Who will be this year's DSC?
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@jaybate-1.0 said “Hunter: My guess here is that Self is so sure he is going to have to start Hunter Mickelson and need to rely on him in the early big games to keep KU from getting blown out inside”.
Bingo!!! I have said all along he was either starting or first off the bench. He is going to HAVE to play in the UK game PERIOD. If he does well he is safe, if not we are in bad shape. He would be a senior this year if he didn’t have to sit! He was in the ESPN top 100 coming out of hs with 3 years under his belt! He is going to play!
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@jaybate-1.0 and @Statmachine Bingo!!! with you guys all the way on the bigs.
JB with you on all the masking and diversion techniques. I believe Self when he says that he doesn’t really know yet what the lineups will be until he sees them in practice. But the groupings that he predicts for himself are being kept close to his vest. This is still a young team and I think he is giving them a chance to fly under radar, get some live fire thrown at them without being schemed against by opposing coaches. There are some soph. and Jrs. waiting to cross the channel while some freshman are inflating tanks on the other side of the island.
Are far as the DSC goes, a couple thoughts. One I don’t think we sign PG next year. All the guards we seem to be in on are SG types. PG’s are thin next year, which I believe IMO, was why we saw the full court press for Graham. So faced with the fact that we have what we have at pg for the next two seasons, Self needs to keep the rust knocked off all of them for injury insurance. Second thought is that we are loaded at the SF position and we seem to be in on some of those type guys for next year. I worry for Greene. Granted I haven’t followed recruiting much so I could be wrong about a lot of this. If we land a high ranked pg for 2016, then one of our pgs it’s safe.
This PG thing is so intriguing! After watching the player interviews, a couple thing stood out to me. One, Frank referred to the team as “my team”. Maybe some politicking on his end, showing confidence, taking ownership, etc… But very positive! Conner seems pretty comfortable talking about lineups and playing with other players. Graham didn’t get many of those kind of questions. When coupled with the comments from Self about playing two ball handlers a lot and about taking away some of Franks aggressiveness, it made me think of this in a different way. When Frank is out there alone, scoring will be done by others with him setting them up. When Frank is out there with one of the other PG’s, then Frank is to stop thinking and be a major scoring option. The other guards job is to be a safety release for Frank incase of trouble and be enough of a threat to keep a defender occupied and out of the play.
I don’t know, just a thought. I could be way off!
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One thing is as sure as Ray Charles having Georgia on his mind: Brannen Greene is not going gently into that DSC night.
Brannen had a wild hair. Wild hairs are a no-no with Self. Travis Releford had a wild hair. But Self believed in him. And broke him down until Travis the freshman people thought would start wound up having to give up his high school game as a glamour two, take three years of retrofitting, and play two years as old man’s game 3. I am not sure Brannen Greene can learn an old man’s game 3. I always knew Travis could learn it, it was just a matter of when he was willing to do it. Greene I am not sure can convert to the old man game. But clearly, Self is signaling that the only way Greene is going to become a starter, or even a big minute rotation guy is if he commits to being a lock down, old man 3, and he’s got to do it without a red shirt, if we are to believe Self, which I do not.
I believe there will be a red shirt. I believe it will be Brannen. I believe Self has decided that Brannen is going to become an exceptionally tall version of Travis Releford and Brandon Rush, or he’s a transfer.
I believe Brannen will get the lock down religion and decide to take a red shirt, bulk up, and become indispensable to Self the following season.
Note: I realize I am ice skating on frozen cellophane with some of these forecasts, but Self is basically inviting everyone to crab a thin limb and let him cut it off with whatever he eventually decides on. So: I’m willing to play along.
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@jaybate-1.0 Yep! same conclusion I had earlier in the week. Self saying no redshirts threw me, but what you say makes sense. Either buy in and take a red shirt, or save that year for a transfer AWIII style. I guess it’s up to him.
That tree has to be getting weak with all of us hanging onto thin limbs!
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Let’s not forget that BamBam was half of the “Bruise Brothers” last year.
Why wouldn’t we find an energy connection this year running BamBam with Cliff?
Those guys should form a high-energy, muscle-bound synergistic force in the post. It shouldn’t matter how tall our competition is. These guys should rule the paint.
Think real estate and think about two bruisers who should be able to own real estate with their thighs and butts.
Refs are still stuck on last year… they are looking to call fouls with the hands and arms. The Bruise Brothers should use their thighs and butts and force the competition to use their hands and arms to fight for position. Advantage: Bruise Brothers. And they should be drawing a lot of fouls!
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@drgnslayr There are just so many ways to spec this team. Yours accounts for refs and so makes the most sense. I will back off my takes and go with yours.
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@jaybate-1.0 All I have is salt-will that suffice?
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@jaybate-1.0 Great summary … really was. Of course, I have a couple comments – you said Jamari Traylor is this team’s Brady Morningstar. I choked a bit there. But your logic as to why is impeccably correct. And I remain flummoxed (good word, huh?) by the belief that Perry will flex to the 3 at times. Do you really, really think that Perry will do that, with all of our perimeter players, and when Marcus never really did? If that happened, and I don’t think it will except in some fluky 2 minute stretch with foul trouble, it would more likely be like Mason, Graham, Ellis, Traylor, Alexander. Your scenario has Greene or Oubre at the 2 and presumably Lucas or Mickelson at the 5. Taht would be big, lumbering, team.
Holy crap … if we wanted to play big … and if Selden could dribble … Selden, Oubre, Ellis, Alexander, Traylor. But back to reality.
What extended situation, meaning type of game, could possibly lead Self to play Ellis at the 3? I just don’t see any benefit.
Another thing, reading your post above – I caught “jewels are being put in a vice” and “Patton” in the same glance. Patton kind of spoke like his jewels were in a vice. Not a George C. Scott-like tone, for sure.
Is this guy a bad ass or what?
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@drgnslayr Actually, I think Traylor-Alexander is the type of grouping in the post you could see quite a bit. Assuming Alexander is what we think he is, that is some high-level srappin’. And as we’ve discussed, Ellis’ defense cost him some pine time in favor of Traylor last season. I expect that this season, too.
I think there are only three guys that we can say that we know their ultimate roles “for sure” – Ellis, Selden, and Traylor (as the first big off the bench). Or at least high probability.
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@HighEliteMajor and if Selden disappears, we have guys to replace him too.
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@HighEliteMajor I am still scratching me head that you don’t think Mickelson will start or be first big off the bench. HCBS said Mickelson will not beat out Ellis for minutes and he needs to play bigger if he wants to play. Implying that he needs to play the 5 or ride the pine. HCBS knows what motivates each player and I think he was doing so on media day. HCBS and KU NEEDS a shot blocker or rim protector and he stressed that on media day. He also said that Mickelson blocked more shots than Joel last year during his sophomore year. I completely believe that Mickelson will get the 3rd most minutes out of the bigs after Alexander and Ellis.
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@Statmachine didn’t Self say something to the effect that Hunter needs to improve in a lot of areas if he wants minutes? As far as comparing blocks, Embiid didn’t have many games or minutes last year.
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@Statmachine Based on Selfs comments, Ellis is the top post guy. Self said pretty clearly in the press conference that Mickelson was a “prototypical four”, and that he was a “face-up” guy. Many of the thoughts on Mickelson playing was that he was a Center/5. Self also mentioned that with Ellis, he needed more of a post guy and rebounder when commenting about Mickelson. Seemed clear that he didn’t like the idea of Ellis and Mickelson together.And as @Crimsonorblue22 said, Self said that Mickelson will need to play bigger than he is, and that he’d have to do some more things to “compete” for playing time.
Would be curious as to your interpretation of Self’s comments from the press conference on Mickelson.
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@HighEliteMajor hem, if you had to pick a starting 5 defensive team, who’d you pick? I’m guessing, Mason, Selden, oubre, Svi and Mari? Pressing 5, maybe?
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I mostly agree with what you wrote. As you know, I have been saying all along that Mickelson might open at center, even when his natural position is PF (as per HCBS), but being the tallest player he gets the position by default. It is difficult to draw any conclusions form a press conference before practice starts since most of the coach-talk is speculation and you have to read deep between the lines to get even bits of factual information.
This what Coach Self said about Mickelson:
"The reality is, Hunter, with his skill set, will probably have to do some more things in order to see playing time just because of what our needs are based on our other personnel."
And this is what he said about Lucas:
"Landen may have had the best spring and summer of anybody. He’s had a good fall, too. He’s going to play. He’s fighting for major minutes. He and Cliff are probably right now based on what I’ve seen going to head-to-head for a lot of major minutes."
After watching Coach Self presser, it sounds like Lucas might be further along and might get more minutes… I still think tat Mickelson is the more logical candidate but I am not privy as to what has transpired over the Summer and how far along in their development the players are; however, based on the comment above, a reasobale person would have to give the edge to Lucas.
As far as Ellis playing the 3, I can see why that could happen. While Perry fits best as a 4 in the KU team, any chance he has of playing in the NBA will likely be as 3 and not as 4. I can see where Coach Self might allow him to play the 3 or maybe a stretch 4 where he can show his longer distance shooting skills. Interesting comment by Alexander when asked about Ellis, he indicated that he tries to guard him on the perimeter but Perry is much faster than he is; I am not sure if this indicates that Perry has increased his speed over the Summer, Alexander is slow or more likely a combination of both. If Perry has indeed improved his speed and outside shooting, I can see him playing a hybrid 3-4 combination.
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@HighEliteMajor My assessment is more of an assessment of our roster. Which one of our guys on this years roster is listed as a 5? How many guys are big enough to play the 5? Who else has a history of being a terrific shot blocker? HCBS is going to be forced into using him because of his height and skill set. We have tons of scoring options but who else is taller and known for blocking shots? We have seen what a good rim protector does to the confidence of guards that like to drive the lane. We need his skill set on the court more than anyone thinks. I could be wrong but I bet he plays more than some of you might think.
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@Statmachine if he’s the man, I’d be thrilled! I’d rather go small and have Mari and Cliff in there, BUT thankfully I’m not the coach!
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None of the players on the official roster are listed as centers, even Mickelson is listed as Forward. However, much like in the NBA, in college the line between Centers and Power Forwards is blurry and more and more is interchangeable. Players that you would think are centers such as Ibaka, Duncan Griffin are all in reality power forwards. As Coach Self indicated, Mickelson is a power forward but will be playing more of a center, although it is really a “distinction without a difference.”
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On another note, listened to ljw guys on the road. They ask nick Krug which jhawk stood out on the bb media day shoot, and he said Kelly and devonte. Great kids and were engaging, not just get it done attitudes.
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What? No votes for Brady Morningstar?
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Yeah, its all speculation at this point. But, thats what makes it fun! This team has a lot of unknowns, even with all the guys that were here last year. A few things are set in stone. This team is loaded, more so than last year. I like Self’s remark about how this team reminds him of 08. I can see that, but at the same time its not entirely accurate. The 2008 team was a battle tested hungry wolf pack. In 2007 they would have gone further if not for UCLA beating them in the elite 8. That motivated them, made them mad, and we all know what happened next. Both 07 and 08 teams excelled on defense. Last year plainly sucked at defense. Even with JoJo being the stud shot blocker and Wiggs being our best perimeter D guy. Will this team be better at defense than last year? Most certainly. But, will it be top 5 rated defense? I think boot camp plus a couple days with the Marines putting the hurt on the team will do wonders for their toughness and molding into a defensive wolf pack. We also know the offense will be spread around a lot more with this team. Nobody will break Wiggs freshmen scoring record for the foreseeable future, or single game scoring record. But, who ever the starting 5 are, they could very well each average double figures, not unlike the 08 team.
I have a good feeling about Oubre and Selden on the wings this season. I also have a good feeling about Frank Mason, I think he can give us a presence like Sherron did in his sophomore season. Im calling him Sherron 2.0. If Coach is saying Greene still needs to buy in on D, then he probably does. Conner is going to light it up from trey this season. The lid will finally come off. With all the praise Coach has given Devonte’ I just don’t buy a freshmen PG starter. I am impressed that he got top honors from the Marines though.
Traylor and Alexander are The Bruise Brothers 2.0 Perry will see his share of playing time but if he doesnt improve on D this year, I bet he gets to ride the pine a little bit more. Lucas seems to be ready to have a break out year and I hope Mickelson gets his chance to shine too. Like I said, this team is deeeeep. Coach could easily have 2 five man teams this year. We all know that wont happen.
If Greene cannot show he can defend, I agree he may get the DSC role. If Mickelson cannot play outside his comfort zone, he may get one too. KU vs UK will be a very very tough game for us to win. But I hope we do.
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@JayHawkFanToo I agree with your PF vs. C distinction … that it is blurred. But there are some guys, of course, that have the look of true centers, like Embiid, Withey, Aldrich, and don’t look at all like power forwards.
You mentioned that Mickelson is “power forward but will be playing more of a center …”
The importance in the power forward distinction I think is really what coach Self thinks. It certainly sounded like Self does not think Ellis on the court with Mickelson will work. He took particular time to mention the need for things Mickelson apparently doesn’t do in reference to what he needs on the court with Ellis.
He also mentioned specifically the idea that Mickelson is the “prototypical four”, and a face up guy. That, to me, removes him from the possible blurry middle.
This makes sense then. Self thinks Ellis is better with a buy who is more of a true post player. A post presence. That doesn’t mean that player has to be a center. It’s just the style of play.
So could Mickelson work with Alexander, Traylor, or Lucas? Sounds like he could.
Of course, Mickelson’s a decent shot blocker. But that fact alone doesn’t mean he has any propensity to be a rim protector. There are different types of shot blocking. The “I can block you when you start to shoot” shot blocking (Kirk Hinrich was very good at this); the “I can swoop in and block your shot from another spot” shot blocking (Traylor does this well); and the “You drive into the lane, and I’ll block your shot” shot blocking (like Embiid and Withey) – this last one is the rim protecting element of shot blocking.
I am betting that Mickelson’s shot blocking isn’t near 1/2 “rim protector.” Just a hunch. Meaning, I don’t think we’ll see him in a rim protecting role anymore than we would otherwise see Traylor, Lucas, and Alexander.
Because Self raised the issue of Mickelson not being suited to play with Ellis, and Ellis is likely our biggest minutes guy in the post, by consequence, it sounds reasonable to think that Mickelson might not be a significant minutes guy. Couple that with Self’s comments about Mickelson’s “skill set” and needing to do more to see “playing time”, well, I think it will be interesting.
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I like your idea of redshirting Brannen. That makes sense. We have too much talent around the positions he should play, and he’s a guy that another year of pure development could turn his game from being a marginal contributor to a major contributor.
We should be willing to invest in Brannen. He is a guy that is worth focusing on. He is a guy worth keeping around an extra year. He is a guy that could be a major example of how we can develop players.
Brannen is a guy that needs more time to really buy in to Self’s philosophy. He is kind of like TT… imagine if we had TT around another year?
Brannen needs to add strength and he needs to adapt his mind into playing with more physicality. He’s a guy that needs to learn to bend his knees. He plays too upright. I believe that guys that play too upright do so for two reasons; their bodies need to be strengthened and stretched for flexibility and they need to work on mentally getting deeper into the game… more focus.
If Brannen can make that leap he is a guy that could definitely become a lottery pick. The assets are there.
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I really like how you broke out differences in shot blockers.
“I am betting that Mickelson’s shot blocking isn’t near 1/2 “rim protector.” Just a hunch.”
That is exactly how I thought of Hunter last year. But if the stories are true, and he has increased his vertical 6", then I’ve suddenly opened my mind to thinking he may fit more in the Embiid/Withey category.
It really isn’t the 6" vertical increase that has me buzzing… it is the inference that if he had that kind of vertical increase, he must have even more of an increase in lateral movement!
Your description of Withey and Embiid guarding the block is only possible because both of those guys could move well laterally. Lateral speed is what it takes to leave your man and go after another man’s shot. You have to be quick to get over and you have to have the quickness to retreat if the pass goes to the man you left.
A huge part of making a shot blocker like a Withey or Embiid is lateral speed and agility.
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Nicely done. My comment about the C vs PF issue was to point out that in the old days teams tended to have a lineup composed of a traditional C, PF, SF, SG and PG. Now a days, many if not most NBA team do not use what we would call a traditional Center and use two PFs instead. This is true for other positions as well where the line between SG and PG or SG and SF are almost gone. Many team list players simply as G or F and do not differentiate between the positions.
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@JayHawkFanToo Well you’re absolutely correct. That traditional center is a rare thing. The game has changed.
@jaybate-1.0 and @drgnslayr - Wow. Greene redshirting? I never really thought about that. That does make some sense … some. I personally think that if Greene isn’t getting the time he wants, he’s gone. Never know when the next Kelly Oubre (Jaylen Brown, for example) might sign. The OAD effect. If you’re Greene, you would blow a redshirt year hoping that a coach that won’t really play you in your first two seasons will play you if you stay and redshirt, all with the significant chance that you could be recruited over?
When I hear Self still questioning whether he’s buying in on the defensive end, that is concerning to me. When I hear “buy in”, that makes me think effort and attitude, as opposed to ability.
Self ain’t changing. He is isn’t adjusting his approach. Greene better adjust his.
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See @drgnslayr 's eloquent response to my fumbling one.
And thanks for making me think. It hurt. But I did it.
