Big 12 down
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Well this is suppose to be a down year for the Big 12. - -Ku is just about every one’s 'pick to take yet another conference championship. - - hmmmm , 102-16 in the non-conference
I really like what another poster had to say which was
I’d be curious to see what a conference looks like that’s " up " this year since the Big 12 has 60 % of it’s teams in the top 25 and 80 % receiving votes in a " down " year headed into conference. - -hell ya couldn’t be said any better- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Paper tiger per usual.
This post is sponsored by el poyo’s fried chicken. It’s finger lickin good.
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BShark said:
Paper tiger per usual.
This post is sponsored by el poyo’s fried chicken. It’s finger lickin good.
lol - - lol – -lol - -you quite the comedian tonight huh Boss keep them coming big boy we got pleny Mo where that came from roflmao - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@whipperboy73
Who say the conference is down?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
@whipperboy73
Who say the conference is down?
hearing a lot of the broadcasters talk during the game about how the Big 12 just doesn’t look as strong this year and ya/da - -ya/da- -ya da - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@whipperboy73
Sorry, I have not heard that for a while now. All the computer rankings have the Big 12 as the top conference and is not even close.
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I re-watched the Kentucky game and Vitale said “The Big 12 is way-way down this year and KU will continue their phenomenal streak of Consecutive conference wins.” This was said very early in the season. Oklahoma had lost it’s best player to injury last year and was still ahead of KU in the second half by 12 pts. until Frank took over. Anytime you have to face Huggins , Kruger, and Dixon, you better be prepared.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
@whipperboy73
Sorry, I have not heard that for a while now. All the computer rankings have the Big 12 as the top conference and is not even close.
Hell every single time I’m watching almost any game they talk about it at one point or another - doesn’t matter if it’s a big 1 game they are broadcasting or not - -most of the time it’s not - not really sure how you have missed it - -really prominent - every single time or really close they throw it in - -either half time report or during the game. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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wrwlumpy said:
I re-watched the Kentucky game and Vitale said “The Big 12 is way-way down this year and KU will continue their phenominal wtreak of Consecutive conference wins.” This was said very early in the season. Oklahoma had lost it’s best player to injury last year and was still ahead of KU in the second half by 12 pts. until Frank took over. Anytime you have to face Huggins , Kruger, and Dixon, you better be prepared.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again when the Big 12 got Jamie it really was a nice get for the Big 12 as a whole & a huge pick up for TCU - I have always thought he was a pretty good Coach and now it’s starting to pay off for TCU. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@whipperboy73
Too much hype around Dixon. His last 5 seasons at Pitt he finished 13th, 4th, 5th, 9th and 9th with only 2 NCAA appearances. TCU finished 7th last season and missed the NCAA. I understand TCU is doing well so far but let’s wait until he finishes in the top half before we call him a great get for the conference.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
@whipperboy73
Too much hype around Dixon. His last 5 seasons at Pitt he finished 13th, 4th, 5th, 9th and 9th with only 2 NCAA appearances. TCU finished 7th last season and missed the NCAA. I understand TCU is doing well so far but let’s wait until he finishes in the top half before we call him a great get for the conference.
just a difference of opinion you don’t think he is - - I think he is - -he is bringing TCU back to some sort of respectability. - ya, he didn’t make the Tourney, he DID when the NIT and hasn’t lost this year either, had competitive games last year, that without him there would not of been.
He instantly upgraded recruiting we need Coaches like Jamie you don’t like it - - I like it plain and simple, we both have our opinions it’s ok. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Jayballer54 I"ve always respected Dixon from afar. BUT, his coaching and the fact that he’s a Big East transplant is a big part too. Don’t sell the B12 short either. DIxon came to the B12 for obvious reasons. It was a win, win for Dixon and the B12.
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I don’t think the Big 12 is nearly as good as the computers say the Big 12 is. The Big 12 has probably 2 marquee nonconference wins all season and that would be Kansas over Kentucky in the Champions Classic and Oklahoma over Wichita St. Name an impressive win the Big 12 has outside of those two games?
The reason why the Big 12 is as strong in the computers as it is this year is because there’s not a lot of bad losses for the Big 12 this year. KSU has a real bad loss to Tulsa, Iowa St. has a real bad loss to UW-Milwaukee and those are the only 2 sub RPI 100 losses the Big 12 has in conference so far. I believe KU’s loss to Washington is the 3rd worst loss any team in the Big 12 has based on RPI.
Say what you will about the RPI, but that’s still one of the biggest tools the NCAA Tournament selection committee uses to compare teams and to base who gets in the tournament.
I still think the Big 12 is legitimately down from years past, but with the lack of marquee games the league played this year, it really masked a lot of the deficiencies of the Big 12 this year. TCU is undefeated because they haven’t played anybody, Texas Tech is where they’re at because they haven’t played anybody this year. Nevada is the best team each of those teams beat this season. TCU is a good team, but they haven’t been challenged yet this year. SMU is the closest to a major conference team they’ve played this year and they only play that game because it’s a rivalry game.
The Big 12 could get anywhere from 4-7 teams in the tournament this year, I’ll say 6 teams get in and we could possibly see all of them get knocked out before the weekend. I think KU, WVU, and OU are all good enough to make runs, but I don’t think all 3 will and it’s possible none of them do.
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truehawk93 said:
@Jayballer54 I"ve always respected Dixon from afar. BUT, his coaching and the fact that he’s a Big East transplant is a big part too. Don’t sell the B12 short either. DIxon came to the B12 for obvious reasons. It was a win, win for Dixon and the B12.
Exactly, my sentiments right along with yours. I mean I don’t personally know the guy by far , but I just think he is a plus for the big 12, like you said he carries the East Coast aura - -came back to his alma mater - I think he is going to - -IS doing good things for TCU - -the better Coaches we have in this league the better for the league. - I think we have a pretty strong stable of coaches this league just going to keep getting better and more competitive in the future.
This is good for KU be challenged by stronger more competitive - -Beard at Texas Tech - Jamie at TCU - -couple of fresh faces, - -who knows how it will turn out for the new Coach at Okla st - love the competition. - - right now Jamie has the longest winning streak in the nation. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Where did you get that I don’t like Dixon? I did not say anything like that. I simply said let’s wait until he finishes in the top half before anointing him as the next great coach. Yes, he has improved TCU but winning the NIT is not at the level of making it to the NCAA Tournament; let’s face it, you win the NIT because you could not get to the dance.
TCU is unbeaten because of a very soft schedule. Other than a win over Nevada and maybe SMU they have nothing but teams they should have beaten anyway. Let’s see how they do against OU and then we will talk.
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In many ways Dixon situation is similar to that of one Orlando “Tubby” Smith who resigned from Kentucky one step ahead of being fired. Even when he had won a Title (with Pitino players) the program had gone down and donors and fans were ready for a new coach. Since he left Kentucky, I don’t believe he has had a single season with a winning conference record in the Big 10, Big 12 or American Athletic Conferences.
Look at Dixon’s record for the previous five years and you will see that the program was not nearly as good as it was in his previous years (complacency???) and he was one below par season away from getting the boot. At TCU he inherited a programs that had gotten new facilities and was beginning to improve and as the bottom team in the conference had nowhere to go but up. Win-win situation for an alumnus getting ready for a new start.
I never cared for Tubby Smith and always thought he was overrated; I do like Dixon and I believe he is a better coach than Tubby.
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@JayHawkFanToo Dixon is like Snyder was when he first started at Silo Tech. The Kitties were so desperate for success, the first time he won 6 games, they were ready to build a statue of him. Dixon is going to look great simply because TCU has never done anything in basketball for many, many years. However, I have a friend who is a Pitt Alum, and they were ready to run Dixon out on a rail. He HATES him with a passion.
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If the stat packers say the B12 is
, and the fake sports newswers say the B 12 is 
; then the answer is obvious.Betting is out of balance and the fake newsers are just serving their masters, as usual.
Extra, Extra, Extra! Read all about it! Big 12 is way down. Come and balance the betting now!!! Extra, Extra, Extra!!!
(Shaking head)
Never give a sucker an even break!
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@wrwlumpy “I re-watched the Kentucky game and Vitale said”
Consider the source.
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Exactly. It was the second game of the season and Vitale does not follow the Big 12; he is an ACC or more specifically a Duke groupie.
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@JayHawkFanToo Oh boy. look it is just plain and simple, you don’t think he is that much of a Coach and that’s fine - you talk soft schedules? - - ya he has a sof schedule, I think you would be hard pressed to find a lot of schools that don’t have soft schedules - other directional schools or they blue bloods won’t play solid competition on an opponents home floor it just ain’t happening.
I don’t know why it is people here seem to think I’m trying to debate or utter disagreement with them.
This is a forum - I don’t care if YOU think Jamie has done a lot or not. That’s YOUR opinion and I have no problem with that - -that’s great , good for you , everyone is entitled to their opinion, you have your opinion - -I have mine - -doesn’t mean we have to agree - - it’s discussion , doesn’t mean let’s see who can get in the last barb or say.
I happen -to think Jamie is a very good Coach - and whether you wanna believe it or not - there ARE quite a few others that feel the same - he for sure is a hell of a lot better Coach then what left there.
Whether it was the Nit or not - he Still won, there was ALOT of very good teams that didn’t make the tourney - a lot goes into that and a lot of it is how your playing at a particular time. - He won a title? - -did we win a post season title of any kind last year? - -Don’t be a hater - -hate the game. - -Why people wanna just try and barb back and forth - -I’m glad you have your opinion - -you made that clear, I have no problem with your opinion - -I will continue to have mine bottom line. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I will be perfectly hones with you, I have no clue what your point is. I did not say Dixon was a bad coach; in fact, I said that I liked him and he was better than Tubby Smith. Again, I am not sure why you are attributing to me opinions that I did not express.
I likened Dixon’s situation to that of Tubby Smith because both had success initially but the programs seemed headed in the wrong direction, perhaps they became complacent and did not work as hard as before…who knows. In the end, both were close to be fired when they chose to leave; Smith was probably a lot closer while Dixon another sub-par year away. I also indicated that moving to TCU was good move since it gave him a chance to start fresh with a program with nowhere to go but up. I am not sure what else I can add to it.
We both have opinions that at times are different and are just that…opinions, and unlike facts, they cannot be right or wrong just different. At no time I said you could not have an opinion or that you have to agree with me, I simply stated mine that happens top be different than yours and I still don’t see what the issue is.
Please re-read my posts and if you have questions please don’t jump to conclusions, just ask.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I will be perfectly hones with you, I have no clue what your point is. I did not say Dixon was a bad coach; in fact, I said that I liked hm and he was better than Tubby Smith. Again, I am not sure why you are attributing to me opinions that I did not express.
I likened Dixon’s situation to that of Tubby Smith because both had success initially but the programs seemed headed in the wrong direction, perhaps they became complacent and did not work as hard as before…who knows. In the end, both were close to be fired when they chose to leave; Smith was probably a lot closer while Dion another sub-par year away. I also indicated that moving to TCU was good move since it gave him a chance to start fresh with a program with nowhere to go but up. I am not sure what else I can add to it.
We both have opinions that at times are different and are just that…opinions, and unlike facts, they cannot be right or wrong just different. At no time I said you could not have an opinion or that you have to agree with me, I simply stated mine that happens top be different than yours and I still don’t see what the issue is.
Please re-read my posts and if you have questions please don’t jump to conclusions, just ask.
ok we are good to go, we both agree that these are just opinions. - now I’ve got to focus on trying to see if we can pull this game out tomorrow night - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo Dixon and Tubby are two different situations. Dixon expanded on what Ben Howland did at Pitt and had the Panthers as a legitimate top 10 team for a 3 year stretch from 2008-09 to 2010-11. After that is when Pitt plateaued, then it became in the best interest of both parties to move on. I would say Dixon had 3 mediocre to bad years at Pitt during his 13 years there. He won 73% of his games overall and 64% of his conference games. Those are good numbers. I would easily consider Dixon a top 25 coach in the country based on his resume.
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I was referring to both coaches having their programs start to regress and leaving before being fired, like I said Tubby more so than Dixon. The last 5 years at Pitt were below average and now Dixon has a unique opportunity to show how good he is; a top half finish in the conference would show real progress.
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@JayHawkFanToo TCU had won 6 Big 12 games total in their first years in the league. Dixon won 7 Big 12 games including the tournament win over Kansas last year. He also more than doubled their win total from the previous season in his first year.
That’s major immediate progress no matter how you look at it.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@JayHawkFanToo TCU had won 6 Big 12 games total in their first years in the league. Dixon won 7 Big 12 games including the tournament win over Kansas last year. He also more than doubled their win total from the previous season in his first year.
That’s major immediate progress no matter how you look at it.
Correction, TCU won 8 games in the conference prior to Dixon, 10 if you count the conference tournament; Dixon won 6 games, 8 if you count the Tournament and finished 7th and a trip to the NIT with some pretty decent players he inherited and 2 he recruited, Fisher and Bane, that were the 4th and 6th players on the team. Like I said, he inherited a decent team with nowhere to go but up and brand new facilities. He has made good progress, there is no denying it, but with his recruits and a veteran team let’s see if he can finish in the top half of the conference.
P.S. KU did not have Jackson when it lost to TCU. Just sayin’…
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Computer rankings are so flawed. Halfway into a season so it could still change a ton. and it doesn’t take into account injuries, off nights or how schedules are built. Just the opponent. The big 12 being the “best” conference 5 years in a row buy 0 Championships is proof that these rankings are flawed.
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The Big. 12 is the most balanced conference. That makes all the games competitive. The bulk of the conference is ranked 10-40 so the teams are good, but there aren’t multiple elite teams in the Big12. That’s how the ACC wins so many championships- when Duke is down UNC is good and vice versa. Who picks up the weight when KU is down? Who pushes KU to be better in a good year? I was hoping that would be Hoiberg at ISU.
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@JayHawkFanToo we don’t have him this year either.
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We did not have Doke either and this year we don’t have Mason or Lucas. I was simply pointing out that the win was agains a KU team at less than full strength. This year KU’s team is quite different than last year, probably not as good at this time but can get considerably better once Silvio and Cunliffe start to contribute and more so if Preston becomes available.
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@Jayballer54 I agree about the competition. We’ve had and have some soft coaching. I really think we’ve been hurt by not being challenged over the years with some stiff competition. We’ve only had marquee players over the years, but coaching has been lacking. Many may not like Kruger, but I saw OU getting Kruger from Las Vegas way before he arrived in Norman. Kruger was a great grab by OU and the best coach, next to Billy Tubbs. The Dixon grab was good, but didn’t know how he would translate in the B12. Huggy is tough as nails, and they have actually made KU better. Now, we have ISU, OSU, KSU, and UT that are all ‘down’ with coaching. I was really hoping that Brad Underwood would stay around and disappointed when he bailed so early. I’d like to see Arkansas join the B12. They have really improved over the last few years.
I’ve never been a Shaka fan, and it wasn’t the whole VCU/KU thing. I blame KU, and have never given Shaka any credit for that win. KU made Shaka’s career after that stupid win. Unfortunately, KU has given Hurley and ASU new life. How about a B12 team getting Bobby Hurley as a head coach? Maybe KSU or OSU? Hurley does come from some bball pedigree. Another good get for the B12 if he ever became available from UCLA would be Steve Alford. It would be ironic if he went to TT, haha following Bobby Knight, but hopefully with better success. I think Jim Larranaga would be a good grab for a B12 school too.
I digress…thanks for the coaching inspiration that could make the B12 even better.
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@dylans Agree with Hoiberg, but Prohm has been a fair fix for now. I see them getting someone of Hoiberg’s coaching prowess soon.
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@JayHawkFanToo Tubby just never quite recovered after UK, and just didn’t translate. Dixon is resonating and this is his breakout year as a B12 coach. I see him only getting better. We will be competing for recruits in Texas with Dixon at TCU. Once again, a football school making noise in bball. IT can be done. If a football school can be as good in bball, then a bball school can be good in football, hello Zenger. Watch what other programs are doing in their departments. They expanding their school’s image by getting good coaches. If they can do it, you can do it too. NOW, do it, and do it soon. Hell, look at OU Kruger and Lincoln. It can be done.
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I would rank the Conference coaches as follows:
- Elite coaches - Self, Huggins Kruger, their records speak for themselves.
- Top tier but not quite elite- Dixon, Drew and Weber. Most of us don’t care for Drew or Weber but Drew has made Baylor relevant and kept it as a consistent too 25 team. Might not like Squeaky and he can’t recruit or keep players in the program but he can flat out coach.
- In between - Prohm, he has done well with Hoiberg players and he is coming along; not quite the mayor but not bad.
- Still too earl to tell - Boynton and Beard; we shopuld know more after this season.
- Overrated - Smart. So far he has shown that he reached his level of incompetence when he joined a major program. Worst W-L record among conference coaches at 51.3% and it is not even close, next is Weber at 61%
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Prohm has been very good for ISU, not quite the mayor but few would be. Having said this, there is a chance the mayor comes back to ISU; his stint in the NBA so far has not been good and Bull’s fans are just about out of patience. This year (0.353) they are way behind the previous two years when they were a 0.500 team. Uunless they make a run they will finish out of the playoff, again, and Hoiberg will be history.
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@JayHawkFanToo Who freaking cares if JJ didn’t play in that game. The point is Jamie Dixon did far more in his first year at TCU than they had done in a long time. He inherited some good players, good for him, doesn’t chamge that they won 12 games the year before and only 2 Big 12 games that year.
I don’t need to wait for him to finish in the top half of the league today he’s a good coach. The man had Pitt consistently competing for Big East titles over his 10 years. Even his mediocre last 3 years weren’t terrible. He still finished with a winning ACC record in his 3 years with Pitt in that league.
There’s very few programs out there that wouldn’t take Dixon as their coach. The man has a 73% career winning percentage that is top 10 among active coaches right now.
If you can’t look at what he’s accomplished and say that he’s very good coach, then finishing in the top half of the Big 12 isn’t going to really change your mind on the matter at this point.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I care a little bit.
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No need to get upset, it is just a friendly discussion in a sports forum.
I never said Dixon is not a good coach, I said and I still believe he is just not elite. Is Dixon better or equal to Self, Huggins and Kruger? In my opinion, no. Would KU hire Dixon? The answer is probably no which means he is just not an elite coach…again, in my opinion.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’d rather have Dixon than Huggins or Kruger right now, moving forward. But analyzing career accomplishments, I’d agree with you. It would not bother me much if KU hired Dixon if Self left. That would be better than trying too hard to hire a legacy (like Manning or Haase). Not sure what would be a better hire that Dixon. Brad Stevens? Bill Donovan? If either would exit the NBA, which I doubt.
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My two top choices would be Brad Stevens and Archie Miller. Stevens has put together a nice team in Boston. Did you watch last night’s game against Houston? Boston Came back from 26 point down to win the game. Most interesting part of the game is Smart getting two offensive fouls on Harden on Houston inbound plays with seconds left in the game. Smart has had lot’s of practice but these were Hall of Fame worthy flops, not that Harden did not push and they normally would not be called, particularly on Harden, but Smart sold it both times and the ref had to call the charges. Unbelievable.
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@JayHawkFanToo Agree very much with Stevens in a fantasy situation.
Archie Miller might be a realistic get but I need to see more from him…
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@JayHawkFanToo I didn’t watch, but saw the highlights this morning. Harden seemed to want the second one.
Archie Miller? I didn’t consider that one.
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Archie Miller si the best up and coming coach. A few years at Indiana should have him ready for KU.
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I’d take Jay Wright. I also like Mike White of Florida. I would like to see more pressure defense, with traps, pack lines, freak defenses, and all that jazz.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Glad someone else can bring up points on Jamie , I can’t dig into deep enough to really try to point out. -All I know he did really well at Pitt for MOST of the time he was there, and I’ll still say he is a definite plus for the Big 12 to have o n Board as a /Coach. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo haha…Whodathunkit…the Smart Flop, WOW. Not once, but twice, and against Harden of all people. That’s a feat in and of itself for Smart. Smart just single handedly won that game for the Celts in a matter of secs and never handled the ball.
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I think Archie Miller is overrated to be honest. And with his family connections, I wouldn’t be surprised if it came out at some point that he’s as crooked as his brother.
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@KUSTEVE agreed. I think Self is too predictable at times.
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Stevens has done a remarkable job with Boston. I watched that game. I sensed the outcome when it got back to an even game. Putting the world’s biggest flopper on one of the most aggressive driving guards in the league… yes. Smart flopped. But he deserved BOTH of those calls. And the fact that Harden didn’t see the second call coming just shows how he lives in a bubble. The guy has really melted down recently. At this point, he is starting to hurt Houston as they pile on more talent. If he wants to ball hog that much, he should be traded to a really bad team that doesn’t have much offensive talent.
