College Coaches Better Than Self
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@jaybate-1-0 recent musings had me wondering.
Trying only to think of coaching ability, and not recruiting.
I’d certainly put Jay Wright ahead of Self. I’d lean towards putting Belein ahead of Self as well.
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If Jay wins another championship you can start to go there. Until then, Imo the only active coach I think is better is K.
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K is just a recruiter at this point.
Jay is doing a lot with not a ton of NBA talent and he really embraces the modern game.
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I just pray
Coach Self never ever writes a letter to former boy Billy Self and reads it on national tv.
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I understand your respect for both of those coaches. They are good coaches on a par with Bob Huggins, though Wright has a ways to go to match Bob’s longevity.
But no one seriously thinks Huggins is better than Bill Self, and should also not think Bellein and Wright are either.
Am I recalling correctly? Self has beaten both Bellein and Wright and been beaten by both.
Even if he hasn’t beaten both, his overall record and his record at KU really exceeds theirs IMHO.
Where might this perception they are better than Self come from?
IMO Jay’s reputation depends largely on his ONE ring, which Self had LONG before he did. And Jay’s ring at least appeared more of a default entertainment value biasing the year the favorite EST teams crapped out, than attributable to Jay’s coaching IMHO. Maybe it wasn’t, but regardless it made me wish KU could have had a seeding path and whistles comparable to Nova’s.
Self by contrast won his 08 ring against a team with reputed ringers lead by a future NBA #1 draft choice (a reputed ringer) who became an all pro PG prior to injury. And Self’s team had to overcome a raft of FTAs awarded Memphis down the stretch to boot!! Big edge to Self IMHO.
Jay’s 17 year winning rate at Nova is .711 and was much worse before the Big East was gutted. All but 1 of his 30 won seasons came AFTER the Big East became little more than a mid major conference arguably not much better than the MVC. Wichita State has seemed as good or better the last several seasons, but did not appear to get as much seeding and whistle love as Nova and Jay, and so did not win a ring.
Overall, Jay is .676.
Overall Jay is no where near Self’s .766 overall and .824 at KU attained in a power conference. Also Jay has not won 14 consecutive conference titles. Without the apparently suspect ring, Jay would not even be mentioned in the same breath with Self IMHO.
Bellien’s claim to fame is two final fours, neither of which he won. Self has been to two also and he won one. Bellein has never won a ring. It doesn’t mean he isn’t as good as Self, but it has to go into the weighing scale. Bellein is a good, but not great, coach and has proven it at WVU and now UM, where he has gone .634 and .635 respectively. He just has never come close to Self’s level of winning and consistency, nor string of conference titles. He has only had 2 30 win seasons in 11 years at UM. Self has had 9 30 win seasons in 15 years at KU and has lost 10 games only 1season. Bellein has lost more than 10 games 7 of his 11 seasons at UM. And lately he has benefitted from Ryan leaving UW, Indiana imploding, and Izzo no longer being able to play unlimited bang ball, nor being able to recruit as much talent as he used to.
Finally Self is .714 in tournaments in 63 tournament games. Bellein is .676 in only 34. Wright is .617 in only 34. Sizable edge to Self.
In summary, I don’t see Williams or Bellein as being close to as good as Self. I think the only reason aliases find them compare is that each has beaten Self once in the Carney when Self was thought to have the better team. Now, right there one should cock one’s eyebrows and ask, “Why did they beat Self’s supposedly superior teams in the Carney even once each, when Self’s regular season and post season numbers are so vastly superior?
Rock Chalk!
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BigBad said:
K is just a recruiter at this point.
Jay is doing a lot with not a ton of NBA talent and he really embraces the modern game.
This is what I’m getting at. K has NBA studs funneled to him.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
I just pray
Coach Self never ever writes a letter to former boy Billy Self and reads it on national tv.For real.
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Bill pre-EE is probably as good Xs and Os as anyone. And, I think once he gets that monkey off of his back we will see him roll off several FFs in his last years here. We wouldn’t be discussing this if Bill wins the Nova game two years ago.
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@Kcmatt7 True but Wright clown suited Self in that game. So that has to be noted.
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@BShark Agreed. Jay has choked in the tourney really hard until just recently though as well. I’m excited for the home and home these next two years.
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I’d love another crack at Nova…
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BShark said:
I’d love another crack at Nova…
Got it!
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Well everyone talks of how we choke, Dook has 3 straight #1 recruiting classes with 1 elite 8.
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kjayhawks said:
Well everyone talks of how we choke, Dook has 3 straight #1 recruiting classes with 1 elite 8.
Could you imagine the narrative if it was ANYONE but Duke?
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BShark said:
@jaybate-1-0 recent musings had me wondering.
Trying only to think of coaching ability, and not recruiting.
I’d certainly put Jay Wright ahead of Self. I’d lean towards putting Belein ahead of Self as well.
Still trying to come up with one…
