World games impact on this years recruiting class
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I don’t think its a case that they are struggling at all, they have depth and none of their players have seen the type of minutes like Frank Mason has seen. For example Frank has played 829 minutes, almost 2 full games more than Selden who is second with 758. The leading minutes earner at UK is Aaron Harrison with 647, that is about 1 1/2 less game time action than Perry Ellis who is 3rd on our team. They are much fresher than basically any team in America.
Teams are giving them all they can handle. The SEC is a very weak conference this year but if we were 25-0 in our conference I’m definitely sure that a TCU or Texas Tech would have played way above their usual level of play to knock off the undefeated team. It’s just so hard no matter how good you are these days to stay on top. Shows you how dominate Indiana was.
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Welcome aboard!
It must help us with recruiting.
And I think it will help us improve as a team (as long as we have enough depth). Kind of hard to imagine how good these guys are going to be. Frank, Brannen, Devonte, and whoever returns… We should be in solid contention for #12 (if we can hold on to #11).
Kentucky is playing some bad ball right now, but they have no motivation from playing game after game against creampuffs. I think we’ll see the real Kentucky in March, when the marbles are on the line. That doesn’t mean they win it all… but seriously… they are the heavy favorite.
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A few thought about the subject…
First, as I understand McLEmore has been taking classes hoping to eventually graduate, so he might be available. TTBOMK, TRob has not taken classes recently so he is more likely not eligible. Tyshawn graduated form KU, and unless he is taking course towards a graduate degree he is more likely not eligible. Also, if any of these players is under contract with a pro team, chances are slim to none that they get permission to play (remember Paul Geoge?); teams are discouraging players to play even for the National Team so playing at the World University Games seems even less likely.
Wiggins, Embiid and Svi, if they play at all, they would be playing for Canada, Cameroon and Ukraine and not for the team that represents the USA since you need to be a US citizen to play for the USA; this much is pretty clear.
The good: KU gets to have an early start on practice and not incur the wrath of the NCAA; however, since only 12 players are allowed, It is not clear if only these players would be allowed to practice or the entire team. A good showing at the Tournament would enhance KU’s reputation plus a trip to China for the selected players is big plus.
The bad: How about the players that do not get selected? If KU signs a couple of more big time recruits, do they have a place on the team? How about the players (if any) that elect to go to the NBA, say Oubre and Alexander, do they get a place and practice with the team even when they will not be there next season? If this is the case and we also get some current NBA players, how does this really help next season’s team? Let’s keep in mind that KU will be playing against all-star teams with a lot of professional players and a bad showing for KU could hurt more than help. If NBA or NBA bound players are selected it might leave as few as 7 spots for players that will be at KU next season…what effect will this have on team chemistry? I believe it would not difficult to have the AD or donors pay for the entire team to go on the trip even when only 12 will play; however, I am not sure if the NCAA would approve it.
Maybe some of the items above are not really big issues but it might end up putting the coaching staff in a difficult situation…BTW, there might also be a limit on the number of coaches and support personnel allowed so more choices might need to be made.
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@JayHawkFanToo we go thru this every couple of months and forget again! Ha I think if TRob signs up for a summer class it’s good enough, maybe even an online class. I also thought if they declare, they are not eligible(?) I thought new guys coming in can play, that’s hopefully an attraction to sign. Walk on guys wouldn’t get to go. Agree on the chemistry, but depending on the upcoming roster, TRob might look good. He never comes back, wonder why? Makes me sad!
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Why would they not be eligible if they declare? They are still student only a couple of months removed from KU. If current NBA players that have been gone for while are eligible, the players still at KU that just declared should be eligible, wouldn’t you think? Just signing for a summer class might not be enough, the requirement call for “completion towards a degree.”
Again, lots of uncertainty until the time when the rubber hits the road and the 12 players have to be selected.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m not positive on any of that, but yeah, makes no sense!
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@JayHawkFanToo Evidently you, too, were under the impression that we could enter only 12 players in this tournament. Pessimist that I am, I can foresee major repercussions for Bill Self if newbies and former players get the call while other current players get left out. Depending on attrition of potential NBA draftees, a logjam might not occur, unless pro teams are willing to free their CATCH for this early opportunity on a world stage. I would imagine that Self will make the most of the whole deal, not suffer substantial backlash if his squad should face a numbers game. Sometimes it appears best to flush the disgruntled…although the only current player who might fit that mold could be Hunter Mickelson. If he should finish his degree he could transfer anywhere and be immediately eligible for his final year (as did T. Black). Unless we recruit a topflight footer, Self would probably like to hang on to Hunter. By 3rd season in the program he should be mighty savvy re the system.
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Welcome aboard. Nice topic.
I believe it all comes down to who stays and who goes. I do believe in your theory that this could indeed help KU in recruiting. I believe I read some where that Bragg and some other top recruits wanted to play together. Not sure what Bragg committing early does to those plans.
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Me neither. Probably we will not know until they are ready to select the 12 players and start practice . Until then it is just speculation.
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Something to ponder. Worst case…we get another 2 top recruits and we somehow get the 3 pro players mentioned and Oubre and Alexader declare. If the 3 incoming players are selected along with the 3 pros and the two declared players, that leaves 4 spots for returning players and 7 spots for players that would play next season. Granted, this is a doomsday (or some say best case) and highly unlikely scenario but possible nonetheless. It would be a difficult decision to pass on the pros or to tell the incoming freshmen they will not play…lots of tough decisions.
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@JayHawkFanToo looks like beddies post say players that declare can play. I’m guessing Self would go w/incoming over them. It will definitely be fun!
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…on the other hand, wouldn’t a player that has declared (he is obviously good) and is familiar with the system give you better option than an “unknown quantity” incoming player not familiar with the system? Just thinking aloud…
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@Crimsonorblue22 Let’s say that our Junkyard Dog, Oubre, posts fantastic numbers in several categories throughout the next 7 weeks. He leaps to Top 10 lottery on all the draft boards, so makes the leap. Would Self prefer not to pursue his services for such a Jayhawk Bounce on a World Stage? (If there should be a numbers crunch involving incoming recruits…)
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@JayHawkFanToo in that case a former nba player would be best?? If this is to develop our team, and I think it is, we would go w/incoming?
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@REHawk I agree! I’m sure self has a plan!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I’m not so sure. The publicity and possibility of international disgrace lies HUGE for KU. We can’t afford to come home dragging our fannies.
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@REHawk so what do you think we should do? Let’s say we get some really good recruits, Newman, 7 footer. Oubre declares.
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Interesting. Do you field the best possible team since you represent the entire country? Do you reward players that have been in the system? Do you select players that will help you in the future even when the team will not be nearly as good? How do you balance the national versus KU image? Playing as KU, a loss is not that big of a deal, but when you represent the entire country a loss has much different and greater meaning…at least it would for me…
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I am buying the argument of wanting to give our current players more reps. Someone like TRob would hurt Cliff and Taylor would hurt Graham. What about bringing someone on board who can instill an attitude and a good mentor? Someone like Black who can mentor the players, bring a winning mentality, and still get some production without being dominating the possessions. Withey? Collins? Young? Selby? (obvious joke on the last one). All they need is to enroll in a 3 hour course towards a master degree.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Well, I’m inclined to postpone such an announcement until I see how the numbers actually pan out. But I do predict a big decision eventually to be made. If I’m not wrong in the count, we now carry 11 scholarship players. Svi can’t play with us in these Games, so that makes 10 remaining (and returning, supposedly). If Oubre leaves, Self has 3 open schollies. He fills those, and already there is a numbers crunch…that is, if Oubre or TRob or Ben Mac should return. We just have to wait to see how things turn out. Hunter might declare for a transfer. Who knows?
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Although, imagining Robinson in a Kansas jersey again does get me hot and bothered in inappropriate ways…
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I can see us taking 10 current players and a couple of past players.
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@REHawk pretty hard decisions! Coach is pretty competitive, but I think he would build for the season, hence the tough preseasons. I can see him wanting to get some past guys out there to help them, like TRob. I’m done guessing.
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@drgnslayr Maybe that is why we aren’t yet gleaning a footer out there on the recruiting trail?
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We have really come to touch on something very pertinent and essential. Is Self luring newbies with the promise of playing in these Games? Or not?
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@JhawkAlum for me they are appropriate!!! Jk I love that guy! Guess you can tell from my avatar. Wish he would come back once-in-awhile.
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Not sure I follow you.
UK has 10 OAD/TADs, maybe the biggest talent advantage in sports since the 1927 Yankees.
Yet they are eeking out wins against teams some SEC teams?
They are playing in the weakest power conference in the country and they are eeking out wins in February?
With 10 OAD/TADs?
And you think this because everyone is giving them their best shot?
What difference does it make if weak teams with no OAD/TADS are giving UK their best shot?
I am not sure it mattered to the 27 Yankees if weak teams gave it their best shot. It didn’t used to dent UCLA when weak teams gave them their best shot.
It didn’t dent Kentucky early, when KU or other weak teams gave it their best shots. They were blowing KU and others out.
It seems to me more probable that the season has just worn on too long for these guys to stay on an edge, regardless of their mpgs.
They not only shouldn’t lose with the talent edge they have, they shouldn’t even have close games, except against Duke.
UCLA USED TO HAVE A SMALLER EDGE IN TALENT OVER OTHER TEAMS AND went undefeated 4 times and averaged winning by big margins, even with mostly first year starters.
Indiana didn’t seem to have near the talent edge UK has and they struggled some for awhile.
It could be Cal instead of length of season. I have always felt he doesn’t get the most out of his talent, just tries to get the most talent.
But to conclude MY HUNCH REMAINS length of season.
Still, since I trust you, I will try to keep closer tabs on the blue, rat bastards and see if you are right.
Rock Chalk!
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Remember Kentucky has had to reshape some of its lineup with Poythress out for the season. Injuries can make a break a team, but good thing they got 9 more OAD’s.
You forget that conference teams scout their opponents and get something like 15-20 games of game film to go through to scheme against. It’s just pratically impossible to win out in major conferences. KU doesn’t stand a chance of that when you play a 18 game round robin schedule.
Winning on the road seems to be even harder with all the parity. How does Kansas drop a game against Temple by 20, lose to Oklahoma St after a 11 pt halftime lead. We are more talented then them but talent doesn’t always win in College ball.
All I’m saying is the pressure is on that team to win. The media, their rat coach, everywhere they go, every team they play knows they are undefeated and are trying that much harder to win against them. Wichita St got that same feeling last year and lost on a lucky shot. They will never have a team like that again and to think that their talent couldn’t win it alone.
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These four could be added to the team, leaving 8 spots open for travel.
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@wrwlumpy kinda cool you have Withey in there too.
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I just don’t see HCBS adding any former players, especially if he ends up with a loin share of top recruits.
It would be really counter productive to add former players. Unless the agenda is just to win at all cost, or that HCBS wants to show his mad coaching skills to the NBA?
Think about it? Unlimited practices with a young star studded team? No way you leave current players sitting at home. Just my two cents.
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I could have sworn #32 was Andrew White…
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Thank you for the kind welcome everyone, I did not expect such a great response! I have not had the time to research many of the questions we all have about the rules and who can and cant play or who should play, however I would be interested to see what Kentucky chose to do just last year? Did they take any past players? How many players did they take? Etc?
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@JhawkAlum it does look like him!
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@DoubleDD Nah, I totally agree. KU is going to have nearly its whole roster returning next season AND they get unlimited practices AND they get to play in that extra tourney? If ever Coach Self has a perfect storm worth of opportunities to get himself another National Title and a ring, next season is it. Bring every player you have right now, get that experience and beat everyone down next March!
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And the other 8 that get to go to China.
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Based on the rules, Jeff is eligible too.
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Forgot one, Somebody good is going to be left out.
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The agenda is to represent the USA…with the KU team as the foundation. Technically, Coach Self could use players from other schools as well (not saying he would) but since it is the USA team, any American college player is eligible, right?.
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They have to be Jayhawks.
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@wrwlumpy I don’t believe that’s the case. Most years, the team is assembled from a number of college teams. This year was an exeption. The NCAA asked for one university to take responsibility for representing the US and Kansas submitted for the opportunity. At least by the world game rules, we could add players from other teams to fill out the roster. I don’t know if the NCAA would be okay with it, and I doubt Self is interested, but there isn’t any rule preventing that from happening.
As for how this affects our recruiting, I don’t know that it does. I think one of the most important aspects of landing Bragg was that he’d be given more opportunity to learn the system ahead of the season. I don’t necessarily think that was a primary reason for him to sign up, though. I think Bragg knows he’s a multi-year guy (most likely TAD), and that he’ll probably be coming off the bench at first, especially if Alexander stays (which I think is more likely than not). Really, I think this opportunity is a lot like an NCAA title: any top recruit that joins a school says they want to win one or that it was a consideration, but when they fail to do so, very few return. There are exceptions, such as Sullinger coming back for a sophomore year, but most guys that come back do so because they don’t like where their draft stock is (see all of UK’s multi-year guys not named Stein, and excluding Willis and Hawkins, obviously). Only one of the two guys we’re most likely to land at this point (Diallo and Newman) would actually be able to join the team, and I don’t think it’s enough of a selling point to change our fortunes with the remaining guys.
Lastly, on a somewhat related note, in a recent post I said I thought KU was in 2nd place with Ivan Rabb. I’m downgrading that to 4th. I think his list right now would rank 1) Cal, with a bullet 2) UoAz 3) UCLA, 4) KU, 5) UK, and I think it’s unlikely we’ll get a visit. Rabb earlier in the year canceled a visit because KU wouldn’t be playing, but talk of rescheduling it has died down and there remain only 3 home games in the regular season. Unless he announces something in the next week, we won’t have got him on campus and, thus, that pretty much kills our chances with him (not a Julian Wright kind of situation). Diallo is trying to get back out here, though. Still waiting on word from Thon. Having to hang on like this leaves me in a bit more doubt that it will happen, but I’m still on the reclass side of the curve. We’ll see what happens, though.
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@wrwlumpy I still think either Oubre and/or Cliff will be back next season. Not to mention Svi. He wouldnt be eligible though would he? Shame that.
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I am not sure about Svi anymore. He will likely be playing for Ukraine at the World University Games; maybe he gets a good offer from a Euro club and stays, although if he wants to play ion the NBA, coming back to KU would be the best way.
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@Lulufulu This Fox sports article tells us that Kelly will be gone.
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I put us as first on the list for Thon if he gets his reclassification to 2015. I have nothing to base it on except reading recruiting junk online. So take it for what it is worth… nothing.
I think Self would like to use some ex players… maybe a couple.
Still not sure how this clears with the NCAA, and Kansas won’t be doing anything without their legal department nailing down the NCAA in writing.
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@drgnslayr I think you’re right about Thon. We’re either 1st or basically tied with UK. We’re the only two schools on his current list that he’s singled out to receive a visit. Hopefully this all goes through and we can seal the deal.
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http://www.wugusa.com/summer-games/kansas-fans/
Let’s go! Travel info
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I’ve got my eye on Newman. We keep making his cuts. I think he’s definitely down to KU and UK. I like Thon, but the eligibility thing is disturbing. I’m leaning toward Harry Giles (2016) at this point. UK can’t get them all.
I’m just not sure about Jaylen Brown and Brandon Ingram. I know Bragg is recruiting them, but he doesn’t really understand KU’s needs right now. I wouldn’t count out Cheick Diallo either.
UK has Four committed. They have three on the board plus the Australian kid. It really depends on which of their bigs leave. I think Lyles, Towns, Johnson, and likely Cauley-Stein are gone. I don’t think they lose any guards. Their guards are not high either, Andrew Harrison is at 48. The NBA just doesn’t like the UK twins.
4 <a href=‘http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_trades/2015’ title=‘Suns receive the Lakers 2015 first-round pick. (top 5 protected in 2015, top 3 in 2016 and 2017, unprotected 2018.’ class=‘mock_team_link’><strong>*LA Lakers</strong></a> *LA Lakers Karl-Anthony Towns 7-0 250 C Kentucky Fr.
11 <strong>Detroit</strong> Detroit Willie Cauley-St… 7-0 240 C Kentucky Jr.
12 <a href=‘http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_trades/2015’ title=‘Hawks have right to swap 2015 first round picks with Nets.’ class=‘mock_team_link’><strong>*Atlanta</strong></a> *Atlanta Trey Lyles 6-10 250 PF Kentucky Fr.
5 <a href=‘http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_trades/2015’ title=‘Sixers receive the Magic 2015 second round pick.’ class=‘mock_team_link’><strong>*Philadelphia</strong></a> *Philadelphia Dakari Johnson 7-0 255 C Kentucky So.
I just don’t see these bigs going any higher. These four are all that’s gone. You have four coming. He’s done and he’ll do some slick maneuvering to make room if necessary. Watch who he screws to make room.
I see 3-4 leaving and they gain four. This means unless Calipari forces a few out, there’s no way he gets any of the remaining top recruits. I think he’ll likely force Willis, Lee, and maybe the twins out too. This would open up 2-3 more slots to net 2-3 of the top 10: Swanigan, Diallo, and Calipari has a hard-on for Newman too. I think he would like to land Brown and Ingram too. But statistically he simply can’t land every recruit. He’s simply harvesting based on reloading, not need.
I think KU needs to be extremely strategic for 2-3 years. Self has got to sell these recruits on patience, championship, and the NBA. I don’t think pt is always the buzz word. I think a smart recruit will appreciate recruiting content, not recruiting bullsh*t. Calipari’s is all about the numbers. His basic strategy is reload, buy in, and go to the NBA. He doesn’t care about degrees. I think our long-term guys like Ellis, Svi, Traylor, and Lucas are going to be our biggest marketeers for guys staying 2-3, maybe four years.
I think you all are way over analyzing Self’s USA team. He’s all about experience and fun. If the guys can gain experience and win, that’s even better. Don’t over analyze Self. It doesn’t hurt, but I guarantee Self will tell you this is not a recruiting piece at all. I personally don’t think the USA thing makes much difference either.
The more I hear about Oubre, the more I’m convinced he’s so gone. I thought it the minute he started making his transition. I think Self is showcasing him. If Oubre drafts, we’ll get Brown or Ingram…COUNT IT.
Oubre can’t do much better…
10 <strong>Denver</strong> Denver Kelly Oubre 6-7 200 SF Kansas Fr.
I have one name for Brown and Ingram: Wiggins, now commit to KU behind a long list of NBA players: Rush, Henry, BMac, Wiggins, and now Oubre. The list sells itself. What you do at KU is your choice. OAD, TAD or stay all four years and earn a degree…you can’t go wrong.
As for the Jayhawks, Ingram feels that his role as a wing can be developed very well if he decides to go to Lawrence.
“They develop players very well, especially wings,” Ingram said. “With Andrew Wiggins last year, and Kelly (Oubre) this year. I think that would be a good place for me as well.” link text
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@drgnslayr said:
I have nothing to base it on except reading recruiting junk online. So take it for what it is worth… nothing.
Absolutely classic!
Still laughing.
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I believe everyone is missing the biggest question about the World Games team.
DOES TYLER MAKE THE CUT?
