Marsha fan club
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@autohawk Eff Marsha and EFF WSU.
How many NC banners do they have? How many All Americans came out of WSU? How many Power conference championships do they have? How long have they even been Div 1?
Where did the sport originate again? Who was the first coach? How many All Star NBA players do they have?
Are they effing kidding here? They beat us… ONCE. one time. BFD
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Remember the “Battle of New Orleans”? Just sayin…
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Ask about that South Dakota state score!
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@Lulufulu I think Naismith originated the game in Philadelphia. But I’m with ya bud.
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I still cannot imagine anyone who would suggest we shouldn’t play WSU each season. All of the financial stuff is baloney. We know that. They have a better program that all of our non-con opponents except for UK and Syracuse.
Are we scared?
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@Lulufulu I agree with 100% of your sentiment - but I know for a fact that they’ve beaten us more than once. I was at the game in New Orleans in 198—1? 80 or 81, too lazy to look it up and too old to remember exactly. That was the day that Darnell Valentine missed roughly 87 uncontested layups and the same night that I single handedly tried to take on every Shocker fan that I saw on Bourbon Street.
I would have won too, if my brother in law hadn’t held me back. Booze and anger make good fight partners.
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@Lulufulu Can’t claim basketball’s origins, but I have seen people say that here a lot. The sport originated in Springfield, Mass. New England schools had the first college team competitions.
Now, we did get the game’s inventor as our first coach (but he had a losing intercollegiate record). Phog Allen and Naismith were responsible for helping create, I believe, the NAIA and its tourney, the CBB Coaches’ Assn, and the NCAA tournament.
And we have the effin’ Rules!
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@HighEliteMajor yes I believe so. Everyone, including Bill Self, dismisses it because “it doesn’t help us”. Sorry, but I think it absolutely does. WSU is the type of opponent that Self struggles with - a tough, smart and tenacious team with an attitude that matches their coach. Same thing with WVU and Nova. I don’t know if its a mental block for Self but I think he needs more regular experience against those types of teams, and, in all actuality, I would like to see our future teams have that attitude instead of being soft.
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just kindly remind Marsha snuggle bunnies that they had to bust their as after trailing for 3/4 of the game they had to pull one out their ass just to beat a South Dakota St team by ten that we clobbered by 34 - everyone ha of games least ways we didn’t come close to get our butts beat by some directional School - -SOUTH Dakota St? - -by the end of their conference season they will probably be whimpering wanting to go back to the mizzery Valley.
They wanting to talk like some lil Billy bad ass wanna be? - - - Waitin till they match up against Cincinnati - you talk physical - -Little Conner will be checkin to see if he has all his teeth left after one of their picks - -Come back and check with us when you relevant . - -We have played in probably three-four - - maybe even five times as many Big time games opponents then they have in the history of their School - -> Just because you have come on in like the last 5-6 years doesn’t hold a sprinkle in this dyke. - Hold long has KU been relevant ? - - that’s what I though & have a great night - -that’s is what I’d be telling them. - -LIKE I ALWAYS SAY - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Well it’s not hard to shut up Shocker fans for me. How does a proclaimed basketball school have 9 conference titles and 2 final fours (one of which in the last 50 years). @JayHawkFanToo WSU was the lower seed in the battle for New Orleans, they should’ve won. Last time we played them in the regular season it was 103-54. Which ended the series because KU wanted 2 home games to one and not to have to go to a roach infested Koch area. Ask them who won the first game ever played at Koch? You guess it Kansas. Why weren’t they crying about playing us from 1994-2012? Because it would’ve been a 50 point romp 15 of those years. I honestly wish we’d kept the series going Roy started because we’d have a helleva lot better record than the 13-3 we already have vs them.
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@mayjay Phog Allen was huge in the game for hundreds of reasons. He created the National Association of Basketball Coaches, which together came up with the NCAA tournament. He also was the driving force in getting basketball in the Olympics. He coached the 1952 team to a Gold medal. @HawkChamp I honestly wish we’d just play them at times. I do think it would help them more than us tho. I believe that’s why they have been scheduling B12 teams the last few years, to piss us off.
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@JayHawkFanToo WSU was the lower seed in the battle for New Orleans, they should’ve won.
Wichita State was a #6 seed and KU #7 so WSU was actually the higher seed, but really, a negligible difference and it did win the game although KU gave it away at the end with the missed layup.
Say what you want about WSU but they have had a heck of a run in the last few years and they beat KU last time they played. Many analysts are calling WSU the Gonzaga of the Mid West.
I don’t understand why some KU fans feel the need to constantly put down WSU and Marshall. WSU is currently a real good program and Marshall a top 10 if not a top 5 coach. Considering last night’s performance, I am not sure KU can beat WSU.
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@JayHawkFanToo I meant better seed, lower number but yes I’ve seen replays and KU should’ve won. I don’t have anything against WSU, I just dislike their fan base that didn’t exist 5 years ago. I followed them quite a bit when Mark was there, even went to a game in his second year because I got free tickets ( Was about 1500 people there back then). I’ll watch them as a basketball fan but don’t really care if the win or lose. I think they are solid forsure and Gregg as done well no question but most WSU fans I meet are Similar to KSU fans with their arrogance. Even heard some calm to be a national power after 5 good years. I think calling them the Gonzaga of the Midwest is a little premature. It will be interesting to see how they fair in a decent conference.
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@JayHawkFanToo I guess we have that right. Personally I think he’s an a$$
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Solid explanation of why playing WSU would help us.
I don’t think it is some kind of mental block for Self. It’s just that we rarely play these high-energy teams. WVU and sometimes ISU are the closest games that match the intensity of WSU. I do believe it helps us to play more of these teams.
Every big game we play gets nationally televised. Playing the shocks would be on TVs across America… and that is good for Kansas, even when we lose.
I believe UK made a huge gain by starting the UL series again. The viewership of that game is similar to a FF game.
Look at everything Self & Company have done for our program… which has brought us to that very top tier. We can sit back and be comfortable about that… and watch our top status slowly vanish over time. Just ask other schools, like Indiana and UCLA. There is no guarantees we stay at the top.
I don’t believe our pre-conference schedule this year has helped us. Mostly silly opponents that are a complete waste of time and is a major loss of opportunity. If we keep going like this, and if the Big 12 keeps going downhill… I may just stay away until March. Right now, I’m bored with these games so far… except the games with Mizzou and UK. Not sure what is interesting in these games where we drub some D2-quality team by 50 points. Some of these games I started focusing on specific fans in the crowd to watch because they seem more interesting than the game. That is pathetic.
Getting on national TV as many times as possible is a big help. Playing many big games in a year is a big help. We need these “toxic games” like with WSU and Mizzou. And no one can shout out “chickenhawk” again!
Just my humble opinion, and I respect those who think differently.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@JayHawkFanToo I guess we have that right. Personally I think he’s an a$$
No need to guess, you absolutely have that right, I never said you didn’t and you are certainly entitled to your opinion…and so am I.
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HighEliteMajor said:
I still cannot imagine anyone who would suggest we shouldn’t play WSU each season. All of the financial stuff is baloney. We know that. They have a better program that all of our non-con opponents except for UK and Syracuse.
Are we scared?
Alright. When you put it that way—PLAY’EM!
No, wait!
Let me hypothesize why I believe Self and KU wisely opt not to play WSU.
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They are not adidas contracted. They are Nike.
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The Koch’s have epically deep pockets and can and probably would afford any amount of money to win such a series consistently.
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Nike probably would encourage and enable the Koch’s to spend the money necessary to beat KU.
Once KU agrees to an extended series, WSU will eventually consistently beat KU, until KU rolls over and becomes Koch U itself.
Nike and the Koch’s are too powerful of opponents for KU right now. TOO POWERFUL!
Sad, but true.
This would never be about basketball. It would be about expanding control of the North American center point that is the state of Kansas.
The Koch’s are sometimes even too powerful for the Bush-Clinton syndicate. They only back down to the Rockefellers these days and even then not deferentially. They can make one of their guys D-CIA, maybe bump Tillerson aside and he is flipping EXXON. The Koch’s are not for KU to get in a competition with. The Koch’s are connected to Thyssien Krupp. Don’t even peek down that rabbit hole.
You don’t run your Bentley headlong into an on coming diesel electric locomotive with 200 cars behind it full of coal from Wyoming and bitumen slurry from Canada just because the engineer taunts you to do it.
Trust me guys. Let sleeping dogs lie on this one.
The Koch’s appear happily busy and engaged with trying to simultaneously ramp up energy production in North America and making a play for the Traneurasian super corridors.
What Earthscope is learning right now about the crust and upper mantle of North America is likely going to completely change the energy game and power balance in the world for another century again. Mega stakes.
Wish them well and keep KU on its present course, while angling for a better recruiting situation.
Rock Chalk!
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Seems like some folks living in KU territory always want to set up County Fair championships. We’re a world wide brand- we’re not some yokums looking to win the tractor pull. Ok, your “friend” is a Shlocker fan…just agree with everything they say, nod your head, and wait until the next time they lose, and then nail them to the wall, and make them eat every word of it. Geez, what’s next … are we going to play the state juco champ in the Hutch tournament?
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@KUSTEVE Your post just lacks logic. Like it or not, WSU has proven to be an excellent program under Marshall. They’re more worthy of playing in a our non-con than anyone not name UK or Syracuse. That is undeniable. Further, and this is what the MU rivalry denier ignore – playing games with that sort of high intensity, high interest, and local interest is just fun for everyone involved. It’s what sports is about.
Meanwhile, we appear to be chickens. The money issue is a non-existent lie. We know that. WSU carries more cache than anyone we play non-con, again, other than UK/Cuse. So what’s left? Chicken?
Simply because we can make silly jokes about WSU and Marshall doesn’t change reality.
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@HighEliteMajor I’m glad you’re not in charge of promotions- you would have us playing at the state fair for the tri-county championship.
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Ya seriously. We should just stay where we belong. Beating on Toledo and Oakland by 50 in the fieldhouse. Dont step out of the comfort zone and play teams that may actually idk… Prepare us to be a title contender. It’s is fear. Whether anyone chooses to admit it or not. Wsu would probably have the advantage over the last 5 years or so if we had played them. They have largely been ranked and been just plain better than the competition we will face in the lil10. Playing teams like that elevates your game. If you don’t think so, I’d ask yourself why the ACC produces a national champion a good percentage of the time. They elevate each other. The way to fall from the top is to assume there’s no room to improve. We’re Kansas. We’re a national name with all the history. We’re too good to play them… Nope. Nope. Sorry. Right now. We’re not good enough
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This loss is to me
The day we decorated
Our dear Christmas tree
With baubles like this
Twinkling posts light our evenings
Scheming and dreaming
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@drgnslayr Highly unlikely it would be that big of a deal nationally for us to play WSU. Their media market is microscopic compared to most. I seldom see WSU gear outside of Wichita, I’ve seen KU fans in several different states. KU is in the top 25 most years of merchandise sales, never seen WSU in the top 50. The god honest truth is WSU just plays harder than we do night in and out. We don’t play with a chip on our shoulders, we are already a big deal. Look as Wednesday as a prime example, Self even said himself they played harder and out hustled us. When we lose in Manhattan it’s because they play harder, they ain’t as talented as us they just care more. To be honest it drives me nuts when I see our guys lazily play. The trouble is that they are good enough to play shitty and win half of their games. @jaybate-1-0 If Nike was that important to be successful im CBB we would be Nike still, trust me. We were NIke for Roy’s time and didn’t have the success we’ve had under Adidas and Self. I highly Doubt Nike cares about the Midwest as much as you think they do. The rest of the nation really doesn’t care about Kansas in anything. WSU is a tiny tiny media market team highly doubt Nike puts all their resources to work for WSU. Not to mention they don’t have the big money maker in football.
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@kjayhawks Maybe have a WSU/KU match up for a Saturday Night event at the state fair. Label it the state championship. Maybe they could have the top 2 juco teams, and the women’s teams play pre-lim games. But, we’d be the headline attraction that night. No tractor pulls for that day - only basketball.
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KUSTEVE said:
Seems like some folks living in KU territory always want to set up County Fair championships. We’re a world wide brand- we’re not some yokums looking to win the tractor pull. Ok, your “friend” is a Shlocker fan…just agree with everything they say, nod your head, and wait until the next time they lose, and then nail them to the wall, and make them eat every word of it. Geez, what’s next … are we going to play the state juco champ in the Hutch tournament?
Now dad gummit it Jethro, you play nice or I’m going to have to get Granny and she give you an good old country fashion whuppin - and you’ll get no viddles. - -LOl - -good point my friend - hell we might as well just play both of them WSU & Mizzery both make it a clean sweep and kick both there ass. how about that - -shut these people up. - -we have nothing to gain from playing these guys - they have only become some National prominence in the last 5-6 years and to say the are the Gonzaga of the Midwest? - -All I can say to that is - - psssssssssssssssssssssssssssst - -please. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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kjayhawks said:
@drgnslayr Highly unlikely it would be that big of a deal nationally for us to play WSU. Their media market is microscopic compared to most. I seldom see WSU gear outside of Wichita, I’ve seen KU fans in several different states. KU is in the top 25 most years of merchandise sales, never seen WSU in the top 50. The god honest truth is WSU just plays harder than we do night in and out. We don’t play with a chip on our shoulders, we are already a big deal. Look as Wednesday as a prime example, Self even said himself they played harder and out hustled us. When we lose in Manhattan it’s because they play harder, they ain’t as talented as us they just care more. To be honest it drives me nuts when I see our guys lazily play. The trouble is that they are good enough to play shitty and win half of their games. @jaybate-1-0 If Nike was that important to be successful im CBB we would be Nike still, trust me. We were NIke for Roy’s time and didn’t have the success we’ve had under Adidas and Self. I highly Doubt Nike cares about the Midwest as much as you think they do. The rest of the nation really doesn’t care about Kansas in anything. WSU is a tiny tiny media market team highly doubt Nike puts all their resources to work for WSU. Not to mention they don’t have the big money maker in football.
Exactly - - that’s exactly it. - -Outside of the local region this would be microscopic to others. -People here trying to talk about how KU dominating the so called quote " lil 10 " - and how we should - WSU is exactly the same way - hell if they anything - -anything at all then they should of dominated that dumpster fire of a so called league they played in up until this year. The Missouri Valley. Again ya the LAST 5-6 years they have come on a little bit to the National scene , does that automatically make then a blue blood some macho National powerhouse? - I’m not thinking so.
You tell me if KU was to play WSU on a night - now on a National scale between the two - KU/WSU - or Duke/N Carolina playing on the same night Nationally who do you think the majority of a national Tv audience where do you think the majority of the TV sets would be focused on? - Sure in the hell not KU/WSU - -it just isn’t as big as National draw interest as the Duke/n Carolina - not even close. -sure there would be interest in the state - but National? - - umm nope. WSU is not National prominence now- their good for the present, Still is seen to be proven over an extended time
Let’s see how Marsha and the boy fare when they match up with some real competition in their league THIS year, umm they not favored to win the league this year, - waitin to see them play Cincinnati, her people say WSU plays with a chip - claiming how physical they are - -ya ok, you wanna see physical? - wait until one of the Cincinnati players lays one of those picks on Connor you want physical - -Cincinnati is physical -they not going to play bad as now that the league is a step up. Couldn’t agree more with what kjayhawk said. - -But like has been said there are some that wanna wine sniffle moan bitch – oh KU won’t play us that’s not fair, - Like Steve said lets just sit up a court at the State fair let them play.
People want rip THIS years Non Con how its way to soft, You tell me how many times ha this happened? - KU has nothing to apologize for about scheduling - These same people bitch other years about the schedule being to hard - KU 9-10 plays one of the hardest Non Con schedules in the land. - But no this year when it is softer - all we hear is people is how we play no one how it is so soft and we are afraid to play people - get the hell out of here with that crap. - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@KUSTEVE I’ma tellin ya - -you better stop where in the hell is granny when you need her lmao. - -How about this maybe - -maybe we could at half time of the game at the fair - -maybe we could have a butter churnin contest - maybe a greased pig contest that would draw National TV interest too right? lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 LMAO…I’m having fun with this. I was thinking the team could play with a 4-H sleeve on their unis, and maybe give out free John Deere hats to the fans. Maybe set up some farm implement displays near the concession stand or something…
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Nothing succeeds like success…when a team is not winning attendance and audience drops. I don’t know if you were around in the early 80s when KU was not winning and average attendance dropped under 10,000; in fact during the Ted Owens tenure, the capacity of AFH was dropped to 15,000 since the average attendance then and before was in the 12k range and it did not increase until Larry Brown and Roy Williams started winning and the capacity increased to the current 16,300.
Look at MU and how attendance dropped to the low thousands when it started to lose and is way back up when the team is better. WSU is not that different attendance fluctuates as the team succeeds or fails.
WSU has a largely local regional audience and I would say that a large percentage of its fan base is within 100 miles while KU basketball is much larger with primarily a State and Mid West following and also gathers a national audience by virtue of its success.
A game with WSU would have a very limited regional audience the same way that say, a Washington - Washington State would have in the rest of the country. Nike does not play a role, shoeco or other loony conspiracies notwithstanding. Nike has the big moneymaker football programs in the region and has little interest in KU with its putrid football program.
I would be more agreeable to a game with WSU than MU since the first is currently a MUCH better program and also helps the state at large. No question the game has a much bigger upside for WSU and a larger downside for KU. Playing MU has little benefit for KU since in 3 years when Martin quits being the novelty, stops winning and leaves, the program will go back to its rightful state of mediocrity while WSU appears to be in good shape to stay relevant, at least while Marshall is there.
This post also addresses other issues raised by other posters.
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@KUSTEVE Hell ya - - maybe we could have a pie eating contest too and a dunk tank - -Maybe get Marsha to sit on the stool in the tank - -that would be fun - OR OR OR maybe have his wife sit there - - wait we would have to pull her away from the beer chugging contest 1st lmao. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo I don’t disagree with your last post. My shoe co was a response to Jaybate. Why I said @jaybate-1-0 lol. Self claims WSU has never contacted us about a game, who knows. This argument could go back and forth for years. A KU vs MU would be way big, it raised millions of dollars in a glorified scrimmage. I’m the end the scheduling isn’t up to us.
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kjayhawks said:
@drgnslayr Highly unlikely it would be that big of a deal nationally for us to play WSU. Their media market is microscopic compared to most. I seldom see WSU gear outside of Wichita, I’ve seen KU fans in several different states. KU is in the top 25 most years of merchandise sales, never seen WSU in the top 50. The god honest truth is WSU just plays harder than we do night in and out. We don’t play with a chip on our shoulders, we are already a big deal. Look as Wednesday as a prime example, Self even said himself they played harder and out hustled us. When we lose in Manhattan it’s because they play harder, they ain’t as talented as us they just care more. To be honest it drives me nuts when I see our guys lazily play. The trouble is that they are good enough to play shitty and win half of their games. @jaybate-1-0 If Nike was that important to be successful im CBB we would be Nike still, trust me. [ALAS, YOUR REASONING APPEARS TOO SPECIOUS FOR CREDULOUS TRUST. FORGIVE ME. NOW, TO MASTER THE OBVIOUS, NIKE’S SUMMER GAME PROGRAM APPEARS A SHARPLY MORE INFLUENTIAL DRIVER OF WHO GETS TOP TALENT THAN ADIDAS’. IF YOU ARE STILL LABORING UNDER THE QUAINT NOTION THE APPARENT PETROSHOECO-AGENCY HAS NOT APPEARED TO ASYMMETRICALLY IMPACT RECRUIT DISTRIBUTION, THEN I HAVE A FLOOD DAMAGED BERTRAM 28 TO SELL YOU FOR BLUE BOOK!!! I AM FRANKLY ASTONISHED AT YOUR OPINION GIVEN RECENT KU ROSTERS IN COMPARISON TO OTHER ELITE PROGRAMS. IT SEEMS ONE OF THE MORE STARK LOGICAL DISCONNECTS I HAVE READ RECENTLY.] We were NIke for Roy’s time and didn’t have the success we’ve had under Adidas and Self. [THAT APPEARS TO BE SOME TOWERINGLY MISLEADING OVERSIMPLIFICATION THERE. DIDNT ROY REPUTEDLY ADMIT TO SPLITTING THE COUNTRY WITH DEAN AT THE MISSISSIPPI, WHICH BY THE WAY APPARENTLY GAVE DEAN THE BIGGER POPULATION HALF (THX JERRY REED). WHY SHOULD ONE EXPECT ROY RECRUITING THE LESSER HALF TO HAVE BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL THE BILL RECRUITING ALL BEFORE THE APPARENT ASYMMETRY IN THE PETROSHOECO-AGENCY COMPLEX APPEARED TO GROW MORE ACUTE? NEXT: NOTE THE OFT OVERLOOKED IMPLICATION FROM BACK IN THE 20TH CENTURY-THAT THEY HAD SOMETHING TO SPLIT! WHAT WAS IT? YOUR COMMENT PERHAPS UNWITTINGLY REVEALS WHAT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN. NIKE SPONSORED SUMMER GAME PLAYERS MAYBE? MAYBE A FEEDER SYSTEM SONNY, DEAN, LARRY AND ROY WERE INVOLVED IN THE EARLY DEVELOPMENT OF? MAYBE? BUT WHO KNOWS? I DONT KNOW. WHAT DO YOU THINK? NUDGE, NUDGE, WINK, WINK. REGARDLESS, KU APPARENTLY ALIGNING BACK IN THE 20TH CENTURY WITH NIKE, SONNY, DEAN, LARRY/WWW, AND ROY SEEMED TO COINCIDE WITH KU BEING PUT BACK ON THE NATIONAL MAP, DIDNT IT? AND THE JUMP TO ADIDAS SURE UPPED THE CASH TAKE-IN AND REPUTEDLY ALLOWED BILL TO RECRUIT THE WHOLE COUNTRY, AFTER THE REPUTED 50/50 YEARS OF NIKE-ROY. BUT THEN AFTER AN EARLY RUSH OF SOME GLOSSY ADIDAS LEAN OADS, THE ADIDAS YIELD HAS PLATEAUED, SEEMINGLY DECLINED AND THE NON-ADIDAS LEANS SELF USED TO SIGN SO MANY OF HAS CONSPICUOUSLY DWINDLED TO THE POINT THAT THIS SEASON’S ROSTER CAN BEST BE CALLED A FIVE MAN SQUAD OF MAJOR GRADE RECRUITS PLUS TWO GUYS LIKE SELF USED TO RECRUIT AT TULSA (TO BORROW BILL’S WORDS). 5 GUYS? PLUS SOME MARGINALIA? HEY! NOTHING TO SEE HERE! AND THE PETROSHOECO-AGENCY COMPLEX DENIERS SAY SOMETHING LIKE: LOOK AT HOW MANY TRANSFERS WE HAVE LINED UP FOR NEXT YEAR! AND FURTHER THEY SAY LOOK AT THE TWO 5 STAR POINT GUARDS SIGNED TOO. YOO-HOOO! TO WHICH I ASK QUITE REASONABLY HOW MANY MALIK NEWMANS AND BILLY PRESTONS AND DIALLOS AND ALEXANDERS WILL THERE BE NEXT SEASON? AND WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME UK, DUKE, UNC, MSU, OR EVEN FLIPPING IOWA STATE HAD TO GIVE WALK-ONS ROTATION MINUTES AND ADD FOOTBALL PLAYERS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A THREE-BIG ROTATION? NOTHING TO SEE HERE! NEXT! ] Doubt Nike cares about the Midwest as much as you think they do. [BET NIKE CARES MORE ABOUT THE MIDWEST THAN YOU AND I THINK THEY DO. WHY ELSE WOULD THEY SPONSOR TEXAS AND OU AND OSU AND KSU? ARE YOU SPONSORING THOSE SCHOOLS FOR ANYTHING? IM NOT! BUT NIKE IS. THEY APPEAR TO THINK ABOUT THEM APPROXIMATELY THE AMOUNT IT APPEARS TO ME THEY THINK ABOUT THEM, RATHER THAN THE AMOUNT IT APPEARS TO YOU THEY THINK ABOUT THEM! HOWLING!!! AND WOULD YOU BET NIKE WOULD RATHER HAVE KU UNDER CONTRACT IN BASKETBALL THAN KSU, OU AND OSU? I WOULD?] The rest of the nation really doesn’t care about Kansas in anything. [BUT ADIDAS SURE CARES ABOUT KANSAS, DONT THEY? I WONDER WHY?] WSU is a tiny tiny media market team [AGREED] highly doubt Nike puts all their resources to work for WSU. [FIRST, NO LARGE CORPORATION EVER PUTS ALL THEIR RESOURCES TO WORK ON ANYTHING. SECOND, THERE WOULD BE LITTLE INCENTIVE TO PUT MORE RESOURCES INTO WSU, UNLESS KU WERE TO AGREE TO START PLAYING THEM ANNUALLY, RIGHT? THEN IT WOULD PROBABLY BE STUPID NOT TO ROUTE A FEW MORE DUMP TRUCKS TO WSU, AND BEAT KU AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. AN INTERESTING STRATEGY BUILD WOULD BE TO BUILD UP TEXAS, OU AND WSU, SO THEY CAN ROUTINELY BEAT KU, AND THEN THEY COULD BE RID OF ADIDAS-KU AND OPEN UP MORE REGULAR AND POST SEASON TELEVISION SLOTS FOR TEAMS BEARING THEIR BRAND. THAT WAS EASY.]Not to mention they don’t have the big money maker in football. [GEE, I CANT IMAGINE WHY KU IS HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE RECRUITING FOOTBALL PLAYERS THESE DAYS, CAN YOU? HOWLING! KU HAS OVER ITS LONG FOOTBALL HISTORY BEEN ABLE TO AVOID BEING THIS ROTTEN FOR OVER A CENTURY IMHO. EVEN IN THE BAD OLD DAYS PRE-MANGINO, KU COULD SIGN A GALE SAYERS OR JOHN HADL, OR A JOHN RIGGINS, OR A DAVID JAYNES. NOW LOOK AT KU RECENTLY. UGH! DONT YOU EVER MASTER THE OBVIOUS AND NOTICE THE CONSPICUOUS CORRELATION BETWEEN KU BASKETBALL’S DWINDLING ABILITY TO SIGN ENOUGH D1 GRADE PLAYERS AND KU FOOTBALL’S NEAR COMPLETE FAILURE TO RECRUIT ENOUGH D1 GRADE FOOTBALL PLAYERS? DO YOU REALLY JUST VIEW IT AS A FANTASTIC STATISTICALLY IMPROBABLE COINCIDENCE? I AT LEAST WONDER ABOUT THIS STRIKING ANOMALY. ]
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Puzzled is me.
If we play WSU it would not be significant nationally? But what game IS “significant.” That’s all relative. So relatively speaking, yes, it would be a battle of top 10 teams if done now, in the non-con. ESPN leads with the NBA anyway. The Duke/UNC rivalry as comparison is silly. That’s a different animal. I do find it interesting that WSU reached the FF before Gonzaga. Just an observation.
There are time when folks argue points that are so ridiculously wrong and lacking of logic that it’s nothing more than an irritation to respond.
If you go to ESPN, you can see the final rankings (USA Today) for WSU since 2012, starting with 2012 - 27, 4, 7, 11, 26, and 21. They are now ranked 6th. Since 2000, 17+ season, WSU has won 68.2% of their games. Since Marshall came in 2007, it’s 74.3% of their games.
The only Big 12 team sniffing the winning percentage over that period of time is West Virginia (appx. 65%), acknowledging that WVU was in a better conference during that period.
The resistance to playing WSU, who kicked our a** in the 2015 NCAA tourney – meaning dominated us – is just laughable.
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And while we’re at it, let’s get Missouri back on the schedule! Then we’d have two non-con games to look forward to.
@JayHawkFanToo Thanks for the info on attendance at AFH. Interesting to read. Those years coincide with my HS and college years in Chicago. I was a college hoops fanatic then, but KU wasn’t on my radar at all. But I did know about Wichita St. When I arrived at KU I learned about KU basketball. It wasn’t relevant at all nationally during the later 70’s and early 80’s. I arrived at the right time! Haven’t missed the dance once except the Larry Brown penalty year.
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I very much respect your POV. I like your spirit, believe it would be a great rivalry that would get televised, and lord knows I loath Marsha and want payback for Perry using his nose to attack the WSU player’s elbow!
But it probably wouldn’t help us recruit, and it probably would incentivize Nike to encourage Nike leans to Marsha, and it probably would trigger the Koch machine into high gear to help enable WSU’s success over KU for a variety of reasons.
I trust you find me a coward for this line of reasoning, for I do confess it tastes bad to write this point of view, and do feel a bit of one, but…
The best strategic interests of KU Basketball trumps both my burning desire to smash sign-board forehead on the wood, my desire to enjoy facilitating a potentially great rivalry, and to help a Kansas school —WSU—I’ve always been fond of.
Until the Nike issue can break in our favor, or do no harm, and until I can believe KU’s alumni can stand up to the Koch’s as peaceful countervailing forces in state and inter university politics, I vote no to playing them annually.
But damn I like to read you make the case!
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HighEliteMajor said:
Puzzled is me.
If we play WSU it would not be significant nationally? But what game IS “significant.” That’s all relative. So relatively speaking, yes, it would be a battle of top 10 teams if done now, in the non-con. ESPN leads with the NBA anyway. The Duke/UNC rivalry as comparison is silly. That’s a different animal. I do find it interesting that WSU reached the FF before Gonzaga. Just an observation.
There are time when folks argue points that are so ridiculously wrong and lacking of logic that it’s nothing more than an irritation to respond.
If you go to ESPN, you can see the final rankings (USA Today) for WSU since 2012, starting with 2012 - 27, 4, 7, 11, 26, and 21. They are now ranked 6th. Since 2000, 17+ season, WSU has won 68.2% of their games. Since Marshall came in 2007, it’s 74.3% of their games.
The only Big 12 team sniffing the winning percentage over that period of time is West Virginia (appx. 65%), acknowledging that WVU was in a better conference during that period.
The resistance to playing WSU, who kicked our a** in the 2015 NCAA tourney – meaning dominated us – is just laughable.
my suggestion to you if you think people response is so bad no more then an irritation then the solution is simple - - - DON’T RESPOND end of story - solves that problem.
So we haven’t won over 68.2% of our games since 2000? - - we haven’t won 74% of our games since 2007? I doubt that. - -thanks for the input - -oh ya you don’t need to respond don’t want to irritate you, my response is pretty ridiculous. - -lmao thanks anyways - -don’t wanna waste your time - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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You make valid point but there is just one that is misleading at best and disingenuous at worst. The overall winning percentage for WSU is based largely from playing in a super weak Missouri Valley Conference that routinely sent just one team to the dance and also routinely had all teams except one or maybe 2 ranked below the top 100 and where WSU piled up wins. Had WSU played in the Big 12 or other major conference, do you think its wining percentage would be even close to what is it now? I don’t think so.
I would not be opposed to playing WSU even when it benefits them more than KU but it is good for basketball in the State. No question the audience would be regional at best and no way it has a big national audience; WSU, as good as it has been lately, still does not have a national recognition or appeal that KU has.
Missouri is a different case all together. I just don’t see it being a home and home game; who wants to go to Columbia and have to put up with the Antlers at Plaige Arena? The game would likely be an annual event at the Sprint Center where KU does not play well and has lost the last 3 non-exhibition games it has played there and all the money stays out of state. Zero upside for KU.
The fund raiser was a novelty with MU fans wanting to show off their once in a couple of dozen years recruiting class and KU wanting to show them who is still top dog; the novelty has now worn off and the interest is greatly diminished. Another player just transferred out of MU and the upcoming class is nowhere near the current class and MU will gradually fade away until Martin get his 3 years in and bolts barely ahead of the “firing” squad as he as done at his last 3 stops. Let’s wait and see if they improve before agreeing to play them on a continuous basis.
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@jaybate-1-0 At the heart of my opinion is a strong emotional tug, I admit – I just want to kick their a** into submission.
@jayballer54 Kind “suggestion.” I think I’ll pass. Perhaps this is just a hurt feelings day. I really do care. And I do appreciate the irrelevant point in your last paragraph regarding our win percentage. Struggling to see how that even connects, since, of course, we play Washington, Nebraska, Arizona St., Omaha, Texas El Chapo, etc.
@JayHawkFanToo “Disengenous” at worst – I’m making progress. I did, of course, note the conference issue referring to WVU so that was there for all that might be misled and don’t understand that WSU is in the MVC.
And I take it then you’re referring the MVC? Or mid-majors? The kind that we never have issues with in the tourney? To answer a very good question, since 2010, if WSU would have been in the Big 12, I think they would have been the second best team overall in the Big 12, with WVU neck and neck with them after WVU joined. Before 2010, middle of the pack most of the time except a few years back to 2000. Of course, that helps win the argument since we find justification to be associated with basketball programs that are worse that WSU in our own conference.
To ask you a question, do you think our conference winning streak would be in place if WSU were in our conference? I don’t thinks so.
And I think you’re wrong on the MU thing – the rivalry is back on. Give it some time, as I mentioned back when the Sprint center was packed an all anyone could do is talk about it (or complain about it).
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HighEliteMajor said:
@jaybate-1-0 At the heart of my opinion is a strong emotional tug, I admit – I just want to kick their a** into submission.
@jayballer54 Kind “suggestion.” I think I’ll pass. Perhaps this is just a hurt feelings day. I really do care. And I do appreciate the irrelevant point in your last paragraph regarding our win percentage. Struggling to see how that even connects, since, of course, we play Washington, Nebraska, Arizona St., Omaha, Texas El Chapo, etc.
@JayHawkFanToo “Disengenous” at worst – I’m making progress. I did, of course, note the conference issue referring to WVU so that was there for all that might be misled and don’t understand that WSU is in the MVC.
And I take it then you’re referring the MVC? Or mid-majors? The kind that we never have issues with in the tourney? To answer a very good question, since 2010, if WSU would have been in the Big 12, I think they would have been the second best team overall in the Big 12, with WVU neck and neck with them after WVU joined. Before 2010, middle of the pack most of the time except a few years back to 2000. Of course, that helps win the argument since we find justification to be associated with basketball programs that are worse that WSU in our own conference.
To ask you a question, do you think our conference winning streak would be in place if WSU were in our conference? I don’t thinks so.
And I think you’re wrong on the MU thing – the rivalry is back on. Give it some time, as I mentioned back when the Sprint center was packed an all anyone could do is talk about it (or complain about it).
You seem to want to try and justify that how badly we need to play WSU and you seem to want to go off just THIS YEAR SCHEDULE - -sorry doesn’t work that way. - -This is ONE YEAR that our schedule hasn’t been like years in the past and oh my how quick people such as yourself are to jump on that.
Year after year after year Ku has one of the strongest SOS"S in the land of College basketball - do you happen to remember those years? - or did it slip your mind - it’s ok if it has. -but hey we wanna talk about THIS year right - -how sweet.
Did some checkin myself about those almighty Shockers - -things didn’t turn out to favorable in comparison. Went back and checked over the last 20 years since 1997.
Wichita State record for that period – 430-228 KU record over that same span? - - 587-135 - hmmmm?
Well let’s not dwell on that - how about this like you brought up since 2000: - Wichita States Record? - -389-179- what was KU’S? - -glad you ask. - -505-107 - - - Hmmm does that equate out to a better winning pct then WSU? - -Not sure - -BUT I think - -MAYBE JUST MAYBE it does. - - -hmmmmm?
Ok that isn’t good? - -well let’s try this. - How about just SINCE Marsha has been the Coach of this powerhouse? - Greggs record in his 10 yrs at Wichita State? 257-89 - -Coach Self just over the last 10 yrs at KU - - glad you ask - - 311-64 - - hmmm, that breaks down to 74 more wins during that span- and ummmm 25 less losses, what the hell is up with that? - -Well lets see, how many 30 plus seasons has sweet old Marsha had during his time at WSU let’s just have a little look - oh there it is - - -4. - Well now how many has Coach self had during those same 10 yr period - let’s see - ooops there it is - -any guess? - It’s 7 -dam 7 out of the last 10 yrs Coach Self with 30 plus wins.
Would you like to compare each teams non con Schedule over the past 10 years to see how they compare with one anothers? - wanna see who had the stronger non con Schedule? - -Do we wanna Compare the two Conferences that each School was in up until this year?- - Please, you want to go off THIS YEARS Non Con and try and give us hell give me a break - -Wichita State up until the last 5-6 years was a nobody - -in a nobody league.
Is Kansas a traditionally rich hotbed for D-1 recruits? - -Is there ANYTHING to gain from KU playing these guys if not advantage for recruitment? - Just so we can pasify the Shocker fans maybe - -oh were playing KU? - - we play places were we can be seen by other big time recruits - National exposure - -there is not any NATIONAL exposure to Wichita State -there is absolutely nothing to gain from playing these guys period. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Oh no, you don’t.
This is what you posted…
"If you go to ESPN, you can see the final rankings (USA Today) for WSU since 2012, starting with 2012 - 27, 4, 7, 11, 26, and 21. They are now ranked 6th. Since 2000, 17+ season, WSU has won 68.2% of their games. Since Marshall came in 2007, it’s 74.3% of their games."
Nowhere there indicates the percentage was achieved by playing in the MVC.
Afterwards you obliquely refer to WWU being in a “better” conference without mentioning which one…
"The only Big 12 team sniffing the winning percentage over that period of time is West Virginia (appx. 65%), acknowledging that WVU was in a better conference"
The Big 12 is not just “better” than an unnamed conference, it is orders of magnitude better than the MVC. The Big 12 routinely send 60%-70% of its teams to the NCAA Tournament the MVC 10%.
Do you know how many MVC championships WSU has won in the last 20 years in the MVC? 6 including 1 by Turgeon. Do you know how many MVC Tournament Titles it has in the last 20 years? Would you believe 2? That is correct, just 2. Again, the most teams the MVC has sent to the NCAA is 2 (20%) while the Big 12 routinely send 6 or 7 teams (60%-70%). I am confident that if WSU played in the Big 12 it would have been a middle of the pack team at best although in the last few years it could have been definitely top half.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Oh no, you don’t.
This is what you posted…
"If you go to ESPN, you can see the final rankings (USA Today) for WSU since 2012, starting with 2012 - 27, 4, 7, 11, 26, and 21. They are now ranked 6th. Since 2000, 17+ season, WSU has won 68.2% of their games. Since Marshall came in 2007, it’s 74.3% of their games."
Nowhere there indicates the percentage was achieved by playing in the MVC.
Afterwards you obliquely refer to WWU being in a “better” conference without mentioning which one…
"The only Big 12 team sniffing the winning percentage over that period of time is West Virginia (appx. 65%), acknowledging that WVU was in a better conference"
The Big 12 is not just “better” than an unnamed conference, it is orders of magnitude better than the MVC. The Big 12 routinely send 60%-70% of its teams to the NCAA Tournament the MVC 10%.
Do you know how many MVC championships WSU has won in the last 20 years in the MVC? 6 including 1 by Turgeon. Do you know how many MVC Tournament Titles it has in the last 20 years? Would you believe 2? That is correct, just 2. Again, the most teams the MVC has sent to the NCAA is 2 (20%) while the Big 12 routinely send 6 or 7 teams (60%-70%). I am confident that if WSU played in the Big 12 it would have been a middle of the pack team at best although in the last few years it could have been definitely top half.
now you my sir will not be getting a response from HighEliteMajor as your response is so bad it only irritates him , lmao. - -great points buddy but don’t expect him to acknowledge that I’m sure he will have something sweet , If I were you I wouldn’t waste any more time on this - some you just can’t help. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I respect @HighEliteMajor and he usually makes good points but sometimes he tries too hard or tries to be too cute to make his point. That’s all.
We all have our opinions and we don’t always agree but as long as the discussion stays respectful and factual we all benefit from the information provide by all sides. It’s all good.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I respect @HighEliteMajor and he usually makes good points but sometimes he tries too hard or tries to be too cute to make his point. That’s all.
We all have our opinions and we don’t always agree but as long as the discussion stays respectful and factual we all benefit from the information provide by all sides. It’s all good.
Agree, yet when he makes statements about how pretty much ignorant then it kind of takes on another light. Just because you don’t agree with what another poster says doesn’t mean as what they say doesn’t have some worth whether others think so or not. But hey not everybody going to agree with everything it’s ok. If we ALWAYS agree then that’s no fun. Actually in reality this site is an awesome board, everyone is entitled to their opinions. Love the broad variety of topics - think there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@JayHawkFanToo Since the only team I was discussing was WSU, it would seem that the “better conference” reference maybe, might, if one is following along, be in reference to the subject of the post (WSU). So you lose there. At least I think so.
So you don’t think the year WSU destroyed us in the NCAA tourney they might have won the conference (2015)? Or 2013? Or 2014 when they were undefeated until the UK loss by 2?
@jayballer54 I’m serious, did I hurt your feelings?
Again, I’m struggling with why KU’s superior record has anything to do with it? With that logic, we’d schedule no one (except Duke, UNC, UK and maybe UCLA)? With your logic, nothing would be gained from playing anyone except those teams. Help me. I need it. My head now hurts.
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Again, way too nuanced (cute) for may taste. Let’s call it a tie and move on?
…and no, I don’t think it wins the conference. Big difference beating up Drake, Bradley or Missouri State than having to play OU, OSU, WVU, ISU, Texas Baylor and KU day in and day out. Beating weak teams gets you to the NCAA a lot fresher and healthier than playing a tough schedule.
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I will call it a tie. I think then in our debates over the years I’m 132-1-1. The only debate I lost was when you said Bill Self was the best coach in the country.
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I have only one thing to say…
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@JayHawkFanToo Maybe. Ok, I could be off by a few.
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…a few? Like 100+?
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HighEliteMajor said:
@JayHawkFanToo Since the only team I was discussing was WSU, it would seem that the “better conference” reference maybe, might, if one is following along, be in reference to the subject of the post (WSU). So you lose there. At least I think so.
So you don’t think the year WSU destroyed us in the NCAA tourney they might have won the conference (2015)? Or 2013? Or 2014 when they were undefeated until the UK loss by 2?
@jayballer54 I’m serious, did I hurt your feelings?
Again, I’m struggling with why KU’s superior record has anything to do with it? With that logic, we’d schedule no one (except Duke, UNC, UK and maybe UCLA)? With your logic, nothing would be gained from playing anyone except those teams. Help me. I need it. My head now hurts.
You didn’t hurt my feelings lmao - umm takes a little bit more then that. Something serious like not being able to pay my bills. - -OR feeling sorry for myself wondering how I’m going to manage my knee replacement - -but over the game of Basketball - -umm no maybe not -Seriously you didn’t.
As far as the superior record just goes to show you made the remark about our non con this year talking about how great a winning pct WSU had had over the last years - then I point out KU 's record is even better then that - and against much stiffer competition - now it becomes you don’t understand why the record means so much.
You was the boosting about what great job WSU had done since 2000 what a winning pct they had and how no one could compare to that - -well Ku has and it was against much better competition. - And ya with my logic most of the time we DO play that type off schedule if you would like to go back and look at the past seasons to see who our Non con was - again year after year we play one of the toughest Non Con in the Nation. - -But yet you say nothing about that , you only care to bring up about how weak our schedule is this year - umm that sounds about right.
Using one example from this year you remember South Dakota state - -a weak team right? - -That weak team was kicking the all and might Shockers butts all over the court for 3/4 of the game they end up winning by 10 - -you remember right that same team we destroyed by 34? - a lot of these teams we scheduled are or were predicted to win their Conference this year. - do I like the schedule this year? - -hell no but these are made years in advance. - -I would much rather play the Duke’s Arizona’s - & Kentucky’s of the Nation hell ya - -also goes back to the Media attention the TV rating those games draw Nationally compared to a KU - WSU match up Nationally. Sure that game would draw a good Tv rating here in Kansas - but National not so much - nothing like KU/Duke - -KU /Kentucky - -you wanna be the best - -you play the best. & Wichita State has only become prominent in the last 6-7 years they have a ways to go. - - Hurt my feelings? - -Na - made me laugh - -hell ya , and I thank you for that. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
