didn’t see one word of “hate” towards Perry. Of course, I only have Kubuckets as a reference point. Maybe the boys over at kusports had another bloodletting party, as they’re prone to do.
-
@DoubleDD No Perry pounding here !! That’s only on facegate registered users sites. Civil Hawk will swoop down & devour moles on buckets fast as a jackrabbit on a date. Leave the trolls to twitter, facebook, & kusports.com…
-
@Blown really nice!!!
-
Hang in there, Perry. The Sun Also Rises!
-
Hard to believe any true fans of KU basketball take time out of their schedule to trash Perry for missing that shot. Was it a shot he makes 9 of 10 times? Probably. But without his great play we aren’t even in that game. Perry is stud and he has hit big shots to help win us games and he isn’t done. There is a lot of season left Perry is going to be one of the main guys we will look to for buckets when the season is on the line.
-
I did some peeking around last night just to see what others had said. I’m not even sure some of the folks making silly comments were KU fans anyway. Someone mentioned that there are always 10-15% of any group that is irrational. Might be a bit higher.
Perry’s defense has improved significantly this season, and that has to be due to his effort. Anyone watching the guy go for rebounds can see that he’s really giving high effort in that area, too. To me, everything Perry can control, he’s gotten better at. He is clearly working hard.
Any part of his game that we find insufficient, in my mind, is solely due to his natural limitations. That discussion is no different than the “I wish” discussion on many players. We have seen the guy be spectacular when his skill set is utilized.
When discussing players, there is a difference between 1) Perry can’t score over long and athletic guys and 2) Perry doesn’t block out on rebounds. .
Of course, Perry does block out on rebounds. The point is that point 1) is not really within his control while point 2) is.
Anyone that has played the game has missed the exact layup that Perry missed – high speed off the catch. Not much time to think. It’s just an unfair criticism to lay on a player, particularly in the last seconds.
The real issue from the end of the game I’m curious about is why Perry didn’t step in to stop the penetration by Staten. That’s a more fundamental item that was completely within his control. Then we backtrack to how Staten even got to that position, which is the real item of discussion in my book.
Everything at the end of a game is hyper-focused. It’s kind of funny, actually. I saw a comment that said that Perry missing that last shot didn’t lose us the game. Now, I don’t blame Perry at all for the miss – but it almost surely lost us the game. If he makes it, we’re ahead. It’s like not suggesting a bad late game call didn’t cost a game. Sure it did. Everything that was done was done by that point. So the next event is the only thing that controls the outcome.
So sure, Perry missing might have cost us the game. But so could have Lucas’ missed free throws, or the missed three pointer in the first half. We just know on Perry’s that the likelihood of winning would have been extremely high if he had made it, while the missed three pointer in the first half, there is no way to quantify with the amount of time remaining.
But that doesn’t mean he deserves any criticism for missing the layup at all.
-
@HighEliteMajor “Anyone that has played the game has missed the exact layup that Perry missed – high speed off the catch. Not much time to think. It’s just an unfair criticism to lay on a player, particularly in the last seconds.”
B I N G O !
-
I will show my love for Perry Ellis physicality in this last game. He had a taste of it the game before when he put a Baylor guard on the ground. This game found his opposing player on the ground because he stood his. Perry seems like he got a taste of contact and now he is going looking for it.
-
I don’t have a problem with Perry missing the last shot. It was bang-bang and close to out of control.
But in the first half he was about 1-4 with a shot blocked. And this with Bill running the offense to ‘go to’ him, with the first two possessions all about ‘feed the post.’ And he misses the short shots. He’s either got to hit those, or Bill has to stop trying to pound it in to him there.
The whole concept of ‘feed the post’ is that those are supposed to be the high percentage shots.
-
In my not so humble opinion, Perry’s problems scoring this season stem largely from inadequate help from our other post players…and from the coaching staff’s tenacious determination to polish the inside-out game. Embiid’s departure left a huge gap in our customary Big Man Game. Alexander’s injuries and slow adjustments to Self’s Game has also thwarted Perry’s shooting. There is not a finer player on this team than Perry Ellis. He shoulders a mighty big bundle. Perry Ellis goes down, then Fools Gold is absolutely all that’s left!
-
@nuleafjhawk said:
I’ve got to admit I’ve always been somewhat baffled by the Perry haters (or at least dis-likers). It’s almost as though because he doesn’t beat his chest or do back flips at center court, he’s less worthy. You old timers think of your favorite players from 20, 30, 40 years ago - Perry’s probably put up better numbers than a lot of them. And he’s got one more year to go. He could be more aggressive, but so could …oh, everyone else on this team.
Fifteen years from now we will remember Perry Ellis.
Agreed perry Ellis has to be the most underrated player we’ve ever had as a starter. That second half vs West Virginia was probably the most impressed I’ve ever been watching him play. He couldn’t miss !! I guess I’m different than most, because when he missed that game winner all I thought was what an outstanding effort and hustle play DAMN. . Sometimes they drop, sometimes they don’t, that was about as high pressure of a shot during a conference season as Marios miracle shot. This time it just didn’t drop I have a feeling he will get that back when it matters in March.
-
I think the backlash against Perry has more to do with expectation than skill, which is more the fault of fans than it is of Perry. If Perry Ellis had been a four star recruit that wasn’t the leading scorer in Kansas HS history upon graduation that was brought in hoping he would contribute as a four year player, everyone would be singing his praises.
Honestly, I think it was the McD’s game that caused this. Looking back at his ranking, he was ranked just ahead of Rico Gaithers of Baylor. Gaithers is a rebounding machine (12 per game), but not much of a skilled scorer, shooting just 45% overall, even though most of his offense comes at the rim. Perry is a much more skilled player, as evidenced by his three point shooting and passing (Gaithers has less than 30 assists in his entire three year career - Perry has 35 this year). Gaithers is a one dimensional player (rebounding). Perry is a more skilled player, but without one standout quality.
Because he was a McD’s AA, we think he should have become a top NBA prospect and miss completely the fact that Perry is what he always would have become - a very, very good college player.
If Perry stays healthy, he will likely finish his KU career between 1550 and 1600 points, which will put him in the company of Calvin Thompson, Kenny Gregory, Jeff Boschee, Tyshawn Taylor and Wayne Simien. With a little bit of a scoring push, he could pass Mark Randall on the scoring chart and wind up 12th in KU history at around 1630 career points.
Good health will also land him close to 850 rebounds, which would put him in the top 10 in KU history.
Simply put, Perry Ellis will probably have one of the 30 greatest careers in KU history, both by the numbers and just in games. Add to that the fact that he’s done that this far without any issues, either academically or off the court.
Perry should be praised for who he is and what he’s accomplished, instead of wishing that he was something more. Let him be great for who he is.
-
Very nicely done. Perry seems to be heavily underrated and criticized by a lot of KU fans. Fans from other conference teams consider him all-conference caliber and have a lot of respect for him.
-
As I mentioned in another thread, it took a team effort for Kansas to be in the position to rely on Jamari to make a great throw and Perry a great over the shoulder catch to win the game. Unfortunately the end result is all some dwell on.
