New guys
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Garrett seems like the best personality of the bunch.
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@approxinfinity can’t wait to find out.
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approxinfinity said:
Garrett seems like the best personality of the bunch.
Extremely hard worker. I’ve heard nothing but good things.
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Notice Garrett’s position in that video. Point guard, so we have an idea of how Self likely views Garrett’s development.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Nice find.
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@BShark I’m really excited over him being in the fold. Just a great kid- extremely talented, with a natural poise both off and on the court that will serve him well throughout his life. I am officially deeming him a Jethro 5 Star recruit.
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Agree, 5 stars. It was a fortunate situation for KU where he had somewhat limited exposure and the KU staff had a great relationship with his HS coach. Smart to lock him down early.
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They look good indeed Damn I wish the season started next week The older I get, the harder it is to wait for the college hoops season to start
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Was he ranked a 5-star by the traditional recruiting gurus?
Jethro increasingly shows superior insight to the traditional recruiting gurus.
Note: definition of a tradional recruiting guru–someone sensitive to the nuances of the shoeco-agency complex when ranking recruits.
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@jaybate-1.0 Garrett was a mid to high level 4 star. His rating was between 38 and 62 from the big 3 recruiting services.
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@jaybate-1.0 He was smart enough to pick KU, so gotta give him 5 stars for intelligence. His favorite player, and the player he looks up to on our team is Devonte, so gotta give him 5 stars for that. They interviewed Garrett after Devonte announced he was coming back for his senior year, and he genuinely was relieved and very happy Devonte was coming back. What we get with Garrett is a team first player, with a real knack for defense. A kid that can handle the ball, can hit a teammate with a perfect pass, can shoot it from 3, or drive it to the hoop. 5 star Jethro certified. He’s a keeper.
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@KUSTEVE I like jethro’s rating system. Love KU, team player, and plays D. Offense counts too.
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@KUSTEVE I like your high praise of the kid. My gut was that this kid was not going to play PG for us at his size, so where was he really going to get run? I just don’t want to go back to Tyshawn / EJ brand of PG. Want to be able to handle pressure. But I need to ease up a bit. Watched his highlight films a bit more. He’s got a nice 3 and can run a break. And I dig the attitude and work ethic. He can be a top notch 2 when Newman leaves.
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@approxinfinity Your fears will always be justified on the EJ type point guard. My gosh, what a nightmare that was for years. So I get that all the way. I say " me, too." But this kid is far more than an EJ with the ball, imo. He has learned to use his superior height on the perimeter, and is quite proficient with the ball, imho. I see a real match up problem for other teams. I can see why people see him and think " Vick", and not a point guard. Here’s the highlight film I like the best- you might’ve already seen it, but it’s worth watching again:
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@KUSTEVE fun watch. It was only one team but he did appear to dominate. My concern is that EJ did have good handles. He just didn’t make good decisions with the ball with pressure on him. Its possible that Garrett has lesser handles but makes better decisions under pressure.
What happens when Garrett runs into an ultra quick backcourt like Michigan in 2013? If he’s our best ball handler I think we are toast. It’s going to be Devonte or Jacobs bringing it up in that situation. Garrett won’t be the primary.
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You guys are having a fascinating debate here. Let me add one variable. What if Garrett has a get better Gene of the sort that Frank Mason showed? Might that change either of your positions? Frank had a lot of physical talent when he arrived. But there was a lot of doubt whether he could be an affective point guard, because of his decision-making and limited dribbling. Leave aside the shooting issue. Would it be too much to expect that Garrett could make good decisions and improve as much in his dribbling and passing as Frank did?
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@jaybate-1.0 Good thought. With Mason I never had doubt about his dribbling. I was floored by how good it was in contrast to those that came before him. Decision making, yes, he needed some work.
Maybe… Maybe it’s possible for Garrett to get better at dribbling but I don’t know the comp. Can a 6’7 PG dribble well enough to beat good pressure? I think he has to have another guard that can help break pressure. Mason was able to dribble out of and through pressure if need be. I feel my argument here might have blinders on though. Maybe I’m not picturing what Garrett’s ceiling could be. A better passing Tyshawn? Maybe quicker to peak form than Tyshawn as well?
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Your skeptical expectations are reasonable IMHO. How many truly effective 6-5 and taller point guards have there been? Oscar. Magic. Penny Hardaway. Rare air! Those tall twins at U.K. turned out not to be able handle certain situations. If Lance Stephenson and OJ Mayo had to be shooting guards, well, what are the chances for this guy? Not good. But…
But Frank Mason played out of position bigger and better than seemed possible.
And I held some similar and, what I thought, very reasonable expectations about Frank, before he started and even after he played a season. He came as a 2 guard in high school and then played like one, when he played point his first season. I saw a short natural two with a fine shot and blinding speed that could either be in drive/shoot mode, OR pass mode, but not both. I could not foresee him fluidly doing both. But he eventually did. I also doubted his peripheral vision. But it eventually manifested. I doubted his ability to know exactly where his teammates needed to receive a pass to score; that takes insight and empathy. But it emerged.
Tyshawn was a 2 that became a National Finals grade PG.
EJ struggled, but I will always believe that without the injuries he would have made the adaptation.
Self has kind of a spooky sixth sense about who can and cannot transcend what they seem to be.
It seems to have partly to do with the get better gene and partly to do with some kind of fierce drive.
It’s improbable, but when Self sees something potentially extraordinary, he tends to get it out eventually.
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He came as a 2 guard in high school and then played like one, when he played point his first season.
Both Rivals and KU have Mason listed as PG out of HS, I am not sure why you think he was a 2. Yes, he was a volume shooter while in HS but a PG all the same.
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Maybe @jaybate-1-0 read this article, that says Mason never played PG before KU. Saw himself as a “scoring guard”, which makes his KU achievements all the more noteworthy.
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Buffer 1
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Wasn’t…
Wilt 6-11?
DMan strictly defense?
Wayne an atheist without a money move on the block?
Jo Jo a step slow with no outside shot?
Frank a POY runner up?
BRush no D?
Chalmers unable to make a big shot?
Sherron a vegan?
Ben Mac from a rich family?
Perry a chatter box?
Paul Pierce a 6th man for Phog Allen?
Dean Smith a starter for W.O. Hamilton?
Coach K Irish?
Coach Cal an adidas guy?
Naismith a Buddhist?
I’m just questioning things so much!
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Buffer 2
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@jaybate-1-0 i enjoy your recollection of a young Frank, because while I didn’t have the same impressions exactly, I can remember the gaps in his game you mention and they were valid. I think I was so ready to believe in a press breaking phenom that I didn’t let myself doubt at the time. And then as you said, Bill Self saw the extraordinary potential and coaxed it out of Frank.
And @KUSTEVE, you’re a good fan for having that same kind of faith in Marcus’ potential. I watched some highlights of Jacobs too yesterday and of the the two, you are right, it is possible that Garrett could be the match up nightmare.
The guy who was telling me about Amari Mason’s dribbling said this when trying to quantify how good it is: “when you see a kid that can dribble that well at that young an age you know they’re going to be good at it their whole lives. It’s just a natural skill”.
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@approxinfinity I used to be good at dribbling. Now, over 60, I seem to be better at drooling.
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@mayjay lol. well, you might have the “get worse” gene
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Garrett by all accounts has the “get better” gene. It’s one consistent thing heard about him.
As for Mason he was listed as a PG by pretty much all the recruiting services and was definitely viewed as such by the KU staff based on articles. However as we saw from his early seasons, he had a lot of work to do to become a proper facilitating PG and the beast that he became in his SR year. I don’t agree with @jaybate-1-0 about his dribbling, but his decision making was definitely a weak point/concern in the past.
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Even drooling could be a powerful offensive weapon in Self’s hands. Imagine how much tougher the weave would be to guard with a drool trail.
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@jaybate-1.0 Unfortunately, a “pull up jumper” becomes something to wear in the old folks home rather than a basketball play
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"Mason never played point guard until he arrived at Kansas. He called himself a "scoring guard"
I beg to differ. while he never called himself a PG but a “scoring guard” according to all the recruiting services and his previous 2 high school he was indeed a PG although I saw one place where he is listed as both but I have yet to find any source that lists him as SG onl;y.
"Only Townsend got distracted by a little guard dribbling circles around everyone else, including McLaughlin."
Again, you don’t SG dribbling circles around other players, typically a PG is the one that would do this.
"The nuances of the point guard position, however, were unbeknownst to him."
This is typical of most HS players that have had average HS coaching and whose talent gets them by.
"“Teach me how to be a point guard,” he told the coaches, “because I don’t know.”"
Again, this statement does not indicate that he was not a PG but he did not how to be one at the Division I level.
Semantics aside, has anyone ever considered Mason to be a SG and not a PG? I could not find a single source that would support this.
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Lol!
