Sometimes Your Real Opponent Is the Schedule
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@jaybate-1.0 Sometimes there are said to be SPLINTERS in that grass.
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@jaybate-1.0 “…help my dad embalm Alf Landon.”??? You gotta be crappin’ us!
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Yep, I was telling a bit of a stretcher there coach and I’m going to add on it in a moment.
But first, honest, I’m with you on splendor AND splinters AND EVEN a Splendid Splinter.
But embalmin’ Landon was nothin, Coach!
I used to have to ride a J.C. Higgins balloon tired bike 40 years into the future and try to figure out which Kansas summer game coaches were rumored to be helping Self and which ones were rumored to be channeling players away from him and why? It was one helluva a long ride and no one would even try to explain it to me, and so I would have to ride back 40 years and begin reading all kinds of muck raking books about college basketball that Bobby Knight appeared to have been some kind of a force behind the scenes regarding. And then try to extrapolate them forwards for their never having been a clean up. And if I were late either way, I would lose my supper!!!
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@jaybate-1.0 did you ever read the Korleone story?
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Not yet, but I would still like to. What about it grabbed you so deeply?
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Saw him play in Vegas and heard a lot about him. Thought he had a lot of potential.
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I saw him play once on a televised McDonalds AA game, and thought he would be very good, but I am not a very good judge of players based on what they do in that sort of game.
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Young to me exemplifies a basic misunderstanding about what it takes to make it in basketball.
Josh Selby also exemplifies it.
Players and fans think playing basketball is solely about how talented, skilled and competitive one is.
But basketball is a business. It has always been a business at the NBA level. Now it is a business at the college level, and at the summer game level.
Most fans say basketball is a business but they don’t seem to really uderstand what that really means.
In the business world, every thing is about building relationships that get you access to opportunities to perform, to do what you do.
In business, being talented and skilled is kind of ante to the game.
One has to have enough talent and skill to make those in the business see some career benefit in relating with you–in associating with you.
In business, everything is a deal built upon an association, which is a constellation of relationships.
Basketball is just like any other business in this regard.
You have to be a talented and skilled player to make it into the basketball business.
But to stay their you have to be very skilled at building relationships and insightful enough to know that you need to work hard at building and maintaining those relationships.
Many young players and young coaches think that all you have to be is talented and skilled at either profession.
Young players especially think, well, if I can play with these pros in a work out, or at a camp, or what have you, that they are ready for the pros.
That is not enough.
A basketball player is a business man. He has to have a broad web of relationships to sustain his business. He has to build, or have, relationships with management, with coaches, with players, with media, and he has to have an effective business of his own that includes lawyers, agents, public relations, accountants, weight trainers, dieticians, investment advisors in securities, investment advisors in real estate, and so on. It is not enough for a player to go out and hire these types of professionals, he has to have the savvy to hire the right ones and to build strong, enduring relationships with them. If he doesn’t they will exploit him and steal from him, or compromise his best interests. Playing basketball at a high level is very difficult and demanding, but being a good business man while doing it is even more difficult. Building all of these relationships and knowing when hire more, fire some, or stand pat takes alot of skill. And no one just does this for players unless they literally take over the player and run him, and invariably, unless the player is a once in a generation player, they use him up and move on.
I am not expert enough on what it takes to play in the NBA from a basketball standpoint to know how many of the guys fail, because they just can’t play the game well enough. But I feel knowledgeable enough of business to say that probably most of the young basketball players that go to the NBA aren’t very good business men and really have to work hard at learning how to be. One of the ways to learn how to do that is to hang around a D1 program for serveral years and pick the brains of the former players in the NBA that return in the summer time, and the coach, if he is as savvy as Self, and the alum lawyers and business men that hang around the basketball players, and getting an education, and and so on.
Just like a person can learn a lot about how to play basketball in 4-5 years at a D1 program, a player can also learn a lot about how to be a basketball business man around a D1 program.
Frankly, Wiggins could have used serveral years at KU to get better at basketball, but he didn’t need to be at KU at all for basketball business, because his father had that all ironed out back in Ontario. He had long since schooled Andrew on how to be a basketball business man and build his business relationships and his father was acting as his partner. His father knew what he was doing every step of the way.
Joel Embiid’s father clearly did not. That is not a knock on his father. How could he? He was a security officer in Cameroon where they don’t even play ball. Joel’s advisors got him part way. They were smart enough to matriculate him to USA and to summer league and a basketball factory, and then to KU. But once the injury hit, they apparently convinced Joel to take the money and run, before Joel had a full array of business relationships built. This is apparently why Joel is having trouble during his injury rehab season. Joel has not been able to build and maintain good relationships with those he needs to have good relationships. None of this is about his basketball. Its about his business relationships. It appeared to me that Self implied that he felt some what outmaneuvered by Joel and his advisors. Not smart business on Joel’s part. Really good businessmen build such good relationships that even if they are screwing somone one the person getting screwed sees some advantage in not implying they have been screwed.
Good business men give good relationship.
Even the ones that can be jerks to so many are very savvy about knowing who they HAVE to have good relationships with.
Basketball players staying a year in college is arbitrary.
How long they should stay has less to do with how good they are as basketball players than it does with how good they are as basketball business men when they decide to go pro.
At least that’s my opinion from the outside looking in.
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@jaybate-1.0 I think the most important people in these kids lives are their parents-2 is better, but look at angel Morris. I’m hoping it’s to soon to tell about Embiid, that could change for the better. Obviously he grew up in a world far different than my kids. I can’t imagine going that long w/out family support. I also think our Jayhawks have a coach and staff that will advise them w/their best interests in mind!
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The first time I stepped on an NBA court I became a businessman. - LeBron James
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This is a daunting week but the good thing is we play 2 games in 3 days at Allen Fieldhouse.
I think if we can skate by Wednesday without being locked into a single possession game then we will be fine the rest of the way. It would be a major letdown to not play up to our level.
I can’t see why we would be worried about Kansas St at home. We’ve beaten them by an average of 21 points in the last 5 trips they have made to Allen. This isn’t a better team than any previous team that thought they could win here. If we play well, we will be resting our players in the 2nd half.
And our Monday opponent is still fresh in our minds having barely played them 2 weeks ago so I’m not worried about us being prepared. I am worried that our transition D could be as poor as it was in Ames because there won’t be much time to emphasize how important getting back is. We have a deep bench and hopefully we will have rested up our players enough to turn it up for Monday.
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@BeddieKU23 we also have a newly educated Cliff since ISU game. Hmmmm he caught on fast I’d say!
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I would not underestimate KSU, they have a knack for winning ta AFH and when KU is ranked high and they are not expected to compete; they are playing well with nothing to lose. I can see a 20+ win or a game that goes down to the wire…I am always leery of this type of games.
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@JayHawkFanToo I wasn’t scared of the purple kitties before the conference season has started and even though they haven’t beaten any top tier teams I do share some of your worry when we play against them. My fear is that we may look past them at ISU because they are in my eyes a bigger rival right now and definitely a bigger thorn in our side.
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I respectfully disagree. I would call Oklahoma (on the road) and Baylor (both top 25 teams) and Oklahoma State (fringe top 25) top tier teams and they lost to ISU in Ames by just about the same margin KU did…wouldn’t you agree?
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My apologies, I forgot that they beat OU in OT. Baylor and OSU have both been up and down they almost lost to Baylor. I guess I was focusing more on their struggles with bottom feeders, they barely beat TCU and TTU. Thank you for bringing those to my attention, you are right they have beaten some quality teams I was thinking more along the lines of us, ISU, and WVU the more consistent teams in the league so far. Post like yours are why I like this site better than the old one, disagreement can take place without confrontation.
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No need to apologize. As we get older we forget more, but on the other hand…
Happiness is nothing more than good health and a bad memory. - Albert Schweitzer
**The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time. **- Friedrich Nietzsche
and last but not least…
**A clear conscience is the sure sign of a bad memory. **- Mark Twain
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False, their last win in Allen was 2006, and if you include the big 12 tourney we have utterly dominated them other than 2 road losses on their court. We show up at home, its a blowout
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@JayHawkFanToo all great quotes, I would have to say I like the one by Nietzsche the best! Are you tuned into the KSU game right now?
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KSU lost and so did Baylor
- Kansas 5-1
- West Virginia 5-2
- Iowa State 5-2
- Kansas St 5-3
- Oklahoma St 4-4
- Baylor 3-4
- Texas 3-4
- Oklahoma 3-4
- TCU 1-5
- Texas Tech 1-6
OSU, Baylor,Texas and OU are probably 1 game away from being completely out of contention.
The losers of Texas-Baylor and OU-OSU are probably done title-wise. If KU beat KSU on Saturday, then I would say there is 90% chance that the conference winner will come from KU, ISU and WVU since ISU and WVU play Texas Tech and TCU at home and will likely win. The winner of the Monday night game between KU and ISU will be the favorite to win the conference even when only OSU and KSU have played 8 games (half the schedule) and the rest only 7 except for KU and TCU with only 6. If KU sweeps the next 3 games and moves to 8-1, I just don’t see any team catching up.
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January 2006 - Unranked KSU snaps a 31 game losing streak to KU and comes back from 12 points down in Lawrence to beat the team that 2 years later won the NCAA.Title
January 2008 - #22 KSU beats #2 ranked KU to break a 24 year losing streak in Manhattan. KU would go on to win the NCAA Title.
February 2011 - Unranked KSU beats #1 ranked KU at Bramlage.
February 2014 - Unranked KSU beats #6 KU at Bramlage
This is what I meant by unranked KSU teams beating highly ranked KU teams (#2, #1, #6) when they were not expected. to win. They also won in Lawrence on several occasion in the not too distant past including in 1988 when KU went to win the NCAA Title , that year they were 2-1 against KU prior to the NCAA Tournament and the next season they also were 2-1. KSU has nothing to lose and every thing to gain against KU next Saturday and they can and will be dangerous. Just sayin’
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Trial lawyers like Gerry Spense have shown much memory is a palimpsest.–jaybate 1.0
History is in fact written by winners and losers, but it is the winners that mostly decide which versions are taught in schools and published widely.–jaybate 1.0
He who controls the past controls the future. And he who controls the present controls the past.–George Orwell
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Your calling 1988 not to recent past, that’s 27 years ago. None of the players on this team were even thought of when that happened. I’m not trying to nick pick but we blow them out at home every time we have played them since 2007 season.
When we visit Bramlage, yes recently every game has been close regardless of their skill level. They have beaten us 3 times in 7 years and the others have been close battles. We would expect that on their court that a rival would play us to a tight game.
I just think some fans are overthinking Saturday’s game for more than its likely to be. Our fans will be turned up especially since it will have been almost 2 weeks without a home game and its the purple cats in town. But first things first we need a win @ TCU tonight before we can worry about how much we win saturday by.
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@JayHawkFanToo I watched both of those games last night. The KSU game was a slop fest from start to finish, all of the turnovers and fouls almost made it unwatchable. I think we should press KSU on Saturday they can easily be forced into some mistakes. I agree with your assessment that the losers of the OU-OSU and Texas-Baylor games are done title wise. If we keep playing with the same confidence we’ve been playing with I see no reason why we won’t be sitting at 8-1 and thus putting some distance between us and the field. We have to take care of business tonight we cant afford to look past TCU, they are a decent squad with a good coach and should have knocked off WVU. That foul call was questionable but before that they let WVU get off and unguarded 3 that was drilled. They will either be very hungry after a loss like that or come out deflated because they let one get away, either way we need to be on our toes.
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@jaybate-1.0 said:
“History is in fact written by winners and losers, but it is the winners that mostly decide which versions are taught in schools and published widely.–jaybate 1.0”
That is as true a statement as I’ve ever read. No one ever hears about the version of the losers. No one remembers who was second place they remember who was first. No one remembers who was behind us in the current streak of titles only that we have one 10 consecutive. This is the version that everyone knows. Very true words indeed. Well said!
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I thought the same thing about KSU in pressing them Saturday. They looked horrible against pressure, Marcus Foster was comical in-bounding the ball. I think I saw him throw to WVU 3-4 times with no chance of his teammate getting the ball. They also had a bunch of Shaq’s out there bricking FT’s. 15 missed bunnies will do every-time in a loss. Gives us a clue what we will see in a few weeks with West Virginia. They force turnovers and Staten is the key to everything they do on offense. Those 2 perfect storms win them games and we will have to negate both to win either matchup down the road.
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Basketball is definitely a business, but that is why it is important for those in the business to have strong people around them, especially when they are young.
Wiggins was able to move to the pro game because his dad was a pro and his mom was an athlete, too. That smoothed the transition for Wiggins big time. That’s similar in a lot of ways to how Kobe Bryant grew. His dad was a pro, so Kobe didn’t need the time in college to learn things like good practice habits, how to take care of himself, etc. He grew up watching that.
For a lot of players, though, they don’t grow up watching that, but they are also too skilled for it to matter before they become a pro. That’s where the talent and business overlap. At the collegiate level, talent matters more than business, because there are some players that have so much talent, they can’t really develop at the college level because there isn’t enough resistance to cause real growth. Kelly Oubre needed that resistance to grow, but there is almost no way he’s at KU more than a couple of years because the game will get too easy for him at the college level if he stays beyond that.
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@BeddieKU23 those FT’s they were missing weren’t even close! Gibson was leaving his al short like they barely reached the front of the rim. They had no legs in the second half. We can do the same thing tot hem, we have the depth and the horses to do it. Devonte and Kelly will wreak some havoc against them, they both have long arms to intercept passes in addition to the ones that Marcus Foster will be gifting us
And you are right about WVU, if Devonte and Frank handle the press as well as they did against Texas and we can (pardon my French) stay in Staten’s ass, we will shut them down.
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I am not sure if you mean to oversimplify, or if you are just using shorthand because you are familiar with business, but for those not familiar with business probably you are, regardless. It was NOT enough for Wiggins father to have played in the NBA, or his mother to have been an athlete. What was crucial was that one, or both of them, understood the business of basketball.
I have never read well documented percentages, but I suspect a significant percentage of NBA professionals, even in this high paid era, wind up getting fleeced out of their monies, and having short careers, significantly due to their lack of training in how to build a basketball business.
Someone above posted a quote above by Lebron indicating that he recognized the day he joined the NBA he was in business. That signals insight on his part. But insight is not necessarily enough. One has to commit to the mastery of technique of business to capitalize on that insight.
Just as a few combine great natural ability in basketball with a commitment to mastering the technique of the game, some few are also born with great natural ability for business, but they too must commit to mastery of business technique,
Great business men build enduring relationships that are productive and let go of those that are destructive.
Wiggins father having been in the NBA could have meant that he was another chump with no business sense that got exploited by the business of basketball.
But so far, it appears more likely that Mr. Wiggins, and/or his wife, committed to the mastery of the basketball business once they understood their son’s extraordinary abilities and Andrew has benefitted substantially so far. But eventually, the business is going to be Andrew’s, and I believe behind his polite public disposition is a young man learning the business as fast as he can.
Regarding your comment that many players, if not most, do not grow up around such parents as Andrew did: that is essentially the point of my post; that because they do not, these young men need to be taught/mentored by coaches, returning players, and trustworthy alums that the reason to stay on at KU as long as maybe required is to learn what relationships need building, and how to build them, to be ready to be a business.
I am not picking on basketball in particulary here. It is a phenomenon of most professional fields that require a high degree of ability and commitment to mastery of technique that our university programs do not prepare them much, if at all, for the business of their professions.
The greatest irony of all, in fact, is that business schools, especially graduate business schools where a high technical education usually occurs, are particularly bad at preparing their students for the “business of business.”
Regarding Kelly Oubre, he was just injured early and when he got well he got on a little hot streak from three that obscured his deficiencies until the other coaches saw that he could not reliable hit FTs, or the trey, and now we are seeing what his shortcomings are. Of course he needs to stay another year, or two, to become a proficient player, but here again, basketball proficiency is actually probably easier to develop in the pros than basketball business proficiency is.
The worst case scenario for any D1 player going pro early is being deficient both in his game and in his basketball business abilities. It ear marks him for a sucker to be exploited. If one lacks the insight to know one’s game is incomplete, and the insight to have built a basketball business apparatus in preparation for going pro, the sharpies will figure that one lacks the insight for knowing the difference between hustlers and serious professionals he will need for his basketball business.
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There were several other times in between 1988 and now. I just mentioned the recent time when they were not supposed to beat us (KU highly ranked, KSU not) and yet they did. BTW, KU is ranked #9 and KSU is not ranked…just sayin’…that’s all.
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The KSU-WVU game was painful to watch…Huggy said he loved it!
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That’s the case with most Big 12 teams we play. KU high ranked vs unranked conference foe. All our losses get overblown because we have dominated for so long its truly a David vs Goliath situation with all 9 teams. This year is obviously different with a lot of strong squads, the re-configured big 12 has trimmed the fat from struggling schools like we had in A&M, Colorado, Nebraska, and Mizzsucky even had its lean years. A loss to TCU is overblown still 2 years later and mostly from comments our own coach made.
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@JayHawkFanToo He loves mudding it up! Maul ball as some call it, we better come ready to get dirty when we play them.
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Is it too late to have Mr. Ben Heeny and a couple of other football players to walk on?
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@JayHawkFanToo hahahah! Unfortunately, I think it is too late, but boy would that be awesome to see Heeney out on the court manhandling people.
