Calling @justanotherfan and @HighEliteMajor
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@BShark Yes, I agree, I’ve had younger inner city kids as a foster parent and they are great. Some them had major issues but I worked with them. Most of them need to be taught how to act and right from wrong. They need loved, if your parents don’t care if you go to jail or skip school. Why should you? Most them don’t have role models or even parents around in general.I grew up poor in broken homes. We can break cycle together, I’ll never give up on helping kids.
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The point of this board was originally to offer a place to talk KU hoops without having to provide your identity to Facebook.
So, in that origin story there are two things being championed:
- a love of Kansas basketball
- a love of freedom
The decision to expand the opportunity for discussion into politics (among the other buckets we added over time) is in line with the second reason for our origin.
I believe the stigma against political discussion as a country has not been good for us. I believe we should be able to discuss and debate anything and still be able to coexist and appreciate each other. I believe now more than ever we need to learn how to not be polarized and pit against others who see things differently. And given this, and the fact that the whole political section can be ignored, I think it’s a good thing to have.
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@kjayhawks said in Calling @justanotherfan and @HighEliteMajor:
@BShark Yes, I agree, I’ve had younger inner city kids as a foster parent and they are great. Some them had major issues but I worked with them. Most of them need to be taught how to act and right from wrong. They need loved, if you parents don’t care if you go to jail or skip school. Why should you? Most them don’t have role models or even parents around in general.I grew poor in broke in homes. We can break cycle together, I’ll never give up on helping kids.
Yessir. I’m helping a couple kids right now. They just need to know someone cares. Blows them away that I care since their own mother and father don’t!
I grew up poor as well.
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@approxinfinity said in Calling @justanotherfan and @HighEliteMajor:
I believe the stigma against political discussion as a country has not been good for us. I believe we should be able to discuss and debate anything and still be able to coexist and appreciate each other. I believe now more than ever we need to learn how to not be polarized and pit against others who see things differently. And given this, and the fact that the whole political section can be ignored, I think it’s a good thing to have.
Great point. This is part of what I was trying to get at with the diversions and unity comment. We need to come together as a nation and fix our big issues. Blocking the conversation only helps the powers that be maintain the status quo.
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@HighEliteMajor and I had it out at one point, but we moved on, and continued to have good discussions. That whole sequence was a positive thing for me. I don’t want to live in a bubble. I want to see things as they are and hear the other voices. Everyone comes from a place where they think they are right. It’s important to discover WHY they think they are right, not just tear down what they think if I don’t agree.
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@BShark yep, once they realize they don’t have to have those parents or other bad influences lives. It opens a door, and they as you said believe no one cares. I told myself when I was about 8 years old that my kids would never be in the position I was in and they won’t.
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@kjayhawks That’s great that you do that. It’s a huge need.
@approxinfinity I wasn’t complaining, just making an observation!
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@wissox oh I know man. This need for dialogue has just been on my mind. Like @BShark, I’ve been a little depressed about the state of humanity recently.
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@approxinfinity Might I say, TV is not a reflection of society. Don’t let them fool you. I have over 2 dozen clients each having several people who work for them and every single one of them is a good person. There are so many decent and good people here I don’t have to work for the ones that I don’t find agreeable, much less think are bad people. And thankfully the jerk neighbor I had moved away. Might I suggest a relocation if you’re down and out about folks you deal with? If it’s just the media…well those idiots couldn’t find their buttholes with both hands and a mirror. Damn fear mongerers know how to rile folks up to make a buck.
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@dylans So my issue isn’t that most people are bad. I think most people are at the least, products of their environment, and at best, good.
I am concerned that our young people don’t know the difference between picking a winner (for example, Duke basketball) and deciding who to root for, based on their own criteria. In this age of being spoon-fed opinions on everything, from product reviews to commentary on everything, we are blatant consumers who cannot think for ourselves.
Things like that.
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@approxinfinity I have found that the next generation is always the one who is going to ruin everything. Luckily when we were the next generation we didn’t live up to those expectations either. They come into their own and we come to accept them for who they are. But if you want to lean towards doom and gloom we only took 2 centuries to get to basically the same debaucherous place the Roman Empire took 14 to get to.
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@approxinfinity I think with each passing decade this has gotten worse. I think it has a ton of factors. First off parents don’t get a chance to raise their kids as much because both parents are working these days. When my parents grew it was odd to see such a thing now with the cost of living it’s the opposite. I’m friends with thousands of people on Facebook I believe 3 have stay at home spouses. This also the reason TV sets and electronic devices are used to raise kids because parents are tired. I don’t see any kids at the park anymore when I drive by, 20 years ago we were playing football and basketball at the park. Sometimes in the snow and rain.
I think there is a huge difference in people born in the 80s and early 90s then kids born after. I’ve worked 3 places most my professional career and we have hired younger kids age 16-24 for several odd jobs. Every single one hasn’t lasted and has zero work ethic, literally everyone (not saying hard working ones don’t exist). They don’t want to climb the ladder, they want to start at the top. They don’t want to sweat or go hard to earn anything. They spend half their days on cell phones. When I was 22 I was working 2 jobs most the time and bought a house. I worked my tail of to have a decent life. The American dream right now has changed from hard work pays off . They don’t want to work hard, they don’t want to build stuff they just want money to buy stuff.
I do think most people are good but I think people are too political these days and it’s causing separation. I have zero idea what political party my parents or grandparents voted with. I don’t remember them fussing about who was in office. Back in the day people didn’t identify with who they voted for 4 years. Now people ride whomever they voted for coattails and that said person can do no wrong. I’d go back to the 80s and 90s to raise my kids if I could.
I will also add that I think schools are teaching kids to think a certain way. They are taught one thing and it’s the only way. New articles come out daily about teachers saying and teaching negative stuff about Trump. It’s perfectly fine to be against him, I don’t blame anyone that is. But their is zero reason to push your political agenda on grade school level students and those who do should be fired immediately. I honestly don’t think it should be pushed at the college unless it’s a politics class. I just had a friend that has sent 4 children to KU and his eldest just transferred because he got tired of hearing political BS in his classes and rhetoric that republicans and anyone that’s not a democrat is evil. I have no idea if it’s true but I’ve heard rumors of such for years. Zero place for that IMO, let them think for themselves.
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@kjayhawks I agree with you on all the reasons you mentioned contributing to kids not being able to form their own opinions: electronics raising them, less kids at the park, 2 working parents. I’d add that parents play on their cell phones as well; it’s not just that they’re tired. Sports are a more formal process now, it feels like. We are in organized sports, but we don’t get together for pick up ball yet. I’m hoping that’s still a thing as my kids get a little older. It was huge for me, every day after school.
As for work ethic, I have a few 20 somethings that work with me in the IT industry. Most of them have decent work ethic but their analytical skills need encouragement. Mostly, I think this is just a product of age and experience, and they’re on track with where I was at their age. It’s not like that everywhere. I think in terms of physical labor, kids are definitely less inclined to work hard.
So, I do want to say gently the positives I see from the democrats this debate season as it relates to your points, as I’ve watched them very intently. Most of the democrats seem very in line with your appreciation for hard work. Warren (daughter of a maintenance man who had a heart attack when she was 12), Klobuchar (daughter of a newspaper writer, granddaughter of a coalminer) and Biden (father was a used-car salesman) all came from modest backgrounds that they speak a lot about. Bernie’s dad was an immigrant and a paint salesman. He doesn’t talk about it much. Buttigieg’s parents were professors at New Mexico State. These guys value the importance of protecting the middle class. They understand the importance of the American dream. As an aside, even Tom Steyer’s heart seems to be in the right place, despite being a billionaire. He doesn’t talk about it, but his dad was a lawyer who prosecuted Nazi’s in the Nuremburg Trials for war crimes.
I tell kids to work hard, and I tell them to work smart. People will ride you in this country, like the horse (Boxer?) in Orville’s Animal Farm. They’ll use you up until you die. The sense of “an honest day’s pay for an honest day’s work” is disappearing. It’s not just about employers, it’s a social contract. People will buy the cheapest thing with a decent review on Amazon. They have no idea about the ethics behind the product they’re purchasing. And this kind of mindset I think in everywhere, including when you hire someone to do a job for you. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s hard to derive pride in your work when you know people (often with no disposable income) see quality as secondary to cost.
We need to restore the middle class. And it’s important to look at the economy’s health not in terms of its net value, but in terms of it’s median value for every American. Again, I believe a lot more in the democrats in this regard than Donald Trump. I don’t trade stocks. My house has appreciated in value, but that means higher taxes, and once the housing market crashes (which it inevitably will, as the appreciation is entirely unwarranted) I will just have spent more on taxes for several years.
I see employers moving towards the gig economy, the further commodification of workers as interchangeable, disposable assets. I think many of the young folk that you speak of simply don’t believe the ladder exists for them to climb. At least, its not about devotion to a single company. And I can’t blame them.
I also think that entrepreneurial efforts are harder now. At least that is my perception. If you can’t rise working hard for someone else, and you can’t rise working hard for yourself, then you either work hard regardless, without hope for financial mobility, or you just slide on by with less effort, just trying to enjoy life, or you try to pull one over on someone. We certainly need the American Dream.
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I am sorry so many are getting so disillusioned. Might I suggest cutting cable or possibly a change of scenery. Less is more when it comes to happiness I’ve found. As in less outside influence impacting your personal happiness - let the mob be mad; don’t join in.
I’m not going into politics here as this is not that section. But as for work ethic in the late 90s at a couple physical labor type jobs I had, I was always complimented as hard working - meaning not everyone else was hard working in the 90s either. Successful people have a work ethic. Whiners wonder why hard workers succeed while they stay in the same place. The good thing is those people need bosses and ditches will alway need dug…
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This discussion makes me think of Steve Turner’s serious but amusing “creed”…excerpt:
We believe that man is essentially good.
It’s only his behavior that lets him down.
This is the fault of society.
Society is the fault of conditions.
Conditions are the fault of society.
We believe that each man must find the truth
that is right for him.
Reality will adapt accordingly.
The universe will readjust.
History will alter.
We believe that there is no absolute truth
excepting the truth
that there is no absolute truth…
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I’ve been gone for awhile. I’ve been okay, though. Part of it was being fairly busy with work and family things.
The other part was frustration with some of the topics/commentary that was going on that had shifted from enriching debate to something else.
I saw a particular topic that bothered me. I was about to respond, but I happened to be at home at the time and caught a glimpse of a picture of me and my wife. I looked around the room and saw pictures of family and other reminders of how much I have been blessed and it reminded me of all of the good things going on in my life despite that topic being on an internet message board. I decided not to respond and logged off.
I hadn’t logged on since then for a lot of reasons, not really related to this board or the people on it. Moreso related to being busy, a couple of health scares in the family (all good now, but a bit concerning at the time) and the normal things in life.
I will admit that stepping away from the board helped me gain a bit more perspective.
I probably won’t engage in the political stuff much on here, but I should be back on about basketball more consistently.
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@justanotherfan I’m so glad u r back, I value your opinion! I hope you know most of us here always have your back. Glad the health problems are back to normal, I think a few on here have had some.
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A couple of things that came up as I was reading through this section.
- While a lot of folks fear the next generation will destroy us, as someone who works with kids every single day, I truly believe they are more likely to save us. They are certainly way more thoughtful, driven, and compassionate than I was at their age.
- As an educator it is an unfortunate truth that our education system has failed many young people and those young people being failed are disproportionately boys of color, low income, and in inner cities (and in that order). Our current school system was created to produce good workers to work in manufacturing jobs that required little critical thinking. Schools are authoritarian systems, with bells telling you when to move and what to do and in no way reflect the current job market like they did when that shift was made.
- The value of experiencing the world and the wide range of views within it cannot be overstated. I was at a funeral recently in a small Kansas town at a very conservative church. When asked by an older gentleman what I did, I told him I was a teacher. He scoffed and shook his head and began to rant at me about how terrible kids were these days and how much harder my job is now a days because of drugs. I responded that hadn’t been my experience and left it at that. I asked family later about this man and was told he had lived in this small town all his life and never really traveled or been outside of his little bubble. I felt nothing but pity for this man who clearly crafted all of his views based on what he saw on TV (I won’t mention the specific channel but you probably already know). He has no idea that kids today are experimenting with drugs at a lesser rate and at older ages, putting of sex until in committed relationships and at older ages, and so many other things that he couldn’t possibly imagine.
- I totally agree that the “good people don’t talk about politics” is what got us to this extremely polarized place politically. I would add the “I don’t see race I just see people” is equally as dangerous. And one thing I do agree with @HighEliteMajor about is that we need to be talking more about race, not less.
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Whoa, we got into our feelings here!
@justanotherfan Glad to see you back brotha.
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@justanotherfan Welcome back. I’m very glad to hear that your family health matters are all OK. I “need to breathe” sometimes too. I find myself getting way too worked up about what anonymous people say and think. I don’t think I get that worked up in “real life”, so I sure as heck shouldn’t do it here. Maybe we all ought to take a sabbatical once in a while and, like you, reflect on what’s really important.
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We should all focus on these Jayhawks. Rumor has it that they’re pretty good this year.
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@rockchalkwyo said in Calling @justanotherfan and @HighEliteMajor:
We should all focus on these Jayhawks. Rumor has it that they’re pretty good this year.
I have heard that we are, in fact, good.
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@justanotherfan glad you’re doing ok. Thanks for letting us know. I’ve missed your analysis as the team has really come together in conference play. What a fun time to watch the Jayhawks!
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@BShark said in Calling @justanotherfan and @HighEliteMajor:
@kjayhawks said in Calling @justanotherfan and @HighEliteMajor:
@BShark Yes, I agree, I’ve had younger inner city kids as a foster parent and they are great. Some them had major issues but I worked with them. Most of them need to be taught how to act and right from wrong. They need loved, if you parents don’t care if you go to jail or skip school. Why should you? Most them don’t have role models or even parents around in general.I grew poor in broke in homes. We can break cycle together, I’ll never give up on helping kids.
Yessir. I’m helping a couple kids right now. They just need to know someone cares. Blows them away that I care since their own mother and father don’t!
I grew up poor as well.
In the same boat you are!
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@justanotherfan some of us should probably take a lesson on that. Glad to see you post man.
