@jaybate-1.0 I agree with the logic in your post but I’m not sure Svi, physically matured or not, is the missing link to this team reaching our expectations of them playing at a high level of basketball The last two seasons certainly didn’t reach my expectations for a Bill Self team. I’ve been wanting to post about this for a while now but really didn’t know how to say what I see with this group of guys the last couple years. I’ll probably get blasted for some of this by members of this site but here it goes.

I’ve been watching games from the 06-08 seasons to get an idea of how a group of guys should progress through a few years. It seems to me that physical maturity has little to do with it when compared to the mental maturity.

I’m convinced that this group won’t meet any expectation until they have a true “coach on the floor” leader. Someone with knowledge of how to play the game, how to run the system Someone who knows, not only their job in the system, but everyone else’s too. Someone who can direct the other players into proper position. Someone who can read the other teams offense and defense and call the right play without having to look over to the bench, and can keep coaching and keep the other players in the loop during the game. The 08 team had 3 of those guys, this team has none. I do think the jury is still out on Graham and Svi. But our upper classmen, while I’m hopeful, I don’t see it. Go back and watch the old games, every stoppage of play RussRub, Mario, Sherron would be talking and dissecting something going on in the game. Then one would go tell the others what was going on and the other would go tell coaching staff what was going on. Many times you can see one of them call for the ball, take it back up top, and call another play after seeing something wasn’t working or after seeing something to take advantage of. They would hold the ball communicate to the other the play and what to do, even pointing and motioning them into position. Among the three of them, they could just look at each other know what to do. Our guys now do none of that. Our senior leader, Perry, seems to have taken a vow of silence or something. Most of our guys look like they don’t know what they are supposed to do, never mind everyone else.

I recall somewhere I read (might have been here or some of you from the other site) that the 08 team had like 93 plays at their disposal and that RussRob, Mario, and Sherron had the freedom to call any play they needed to for a given situation! Now that’s a soph, 2 jr’s (if you count BRush) and a senior. Do any of you really think that our team now knows 93 plays? 45? 30? Frank, Wayne, Devonte, and Greene(?), that’s 3 Jr’s and Soph.

You mentioned having productive bigs, I contend that if the 08 guards had Lucas and Mickleson, that those guards would make them productive bigs because of their passing ability, play making, on floor coaching and positioning, and great defensive work. Probably not to the extent Shady was at taking over games from time to time, but then again…:)

On the do everything 3, no doubt BRush was a special player. But in one of the 08 tournament games, there was about 5 possessions where BRush took the outlet pass and pushed the ball up the floor. Crossing the half court line, he was at the top of the key, RussRob went one side and Sherron went the other. So BRush was playing the “1” and Sherron was playing the “3” on that possession, and Sherron looked more like a “6’-7” 3" than Oubre did most of last season! But it didn’t matter anyway, after the ball reversed to the second and third side everyone had rotated through all three guard spots anyway. There has been a lot of talk about who should play the 1,2,3,4,5 and who backs up who. The 08 team had only 2 positions, guard and big! The only difference was which side of the ball you’re on. When the ball is on one side of the floor the 5 is low and the 4 is high, then on the other side the 5 goes high and 4 goes low, so it doesn’t matter. Now of course, different players could bring different skills to each spot on the floor. For example, Shady would take the 15 footer, but Sasha might be looking to pass from that spot because there are better shots for the team to take than that one. But Sasha still rotated into and out of that spot to make the defense have to move, so he had to know how and what to do at each position. Same thing with the guards! I saw BRush draining 3’s off the “elevator play” and he was a so called “3”, and we saw the same thing with BMac and he was a “2”. It just don’t matter, you could run the play for both of them in the same game. They either switch sides for that possession or just run the play the other direction. I’m sure some guys like one side of the floor better than the other and they can go to their “spot” when walking the ball up. But when they pushed the tempo they just went to the closest wing or brought the ball up. They either get a good quick shot, or rotate in and out of their spot as the ball is reversed. This idea that Selden just can’t handle switching from a “2” to a “3” is ridiculous. What’s the difference? What, one goes for a rebound and one gets back on defense? That’s a tough one to figure out! He don’t even have to change sides of the floor, just change the number next to his name from a “2” to a “3”, it doesn’t matter. Someone mentioned that if we go small, then we lose the rebounding from the “3” spot. Wasn’t Frank our leading rebounder for much of last season? Just pencil a “3” next to his name when the ball goes up and the other can get back on defense since he can rebound better anyway. Another thing, not every position has it’s own backup, right? Self usually plays 5 guards and in crunch time only 4. That means someone has to learn to play more than one numbered position, right? I see these projected lineups for next year, and if Mason and Graham can both play the “1” or “2”, then why in the world can’t Selden play the “2” or “3”? There just isn’t that much difference. Self needs four guys who can at least half a$$ handle the ball enough to rotate through the entire play. Oh, on a side note, the 08 guys actually ran the weave effectively…well sometimes. It was cool to see them do though. They would change tempo, hesitate, cut it off short, and really pinch the perimeter defenders together at the top of the key. When they got them all bunched up, one wouldn’t come to meet the ball and instead get a pass out to the wing and have a free lane to the paint. Cool to see work. That was probably the last time, lol.

One last issue, the non-business like culture of this team. ralster mentioned in a post above the two 3’s that Mario and Sherron hit in the title game. Go watch that and look at the reactions on their faces, and look at the bench’s reaction. Mario and Sherron just looked like that’s what they’re supposed to do, that’s all. Got back on defense and kept playing. The bench, the players stood up and pumped a fist in the air or clapped, and then sat down. The coaches, they clapped and then went back to business. Self stood up to start barking out orders for the defense. But that’s it. Same reactions on several Shady and Sasha lob dunks. Now of course they celebrated and chest bumped with their teammates at time outs or the locker room but not on the floor. But you watch this year, the first 3 Greene hits against Fort Hayes State, he will be jogging back down the floor making gestures like he did something special. Or the first ally oop someone will flex and scream and pretend they are tearing off their shirt. And on the bench, all the players will be falling out of their chairs, acting like they are going to run out on the floor. And there will be Snacks acting like a kids with them. That nonsense is just as bad as Adams eating a fake bowl of cereal…(I do have to admit, that’s the goofiest thing I’ve ever seen :)) But seriously, act like you’ve been here before. Did they practice those shots and plays? Aren’t they suppose to go in? And Snacks doing it…ridiculous.

To finish up, I want to say, that I love our players. Great characters, fun to watch them learn and go through the ups and downs of each season. I just don’t expect to see them execute the way the 06-08 teams did. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think so. Does this mean they can’t win a championship? Of course not! A lot of it depends on match ups and having things fall the right way. It’s just the basketball playing won’t be a thing of beauty like it was in 08. Everybody go back and watch those games. It’s amazing the difference.

Rock Chalk!

@HighEliteMajor I agree with you some of your points, but not on some others. Sometimes we tend to think that the key to success is this, or that. Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees.

"I will start out here by saying that teams have clearly tried to guard our perimeter better. No doubt there.

But it is a complete myth, a complete fiction, that we should be paralyzed on the perimeter because of it."

You are completely right. But that is not the reason that we are paralyzed. I contend that we are just not a good offensive team. Slayer and I discussed this last night. Here is what I posted:

"I feel your frustration about long ball offense, but I feel the problem is not about focusing on an inside game or outside game. We are just not a good offensive team, inside or out.

We have 3-4 good individual shooters on this team, but they cannot get looks on their own, they cannot catch and shoot good after moving in the offense, they aren’t good at making themselves available as an outlet on fastbreaks, we aren’t good at kicking the ball out drives, we aren’t good finishing drives to make a defense have to suck in just to be able to kick out, and the team can’t set a screen without fouling. They can only hit open looks. They are very deadly at open looks, but not if they have to doing anything but just stand there, get the ball, the shoot it with perfect timing and set feet. Contrast this to other good shooters that we’ve had, B-Mac, Mario, BRush, Sherron. These guys would miss if “too open”. B-Mac was deadly in the “elevator play”, but Greene would probably miss that shot 9 to of 10 times. We haven’t seen anyone knock down a shot on the “chop play” since Conner last year.

I contest the only way to get open looks is to have an inside game that has to be respected, to the point defenders sag off our perimeter guys. Selden got hot for a few games because his defenders were playing off, daring him to shoot. After a couple games they are right back on him, because they know he can’t finish even if he gets around them. And his 3% has gone back to crap.

Notice when we did hit a lot of 3s, all the scoring was perimeter and nothing down low. And notice now that the defenses are pushing our guys out, that Perry’s numbers have gone up. The opposing game plan is now to make Perry have to beat you, and force Oubre, Mason, and Wayne to drive. If we had a good 2 man game down low, then the perimeter open back up.

We just aren’t a good enough team (in many aspects) to get whatever shot we want. We have to take what they give us. I think Self wants our 3 point shooters unleashed, and right now, this late in the season, the only chance is if Perry remains a 20-30 point scorer and we win with that enough that opponents give us back our open 3’s. If Greene wants to make it rain from 3 land in the tourney, and go for 25 a game; then he better be the biggest cheerleader for Perry dropping 30/game from now through the end of the season.

This is a team game. Sometimes it’s not about doing more of your best thing, but minimizing what you’re the worst at. The best thing-shooting outside shots. The worst thing-running an offense (any offense) as a team.

Self is trying to build a better team."

We don’t know if Self has been trying to get them good looks or not. Maybe they work on this stuff in practice and they just can’t knock down the shots coming off of screens. Maybe we aren’t good enough to set screens without fouling. We know that was a problem earlier in the year. Maybe we just can’t execute any scheme perimeter or not. Maybe our perimeter game just is what it is.

“If we are to believe that we can’t score from the perimeter because teams guard it, we are thus always at the whim of the defense – which again, is not true.”

Again very true statement, but you are at the whim of your players skills and ability, as well as, what the defense gives or takes away.

Slayer responded to my above post with a comment about how we need other players to be able to create their own shot. And not play “team ball” by just passing and ball around the perimeter. This is what I responded with:

"Agree, but the ones who create have to learn to create for others as well.

I don’t think this team reads defenses very well at all. Frank can blow by almost anyone guarding him, but before he goes, he needs to have an idea of what to do and thus direct teammates to where they need to be to take advantage of his drive. He needs to set up an outlet on the perimeter, a easy score for someone down low, and for someone to be in position for a rebound if he does take the shot himself. I know I always go back the 08 team for examples, but they were the best at running this offense. If they didn’t get the look they wanted after about 20 seconds one of the guards would call for the ball back out to the key, they would motion the guy into certain positions and then take off to the basket and somebody would get a good look. Jackson and Kahn were very effective 5’s because they went to where the other could create for them. I believe you could put Landen on that 08 team as a starter and he would average 10ppg just for being where RussRob and Mario told him to be.

When this team passes the ball around, not letting it stick, it seems they are just going through the motions, instead of passing and probing with purpose to move the defense. How many times in the past have we seen the ball get reversed with no good looks, and they would all move about 5 feet to one side, do it again, and that time have a good angle for one of the bigs to seal and get a good shot; or (if the defense overplayed) reverse and have an open perimeter shot.

The key missing ingredient for this team is no floor general, no coach on the floor."

You make some great points about WSU and ISU, but do you think any of those teams are Final Four teams? IMO, the best perimeter shooter/scorer in recent memory was JJ Reddick. In his 4 seasons at Duke, they had a perimeter based offense 3 of the 4. The only season they made it to the Final Four was the year they had a balanced offense of inside and out. And JJ Reddick is 3 times the offensive threat that any of our guys are this year.

The last few years (when we have had really good post play) we have all railed at Self for not developing a perimeter game and for not developing his bench, even if it cost us some regular season games or even the conference title. Well, that’s what he’s doing. We’ve had perimeter games, post games, and bench developing games. So we’ve dropped a few games, played a few close games, big deal. There is no doubt in my mind that if we went through this whole season with post players attempting only 10 shots/game and the rest just jacking up threes, our 3% would look much worse and we would all be complaining about how we should be developing other parts of the game.

So is Self misguided? No. He sees this team for what it is. A post game full of holes, and a perimeter game full of holes. Do I want to place our season in the hands of Traylor, Lucas, and Mickelson? No. Do I want to place it in the hands of Mason, Greene, Oubre, Selden, Graham, and Ellis from the outside? No. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Self knows what he has on the outside. He is finding out what he has on the inside. Now he has the rest of the season to figure out how to play them together as a team. Both inside and outside have to get better because neither one will get us to a Final Four. Can this team be a Final Four team? Yes, but only as a team.

"We know the post-script to this season, That we weren’t really that good anyway. That it was coach Self who got this team to its peak. That this team really overachieved. That we were “just so young.” That this team didn’t have a true big man, and thus couldn’t achieve greatness. "

I know you’ve supported the idea that players usually play to their rankings. Well don’t you think this has played to their individual rankings on average? I mean, throw out Cliff, because obviously there is something else going on there. Kelly ranked pretty high because athleticism and open floor play. Selden, he has been a disappointment. Maybe because of injury. But Mason, Greene, Oubre, Graham, Ellis, Traylor, Lucas, and Mickelson; haven’t they all played at or above their rankings? And here we sit leading the toughest conference, and probably looking at a 2 seed in the tourney. A chance to make a Final Four if we can play as a team. Sounds about right to me.

I love your post and passion for the Jayhawks. You are one of my favorite poster on here. And I may be totally wrong, but I just don’t think our outside game is as good as you think it is. I also don’t think Self is opposed to a perimeter dominated offense. In fact the 08 ring team was very perimeter dominated, and that team would wipe the floor with this one.

Hello everybody!

As a fellow Jayhawk fan, I have been following and enjoying all of you guys for the better part of 2 years. After reading all the post last week about the user base I decided to come out of the shadows and hopefully join your community.

First of all, thank you to all of you guys who have created and contributed to this website. This has to be the most knowledgeable collection of basketball minds in the world. Every time I click on KU Buckets I feel like I’m stepping into a room full of friends.

Let me share with everyone my background and “Jayhawk story”. First of all I’m not a KU alum, in fact, I’m not an alum at all.(except the school of hard knocks maybe) I grew up in southern Missouri and there was no college sports to watch in my house. Coming out of high school there was no colleges knocking on my door, and there was no money for me to go knocking on theirs. I moved to Kansas City in the fall of 99 and as a bored 18 year old (probably suffering from culture shock) I turned on my 13" TV to flip through my 5 channels, and was amazed when I watched my first Jayhawk game. That was the most entertaining basketball team I had ever seen at the time. I was hooked from that moment on. I have followed Jayhawk basketball ever since and have tried to submerse myself in Jayhawk basketball history. The history of Jayhawk basketball is truly the greatest story in sports. Two years ago I found you guys, first on the old site and followed you to here. I’m now a fan of all of you. I have read your words almost everyday and am very thankful to all of you that post on here.

Now I ask all of you guys to please accept me into your community and I hope that I can contribute at least a fraction of the enjoyment that I have received from all the posters here. Please be patient with me as figure out how to use this wonderful site (I’ve never posted anywhere before) and please excuse me if I’m a little star struck when communicating with all of you, as I have become such a huge fan of you guys!

Rock Chalk! jayhawkbychoice

PS: If I’m using an avatar that someone else is using, please let know and I’ll change it.

My biggest concern for this season is with the coaching staff. Last year was Bill Self’s worst TEAM since being at KU. I know everything goes back to the head coach, but I don’t think it was all his fault. I mean, you have assistant coaches for a reason. Right?

The offensive schemes seemed way simplified. The defensive schemes seemed way simplified. The playbook seemed very thin. Lack of in-game adjustments. Lack of “wrinkles” to help the team in situations. Some individuals got better as the season went on, but the team as a whole didn’t seem to get any better.

I know we were young and inexperienced, but we’ve had other young and inexperienced team that showed improvement as the season went on. @jaybate-1.0 has posted about the “low foundation-high ceiling” guys and that is key, but I think there is another factor to consider when talking about a team. Could the players just not “get it”? Lack of preparation by the coaches? Lack of quality scouting from the coaches? Lack of in-game suggestions from the assistants? The inability to “coach them up”?

I like many, feared the loss of Danny Manning, but we’ve seemed to have weathered that well. And I point to the development of our bigs like Traylor. He has shown improvement every time he gets on the floor.

I fear what we are missing is Joe Dooley, and what I call the “Joe Dooley factor” I remember reading or hearing somewhere Mario mentioning how important Dooley was in his development here at KU. To me. the key word here is development. RussRob, Mario, BRush, Sherron, TT, Reed, Bstar, EJ, TRele all developed each year here with Dooley. IMHO, nobody developed like that last year over the course of the season.

The “Joe Dooley factor”? Well…the guy never smiled, never celebrated, had a scowl almost the whole time. He was always talking to Self on the sideline in games. He would watch players on the floor like he was burning a hole through them. He was constantly burning a hole through the score board, then the clip board, then the score board, then back to the clip board. Always working. He always had things to say to the players during timeouts and they listened intently, not staring off in the crowd.

I feel like Self and Dooley were like Batman and Robin, The Lone Ranger and Tonto, etc. I feel like he and Self could play good cop-bad cop to develop a player. One to get their attention and the other to teach, either way didn’t matter. I’m not a Joe Dooley or coaching expert.(and won’t ever claim to be) I’m not sure what intangibles he brought to the coaching staff, but there must have been something.

@HighEliteMajor has posted a lot about Self not ever changing. IMO, he really hasn’t ever had to MOST of the time, until this last year. At least introducing new wrinkles from time to time was enough for us, and the ability to “coach’em up”.

There probably is a lot more to these coaching issues that I just can’t put a finger on yet, and the solutions may be even harder to find. However, I got faith in HCBS’s ability to coach up players, and hopefully his coaches!

So… what do you think? Am I way off base here?

Are we missing the “Joe Dooley factor”?

Will the current coaching staff be able to pick up the slack?

Will the playbook expand this year?

Will execution be better?

Will play like we actually had a scouting report before hand, instead of making it up as we go?

I hope so! It’s time to “pick up the pace, and I don’t mean picante”

@wissoxfan83 I’m not alarmed. I was more concerned before when we were only winning game from the outside. Here is something I posted to slayer on another thread:

I feel your frustration about long ball offense, but I feel the problem is not about focusing on an inside game or outside game. We are just not a good offensive team, inside or out.

We have 3-4 good individual shooters on this team, but they cannot get looks on their own, they cannot catch and shoot good after moving in the offense, they aren’t good at making themselves available as an outlet on fastbreaks, we aren’t good at kicking the ball out drives, we aren’t good finishing drives to make a defense have to suck in just to be able to kick out, and the team can’t set a screen without fouling. They can only hit open looks. They are very deadly at open looks, but not if they have to doing anything but just stand there, get the ball, the shoot it with perfect timing and set feet. Contrast this to other good shooters that we’ve had, B-Mac, Mario, BRush, Sherron. These guys would miss if “too open”. B-Mac was deadly in the “elevator play”, but Greene would probably miss that shot 9 to of 10 times. We haven’t seen anyone knock down a shot on the “chop play” since Conner last year.

I contest the only way to get open looks is to have an inside game that has to be respected, to the point defenders sag off our perimeter guys. Selden got hot for a few games because his defenders were playing off, daring him to shoot. After a couple games they are right back on him, because they know he can’t finish even if he gets around them. And his 3% has gone back to crap.

Notice when we did hit a lot of 3s, all the scoring was perimeter and nothing down low. And notice now that the defenses are pushing our guys out, that Perry’s numbers have gone up. The opposing game plan is now to make Perry have to beat you, and force Oubre, Mason, and Wayne to drive. If we had a good 2 man game down low, then the perimeter open back up.

We just aren’t a good enough team (in many aspects) to get whatever shot we want. We have to take what they give us. I think Self wants our 3 point shooters unleashed, and right now, this late in the season, the only chance is if Perry remains a 20-30 point scorer and we win with that enough that opponents give us back our open 3’s. If Greene wants to make it rain from 3 land in the tourney, and go for 25 a game; then he better be the biggest cheerleader for Perry dropping 30/game from now through the end of the season.

This is a team game. Sometimes it’s not about doing more of your best thing, but minimizing what you’re the worst at. The best thing-shooting outside shots. The worst thing-running an offense (any offense) as a team.

Self is trying to build a better team.

I’m going to take a shot at this pg situation the way I see it IMHO. I’m only going to consider Frank and CF because I just don’t know enough about Graham, so he may be great and make me look like a fool with this post. (of course I may look like one anyway :)) I think most people think that Frank will get the start, but I’m not so sure. I keep going back to the last two games and the play of both CF and Frank and way that played out.

Last years team was a team of a bunch of nice guys. In high school, CF didn’t appear to be a nice guy on the court. He played with the swagger that he was going to Kansas after high school and his opponents were going to work at the factory across town. Then once arriving in Lawrence, he was on a team with a bunch of ultra hyped, high flyers with crazy athletic ability that he would never have. Thus, making him just a shooter and another nice guy teammate to fit in and not a scorer and facilitator. Well, if you’re the best on the floor you have swagger, if not, you better have a chip on your shoulder. I think last year was about HCBS building a chip on his shoulder.

I think that chip finally showed up in that Eastern Kentucky game. He started to show some flashes of HIS game. His first basket that game came on a play where he had the ball on the perimeter, head faked or ball faked (can’t remember), got his defender to overcommit took two dribbles into the lane and knocked down an open 10 footer. In the next game against Stanford, he did it again but this time he drew Wiggs defender into the lane. He came to a jump stop ready to drop off the wide open backdoor to Wiggs, and Wiggs just stood out on the perimeter and didn’t realize the play. Then we see on the last made basket when he knocked down the three after sitting almost the whole half. Self called time out and going to bench CF didn’t make any eye contact with him and coach tapped him on the back of the head going by. I think there was a BIG chip on his shoulder then, and if not, there should’ve been.

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago, Self says that he screwed up and should have play Frank more last season. What? That’s not what everyone was saying right after the Stanford game. So…more chip building, maybe? Or has he regressed back into “nice guy role player” this summer?

Frank, aka, Frank the tank is really not a tank at all. And I don’t buy all the Sherron comparisons. Yeah, they are both fearless and close to the same height but that’s about it. Frank simply doesn’t have the girth in the shoulders and hips that Sherron had. This comes into play on those drives into the lane. Sherron was a bowling ball and when he made contact, the defender moved and he finished the play. When Frank makes contact, Frank moves, and the shot is altered resulting in a miss.

Now Frank is fast, very fast. I think of him more like Tyshawn than Sherron, but Tyshawn’s got about 4 inches on him to help with finishes at the hoop. So…IMHO Frank needs to develop a mid range game of floaters and jump shots and learn to use change of speed on drives to the hoop; in addition to long range shooting and passing. I give Frank a pass on the lack on dishes last year because, as we see in the example with CF, they were playing with other player who couldn’t recognize the play anyway. That should change this year with more experience and hopefully, more leadership from those two making sure teammate recognize the play.

So we see the strengths and weaknesses in both and I’m hoping both made improvements during the summer. Which ever one improved the most should get the nod. If neither improved, well, HCBS is in a bit of a pickle. If both improved, well then, coach got some weapons ready to go!

The big question comes down to effectiveness. Who’s going to be the most effective in the lineups. (more on this later) I guess the point is, Frank doesn’t need to be the next Sherron, he needs to be the first Frank Mason! And CF doesn’t need to be a “nice guy teammate”, he needs to be Conner “Flippin’” Frankamp and play like he’s the best player on the floor even if he’s not. Let’s just hope these guys have the freedom to be the players they are supposed to be.

Ok guys, here it is, tear it apart. But be gentle. Give me your thoughts!

@jaybate-1.0 Hello friend, I haven’t been posting but I’ve been following all season. The thought of delineating our problems to find solution has brought me out of the woodwork, so to speak.

Before the season started we discussed my areas of concern for the season. It appears to me that the things that I was most concerned about have reared their ugly heads.

I broke it down to 3 things: PG play, post play, and most of all coaching staff.

PG play: We still don’t have any perimeter player who can be a vocal leader, traffic controller, coach on the floor type, etc… And who makes other players better, and just makes the easy play.

Post play: Cliff fouls to much to stay on the floor, and doesn’t seem to make staying on the floor a priority. No enforcer in the bunch. No one who prides themselves in just being in an opponents way and making it tough on them. (Kahn was a master at this, and did it with a smile)

Coaching staff: No answer for the loss of the “Dooley effect”

I feel like Self is on an island this year. Nobody on this team, players or coaches, talks as much as he does. And, when others do talk they aren’t really saying anything. Self is extensionless. No extension on the floor. No extension on the bench. He has had teams with more perimeter talent than post talent before. He has had short bigs before. And, that team played inside out, outside in, fast, slow, anyway you what, and used a deep bench. So what gives?

Remember Greene mentioning a few time this year about poor spacing? Others talking about not being in position offensively, defensively, or for rebounds? Doesn’t Cliff just look lost out there? Is anyone showing him (or anyone else for that matter) where to be during the play?

Of course I’m talking about the 08 team. That team featured two guards who took responsibility for running the team and for making adjustments to take advantage of opposing teams both offensively and defensively. If you watch some of those old games, you’ll see RussRob and Mario directing traffic in half court sets, coaching their teammates before and after timeouts, during free throws, and relaying the information to teammate about exactly where to be and what to do if…

They also knew how to take what Self wants and make it work on the floor. I think of it like this: Self and coaches give them the strategy to win, and they came up with the tactics on the fly in the game. Always adapting to what the opponent was doing.

Now I truly believe that coach Dooley taught RussRob and Mario how to do that. How to see the big picture. How to pay attention to their teammates so they could give them a different perspective on how to beat their man, etc… RussRob and Mario learned how important this skill set was to have because they lived through the “Julian Wright Experience”

The “Julian Wright Experience” can be explained by a quote from Mario. (I’m paraphrasing here) “Julian was great, but you never knew what that guy was going to do!”

Today, we have a whole team of Julian Wrights. And since no one knows what each other is going to do, we just stand there and let someone go one-on-one. The problem is we don’t have any RussRob’s or Mario’s to direct traffic, and no coach Dooley’s to train RussRob’s or Mario’s. This team is so quiet. You never see them talking other than celebrating. If you don’t have any individual MUA’s, then you have to somehow develop a unit that is a MUA. I think that is what Self is trying to do. He has the horses, I’m just not sure the horses have the brains to pull it off, yet. Not sure these problems can be fixed this year. Here’s to hoping these issues are address next off season.

You talked about transitioning to the OAD model. Self and everyone not a OAD need to remember the lesson that came from the “Julian Wright Experience”.

Ok, now that I got that off my chest, this is still a championship season until it isn’t!

Rock Chalk!

Bill Self recruiting Illinois; thus the reasoning for adding Snacks to the coaching staff.

HCBS+Snacks=Alexander and more to come!

Well this is my 2nd highest concern leading up to the start of the season. Hopefully all the knowledge and wisdom on this site can address my concerns.

A couple weeks ago I was talking with a gentleman about the upcoming season. I told him that Bill Self has got a stacked deck and should be able to play whatever game he wanted. The more I thought about that, the more I became unsure. First off let me say that, offensively, I believe we’re in good shape. Big Cliff will put up good numbers (if he can stay on the floor), Perry’s numbers should make a jump. Great stuff from @Statmachine to predict Perry’s numbers. If you haven’t looked, check it out. And I expect another jump in Traylor’s numbers also. My concern lies on the other end of the floor defensively.

Like many I look to the 08 squad as a standard, especially this season as this may be the first time since then that we start two post players under 6-10. When the 08 squad faced a big close to 7ft, Kahn could come off the bench to match up and bother that guy defensively. And in the final four, against UNC, I was confident that we could handle Psycho T because we had 16 fouls and 4 big bodies to throw at that guy. But Psycho T wasn’t a footer either. This year we will face some footers, and at least once, we will face more than 1 at a time!

I think Big Cliff will hold his own with guys close to his size, but he needs to stay on the floor and not get fouled up as @drgnslayr said yesterday. Plus, he’s a freshman and you never know about bonehead plays.

Perry…well I think you get what you get with Perry.

And our likely 1st big off the bench is 6-7 Jamari, full of energy and hustle, but is that enough?

Landon and Hunter??? More questions than answers.

So, is Bill Self playing with a deck of 51, or is there an ace in the hole?

Is this team missing a Kahn?

Does this team really need a Kahn?

Did Landon and Hunter travel the world this summer to hangout with some monks, walk on rice paper, and became the chosen ones to stifle all things big with magical basketball kung fu? (I don’t know, it’s late, sorry)

How do we handle the twin towers from the color blind state? (sorry, but I’ve been there and the grass is green, not blue) Maybe we get lucky and the Harrison’s won’t pass them the ball!

How do we handle the big dude from Texas with the permanent mean look on his face, who threw Embiid down with no regard for local littering laws? Maybe with our new up tempo game, we can have him winded and out by the 10min mark! Oh wait, Rick Barnes will find a way to mess it up. Never mind!

And finally, how do we handle some no name footer from a mid-major, who can hit a 15ft. jumper and is money with his baby hook from 5ft in (which he picked up while walking on rice paper halfway around the world :)) and having the game of his life, when we are just starting our quest to dominate the greatest tournament in sports?

Well here it is, my 2nd highest concern for this season. Maybe I’m foolish and nobody shares these concerns. Maybe the wisdom of those found on KU Buckets hold the solutions to all thing troubling those who wear the Jayhawk proudly. May I be enlightened. And may I be asking the right questions.

Give me your thoughts guys! Thanks for reading.

If I had to make a guess as to why Hunter could come to KU, or better yet, stay at KU without much playing time it would be that Hunter understands the reality of his talent and skill level.

If he is going to have a career in basketball it will probably involve coaching somewhere, or playing overseas, or both. If he decides to get into coaching, why worry about maximum playing time? KU has many advantages for guys like that. He gets to see the inner workings of the best basketball program in the country. He gets to play with high profile players and gets to witness how coaches effectively interact with them. He gets to see all aspects of conditioning and skills practice. KU is a complete program. If he stayed at Arkansas, he would be an expert at the “Fastest 40 min of Hell Basketball”, or whatever it’s called, but not know much else.

If he wants to play overseas, he’s a big man and KU is known for making big men better than what they are. KU also has a reputation for guys playing overseas at a high level.

So, IMO, he was very smart to come here. Contribute where you can, work hard, be ready when your number is called, and rejoice in the fact that you are getting the best basketball program education in the world, for free!

@JRyman you are being ridiculous! I’ll tell you what is getting “tiring to read over and over and over again”. You posting all over this site playing some sort of victim role in your head! In your two day rant, you have become everything that you have wrongly accused @HighEliteMajor and many other poster on here of being. You have absolutely missed the forest for the trees. The last two days, everyone on this board has been showing you some grace by “walking on egg shells” around your post, going out of their way to find something to agree with you on, or just ignoring you and the fact that you offended many of us on here.

First of all, I don’t even know why I’m wasting my time with your nonsense, but here we go. Many of us on here feel that Jamari’s over all body of work playing at KU shouldn’t earn him the kind of minutes that he has been seeing this last year. That is based on our opinions, stats, eye test, or maybe just gut feelings. In your post, you said that our thoughts, opinions, and analysis are “BS”. And you also said that we only feel this way because we are “haters”. I believe everyone on this site wishes the best for Jamari and we all hope that he can prove us wrong and have an unbelievable season. I don’t hate anyone. Now I don’t really care what you think of my opinions, but I do care when you accuse me and other poster on here of being “haters” when we clearly are not. Talk about “personal attacks”, huh!

Also in the same post, you accused us of “cyberbullying”. That was another ridiculous comment which ironically, turned to tragically laughable when you not only personally attacked us, but singled out @HighEliteMajor as the apparent lead “hater”. Talk about cyberbullying, singling out someone online to take your frustrations out on. Seriously, go back and read your post. What you have been doing the last couple days is the definition of cyberbullying.

You accuse @HighEliteMajor of “being on a self-appointed soapbox”. The only person who appears to wanting a soapbox to stand on is you! Here’s some advice for you going forward, the only way someone can be on a soapbox is if you give them the box to begin with.

Then to really throw salt in our wounds, when @HighEliteMajor tried to respectfully reply to you, you chastised him for not giving you an apology! Well, we’re all waiting on an apology from you.

@HighEliteMajor I apologize to you. I know you don’t need any help, but you’ve stuck up for me before and I’m returning the favor.

To everyone: There has been a lot of negative post on here directed at and meant to bash @HighEliteMajor 's character. First of all, I enjoy his post and anytime that I’m able to converse with him, as is the same with all of you. I like to share with you a story about a discussion I had with him. I think this was back in the spring, sometime near the end of last season. I can’t even remember what topic we were discussing, but it was a great back and forth. Point, counter point, counter point, etc… Everything stayed very respectful, and I know that the discussion opened my mind to better understand what we discussing, and I think for him too. But, after a lot of back and forth, he still held to his view and I still held to mine. Unfortunately, I knew that I wouldn’t be able to continue the discussion because I would be away from the computer for a while. But I so much enjoyed the discussion we were having that I made one more post to support my side of the issue, and then I sent him an IM to say thanks to him for the conversation and to tell him that he could have the last word because I had to back out. Now this is what meant the most to me, he could have posted a response and won the debate for all of you to see, but he didn’t. Conversation stood there as it was, for all of you to see, with me having the last word. Now I don’t know, maybe he didn’t think it was worth his time to respond to my last post. But, I like to think that maybe he respected me and my argument and didn’t want to win the debate that way with me having to back out of the discussion. He could have showed me up, but he didn’t, and what I found in that debate was more than basketball. It was mutual respect and grace. And I thank him for that.

@JRyman You have been acting like everything that you have been accusing other of, period. Where’s our apologies?

You might think about changing your signature line. How about this one?

"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.”

All this talk about Wayne, IMHO, has everybody comparing apples and oranges and everybody is right about some things.

First off, I only watched the Germany game and just watched it again to verify what I thought I saw the first time I watched it in regards to Wayne’s play. I believe what we saw was traditional Selfball, where there is only 2 positions on the floor, guards and bigs. Which is what he has when he doesn’t have an ubber talented, athletic, traditional, SF on the rooster.

Ask yourselves this, did Wayne actually change positions? Did Wayne really “move” from the “2” to the “3”? No he didn’t. The vast majority of the possessions he played on the left side of the court. The same position on the floor he has always played at KU. His shots came from the same spots on the floor and his drives came from the same floor position as they did last year. I also think that he had the ball in his hands about the same amount of time as he did last year, and maybe a little more. Now there is something to the responsibility of rebounding or getting back on defense, but if the criteria for being the “3” we need is scoring, rebounding, and attacking (as some on here has said) then we might as well have Frank being the “3”!

But @jaybate-1.0 is right. What changed is his role on the team. No more differing to Wigs or Oubre. No more glue guy. He simply moved up the peaking order in scoring options and is getting set plays run for him now.

I’m sorry, I just don’t buy into this whole idea of a “2” and a “3” and such. I believe Wayne benefitted from being healthy and losing some weight. Also from more open court play and no one to differ too, to increase his scoring.

Now as to who starts, Svi or Graham, depends on several different variables. The most important, defense. Another is, whether the starting bigs rotate side to side as Embid and Perry did, or high to low as Perry and Traylor did last year. And who can hit the 3pt from the right side wing. Who shoots the best 3pt% between Wayne, Svi, and Graham. And a whole host of other things.

I really did enjoy watching Wigs and Oubre, however, I really want to see a backcourt much like the 08 team had but I digress.

Just my 2 cents worth, and I wanted to stick up for @Statmachine and others who were getting hammered on this whole position thing. And also support @HighEliteMajor and JB in their points that don’t have to do with floor positioning.

Rock Chalk!

First time I really watched any of his videos closely. Nice left hand, very fluid in transition, and he has a few pretty good post moves! Another thing too, it looks like he has played a lot against guys his size. I’m curious about him being able to hold his position and seal his man down low. But if he can’t very well, he would be a good candidate for the Jeff Withey “slide off spot” (as @jaybate-1.0 named it) post moves.

Thanks @Statmachine for posting these videos and for all your post this summer about recruiting. I stopped checking all the other recruiting sites and just relied on you. You are definitely more accurate. Keep up the good work.

@drgnslayr I’m not sure what percentage. Some teams have more fastbreak possessions and some push the tempo more than others, and therefore take the first open shot before even setting up on offense. Yes we do run set plays out of timeouts and inbound situations depending on the shot clock. But I would say that we run team offense almost all of the rest of the time. Sometimes it may not look like it because the first option on the play may be the best, or they catch defense making a mistake.

There have been many wrinkles over the years to take advantage of different players strengths, but mainly because of having only 1 primary ball handler. Since Wiggins, I think Self has been experimenting on how to use a true NBA “3”, rather than another combo guard. And I have a theory that if say he did want to go back to a 3 combo guard lineup, he would have to wait until this core group of Mason, Selden, Perry, and maybe Svi are gone because they are already 3 years behind the curve of learning it. The core group of 08 only ran the system one way their whole careers, and just kept getting better at it. Since then some things have changed year after year after year. Poor Frank had to learn Wiggyball with 7 footer Embiid, bad ball, and God knows what this year. He wouldn’t know what to think playing without a 6’8"SF out there with him.

I think I’m ready for some good old fashion Self high/low, with combo guards, that is true combo guards.

@Crimsonorblue22 Me too!!! And sorry, ma’am, that’s the first time I cussed in a post. I’ll try not to let it happen again.

@drgnslayr When I talk about the playbook, I’m talking about all the different options and looks that can from our “team offense”. There are so many options that if the players can learn and be efficient there would be no predictability. They could give a different look each time down the floor just through the different options, not to mention changing the tempo within the possession. The possibilities are almost endless. If a defense cheated more to a certain option, then there is always another option from another player to take advantage of that. It does require bigs that can hold their spot on the floor and guards to make the correct, accurate passes with proper timing.

And like you said, “Back in 2008, we had a veteran team that relied heavily on sets and “team offense.” That can work great when you have an experienced team full of great players.” Is that not what we have now, an experienced team full of great players? If that team did in fact have at their disposal 93 options on offense, why doesn’t this one? Does this team even have, say 30 options? And if not, why?

There are plenty of opportunities for players to be creative within the offensive system. And when they are creative in the system, it allows the other players to know what’s going on and be in position for rebounds, kickouts, and putbacks. If your talking about using ball fakes, head fakes, hesitation moves, etc., I’m all for that. And it wouldn’t compromise the system. But, if you’re talking about having a player just go rogue and do his own thing, that will compromise the system and all offensive flow. It would be even worse than everybody just standing around watching Wiggins two seasons ago. And if the offense breaks down and we’re up against the shot clock, we usually call the “4 up” which basically just clearing out for someone to beat their man off the dribble and go to the hole, or kickout, or drop off to a big.

Steph Curry was just an anomaly and we had so many TO’s in that game and didn’t shoot very well from outside, that it was a close game. And in the Memphis game, if it wasn’t for Rose hitting circus shots down the stretch we would have pulled away in that game too.

Speaking of Mario’s bomb, that was a set play. The chop play has like 6-8 different option that can be run off it. Mario hit another 3 off it in the 07 big 12 champ game to send it to overtime the same way. We ran it 3 straight times in the 14’ Stanford game with 3pt shots from 3 different spots on the floor. CF hit one on the wing and in the corner, and of course missed the one at the top of the key. We’ve seen other options from it too. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe we used it in 13’ Michigan game, and it got EJ that baseline drive which he kicked back out for whatever reason. And in 12’ we ran the same variation (sorry can’t remember the game) that got Tyshawn a baseline drive and dunk at a key moment.

So I guess my point is that the “team offense” and “set plays” do work and are more flexible than we may even realize. It’s just the players have to know how to execute. And basketball is their job, so I don’t think it’s too much to ask that they know the plays and can be able to execute them.

@ParisHawk I don’t take that as criticism at all, and you are right with your facts regarding Cole playing time as a freshman. Cole was a “quality big” that could only get less that 10 min/game on that team. You put freshman Cole on last years team and he would probably have been the #2 big behind Ellis. That proves my point. Dumbing down the playbook or not recruiting high fundamental, high BBIQ players at all positions hurts the team’s efficiency further down the road. And for what gain, 2 seasons with win totals in the 20’s? And you are exactly right about Self’s rotations. There is no reason why 5 star, Jr., Selden shouldn’t be able to rotate through all perimeter positions and be effective. If Frank, Devonte, and Svi are better at handling the ball, running the offense, and not giving up more on defense, then Wayne and Greene should sit. I think we’ll see this year that soph Devonte ranked in the 30’s (after reclassification) will be better at all aspects of the game than Jr. Selden, who was ranked 12th. So why is that? Why aren’t our guys progressing in yrs 2, 3, 4 like they used to?

I believe the high school ranking system is way more flawed now than it was then. They give no credit to players who just know how to play the game, have good fundamentals, had dad’s who coached, or came from storied/famed high school programs like RussRob and even Tyshawn. To much is made from hype and highlight films. The guys we have now like Frank, Devonte, Vick, and Bragg have enough talent and size that if they are given the coaching and reps in the system with the full playbook could be something very special trending up as their college years go by.

@jaybate-1.0 I believe you’re right on. The shoeco/agent/runner complex has the ability to stack anywhere it wants to. And when looking at Pitino’s comments, it seems that the NCAA can allow or disallow this to happen and also use this power to their advantage. I see the NCAA as having a Rahm Emanuel/Cass Sunstein like attitude toward this by, “never let a good crisis go to waste”. It appears the NCAA has taken the opinion that “the enemy or your enemy is your friend”, and has joined in the asymmetric warfare being raged against right way programs; and so is only ok with shacking in certain geographical/population center locations. We have stacks in the east (Duke), southeast (KY, and switching over to LSU), and the west (Cal). The only major population center in the central time zone is Texas. The recent regime change tactics were a clear signal to Shaka to go along with the powers that be to stay with the program, because the next stacking will be allowed to happen in central time zone Texas. Alford better get the memo to, UCLA is ripe for stacking and bringing viewership to the NCAA. If the NCAA can control stacking to population centers, then they can back off the bias refs, which is really being exposed and talked about after last years final four.

All this won’t end well for CBB.

So…if we’re not going to be allowed to stack, and if the 08 team was the last team capable of beating any of todays stacks; then why dumb down system for a year and change the BBIQ trajectory of years 2,3,4 of your current players? We ended up with 2 seasons of win totals in the 20’s anyway. I’m hoping that the focus gets back to fundamentals, high BBIQ, and versatility to be able to beat stacks and everyone else. I hope that focus starts with the classes of Devonte and Svi, and adding Vick, Bragg, and was hoping Chukuw. Also hopefully Diallo comes back for years 2,3.

@drgnslayr Yeah, we just didn’t have the post depth that year. That was probably the reason for all the double teaming early in that game. In 08 we had 4 quality bigs and 20 fouls to beat the hell out of Hansbrough.

@drgnslayr I always thought that we win that game if we would have forced unibrow to beat us alone. Much like we did against Durant and Beasley in 07-08. Unibrow’s passing ability out of double teams is what got us so far behind. We could locked down everyone else and forced unibrow to score 40 (which he never had) over a true 7’ footer playing him straight up (which he had never faced before). Instead we let Jones and Lamb beat us.