Wisemen leaves Memphis to Concentrate on NBA Draft
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Marco said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
Penny pulled some wild things to get Wiseman to Memphis too. Pretty sure they weren’t all totally on the up and up.
I hear you there. That recruiting class? Not a chance in hell that it was on the up and up. How many players did he sign again, and what rank?
I think it was the top ranked class and they signed something like 8 guys.
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@FarmerJayhawk That’s about what I was thinking, seven or eight. And all pretty highly rated.
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It would seem that we would be cheering Hardaway on in his recruiting efforts since we/Adidas do the same thing — “everybody does it”, right?
For the anti-NCAA folks isn’t the NCAA just being unfair to the poor athlete and his victim school?
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This decision like others (Football players skipping bowl games) is just another thorn to the product. Kids will follow this now. Already speculation Cole Anthony should do the same with the knee injury. Look how much coverage Zion got last year about this same issue.
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Was listening to the local sports show on my radio though the day yesterday and last night. They had several guests on and EACH one of them said the same thing.
They said people wrong about this like with Wiseman , they said People DON’T be blaming the NCAA for this type of thing, they said the People you should be placing blame on is the NBA
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Why blame the NBA. Wiseman could either play for Memphis for free and have the NCAA try to destroy his reputation and the reputation of his family and friends, or he can work out and prepare to get paid to do the exact same thing.
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@justanotherfan Because it’s the nba’s rule not the ncaa that forces kids who don’t want an education to get one year of college or Euro-ball (trade school) under their belt.
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dylans said:
@justanotherfan Because it’s the nba’s rule not the ncaa that forces kids who don’t want an education to get one year of college or Euro-ball (trade school) under their belt.
thanks, it is the NBA that’s caused this - because of this rule - -this is just the beginning
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HighEliteMajor said:
It would seem that we would be cheering Hardaway on in his recruiting efforts since we/Adidas do the same thing — “everybody does it”, right?
For the anti-NCAA folks isn’t the NCAA just being unfair to the poor athlete and his victim school?
Why would I cheer for a school I have no affiliation with? Weird idea.
I’ve said from the jump this was an open and shut eligibility case. The family and Penny knew it was a violation and did it anyway. That many games plus paying the money back is dumb though.
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The NBA has the rule, true enough. But that rule was created in part because college basketball wanted star players like Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwight Howard and others to come to college to give the college game a talent boost. There was a period during the height of the prep to pro era where college hoops had an issue with the perception among casual fans that the game lacked the true breakout talents. You can’t blame the NBA without acknowledging that the NCAA wanted a rule that kept players from going straight out of HS to the NBA.
Now, colleges have since soured on that rule, mostly because even more players leave after their freshman year than were going from preps to pros, so college has become a revolving door. That means that if you don’t have an outstanding freshman class (like this year), the talent level across the country is going to be down. What does this mean?
Well, the rule change is coming, but the NBA is going to make the change around the same time they introduce their academies linked to the G-League squads. We are about to see a shift to a more European development model, and that means that more top tier players will start filtering that route, with less at the D1 level. For hardcore fans (most of the people on this board), that won’t change the interest in college hoops, or in KU. But for casual fans, they will gravitate more to the NBA because the quality of play is superior. And casual fans are where you make your marketing dollars, because those are the people that are actively deciding on an every day basis whether to tune into a college hoops game or stream a movie, or go to dinner or whatever else you can do with your evenings and weekends. Those of us on this board will still watch because we are KU fans. But for others, they aren’t going to tune in, and that means a drop in ad value, which means the NCAA is going to have to figure out how to reconfigure itself once this current broadcast contract is up, because the next one probably won’t be as lucrative.
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@HighEliteMajor umm No lol. Mainly because we targeted some of those guys. The issue for me is that because it is a Nike school, the book will shut on this though it’s obvious Penny is buying players. If they were a Adidas school it would be being looked at like a Billy Preston deal. Dude sits and then leaves not even playing but it’s being looked into. Wiseman plays against the NCAAs wishes and gets a slap to the hand. The NCAA is a bunch of crooks and is the biggest legalized mob outside of the government in this country. If they ain’t in it for the money? Why are final fours being played in 90,000 seat venues where the experience is terrible for fans instead of MSG or other NBA type arenas.
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@justanotherfan Fun fact regionally MLB kicks the NBAs keister. The NBA isn’t the ratings juggernaut that we’re led to believe. I don’t know if the nba minor league deal will ever really be able to support itself.
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@HighEliteMajor Really HEM? I disagree. I see this as just another case of a kid getting raked by the NCAA.
I remember Melvin Bratton’s career path after the injury to his knee injury in his final college game at the Orange Bowl. This is just the start.
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@jhawk7782 Either there are rules or no rules. You obviously would prefer no rules because this is pretty obvious. The thought process just doesn’t want any rules. Because once the rules are construed against your interests, the rules suck.
@kjayhawks Your NCAA take is borderline delusion because of what you ignore. But I see that a lot. It’s comical how folks with your position ignore what the NCAA does and creates for student-athletes and other students. It’s as if that doesn’t exist and we have our sob-fest over future NBA players like Wiseman. But what’s new. It’s the NCAA is evil and that’s that. Something folks continue to ignore is that it’s the colleges – KU – that the NCAA represents. KU is a shareholder, so to speak.
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And by the way, we’ve had these NCAA discussion before. I’ve laid out facts and (respectfully) destroyed the other arguments offered here repeatedly. Not based on what one “feels” about things, but based on logic and facts. Folks don’t want the colleges to make and enforce their own rules. They fail to recognize that the colleges are “owners”. They own the product, the contracts, the arenas/facilities, the logos, and everything else. But that doesn’t matter. Folks don’t like the NCAA rules. They fail to recognize the unavoidable problems with massive enforcement (similar to regular law enforcement – you can’t catch everyone). They whine about enforcement when rules are clearly broken. They fail to recognize without rules there is chaos. They say they want a better system but don’t have one to offer. They fail to realize that a path away from the NCAA model is a path to professional basketball. They fail to realize that without the NCAA making billions other sports will go away – scholarships for thousands of athletes from rowing to golf to volleyball to track. Sports that can’t support themselves (and literally every females sport).
The irony is that the whiner’s position on this wants to destroy the NCAA for the benefit of a very select few men’s CB and FB players to detriment of the massive numbers of other athletes. Ironic. Isn’t the scholarship and the education of the massive numbers of athletes in all sports the goal here? Educational welfare funded by men’s CB and FB. And there are complaints based on the elite athletes not getting more?
It’s a joke.
It’s ironic because those that push this position, motivated by support for the poor black athlete, in turn will harm multiple more poor black athletes. Sound familiar? I mean, that’s leftist politics. They want so badly to help that their solutions cause more harm than good and create cyclical harm. But we know that. Look at our cesspool inner cities run by conservatives – uh, no, run by leftists. Almost exclusively by leftists. Our idiot mayor in KC spent 8 years blaming inanimate objects for the continued violence and not the people that commit the crimes. Nothing changed. But that’s a leftist. That’s evidence. We’ve had this debate before and it always leads down the same path. And I always win.
It’s whine that gets obliterated.
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@HighEliteMajor HEM, I’ve always respected you and this goes back to LJW where you and Jaybate held court. I don’t remember you being so judgmental as you obviously have become.
HEM: “You obviously would prefer no rules because this is pretty obvious.”
Wow! You obviously don’t do well with logic because this is pretty obvious." LMAO… I guess its obvious that you have obviously spent a lot of obvious work and thought because this is pretty OBVIOUS.
Wiseman can go anywhere he wants, he isn’t breaking any rules.
You OBVIOUSLY don’t know jack shit about me.
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HighEliteMajor said:
And by the way, we’ve had these NCAA discussion before. I’ve laid out facts and (respectfully) destroyed the other arguments offered here repeatedly. Not based on what one “feels” about things, but based on logic and facts. Folks don’t want the colleges to make and enforce their own rules. They fail to recognize that the colleges are “owners”. They own the product, the contracts, the arenas/facilities, the logos, and everything else. But that doesn’t matter. Folks don’t like the NCAA rules. They fail to recognize the unavoidable problems with massive enforcement (similar to regular law enforcement – you can’t catch everyone). They whine about enforcement when rules are clearly broken. They fail to recognize without rules there is chaos. They say they want a better system but don’t have one to offer. They fail to realize that a path away from the NCAA model is a path to professional basketball. They fail to realize that without the NCAA making billions other sports will go away – scholarships for thousands of athletes from rowing to golf to volleyball to track. Sports that can’t support themselves (and literally every females sport).
The irony is that the whiner’s position on this wants to destroy the NCAA for the benefit of a very select few men’s CB and FB players to detriment of the massive numbers of other athletes. Ironic. Isn’t the scholarship and the education of the massive numbers of athletes in all sports the goal here? Educational welfare funded by men’s CB and FB. And there are complaints based on the elite athletes not getting more?
It’s a joke.
It’s ironic because those that push this position, motivated by support for the poor black athlete, in turn will harm multiple more poor black athletes. Sound familiar? I mean, that’s leftist politics. They want so badly to help that their solutions cause more harm than good and create cyclical harm. But we know that. Look at our cesspool inner cities run by conservatives – uh, no, run by leftists. Almost exclusively by leftists. Our idiot mayor in KC spent 8 years blaming inanimate objects for the continued violence and not the people that commit the crimes. Nothing changed. But that’s a leftist. That’s evidence. We’ve had this debate before and it always leads down the same path. And I always win.
It’s whine that gets obliterated.
I hold literally none of these positions but good try. Might report you for violence against straw men. Also, just declaring victory yourself doesn’t make it true. I can say the Earth is flat until I’m blue in the face but that doesn’t me any less wrong.
I actually do have a reform plan and it comes from discussions with student-athletes, coaches, and administrators. Curious, how many experts on the NCAA have you actually talked to about the issues and how to make them better? Because almost to a person they’ll say the current system is broken and offer up ideas on how to fix it. If you don’t like those ideas, fine, we can have a discussion about it. But saying we all don’t have any ideas for reform is total garbage and I suspect you know that.
“The rules are good because they exist” is a pretty shortsighted position. You discuss enforcement, but the NCAA can’t enforce the rules it has, doesn’t follow its own precedents, and can’t address, by its own admission, the very serious issues it faces (e.g. sexual violence, NIL legislation).
So here’s an outline of the plan, informed by discussions with stakeholders and my own knowledge of institution building (I have a report coming out reforming the UNC BoG supported by some legislators and senior campus folks):
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The entire governance model isn’t working. Emmert (and probably everyone else) is incapable of running the show alone. Hire smart, specialized people to oversee individual sports since they have their own issues, sort of like a commissioner. For example, Tom Osborne would’ve been a great football commish after hanging out in Congress.
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Break up the NCAA into different governing bodies (e.g. P5, D2), each with the ability to make its own rules. It makes little sense for LSU to play by the same rules as Sam Houston State. Smaller schools struggle in fielding some teams and providing sufficient amounts of aid under NCAA rules. Bigger AD’s are drowning in cash and should be liberated to spend it. Division 1 is much too large, especially in basketball. A few demotions would be beneficial for all parties.
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Give the leagues more power and seats at the table. They drive the bus economically, so bring them in to adjust rules they feel need changing.
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The NCAA generally uses an ad hoc committee structure and doesn’t work to anyone’s timeline but their own. We need more formal committees comprised of a more diverse set of stakeholders around a different set of issues. For example, we need a committee to work on NIL issues and has authority to write and submit a proposal to the leagues and institutions for approval.
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More checks and balances. A majority of college CEO’s should be able to veto NCAA legislation. This would give more power directly to the schools, whose interests don’t always align with the NCAA’s. Currently, it takes a near unanimous vote to mandate reconsideration or suspension of a rule. This is far too restrictive.
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The NCAA should get out of the investigation business. It’s shown its entirely incapable of gathering facts and enforcing penalties in a uniform manner when it tries to do it in-house. Plenty of firms are specialists in this exact thing. Along these lines, appeals should be handled by independent bodies with zero affiliation with the NCAA or member institutions.
All these would fix a lot of the perverse incentives the NCAA has today, significantly improve SA welfare, and make the governing bodies and leagues much more responsive to issues as they come up.
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HighEliteMajor said:
And by the way, we’ve had these NCAA discussions before. I’ve laid out facts and (respectfully) destroyed the other arguments offered here repeatedly.
I think this is called Delusions of Grandeur and it’s not very respectful This is just sad…
HEM: They fail to recognize the unavoidable problems with massive enforcement (similar to regular law enforcement – you can’t catch everyone).
So what? The NCAA is a behemoth. If there isn’t a way for the NCAA to treat all its members equal then find a new, fairer, organization. Wiseman received a 12 game suspension for the same reason Silvio sat for two years.
HEM: Folks don’t want the colleges to make and enforce their own rules. ANY empirical evidence or is this a made-up stat. College sports would wither and die without the NCAA - or at least HEM thinks so.
The NCAA doesn’t even crown the FBS schools as NCAA champs. It seems to be doing just fine. WHY? The NCAA isn’t needed. Just because the NCAA has become the jury, prosecutor and judge doesn’t mean we can’t put a better system in place.
HEM: Folks don’t like the NCAA rules.
Genius! Right up there with the obvious/not obvious comments but maybe if the rulings weren’t so arbitrary and unfairly punish some while others skate.
HEM: The irony is that the whiner’s position…
More of that respect you bragged about and you do so well.
HEM: They fail to recognize that the colleges are “owners”. They own the product, the contracts, the arenas/facilities, the logos, and everything else. But that doesn’t matter. They whine about enforcement when rules are clearly broken. They fail to recognize without rules there is chaos. They say they want a better system but don’t have one to offer. They fail to realize that a path away from the NCAA model is a path to professional basketball. They fail to realize that without the NCAA making billions other sports will go away – scholarships for thousands of athletes from rowing to golf to volleyball to track. Sports that can’t support themselves (and literally every females sport).
on this wants to destroy the NCAA for the benefit of a very select few men’s CB and FB players to detriment of the massive numbers of other athletes. Ironic. Isn’t the scholarship and the education of the massive numbers of athletes in all sports the goal here? Educational welfare funded by men’s CB and FB. And there are complaints based on the elite athletes not getting more?
It’s a joke.
It’s ironic because those that push this position, motivated by support for the poor black athlete, in turn will harm multiple more poor black athletes. Sound familiar? I mean, that’s leftist politics. They want so badly to help that their solutions cause more harm than good and create cyclical harm. But we know that. Look at our cesspool inner cities run by conservatives – uh, no, run by leftists. Almost exclusively by leftists. Our idiot mayor in KC spent 8 years blaming inanimate objects for the continued violence and not the people that commit the crimes. Nothing changed. But that’s a leftist. That’s evidence. We’ve had this debate before and it always leads down the same path. And I always win.
Now THAT’s some good whining. So disagree and you’re a cold-hearted whiner and with a bit of leftwing progressive leanings while also being a racist. TFF
HEM: We’ve had this debate before and it always leads down the same path. And I always win.
HEM: Also, just declaring victory yourself doesn’t make it true…
CLASSIC! I agree with you wholeheartedly. It’s funny how you prove yourself wrong in the very next statement.
Pathetic. Get over yourself HEM. Wake-up and get a grip. Time to pretend you’re not a twit.
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One of the biggest problems that I have with the NCAA (aside from the oad rule, which is just absurd)? They cherry pick, go after two or three schools instead of fixing the problem when the entire stinking mess is blatantly right under their noses - that being the connection between AAU recruits, apparel companies and the universities they give billions to. Can they fix it? No. Why? Because the NCAA does not own high school kids or their coaches - nor does it own certain universities, though it would like to.
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@Marco I believe all of our problems are fixable - all the pieces are there but assembly required.
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@HighEliteMajor i typically agree you but I’m interested As to how holding final fours in 90,000 football stadiums benefits the student athletes? Also as mentioned above, why only target a small amount of schools in this so called scandal? I’d question anyone’s intelligence looking at UKs, UNCs and Dook classes year after year that thinks they ain’t cheating in someway.
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kjayhawks said:
@HighEliteMajor i typically agree you but I’m interested As to how holding final fours in 90,000 football stadiums benefits the student athletes? Also as mentioned above, why only target a small amount of schools in this so called scandal? I’d question anyone’s intelligence looking at UKs, UNCs and Dook classes year after year that thinks they ain’t cheating in someway.
The 90,000 or big venue = more $ = more money for all student athletes.
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA 101_Where the Money Goes_February 2019 web.pdf
I’m as irritated as anyone that we got busted and Zion played at Duke without penalty. We know what happened. But some folks speed and don’t get tickets. We got caught.
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t believe that figure coming from the NCAA as a source, seems to me they made it just fine before hosting at those venues.
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@kjayhawks I’d prefer more intimate venues too. But I see no reason not to generally believe the NCAA reporting. This gives insight into why the big money provides big benefit to multiple thousands of students.
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Over $160 million in operating expenses. Seems a tad high, but I’m sure the volume of crap they deal with is astounding.
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@jhawk7782 From above, my initial response to you was not intended to be a personal attack. It was just a response to the apparent philosophy. Not sure what I misinterpreted in reading your initial post, i.e., the claim Wiseman was getting raked by the NCAA.
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Being a fan of a basketball school I’d sure like to see the NCAA’s revenue stream include football and less of the ncaa tournament to fund everything. But that would mean a NCAA football tournament and I don’t think they need anymore power.
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@HighEliteMajor HEM, I know I wouldn’t win many/any debates with you and i tend to agree with you 90% of the time anyways. I get that the NCAA was founded " in 1906 to protect young people from the dangerous and exploitive athletics practices of the time”. wiki
Who protects the those students from the NCAA? I believe the NCAA has far surpassed any other entity when it comes to the exploitation of student athletes. That sounds more like a slogan than being factual but either way, with players who can transfer at any time, there is bound to be a readjustment period and having some structure in place will be better than nothing.
I completely understand Wisemen’s decision but I’m glad it wasn’t a player from KU.
I was being kind of a dick because of how we lost to Nova. And I apologize.
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@jhawk7782 No problem — I’m never a d***.
I truly don’t think anyone needs protecting. There are no “victims” of the NCAA. It’s simple. If the NCAA, its rules, its warts, aren’t worth it, don’t accept a scholarship.
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t know… Sorta sounds like Pontious Pilate asking for a second towel to dry his hands with,
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2760413001
Wiseman signs with an agent. This is how it should be. Get these kids out of CBB that poison the sport. They great a false narrative that there needs to be changes — for these select few. They deserve to be able to make a living when they want to. Leave CBB alone. Please, please, let’s have the NBA prep academies. Competition is what will crystalize the true value of what CBB offers to athletes.
