Anyone watching NBA Playoffs?
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I have watched the game quite a bit actually. It happened before I was born, but ESPN Classic is awesome.
The Sixers started a big lineup with Jones and Dawkins up front with Doc. Hollins and Cheeks were in the backcourt. The Lakers normal lineup was Magic, Kareem, Norm Nixon, Jamaal Wilkes (underrated player) and Chones to match Philly inside. When Kareem went down, LA plugged Michael Cooper in at a forward spot to start. Cooper was a great defender that could match up with Erving and give Wilkes a break on that end.
Caldwell Jones wasn’t as physical as Dawkins, so the Lakers put Magic on him some, although Magic also matched up with Hollins. Remember, Magic was only an average defensive player, so LA often hid him on lesser offensive players on D. In the backcourt that was Hollins - Cheeks would have shredded him. Up front, it was Caldwell Jones since either Dawkins or Dr. J would have gone crazy on Magic.
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Tuned in at the start of OT last night after LeBron had basically given up but caught up on the highlights. Draymond Green may be the most annoying player in the league, and between KD joining them and the evolution of Draymond Greens taunting, I really don’t care for Golden State [Klay Thompson is a quality dude]. I appreciated that LeBron didn’t say anything with lasting bite to it about Smith’s bonehead play. That was a tough one to swallow I’m sure.
While the Stanley Cup is a lot more appealing atm I think I’m rooting for LeBron here. Alright Hercules. Let’s see what you got.
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NOPE
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@approxinfinity I couldn’t believe the way regulation ended. Hill missing a free throw and Smith with his head waaaay up his keister. LeBron was crying about his wasted effort. (Rightfully so- his teammates and the refs robbed him)
12th 50 point game of James career.
Sums it up.
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The last three minutes of regulation were equal parts exceptional and bizarre. I don’t think I have ever seen so much physical play allowed, and so many exceptional plays made, while at the same time seeing incredibly simple mistakes by both teams. Curry over threw Durant on a basic entry pass. Smith dribbling the ball out. Easy missed shots.
I think both the teams and the officials were fatigued at the end of regulation. Lebron played 48 minutes (of 53 possible), but the Warriors main guys also played a bunch. Durant and Curry both played 46 minutes. Green played 47. Thompson played 45 (and he missed time with that injury in the first half). This series may end up being a war of attrition because I don’t think either team can go to their bench very much, which could lead to some weird endings when fatigue starts to set in.
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@BShark lol
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According to Stephen A. Smith the rules should be changed so great players cannot have call go against them as it went against LeBron, even when replays clearly shows he was not set and moved into Durant’s path. SMH.
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I agree with what you said. The Warriors were a fun team to root for but now that all the egos have gotten out of control it has become harder. Green is a clown and a stereotype of what I hate about sports, Durant has gotten caught in the frenzy and not longer what he used to be, Curry’s smugness rubs me the wrong way and Kerr has managed to interject politics into almost everything he say. Klay Thompson seems to be the class act of that team. On the Cavalier side I like Love who seems to work hard despite his bouts of depression, a condition that can be devastating. LeBron, despite his greatness still complains about every call and still is the biggest whiner in the League even when he is at the favorable end of most calls. Tristan Thompson is the latest casualty in the long line of athletes that got involved with the Kardashians and the poor bastard does not realize he is on his way down now. Most of the players in these two team make Marcus Smart seem like a likeable player.
I wanted a Rockets-Celtics final but that is not what we have. Frankly, I don’t know what team I want to win.
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@JayHawkFanToo Go team meteor!
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I hate using slow motion replay to change a call like that in basketball, because block charge involves so much judgment. At the NBA level, no one is ever going to be completely set before contact. Players at that level are just too fast, too agile, and too skilled. They won’t generally just barrel into a player that is set. That’s why block charge is such a difficult call.
Lebron got to the spot above the restricted area in Durant’s path. The baseline official (closest to the play) immediately signaled charge before checking with his other officials. Then they went to the monitor. There was no question that Lebron was not in the restricted area. I hate reviewing that call if you aren’t looking at the restricted area because no one ever comes fully set in the NBA, otherwise someone has already gone around you anyway.
It’s similar to the baseball replay rule that allows you to review a play where the runner beats the ball, but loses contact with the base for a moment on the popup slide. The speed and force of the action means that replay can change a call based on a technicality. If you reviewed every charge in the NBA in slow motion, more than 75% would probably be reversed because in slow motion you can see the player still moving into position because NBA players are skilled enough to change direction in the blink of an eye to avoid contact. You don’t see that at the HS or even the college level because most players just don’t have that physical ability.
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I could tell
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@justanotherfan @JayHawkFanToo @Crimsonorblue22
Yes, he was moving but that shouldn’t have mattered. The question is whether he was in the path in a legal guarding position before Durant started his upward motion, not whether he was still. The announcers and their “expert on call” former ref thought he was there and that it was a charge, and were shocked at the reversal.
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@mayjay this expert
agreed w/the reversal!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I would say roughly 90% of people’s opinions on this call could be accurately predicted by whether or not they have a positive view of LBJ.
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Except for the one ref analyst that said it could have gone either way, before all the replays were available, every other analyst I saw or read indicated that reversing was the right call…except for a Stephen A. Smith that claims superstars should not get fouls called on them. The replays clearly show James not only moving on the path of Durant but even bumping his own teammate…but I am sure you don’t agree because you believe we should all like LeBron and bow to him just because he is such a great player.
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@JayHawkFanToo ouch! Play nice
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@mayjay I’m the 10%, always right too!
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@JayHawkFanToo No, I believe you have decided to keep pressing this type of comment and I think it is very tiresome.
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Imagine how we feel…
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@JayHawkFanToo Drop it. And don’t tell me what I believe.
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I thought the call could’ve gone ether way personally, not having a dog in this fight I thought the refs were terrible last night and I probably won’t watch other game being called like that. People forget as @mayjay said you don’t have to be set for it to be a charge, you have to be in legal guarding position otherwise the bigger players could just plow their way to the hoop without risk of a charge call. I ask our office manager who has been an official in his spare time for 20 years and he agrees it could’ve gone ether way stating most block/charges are judgement calls like a ball/strike call.
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@kjayhawks I keep wondering how team Trae young will do? Could he be killed?
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I’m not a Trae Young fan. But I am interested in the indicators that scouts might look at when assessing Trae’s ceiling.
When we bag on Oklahoma falling apart with Young, I went back and looked at Davidson’s losses in Curry’s last season (2008-09)…
Oklahoma, Purdue, Duke, College of Charleston, Citadel (by 16!), Butler, College of Charleston again, and Saint Mary’s.
Sure, you could argue Oklahoma last year had a better roster than Davidson did with Curry, but there are some pretty bad losses in there.
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@approxinfinity so what do you think?
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@Crimsonorblue22 I think he’s a gifted passer but don’t think he can manage a game, not now, maybe never in an elite capacity. If he can learn to play off the ball then I think he could have a high ceiling playing second fiddle to someone like LeBron. But if he is drafted by a crappy team where he is expected to run the show from day one I think yes he’s going to get destroyed.
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@approxinfinity I think that’s a bad comparison, if I’m not mistaken Curry lost most of his supporting cast from the 08 EE team. I think they pretty just had him after that, I tell you this watching Curry in 08 and Trae last year not knowing what we know about Curry now I’d still take him over Young. Young’s team quit on him last year, I think that was obvious. I do think Young’s game is better suited for the NBA but he has to be more of a team player, ain’t no NBA team gonna let some rook come in and think they run the show.
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@kjayhawks I’m with you. How do you review a judgement call? That’s my only complaint about the call. I can see reviewing foot placement for the ring under the basket, for three pointers, or out of bounds but to review a block/charge?
Unless it’s blatantly obvious the ref was out of position to make the call, why review? And if the ref was out of position, why did he blow his whistle?
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@kjayhawks “… ain’t no NBA team gonna let some rook come in and think they run the show.”
39 years ago that was the big question about Magic Johnson joining Kareem’s Lakers. His versality and personality won everyone over, but most importantly he cared mostly about winning and proved it by setting everyone else up. Sharing the basketball is what endears players to a ball possession teammate. If Trae concentrates on his assists, driving and dishing, and just letting his phenomenal shooting be a constant threat (rather than 1st option), he will have a lengthy and happy pro career because his passing ability is mind-boggling.
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Refs can review the position of the feet to determine if a 2 or a 3 was scored or if the player was out of bounds. The block/charge call is not reviewable…unless the refs are reviewing the position of the feet and only then they can also check if the defender was in position.
What we see on TV is obviously different than what the refs see and sometimes the have a much better view than we do and sometimes their view is blocked by other players and need a replay so they make an initial call knowing they will be reviewing it unless the other refs confirm it was the correct call; this is why they have a meeting and decide if a replay is needed; this is only allowed on the last 2 minutes of the game and OT. The process was created to minimize a bad call deciding a close game at the very end; naturally the rule is not perfect but helps/hurts teams equally. On the replay it was pretty obvious LeBronwas outside the circle but, unfortunately fir him, it was also obvious he was not set in position to take the charge so the block was called. Under the current rules reversing the original callwas the correct call.
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@JayHawkFanToo I think it is weird to let that judgment call be reviewed as an add-on if the justification is to prevent a bad call from deciding the game. Any bad call can change the outcome. Fouls called that don’t actually occur. Goal-tending. A Marcus Smart style flop. Even a travel. If you open the door to one with that justification, I see no reason to not open up others. It is only the last 2 minutes after all.
On the call the other night, I think controversy could be avoided if the rule said an offensive player has to be given room him to take a full step, or say, for him to move 2 or 3 feet when moving toward the basket–enough to realistically change his direction to avoid contact. Even if that had been ruled a charge, as the announcers thought, it would have been based on whether LBJ was in position before the upward motion began. That still would not have given Durant any chance to change direction once he is lifting off his plant foot. Moving the focus to the offensive player’s “realistic opportunity to avoid contact” would avoid encouraging these collisions.
Or just get rid of charge calls inside a larger restricted area.
We might all agree on something–return to technicals for continued bitching and highly demonstrative disgust with calls. Players get fined if they say so much as “that was a bad call” calmly in a discussion with the media, but in a game they go nuts and rave all over the court. This would actually help players, I think. For example, LBJ had reason on a couple of other calls to be unhappy but he then got distracted and missed a defensive possession. I saw Thompson do that, too.
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@mayjay you maybe right to an extent but Young isn’t in the same galaxy as those 2 in terms of talent.
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@kjayhawks Not overall, certainly. But I think he can be as a passer–his court vision is fabulous–but not if he takes his score-first mentality to the League.
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@mayjay the problem I have with officiating in any sport is the same problem I have with moving violations. I would prefer a consistent enforcement of the rules, not arbitrarily reviewing some plays or speed gunning some cars or taking pictures at some lights but not others. Im not advocating monitoring everywhere, just finding a way to be clearly and understandably consistent. A system of rules that is inconsistently enforced is confusing and it’s not hard to find fault in however it plays out.
I feel like the so called “purist” take on keeping human officiating just creates drama and uncertainty. And augmenting the refs with replay in some cases just means that certain cases might now be correct if the ref interprets the replay correctly, while others still are wrong, and the game takes longer, with one team benefiting from these random timeouts. Net effect, the game can still be unfair from a rules enforcement perspective.
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I agree that young is very, very talented. Kruger did him and the Trae young team no favors. I have no idea how he will do, just wanted to hear your thoughts. I heard he gained 11 lbs of muscle and he’s the best player in the draft, or was that porter who said that?
I think he will need to get a lot tougher, both physically and mentally. Such a crybaby, but that fits w/the nba. Does it matter Kruger didn’t have him play D? Can he play off in the passing lanes? What about porter? Can he still play at a high level? I think about the Giles kid, have we ever seen him play?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Trae thinks he is the best player in the draft. He’s not even the best guard, however.
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@approxinfinity Players want the refs to be perfect when they do not foul or are fouled. They are happy when the refs miss their fouls or are undeservedly awarded FTs.
Replay is funny because of the possibility of improved calls vs ridiculous attempt at perfection. I am all for allowing a couple of challenges per game, but not for a 2 minute replay to decide if 3 tenths of a second should be put back on the clock after every play in the last 5 minutes of every game. The NCAA tourney was excruciating with those.
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I really like this perspective from JR Smith:
“That’s pretty much who I’ve been my whole life. I’ve always been the one guy who is the butt of the jokes or the one guy who does something crazy and everybody has got to look at or whatever the case may be. And then I just come back and be myself and play the next day,” Smith said. “I don’t really dwell on things too much. I’ve been like that my whole life, and that’s what it looks like it’s going to continue to be. So I just got to go out there and be me. I told somebody right after the game that I’m glad it happened to me, as opposed to anybody else on my team. To be in that situation is tough, and it’s not a situation that everybody can handle. So I’m glad it happened to me.”
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You know they only called 2 fouls on LeBron the entire game including that reversed call so he really had no reason to complain at all. Not many fouls called, 12 on the Cavaliers starters and 15 on the Warriors.
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@JayHawkFanToo After the strip was called, he started complaining about fouls on the other Cavs and non-calls on the Warriors, exacerbated by the reversed charge call. LBJ played a helluva game but certainly let the refs get in his head, which (with exhaustion, probably, that seemed to affect everybody as I think you said) really diminished his OT performance.
Maybe we should go to playground rules, get rid of refs, and have players call the fouls. Challenges go to replay upstairs, where a group of refs with access to a huge screen vote within a minute of the first replay or their vote doesn’t register. Any call that is reversed results in change of possession, or free throws to the other team, or better yet, 5 mins bench time for the flopping player. Any challenged call that is upheld gets an extra FT. Use Internt’l rules for goaltending and eliminate charge calls altogether.
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I am not sure how much NBA you watch, since I have the NBA TV package,I watch quite a bit so I am fairly familiar withe the players and attitudes. LeBron complains every single time a foul is called on him and every time he thinks he has been fouled and a foul is not called; some players are just built that way. In the current NBA LeBron is in my opinion the biggest whiner of them all; it does not mean he is not good, he is without a doubt the best player in the League and one would think that with all that talent he would just play and quit complaining…you seldom saw Duncan or other great player complain much.
I have no doubt that a lot of dislike of him derives from his “i am perfect and I don’t foul and when I turn the ball over is because I was fouled” attitude. He is not alone in this regard and many of the big names are/were this way even when they get a favorable whistle the majority of the time, Jordan certainly did. See if you can find the video of an interview with Jordan where he details all the tricks he used to get calls like grabbing the shirt of the player guarding him and pulled against him and a foul would be called against the othre player every time and s on.
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@JayHawkFanToo Tim Duncan is the exception not the rule for greats, isn’t he? Most everyone is not as classy as Duncan.
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Yes and no, he did not complain to the refs but often made the face of disbelief that many consider whining. While it is true that a lot of the great ones complain a lot there are also many that do not or did not. I started following basketball in the very early 70s and in all this time I have seen my share of whiners and LeBron might not the biggest of all time but, among current players, he is up there near the top with Dwight Howard and Chris Paul.
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@JayHawkFanToo This face? The man has a large mouth. Makes him look very demonstrative.
Ref, “please don’t eat me.”
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Trae Young is two years younger than Steph Curry was when he entered the NBA. He’s not where Curry is now as a ball handler and passer, but he is certainly ahead of where freshman Steph Curry was. Now, that obviously doesn’t mean that Trae Young will become an NBA all star and MVP. But he is much further along as a PG prospect now than Steph Curry was after his freshman season at Davidson.
We have to remember that Curry was not a major prospect coming out of high school. Curry was not even an NBA prospect after his freshman year, when he averaged 21 points, but less than 3 assists per game.
Curry didn’t average more than three assists per game until his junior year, when it became clear that he could run a team. Young has been doing that since he was in high school, and averaged over 8 assists per game at OU. Curry’s assist to turnover ratio was basically 1 his freshman and sophomore years. Young’s was not great, but it was better than that, and again, he did that as a freshman, while Curry didn’t equal that production until he was a junior.
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@justanotherfan so you think he will be successful?
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@Crimsonorblue22 I should have said “I don’t know” to that question when you put me on the spot. I take back what I said, having had some time to mull over it…I think playing second fiddle to LeBron might break Young’s soul. Running the show on a crappy team where they’re expected to stink for a couple years is probably exactly what he needs.
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He has a quick shot that he can get off in lots of different situations, particularly off the dribble. Being able to shoot off the dribble and in catch and shoot situations, as well as being a gifted passer means that even if he doesn’t develop a real slashing type game at the next level, he can still shoot >40% from three in the NBA while averaging 6-8 assists. That won’t make him an all star, but he can be a good starter with numbers like that.
Can he be a star? That’s a more difficult question because it is difficult for a player that size to be a star in the NBA without having elite athleticism. You basically have to be Steph Curry. He, like most guys his size in the NBA that aren’t super athletes, will be a liability defensively, although he isn’t a bad defender, just that he will be physically overmatched most nights at the next level.
So if “success” means star, or even all star, then no. The chances that he will develop into that combination of player (Steph Curry 2.0) are low. But that’s a pretty high bar for success. I think he can be a good player and a starter on a playoff, championship caliber team. If that is the definition of success, I think he meets that.
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@JayHawkFanToo Go Warriors
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Go Capitals!
