KU BIGS first off the bench.
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Imagine if Traylor improves half as much as he improved from freshman to sophomore season? Last season, Self affirmatively played Traylor over Ellis many times. We all hope that Ellis makes progress. But what if Traylor has made substantial progress? And what if Ellis hasn’t? Both are possibilities, right?
Traylor plays aggressively. Ellis doesn’t. But Ellis is clearly more skilled. It may come down to the old phrase, “Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.”
Ellis is the living definition of a “finesse player.” Does anyone think that Self is entirely pleased by that? I don’t. Self wants tough players. He mentions it all the time. I see a scenario where Self decides that Ellis just isn’t playing the game that Self wants played.
My concerns with Ellis also bleed over to the offensive end. He is a pivot/fall-away type player. He moves away from contact. And he plays smaller than he his because he scrunches down on his pivot. In football terms, Ellis is misdirection, where Traylor is I-Formation.
That said, I do expect the most likely scenario is that Ellis is just fine. If I had to predict our leading scorer, he’d be my co-favorite with Selden.
But if you want Kansas to play athletically and fast, what is your lineup?
Mason, Selden, Greene, Traylor, and Alexander, right? You don’t think “athletic” or “fast” when you think Ellis.
I do think there’s a very plausible scenario where Traylor shocks the world and displaces Ellis.
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@HighEliteMajor like your fast group, maybe oubre and Greene rotate. Maybe graham too- rotate w/Mason?? Interesting combos!
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If Summer Camp reports are to be believed, Ellis has looked great and shown considerable progress. We will find in a few weeks.
If you remember his freshman year, he showed solid fundamentals and nice technique but was missing shots. At the end of the season, he put everything together and played great on the Bi9 12 tournament and onwards. I am hoping that over the summer, he got the various parts of his game in sync and will see a new and improved Perry Ellis come Fall.
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@HighEliteMajor I can easily view Mickelson piling up minutes at the 4/5 slots, some of which come at Perry’s expense. From what we’ve been informed, Mick may not be a finesse guy at all. Anyway I’m hoping he’s more of a Kaun or DJack type guy, with the added dimension of an outside shot. I can also for see HCBS swiftly planting his can back on the pine if the outside shots don’t fall. Habits are hard to break so I can’t imagine Bill’s "quick hook’ to me much different than in years past.
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@globaljaybird said:
not be a finesse guy at all. Anyway I’m hoping he’s more of a Kaun or DJack type guy, with the added dimension of an outside shot. I can also for see HCBS swiftly planting his can back on the pine if the outside shots don’t fall. Habits are hard to break so I can’t imagine Bill’s "quick hook’ to me much different than in years past.
Hate to say it, but you’re going to be sorely disappointed by Mickelson if you think he’ll be anything like Kaun. Kaun was a lot bigger, stronger and more athletic. Mickelson was a pretty good shot blocker at UArk, though foul prone, but from an offensive standpoint… well, what offense? He could finish a lob or get the occasional stickback, but he had no back to the basket game. As for his face up, his J is okay out to 15 feet, but he lack’s a triple threat game, so unless he’s being sagged on in a zone, don’t expect him to be punishing teams face up.
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@konkeyDong Certainly not one to disagree, but the above post says “I’m hoping.” I’ve not seen the before or after & don’t know who has.
Also here’s to hoping we’ll both be pleasantly surprised at his improvement under Norm, Bill, & Hudy in opposition to his tutelage under the “40 minutes of whatever” format in Anderson’s Arkyville program. The spin is that his vertical has increased considerably since here & maybe that translates positively to our benefit. Self has many options at the 4/5 spots with his group this year & that doesn’t include playing smaller than Ellis at the 4, which most believe is quite unlikely.
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"I’m hoping to see a remake of the bruise bros, w/Mari and Cliff. "
I love the way you think!
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@drgnslayr I’m counting on you to write that up- your project!
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If Hunter really has increased his vertical by 5 or 6 inches then he will be a totally different player from his Arkansas days.
His scoring potential changes completely because that many vertical inches means a juxtaposition ON TOP of his former scoring position (ball release).
This changes his potential for scoring with his back to the basket. He still has to have technique and touch, but his release platform just went up half a foot!
He is really our big mystery post player. Maybe his increased athleticism hurts his touch for a while… maybe not!
Some guys are naturals when it comes to back to the basket scoring… others just never get it. You’ve got to establish your position while guards reach in and take swipes at the ball, while you start your scoring move. There is so much that has to happen, and the key for most post players is to catch the ball while already starting to make their scoring move. Give no time for help defense to disrupt his movement and movement options. How many guys have we watched fail at this? Remember back to a young Withey. He would catch the ball and stall out, while bringing the ball down for help defense to swipe at.
I don’t know why it is… that so many post players pause with the ball and wait for the defense to give them the sign that they are set and ready to defend. That has been one of the greatest mysteries in basketball that I have never found an answer for.
Certain players, like Kareem, fed off of his pause because he could pass well and he could protect the ball well in the post. Problem is, everyone seems to think they are the next Kareem!
I really loved to watch Olajuwon! He mixed up his timing on every single possession. I also believe a big part of what should make Embiid successful is that he understands the need to mix up his timing in the post. He’s watched probably every single piece of footage on Olajuwon he could get his hands on.
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I’d be happy to… when the season starts and we see the beginning of the bruise brothers together!
You can bet it will be mentioned hundreds (if not thousands) of times.
The first time we see Perry play soft we’ll see Bam-Bam replace him and the beginning of a synergistic relationship with Cliff.
I can hardly wait!
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@drgnslayr maybe, just maybe, Perry will be a new bam bam!
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@drgnslayr Always perplexes me too. So many guys cannot make a move without putting the ball on the floor maybe that is indicative of a me first approach to their game, or lack of confidence/ability to make any move at all. IMO that’s why Joel was so special-his moves & drop steps without putting it down. Very few guys are just so natural & can nail that part of the game. When a footer or big puts it down he gives up all advantage over the six foot guards & is stripped more often than not, he’s slower, dribbles much higher off the floor, & yada yada. That was about fundamental #1 when I learned the game. Some bigs have that ability & many never will.
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@globaljaybird
I think the tendency to want to dribble comes from so many players now learning to play facing the basket as opposed to a back to the basket traditional post up. There aren’t many Shaq’s or Moses Malone’s out there who can go down to the block, carve out space without using their upper body and score from that spot. Most guys have to turn and face, then make a dribble move because they can’t get to the sweet post spot just by using positioning (and because the initial post up is called more closely now than it was even 15 years ago).
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Interesting post from all!
I’m not sure how all this will play out. Last year, Embiid scored most of the time by taking his man one on one, or two, or three, however many they threw at him.
Perry seemed to score in the flow of the offense, catching the ball on the move on ball reversal and a few one on one when he had the MUA. Jamari seemed to be an opportunistic scorer. Put backs, loose balls, being open because his man helped somewhere else, scoring in transition. Toward the end of the season, we saw Mari score on drives to the basket when he had a MUA. Unless the offensive scheme is to get the ball to him, then his game will be much like it was last year. I’m not really sure how Mari’s game would translate if he was ever a focal point.I haven’t seen enough of Big Cliff to know which category his game falls into. Is he creative and skilled (and polished) enough to be a focal point on offense, or will he be an opportunistic scorer? Hard to tell from his highlight videos. My guess is somewhere in between.
Of course Bill will run the good ol’ high/low, but it will probably look a lot different this year in the way it’s executed. My hope is that we have enough scoring threats all over the floor that the post player don’t feel burdened and have to force anything. And vice versa!
Defensively, I’m hoping Hunter or Lucas will be able to fill a roll similar to what Kaun (notice I spelled that right this time ;)) did. Whenever an opposing big got into a rhythm against us, he would come in and just bother the crap out of the that guy. He didn’t blanket people, but he would keep them from their spots, mess up their timing, and I think it messed with their head. After 3-4 possessions of this, then Kaun would score on them and it was like he took their heart. And did it with energy and a smile!
I like the idea, that defensively we could throw different looks at opposing bigs. This group will be interesting to watch this season.
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@jayhawkbychoice Mari also had a few- not many, jump shots. It surprised me! I know he took it to heart how teams left him open to double team wigs. I’m hoping to see more jump shots from him! I want it for him, like so many of us do.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yeah I want it for him as well. It will be interesting to see what his (and everybody else’s) role will be on this team.
Perry, Jamari, and Cliff just seems like a short (in height) rotation to me, so I think one of Hunter and Lucas will have an impact on someone’s minutes.
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@jayhawkbychoice I have no idea how Hunter will do, none. Only what I read.
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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24716942/looks-like-wilt-chamberlain-is-finally-getting-his-stamp Speaking of bigs, none better!
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http://ballislife.com/17-year-old-wilt-chamberlain-catching-a-shot-running-the-fast-break/ Really awesome!
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@konkeyDong Interesting take on Mickelson. It squares with everything I’ve read and with a review of his Ark stats. There have been no comments or info that he was a stud in practice, or that he’s a guy to watch, which is somewhat informative. At the scrimmage last season, the one thing I noticed was that his shot from the outside was real flat. But really, the dude is an unknown. Unless he’s a completely different player, no way he displaces Ellis or Traylor from their roles. Competing with Lucas for the 4th big spot.
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@HighEliteMajor Hey, his numbers are on the rise, especially playing 1 on 1 against 12 year olds.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Thanks for the link. Good read. And thanks to @bskeet for the edit.
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@approxinfinity Judging by the kids shoes, he’s an OSU fan. I hope Hunter goes all “Big Bore” and posterizes this kid!
(Just fun, no malice intended)
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Assuming Alexander starts at center, how many minutes do you expect him to play? I am not sure how good his conditioning is, particularly if you consider he carries 240+ pounds, plus the foul situation will also come into play. I see him playing around 20 MPG, at least at the start of the season with Mickelson and/or Lucas getting substantial time at Center. Thoughts?
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@JayHawkFanToo I think what you have suggested is a realistic expectation of a freshman. It seems perfectly reasonable that Alexander will have significant ups and downs, perhaps even some Tarik Black like games where he is a complete non-factor. We should expect that.
I personally think that Self could start Ellis and Traylor early, with Alexander displacing Traylor as a starter pretty quickly. But I also think that Traylor could play more effectively than Alexander. I don’t think that’s a stretch. And that Self would favor Traylor over Alexander many times.
I will be surprised if Self makes much of a distinction between “power forward” and “center:” Meaning, if Lucas and Mickelson are 4th and 5th guys (in whatever order), they will likely be 4th and 5th when it comes to p.t. This season will certainly give us an insight into Self’s view of the position distinction. We know in 2008 he played two PFs most of the minutes, but the C (Kaun) was the clear first big off the bench. Right now, we don’t have that.
Personally, I thought that Lucas gave us some pretty quality minutes when he was in last season. But it seems obvious that Self seems him to be low on the totem pole. I do agree that either he or Mickelson could pick up significant p.t., but I think that Traylor may be the bigger beneficiary of p.t. if Alexander isn’t a 30 mpg guy.
Would it be surprising if we saw Ellis play 28 minutes, Alexander 25, and Traylor 20? That might even seem conservative. Even with that, there would be only 7 minutes left for Mickelson/Lucas (80 minutes total for 2 post players).
Where do the minutes come from? I think at best, the 4th perimeter guy is around 10 mpg. Minutes are tight.
Would be interested in others’ thoughts.
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I believe the college game in many ways follows the NBA trends and now there is very little distinction anymore between PF and Center. Many players that we commonly think of as being centers, such as Pau Gasol, Duncan, Faried, Ibaka. West, Stoudemire, Aldridge, Love and Griffin are actually PFs; not a lot of players in the NBA are listed as pure Centers anymore. The only true Centers KU has had recently were Aldrich and Withey. FWIW, none of the players on the official KU roster is listed as “Center.”
My best guess is that Ellis plays 30 minutes, Alexander and Traylor split 40 minutes and Mickelson and Lucas split 10 minutes, all 3 estimates are +/- 5 minutes.
