3 small steps forward, one gigantic step backwards...
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You guys don’t think Frank was good tonight? 8/15 (4/6 for 3), 3 reb, 2 asst, 3 st, 20 pts 5 TO’s. Yes, the TO’s were high, the assists were low… but the rest of the team was non-existant. I give big props to Frank for showing up all game. I think he played about 37 minutes…
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For those who want to forget the UK defeat this gives us a lot to think about since this was much worse. Who gives the east end of a rat heading west about OAD/TAD. There wasn’t one on the floor for Temple and they made us look like a junior high team. From what I could see the only people who look like they could play beyond a CYO league were Mason and Oubre.
So much for the clamor of Cliff starting. WOW!! That was impressive. A great example was with about 3 min left Cliff had inside position on a not very impressive Owl but didn’t get a body on him (I guess OADs don’t need to do that) and the rebound was taken away.
Brannen was another example of what went wrong. He hits a 3 in the first half and on the next play on the other end of the court he wanders away from his man who then puts in a 3. What the hell difference does it make if someone makes a boat load of 3s and then watches the game on the other end.
I have been a big Selden fan but the next time I see him shoot a finger roll layout I am going to puke. He and Svi seem to think that if you can roll the ball to hit the front of the rim that you get something.
Boy Perry was really good tonight. Other than shooting a face up jumper he does not appear to be able to shoot without spinning. That becomes really hard to to defend. When he is going left simply wait for the spin to the right and stuff it. He also needs to take the ball to the basket with some authority. In the first half there was a play where he gets a rebound and Temple is not really in position to do much. Unfortunately there was a player who was about his height within 3 feet so the ball gets pitched back outside. For crying out loud, it isn’t possible to get the ball closer to the basket for a supposed PF.
Inside out, outside in doesn’t really make much difference when you play like we did tonight. The only thing that approximated KU basketball was Frank going to the basket and Kelly and his ability to follow a miss and get up quick.
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@approxinfinity That just about says it all.
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They just started their xmas vacation early. Merry xmas to all, and to all, a good nite.
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I really feel for coach Self right now. He just witnessed his best post player go 1-10 from the field and look completely overmatched and ineffective – against just average players. Really, all of our post players were completely useless. We couldn’t score inside at all, we couldn’t grab rebounds, and we couldn’t stop anything inside. This was just unreal.
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@KUSTEVE Well said.
With this non-con schedule, I’ll take 9-2 and try to forget the margins of defeat. Hope the guys are hungry when it counts, hope Self irons out the kinks in some lineups that did not work tonight, and hope we get a commitment to D and rebounding for conference play.
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Like you said, other than scoring all his other stats were down. TOs and assists are the ones that determine how well he is directing the offense and they just were not there.
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@JayHawkFanToo Well the rest of the team other than Kelly was 6/33. Kelly was 4/8 and those were basically stick backs on his own misses. So if Mason got 2 assists on 6 made baskets, who knows how many of the 27 missed shots should have been assists.
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@JayHawkFanToo A giant leap backwards. As putrid as was the offense - and it stunk - the defense was even worse. Temple is, or at least was, one of the worse offensive efficiency teams in D1. Ranked 240 or so in scoring and 350! In FG percentage. But, they sliced through us like a hot knife through butter. Terrible fundamentals - can’t keep guys in front of them and help defense is half assed effort at best. Offense not much better. Second game in a ow where he has been a complete non-factor - actually a negative presence. Has to be the biggest disappointment in D1 relative to preseason hype so far. Has no concept how to create space or use ball/head fakes. And, he wasn’t going against L&Aguys. Our other Wooden ‘candidates’ aren’t far behind. But other than that, Merry Christmas…
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The Most interesting team in the world.
KU doesn’t always lose but when they do, they get blown out.
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Very frustrating to see the lack of effort yet again. It takes ZERO TALENT to go after a loose ball or to block out your man for a rebound. Absolutely no talent required.
During the UK game, getting out rebounded probably cost 10 to 15 points. Very disappointed that Self has not instilled in these guys who are McDonalds All Americans the effort required to simply get a rebound. My coaches in middle and high school would of had coronaries if we had given the same type of effort.
Again, its just disappointing when KU has the vastly superior team in terms of coaching and talent and yet gets outhustled by inferior teams like UNI and VCU (sorry to bring those up). I am fine if we are outmanned or outcoached in a game. I can live with that. What I get frustrated with is getting outhustled, out toughed, or repeatedly trying to lay the ball in instead of just dunking it. How many points are they leaving on the court by not dunking?
Why is Alexander being soft? I thought he was supposed to have a motor and outhustle everyone to rebounds? Havent really seen that this year at all.
Don’t get me started either on the poor effort on defense.
There is something to be said about playing with a sense of urgency all game long.
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@DoubleDD Definitely PHOF!!! Sad but true unfortunately.
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First off, I take full responsibility for this loss… I was going to wear my traditional KU hoody to watch the game but it was in the wash. I told myself it was just a stupid superstition, but boy was I wrong! I think it caused a force field around the basket repelling our shots.
And second, it’s actually a good thing to get shellacked like this as I was starting to obsess on this team and spend inordinate amounts of time looking for things to read about them. But with a spanking worse than the UK one, out of self-preservation I have to curb my enthusiasm. Which is a good thing because I had totally blown off editing my book in the little spare time I have.
I knew there was a silver lining somewhere. Ack.
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After all of the post Lafayette analysis, which can now be deposited in the nearest dumpster, the only thing to do after this serious butt-kicking is to have a good laugh and drink another 6-pack. Cheers ya’ll.
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@JayHawkFanToo I love frank, but his D wasn’t as good as usual either.
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@DinarHawk it wasn’t just the Mickey D’s!
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I just returned from the LSU-College of Charleston game. LSU dominated C of C just like Temple did us. It was no different.
I don’t know how we can go out to Georgetown and beat a good team like them, and not even threaten a bad team like Temple.
The only good news is no one from this team is going to turn pro unless they’re fools.
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@wissoxfan83 but maybe we need to replace them anyway!! Need a footer!
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@Crimsonorblue22 What amazes me about Calipari is that he is able to get his players to hustle and gel even though his teams are composed mostly of freshman. I just wish that Self could learn how to get the guys to always play with energy.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Agreed. We desperately need a rim protector.
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@DinarHawk I can’t understand how a kid that wants to play in the nba, can’t find his own desire and energy!!! I also can’t understand how a kid that wants to start and get more minutes, is late to weights?
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@Crimsonorblue22 You’d think that they would be giving 110% every second on the court but that is not the case.
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I guess for many season we were absolutely spoiled by bigs that in many ways we took for granted. The twins, Aldrich, TRob, Withey and Embiid were beasts inside, be it at scoring or defending and we always assumed that new player would replace them, after all KU is Big Man U, right?
We really don’t have any reliable bigs. Ellis is a SF playing out of position as PF. Alexander is starting to look like a tweener, not big or strong enough (at least not yet) to play PF and not a a good enough shooter to play SF; same situation with Traylor. Lucas and Mickelson are Mid-Major level starters but not good enough, at least not that I have consistently seen, to start for a top tier team.
KU has better potential on the perimeter and I believe Coach Self knows that this year and against better competition, KU will have to live and die by the outside shooting and penetration; today the shots were not falling and there was no help inside. I have to admit that Temple made some shots that even their coach could not believe went in, but regardless, KU should not have been in a position of having to play catch up. It had a good chance in the second half when it cut the lead to 6 with 17 minutes to play only to go frigid cold and Temple upped the lead to 15 in the next 4 minutes and that was pretty much the game.
Here is a story by Eamonn Brennan that presents a less emotional and perhaps more objective view of what this loss means. Deep inside I know that he is probably right, but the loss is still too fresh to get any consolation. I will mop some more this evening and hopefully in the morning I will see it a little less harshly.
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I can’t really pile too much on Ellis. He almost NEVER gets an easy bucket inside. Opposing coaches all now know the way to stop him is to frustrate him by collapsing the defense around him when he gets the ball.
So–even though we all know this defensive plan–Mason forces the ball into Perry who initiates his spin cycle, three defenders surround him and yet the remaining two opponents manage to cover our other four players who are standing like statues apparently mesmerized by Perry’s spin moves. Rinse and repeat. Gotta pound the ball inside.
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Cheer up, some of our best teams have had horrible losses. Not a fan of small lineups to start the game. I will referred to this game as: “Perry Anna Jones and the Temple of Doom”. It was a show I never hope to see again. Oh well, can’t wait to the next game!
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@JayHawkFanToo Many thanks. Excellent post!
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@Crimsonorblue22 looks like a little success went to their heads. Welcome back to reality, lots of room for improvement from everyone.Mason is a real fighter.
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@DoubleDD **The Most interesting team in the world.
KU doesn’t always lose but when they do, they get blown out.
**Stay thirsty, my friend.
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Ouch, no really that hurt. What a bad bad game.
You could sense it from the opening 3 minutes. Heck you knew with 15 minutes left the game was already over. Missed dunks, pansy attempts at the rim, dribble off the foot 3 times (maybe exaggerating a little but you get the point). In hindsight it wasn’t very good game to schedule 2 days after a home game, but this is the same in Big 12 play. We’ll have a home game and then Monday comes we are on the road in a hostile environment.
The game boiled down to 2 things. Missed shots and turnovers. You can’t miss everything under the sun and turn the ball over what 10 times in the first 10 minutes of the game. Effort wasn’t there, but to lose by nearly 30 points again is unfathomable. Will this happen again? It’s likely because when things don’t go well the guys just don’t compete. At least we have the winter break to improve and learn from this debacle.
The one bright spot, Frank Mason. What a shooter he is becoming. He can’t do it alone, Perry and Wayne need to get their head straight. Oubre was fine, I liked his effort for the most part.
Is #11 in trouble? We will see how we respond next week
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@JayHawkFanToo My exact thoughts about being blessed with the big men before this year. Going on the road cross country to play a team of Seniors with a group of Freshmen and Sophomores with our one Junior having the worst night of his career, when our shots aren’t falling equals blowout. Even the announcers commented on Greene’s poor defensive ability, as he followed his man twice around a screen to watch a layup. Greene’s defense ability seemed scouted by the other team. I don’t want to pick on him, but we are going into conference play against the #1 RPI rated schools to play on the road against teams foaming at the mouth to play us. The quality coaches in our league can’t wait for revenge after 10 straight years of having the Withey’s and Embid,s and Aldrich’s ruin their plans. Nike is loving this.
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@DanR The key for Ellis is expanding his bag of tricks.
Remember Simien and Marcus? Both had pretty sweet fade away shots, and turn around jumpers. The simple problem with Ellis is that defenders do not have to respect him beating them going backward.
Ellis is just easy to defend when well scouted.
Opposing coaches are attacking his spin move and closing up the space. You’ve got this one diagnosed pretty well.
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I Read the comments on KUSports and I am so glad that KU Buckets gave us a home.
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My mood wasn’t helped while watching the Badgers game and hearing Bill Walton say Calipari is a class act.
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@HighEliteMajor said:
Remember Simien and Marcus? Both had pretty sweet fade away shots, and turn around jumpers. The simple problem with Ellis is that defenders do not have to respect him beating them going backward.
I’ve been beating that drum for the last 3 years. Everything about Perry’s skillset says he should be a better version of Marcus Morris. Instead, he struggles against the sorts of defenders that Marcus would routinely embarrass by using his footwork, touch, and turnaround J. George Niang is a full inch shorter and could barely clear a broom handle in his first two years at ISU, but he has a turnaround and a fallaway hook that allowed him to still get looks against the likes of Jeff Withey and Joel Embiid. THIS is where losing Danny Manning has killed us in terms of what our big men can do. Norm Roberts has delivered the goods on the recruiting trail, but he just can’t develop bigs the way Manning could.
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It is really a catch 22 situation with Ellis. I indicated before the season and continue to believe that Perry is a natural SF playing out of position at the PF. However, he is the only “somewhat” reliable big we have (he leads the team ion scoring and rebounding) and we have plenty of other players that can also play the SF but not the PF position, so Coach Self has no choice but to play him inside hoping he can score and rebound. At this point it is a craps shoot figuring out if “Good KU” or “Bad KU” will show up; has the team played one entire good game so far? It seems to play one half at the time and badly needs to acquire consistency and put together complete games.
The conference is going to be brutal this year, not only because KU has some glaring weaknesses but also other teams are greatly improved. The conference has 5 teams in the top 20 in one poll and in 5 teams in the top 25 in the other poll; that is fully 50% of the teams; 4 other teams are receiving or have also received votes and Texas Tech is the only conference team that has not…no other conference comes even close to it.
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@JayHawkFanToo where will we drop to?
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It depends how voters see the loss. If they see it as not important (as Brennan of ESPN does) then 3 or 4 spots, otherwise upper teens?
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A fair perspective on the Big 12 power ranking.
http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2014/12/23/7440761/big-12-basketball-weekly-power-rankings
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I agree. Texas has all the pieces in place to win the conference, provided they can put said pieces together. If KU wants the Conference Title, it will really have to earn it; no gimmes this year. The conference is loaded with 7 teams in the top 25 as per Ken Pomeroy.
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I am glad to see that for the most part the posts on kubuckets are pretty reasonable. We are all of course disappointed and a bit concerned as you should not lose to an unranked team by 25 if you are KU. But hey, it happens. Unfortunately I read a number of posts on kusports and the negativity was incredible. “Season is over”. “May not make the tournament”. “No help on the way for next season either”. What is wrong with people? We got beat and it was awful and terrible but now we aren’t going to make the tournament? Give me a break. This may not be the 2008 team but we are going to be fine…exposed or not.
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@joeloveshawks Actually, I see this loss as pro forma. In every single season Self has coached KU (try saying that 10 times fast), he’s dropped one game that was just a complete ‘WHAT THE HELL’ kind of loss. Last year, it was WVU (or arguably Stanford, but they weren’t as bad as their seeding). Before that, TCU. Before that, Davidson. Before that, VCU, then UNI, UMass, OSU, Oral Roberts, Bradley, Bucknell, and finally Nebraska. If it happens before March, there’s this massive freak out, but we usually do pretty well in the dance. It’s the years where that game happened during the dance that are frustrating. I’d much rather be experiencing this right now.
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“…three defenders surround him and yet the remaining two opponents manage to cover our other four players who are standing like statues apparently mesmerized by Perry’s spin moves.”
Remnant behavior from last year when it was Wiggins they were all watching.
Is it legal for players to have a sack of popcorn with them on the court? You won’t find better seats in the house…
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@konkeyDong Exactly. You could even expand on this list if you wanted to. Also, this is not a Bill Self issue or a KU issue. Duke, Arizona, Cuse, UNC and all of the big boys (maybe not UK the last few years) have at least one game where they fall asleep and get embarrassed. It is just part of the long season that is college ball. The TCU game was FAR worse than this and that was a superior and far more senior KU squad. Don’t lose faith!!
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" I indicated before the season and continue to believe that Perry is a natural SF playing out of position at the PF."
He is a SF… he’ll never have a chance in the NBA as a PF, not even for a second. And he is getting his butt kicked in D1 at the PF.
But there is no reason why a guy his size can’t score inside. There have been much smaller guys that score a lot better than Perry can inside. His skill-set is one that he brought with him to Kansas. A skill-set that was developed against smaller players. He should be working on a totally different skill-set in D1.
There are four ways of scoring on a post player in the paint:
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Take the ball (and body) into the defender and elevate - this is what you do to draw contact and a foul. The defender either has to foul you or stand still while you score over him.
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Create scoring distance between the defender and the ball - use your body as a barrier and keep the ball far away enough so the defender can’t swat it.
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Race the defender to the backboard - when you are scoring from a side, all you have to do is get the ball to the backboard before the defender can swat it. If he swats it after it hits the backboard, he gets called for goal-tending.
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Use shot fakes to get the defender to leave his feet - another great way to get fouled on the shot, especially if you initiate contact.
Perry does the absolute worse thing… He rarely fakes, he goes right at the defender, but not all the way into his body. He has no scoring space and he leaves enough space for the defender to contest his shot.
You would think the designer would be working on this.
It’s not too late for Perry, if, next summer, we can get him to play a summer of playground ball. Surely, there are games still out there somewhere!
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When this team loses to Robert Morris in the 1st Round of the NIT, then and only then will I be overly concerned. Problem is, when this team is good, it’s very good, and when it’s bad it’s very bad!
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@approxinfinity Frank was the best player in a Kansas uniform, just like in the Kentucky game.
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@approxinfinity Good luck with that-- teams that lose games by 25 & 30 points don’t do ANYTHING in the tournament. Get ready for a first weekend exit come March.
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Kentucky has responded to losing in the NIT to Robert Morris with a trip to the championship game and likely a second National Championship in four years. Why would you be concerned if we lost to Robert Morris in the NIT?
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@JayHawkFanToo They always rebound from any loss. Very very rarely do we see a KU team lose two or 3 in a row. It just doesnt happen. Hasnt for decades
