NOW WE KNOW WHY THEY CALL HIM SNACKS?
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Regardless of whether a substance is legal (or not), it doesn’t mean people are on it ALL THE TIME. Just like alcohol. I doubt Earnhardt Jr. chugs a bottle of gin before a race, so why the hell would he smoke pot? There are already laws in place for being illegally under the influence.
Reefer madness around here. Keep your daughter and her trike out of the Taco Bell drive through lane and she’ll be fine!
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Ya, this is way too easy a topic to man the guns about over the years. Lets worry instead about KU and the unfortunate predicament JH has put Self, Zenger, and BGLittle in. Peace.
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On this topic, it’s very hard.
MU didn’t fire Pinkel because of the DUI. The DUI is worse than this, related to the deed itself, in my book.
I struggle with two things, 1) he didn’t tell Self. Dishonesty by omission. And 2) the example he is setting for the players.
This is about Self’s program. Truly a trust Self moment.
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Blown, Thanks for sharing. The major difference between you and Snack is that you were young and didn’t know any better. Snack is a grown up who has incredible influence over youth. If I were a pot-head parent, I still wouldn’t send my kid to a coach who smokes pot. You know do as I say, not what I do? We all have our stories & mine is NOT rosy, but ended up with 2 degrees. I’m sure Snack’s story isn’t rosy either - but that’s then & this is now. This is the reality. Life isn’t fair. A bit of history on doped up citizens. Chinese turned to opium & the emperor didn’t & couldn’t do anything (Brits played a part in it), and soon China got chopped up & occupied by the Western powers & then became the Red State. The thing was Chinese citizens " living in Opiumed (is that a word?) world" were unable to defend themselves against their occupiers & intruders. You cannot tell me dope is good for the society. Thanks ralster for your medical explanation. Sorry Blown. I still enjoy your comments - go Jayhawks!!
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@ralster No apology needed. I don’t take any of this as a personal jab. We have different opinions. Reasonable minds may differ.
FYI, I live in Kansas, not Colorado. I don’t use marijuana, I simply condone having an open mind.
And my father has suffered from PTSD (though he refuses to try cannabis) since 1972 upon his return from Vietnam. And I’ve watched as the VA prescribes pill after pill for him to no avail. Yes, his violence and sensitivity to loud noises and crowds has been lessened, but his true personality has been subdued as well. All of these medicines that are supposed to help him have turned him into a zombie. Sometimes I wish I had the old Jarhead back. Would you want my dad landing his CH53 Sea Stallion in a cross wind on Barbituates and Depressants? Your medical field prescribes them.
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I don’t think this story is complicated. Our drug laws are complicated. But laws are laws and are meant to be followed.
In this case, with a high-profile job working with youth, Jerrance will have to face definite consequences.
It is hard to comment too deep on this without knowing all the details. But I’ll think out loud and voice my opinion…
If I was Jerrance, I would take the offensive and fight for my job. Even though he should have come out with this to Self when it happened, he can still put his best foot forward now.
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Enter a rehab program… Whether or not he is still using, do the right thing and seek help. This is setting the example for the kids he coaches.
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Make a public statement… Discuss this with Self before doing it so he won’t be caught off guard. Admit guilt publicly along with what steps he must do (responsibly) moving forward. Apologize to Self, his players, the university and the fans.
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Commit even more… Find a way to commit himself to helping youth on the drug issues. Maybe he becomes a counselor. It doesn’t even necessarily have to be directly related to drug rehab… perhaps he starts a program to help kids find something else to do besides smoke pot.
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Commit to the Athletic Department… Trust has been lost with him and the AD. He has to structure a plan and commitment for transparency in the future.
If he doesn’t take a proactive role in this, he should most-likely leave his position… either by resignation or termination.
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Bye-bye, Jerrance. I am certain that Bill will help you land on your feet; but elsewhere. Thanks for the recruiting contributions. Good luck with readjusting your career path.
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@ralster Mega PHOF’s for your comments about the effects of pot. I’m not in the know like you are, but it was well stated. I couldn’t agree more.
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@Blown I understand where you’re coming from but your dad would not be on flying status if he was prescribed those meds.
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As society changes what was once legal becomes illegal, and vice versa. Though there is a movement to legalize Cannabis it is indeed still illegal in most states.
Some will say the law is the law and so forth and the law was broken. Therefore he is guilty and must be fired or released as to save the image of the University. That he had a leadership position and therefore there is no second chance.
And some will say what’s the big deal. Is getting caught smoking cannabis any different than getting caught drinking while driving. They will make a case why cannabis should be legal and point to the fact that is indeed becoming legal. No they will say to releasing Snacks, instead will say give him a second chance. What’s the big deal.
Well you are both right and wrong.
In the end Snack’s real crime will be he didn’t tell HCBS. That my friends is a no, no. '(
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Interesting comments in here on pot.
I believe I have a different perspective from most. I lived a majority of my adult years in a country that had a tolerant policy towards possessing and selling pot (in certain quantities).
First thing to note: In many ways, pot should not be considered similar to alcohol and other mind-altering substances. Pot has no levels of toxicity. You can’t OD on pot. There may be some level of toxicity created from burning pot, but that is often disputed, and for medical purposes there are known safe methods for ingesting this substance. For recreational purposes, in the area of toxicity, it is a clear winner over alcohol. There is no valid argument left on this. Done.
There are other issues regarding responsible use that are unique to pot. THC stays in the body for long periods of time, and regular users build up levels in their bodies and there is a definite question as to whether or not they should be operating equipment like cars and planes while having a lifestyle of use. Technology is about to bring us better measuring devices and policies can be set with the goal of public safety in mind. There is no way around this. It is the right thing to do, regardless which side people are on this issue. Public safety needs to be the #1 consideration. Because of the lingering effect, it will be hard to keep pot in your lifestyle while desiring to operate motor vehicles or other equipment. Just look at the constant lowering of acceptable alcohol limits. It will be equally stringent on pot use. But the issue with pot is that 24 hours later you will still maintain a measurable amount of THC in your body, and further use will increase that amount. This is very different than alcohol.
From a medical perspective… I have problems with the direction of our society. Medication is being highjacked by profits. Adequate studies cost extreme amounts of money, and the only way to get these studies done is to have a financial carrot in front of big pharma. I’m sure they are busy now gobbling up patents on synthetic processes involving components of pot. Patents create the opportunity to make big money through protection. The focus isn’t on helping people… the focus is on profits.
There are institutions in this world that are studying the medical effects of pot. In most cases, those studies have been (and will be) criticized for not meeting certain standards. Standards controlled by associations and industry that are driven by high profit.
I guess it comes down to basic beliefs. Do you believe your health care should be controlled by for-profit corporations? Do they have your interests at heart? Have you ever read corporate charters before? Do you realize there is nothing written into corporate law that involves medical ethics? No mention of the Hippocratic Oath. Nothing. The structure of a corporation is about controlling profits, ownership and power. In fact, those persons running a corporation who make decisions based on medical ethics above their own corporate interests are breaking their contractual obligation to shareholders. Corporations are strictly about profits.
I tend to side towards pot for medical purposes because I also believe in natural treatments over synthetic medicine. I put synthetic medicine as a last resort option. And the testing provided to qualify modern medicine is a complete joke. The testing is performed by labs that are hired by the pharmaceutical companies. No bias there, right? Synthetic science has extreme flaws in it’s very basic structure… to find an effect from a substance, then provide that substance in high isolated amounts. It turns out that mother nature knows something about providing help to illness, especially since probably 99% of our survival came through natural treatments (Google Chinese medicine). It turns out that the safest treatments come from natural-occurring compounds and not isolated substances. It is through these compounds that nature works its magic and help comes with less or no side effects because the other elements in the compound play a role in the outcomes.
Synthetic medicine is not the backbone of our modern day rise to quality of life and health. That has come through other advancements, like water treatment and public waste management. That isn’t to say that modern science and isolating elements are a total flop. Chlorine is a dangerous substance, but it has helped sterilize our water supply from dangerous pathogens in an economical fashion.
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You mean a small mom and pop business isn’t about profit? I’m sure Jayhawk Tire is about profit.
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You are comparing apples and oranges. Alcohol possession and drinking, as long as you are of legal age and don’t drive while intoxicated, is legal. Even if you don’t use it, pot possession is illegal in most states by state law and illegal in all states by federal law. One involves doing something legal that by excess or lack of judgment turns illegal, the other is knowingly doing something illegal, period.
As @ralster indicated and without going into the details, KU CANNOT have one policy for players and one for coaches, if anything, the policy for coached should be more strict since they are the “adults” and role models for many of the kids, where players are young, inexperienced, away from home and with a lot of peer pressure to boot. Adults have to set the example they want the kids to follow…do as I say and not as I do… is by no means acceptable.
Peter Drucker famously said:
Management is doing things right;
**leadership is doing the right things **
So it boils down to whether you want to do what is expedient for the program or whats is good for the program. The first case would involve maybe a suspension for the rest of the season and the second would be dismissal from the program. If Howard kept this from Coach Self, I just don’t see how he would keep his job.
I guess it comes down to choosing between being a manager or being a leader.
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@brooksmd Swampman Shelby says "Go, git, gone. "Guess he should know…’
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@JayHawkFanToo Managers can be as bosses; covert oft times. Leaders are at the forefront leading by example. We’ll now find out about Bill going forward.
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I am sorry that you has such a hard upbringing, I truly am; however, by your own description. most of it happened when you were a minor or barely past that age and under extreme circumstances and with a still developing moral compass. The same cannot be said about Howard. He is an adult in a very comfortable (and enviable) situation and in a position of authority/power/influence where he is expected to lead and be a role model for young adults and have a well formed and rounded set of moral and ethical principles. Wouldn’t you agree?
Remember, with great power. comes great responsibility - Spider-man’s Uncle Ben.
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@globaljaybird Shelby is crazy.
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I enjoy all the different points of view. Thinking is healthy and my favorite thing to do.
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@JayHawkFanToo I agree he should have known better. I just don’t believe this will be easy for Self. I liked someone else’s idea that JH should consider stepping down.
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Doubt he’ll resign at this point. What would be his reason–for the good of the team/he’s become a distraction… something along those lines? Very few details to the story. Frankly, it really seems unbelievable that no one knew about it until one day before his court supervision ended.
I’m sure Self can point to some personnel policy to justify whatever decision he makes, if it’s even his to make.
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@brooksmd Sure as a frogs @$$ is waterproof…
Bill needs to let Snacks go.
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Just read 2-week suspension from all activities.
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Here is the link…
We really don’t know all the details but my first reaction is disappointment…
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@wrwlumpy thought this headline was clever. Nice work.
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So he has already finished 6 months of pee test ordered through the court system of Peoria and paid his fine + a two week suspension. What kind of pressure are these recruiting coaches under? 2 DUI’s for Huggy’s boy that stayed at KSU before going to be with Turgeon and losing his job for his second arrest. I like the Jacque Vaughn idea. There must be some big fish he has on the line in recruiting, BIG FISH.
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I feel bad for Snacks. He’s as much one of our own as Wayne Selden or Frank Mason, imo. Maybe more so being that he played four years for Bill Self at Illinois prior to two years of coaching for KU. This is a lifestyle choice, considered illegal in some parts of the country. Most of us have gambled in office pools, drank in public, trespassed and broken God knows what other petty laws in our life. It is my opinion that the government should only be dictating what choices I can make in so much as how they may harm others. You may disagree, but please let’s consider Snacks one of our own and hope this all works out for the best.
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“You mean a small mom and pop business isn’t about profit? I’m sure Jayhawk Tire is about profit.”
Hey… I’m a capitalist. And I don’t mind big business having financial incentives to innovate products, including medicine.
But they control medicine now in it’s entirety.
Ever wonder why America has one of the highest costs for health care in this “free market” system? There is nothing free market about medicine in America… absolutely nothing. Did you know the AMA is the #1 spender of lobby dollars in Washington?
Have you ever had to pay out of pocket expenses for chemotherapy? Would you deny a loved one medicine if the cost of it was $5000 per month? How long could you afford to pay that?
I’ve been in that situation, including with a loved one who was insured. This was before Obamacare… and I’m pretty sure big improvements haven’t happened since it became law.
On the recreation side… if marijuana was hard to get and grow, and if a business could possess all the rights to it, we would have had legal (federal) pot ages ago because that corporation would have lobbied for it. Snacks wouldn’t be facing this issue, unless he bought his stuff underground.
Just my humble opinion.
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I’m not as bent out of shape by it as others on here. He should’ve told Coach, so I guess that’ll get him in the end. That is a deal breaker, even though the “getting busted for pot” might’ve actually helped with recruiting.
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The health care in this country is expensive because of lawyers. Why do we pay so much for medications? Because sooner or later the pharma companies will get sued and a jury whose justification is, they have money, they ca afford it, will award a plaintiff a shit load of money. Do you know how much the average doctor has to pay for insurance? A huge amount because sooner or later he will be sued and the insurance company will have to fork out the money. Why do doctors order all these expensive test for the simplest of conditions? Because if they don’t they might end up being sued; it is called practicing defensive medicine…very sad indeed.
In the old days, most Americans used to believe that the best way to become successful and wealthy was getting a college degree and working hard. Now, according to many polls, American believe that the best and quickest ways to become successful and wealthy are winning a lawsuit or the lottery…oh, how times have changed.
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I believe that the long term relationship Coach Self has had with Snacks weighed heavily in the final decision.
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2-week suspension:
Kansas University men’s basketball assistant coach Jerrance Howard will serve a two-week suspension from all team activities as punishment for a July 2014 arrest for possession of marijuana, KU coach Bill Self announced Thursday afternoon. The suspension is effective immediately. – KUSports.com
Let the debate ensue
(in a civil way, of course… nods to @CivilHawk )
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@bskeet Fair enough.
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I know that is part of it… but you don’t think the AMA gives all those millions to Washington for the heck of it, do you? Costs are high because everyone involved in the process goes for full profit. Insurance companies, lawyers, hospitals, doctors (and their groups), pharma.
Capitalism is built on profiteering. I’m not against that. But who is in Washington lobbying for the consumer? Right… no one.
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The ABA makes the AMA look like pikers, plus most members of congress are lawyers in the first place.
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@bskeet said:
2-week suspension:
Kansas University men’s basketball assistant coach Jerrance Howard will serve a two-week suspension from all team activities as punishment for a July 2014 arrest for possession of marijuana, KU coach Bill Self announced Thursday afternoon. The suspension is effective immediately. – KUSports.com
Let the debate ensue
(in a civil way, of course… nods to @CivilHawk )I say, Fair!
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My first thought, before I got to the bottom of the thread was that JH should be let go for not telling his employer about the offense. If he had told them, there should have been a stiff penalty. You can’t punish the kids for testing positive without severely penalizing a coach that does the equivalent. As I thought more about it, I thought about how we are a 2nd chance society…I agreed with the comment above about how he should be proactive and enter some type of rehab. Then, I got to the bottom and read that he has been suspended. That doesn’t mean he won’t ultimately be let go, but I think that won’t happen. I think I am OK with that given other transgressions that have occurred and how others have been given 2nd chances. I know that not telling your employer takes it to another level, so I am conflicted.
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HR person here. Pretty certain that KU has dealt with similar employee issues in the past. Organizations have to deal out the same discipline to similar policy breakers regardless of their position. That said , Self as his manager can deliver his own unique thrashing. Oops should have typed message to JH.
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@Paloma What KU policy, if any, did he break? None of this occurred on campus.
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@drgnslayr First I’m glad to hear you’re a capitalist. Second, as my wife has worked as a chemo nurse over 20 years in both private practice and hospital, I’m well aware of horrors and the costs of chemo. I also know that while working in private practice she assisted patients in working with companies to get reduced charges for their treatments. I also know what she pays for malpractice insurance not only when she worked in private practice but even now in a hospital setting. If we didn’t have the litigation threat like many countries, we could bring drugs straight to market and sell them over the counter.
I’m sorry for your family experience with cancer and unfortunately most of us have had to deal with this terrible disease. All the best my friend.
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Am sure KU has a code of conduct that employees have to suffer thru annual training on. Probably has bullets on professional, truthful behavior and requires employees’ signature. Does not matter where the unacceptable behavior occurred–especially in this situation since he’s embarrassed the school along with himself and family. It’s easy to directly connect this issue to damaging his performance as well. Easy discipline decision.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’d give ya 100 thumbs up if I knew where to get them. That’s because we have an entire generation that is totally comfortable to live off of someone else’s hard work & sit at home to watch Judge Joe, Dr Phil & Oprah on self help TV. In other words they are just too friggin lazy to get off their ass. JMO
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@Paloma KU employees do not have annual training on code of conduct. I thought you worked at KU and had insight into some specific policy that JH violated.
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Thanks… We lost my mother-in-law to breast cancer. It was tough in all areas… emotional and financial. I don’t want to single out anything in particular… I just wish there was someone lobbying for us. I appreciate the efforts of your wife! Through all of this we met many people in the health industry that was very kind and as helpful as they possibly could be.
I know you are right on the money!
Sorry for venting this out in here.
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Checkout the Handbook for Faculty and other Unclassified Staff --section on committing an act that involves such moral turpitude as to render the faculty member unfit for his position. Not a KU employee but all organizations have behavior policies/standards.
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This gives new meaning to “Beware of the Phog”
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@wissoxfan83 good one!
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@wissoxfan83 PHOF !!
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No problem. I have had relatives that had cancer and I know how expensive it can be. My sister in law had the bone marrow transplant procedure at Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis, one of the very few places that will do it, and I know the bill for the stay was around $300K. Fortunately she worked for the Social Security Administration and her insurance plan covered just about all of it. She was cancer free for close to 10 years and then it came back and she was gone in a couple of months. Pretty sad.
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2 week suspension. Well, we might not see the rest of the story until fall…if, indeed, there will be further maneuvering. The thing that bothers me perhaps most: Has Snacks hidden other illegal actions from his head coach? Perhaps recruiting entanglements? This hoops program is colossal; much grander than the judgments or misjudgments of those currently placed in charge of maintaining its face and continued well being. The program has been burdened with a few player blemishes during the Self Years, but no more than on any other topflight Div. 1 campus, and fewer than most schools, it appears. (Heck, just take a look across the Kaw, current turmoil at MizZoo!) But a compound mistake by a second or third year assistant? YIKES! The World of Hoops is broad and expansive. Lotsa sites for Snacks to land with uncluttered runways; sites w/o the reputation or historical significance of Kansas Basketball. I understand that it is in timely best interest of Bill Self, the athletic dept. and the university to move quickly in an attempt to leap beyond this breaking news. Gonna be interesting, watching for further crescendo or denouement. I will be surprised if Snacks is still in Lawrence by June 2016. But for his longstanding relationship with Bill Self, he has stepped close to filling J.R. Giddens’ dusty Adidas sneakers.
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Interesting. I was visiting with a friend that works in HR and she indicated that depending on how his contract is written and who the contract is with, KU/AD might not be able to fire him…even if they wanted to. If he was fired, he could sue the KU/AD under the ADA since drug dependency can now be consider a “disability” and KU’s only recourse would b to send him to rehab (at KU’s expense. of curse) a few times before he can be fired…whatever happened to personal responsibility? It would certainty explain the relatively light punishment; certainly much cheaper than the alternative plus it gets the issue off the front pages and spares the program from further embarrassment.
