Keegan's Bluff
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@JhwkrRedLegs Man, don’t sell Lucas short. We don’t have his experience level in the post this season. Is our ceiling higher with out him? Sure. But we have zero players in the post that played meaningful minutes for KU last season.
I’m not saying we’re gonna be bad, its just going to be a learning curve for our bigs.
Lucas knew Coach’s system and was big enough to not be pushed off his spot on defense.
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BShark said:
Not top 5? lol please Keegan
UNC/MSU/AZ/KU
That’s the top 4 EVERYONE should have and I think it’s mostly interchangeable.
UNC dependent on Bradley’s return. Their front-court looking mighty weak without him. Maye solid but he is what he is. Probably a middle Top-10 team with him, in the teens without.
We all know there won’t be a pre-season top 5 without Kentucky & Duke in it. As soon as the media realizes College Basketball is coming back around they shove themselves head deep in their jock-strap.
Tough predicting who’s going to be good. A lot of brand names lost a lot of talent. A quick look through:
AAC- Wichita St, top 10 team/Cincinnati looks the class, SMU down, UCONN lost a ton.
ACC- Duke- will start 3 freshman and Tripper is back, UNC- loses 3 starters and down recruiting yr, Virginia- down, Louisville- has best starting 5 in conference but will rely on freshman in rotation, Notre Dame- level but no bench, FSU- down big-time, Miami- level with chance to be better, Virginia Tech- level with chance to be good again.
A-10- VCU- down, Dayton- down, Rhode Island- can be a tourney team again.
Big-10- Wisconsin- down, Michigan St- Top 3 team, Michigan- down dependent on Wagner/Wilson, Purdue- down, Maryland- level depending on Jackson, Northwestern- can build off last season, Minnesota- same, can be better, rest of league terrible.
Big-12 KU- obvious Top 10 team, Baylor- down but Top 25, WVU- level, ISU- down, OU- should be much improved, TCU- should be much improved.
Big East- Nova- down slightly, Butler- Level, Xavier- Down if Bluiett leaves, Seton Hall- Level, Creighton- Down, Providence- level.
Pac-12- Arizona- Top 10 team, Alkins decision key, Oregon- Down, UCLA- Down, dependent on draft decisions, USC- Top 10 team if Stewart/Aaron return, rest of league terrible.
SEC- Kentucky- 7 of 10 are freshman, down if Diallo stays in (Bamba wildcard?). Florida- Top 10 team, South Carolina- Top 25 team, Arkansas- Top 25 team, rest of league is guess work to terrible.
Gonzaga- down, waiting on Williams decision.
Going to be a very unpredictable season past the top 5-7 teams
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Him hinging our season on Dokie, I think is a little off. For One I don’t feel to be honest that is being very fair to Dokie. I mean when he came here in the first place they said/we knew from what we told he was raw offensively and that it would take some time for time to develop. Then he played what in 11 games is it? With that being said it isn’t like he played huge minutes in those games, so it’s not like he is some chiseled veteran warrior, then he is injured and is out the rest of the season. Slowing that development that we had heard he needed.
So my questioned to Keegan, did I miss something? - -He was immobilized for sometime while he was down - - not being able to do anything, because of that injury. So I’m just curious has there been a miracle happen with our beast over night? Did Dokie just POOF become an instant 20/10 over night? - -Seriously though Dokie hasn’t had really anytime to develop further or any to talk about since the injury. He STILL has that development to achieve, which like I have said before means I feel just like I stand by saying SVI is gone, I feel that we will STILL have Dokie for 2 years. this yr and next. WHY? because he was unable to obtain that development that we were told he needed - -improvement of his offensive - him being able to play the defensive end without the quick foul trouble. - He basically just had to sit the reminder of the season and do nothing, until late when he might of been able to do a little conditioning.
With that being said I don’t see it where Keegan saying that our season hinges on him, really isn’t fair to him - -still raw. - If your wanting to say if your going that route, if you want to predict where our season hinges on - again I think it’s going to hinge more once again on the play of our back court. - - -Devonte , Vick , Newman. Now I’m not saying Devonte can or will have the type of season that Frank did BUT his experience , I DO think he will step forward a little more take that leadership role, Then even though he sit last year Newman already has the offensive skill and I think there are SOME that are not giving him enough credit and are going to be surprised at what he can bring - the kid is a stud, can flat out ball, and has a year of experience at the D-1 level and then a year of practice under Coach. Everything I’ve heard he has been looking really good. - -Then Vick JR year, I think will just continue better, if he can improve defensively some then this is where I feel our season Hinges more then Dokie - -again just feel like that’s a little much to try and place on him at this point.
That’s not saying he can’t/wont have a good - -really good season but to say our season hinges and goes as he goes NA I’m not seeing that - -ya he will be a piece of it but not hinging on it. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Correction, Wichita State is in the AAC and not in the A10.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Correction, Wichita State is in the AAC and not in the A10.
Woops, fixed.
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Keep an eye on Valpo replacing WSU in the MVC. I have a feeling you might be watching the beginnings of our next Head Coach.
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Its actually a valid concern or prediction about Doke. We saw how much we missed Doke’s talent but because we had the best OAD in KU history and POY we compensated.
Now the OAD and POY is gone and certainly our front-court lost Lucas so he’s definitely the key to the season. If he’s not able to anchor the post I’m not sure where the upcoming season goes…
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WSU is def a top 10 team. They return everyone.
And yeah @BeddieKU23 Duke and UK will crawl up the rankings. I’m going to wait and see with both. Duke = Tripper and the Frosh. Duval can’t shoot which is a detriment for playing at Duke. They have pieces but are super Young. UK looks like they have the same issue again, not enough shooters. They sure do have a lot of wings/combo forwards though. They could be a nightmare defensively if they lock in, but with so many FR that may not be consistent game to game.
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Gary Parrish of CBS Sports just upgraded the rankings and guess who he has at #1…
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If we are healthy this is a top 5 team. I know I am incredibly biased and always think KU is going to be unreal but we have a lot of talent returning / incoming. Our talent + our home court advantage at AFH should mean another season close to 30 wins and another season where we are in the top 5-10 all season long.
Personally I already can’t wait for college hoops again. The NBA playoffs are fun but for my money it just isn’t the same.
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@Lulufulu Another way to state the situation is: This year it will still be bigs-by-committee, although unproven, this year’s “committee” is better than last year’s, on paper. They still havent played as a unit yet.
Personally, hated to see Coleby transfer. Not because he’s a savior, but because his 12-18mpg, potentially, could have been very useful as a 25% piece of post play. He would have sub’d for Doke. Lightfoot subbing for Preston. But now, we try to fit in the Wm&Mary guy in that committee.Anyone that saw what happened to Lucas vs Oregon will realize one of our most fundamental problems with last year’s team. I dont have to “sell” Lucas short. He already proved my point.
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IMHO, Whitman is an upgrade over Coleby. Obviously Coleby did not think he could beat Whitman for playing time so he did the next best thing and is transferring, likely to a school with less competition.
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Did anyone else noticed that Seth Davis was laid off by SI with another 4 writers? Tough times to be in the sports reporting business.
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@JayHawkFanToo guess we’ll see in about 2 and 1/2 months.
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@JayHawkFanToo It could be that Whitman adds a little more all around versatility, eventhough he may give up some athleticism compared to Coleby. In the videos I’ve seen of Whitman, I’d agree he looks more versatile than Coleby showed. Also, maybe he avoids the 3 fouls in 7min that seemed to be Coleby’s trend.
An unrelated point, is this B-grade revolving door, ala KY, but with retread players, not freshman MickeyDs. A B-grade knock off of KY? Or maybe this is just Self navigating the changing landscape of recruiting. A dizzying amount of transfers, even in college football. Look what Beaty is dealing with as well. Or maybe wheeling and dealing…
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@JhwkrRedLegs yeah, I don’t see how the disadvantages to pulling these high talent and/or high skill transfers could possibly outweigh the advantages.
We’re talking about a top ten recruit in Newman that Self wanted in the first place, and then got to see a year of in D-I. I think his performance this year in particular will be a bell-weather for future recruiting class compositions. If he comes in and crushes it, I would hope that the matter would be settled that we aren’t taking a recruiting backseat to Kentucky. We are getting the guys we want.
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@approxinfinity Agreed, that would be nice.
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What’s in your cigars Keegs? You see the team half empty. They will be quite the contrary. You think they are worse off without JJ. I think they are better off since having him. He raised the bar and the team is better for it. They may play a little different, but Self is HOF for a reason. Sit back, enjoy your cigar, and watch this team over achieve yet again.
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Do you all really want to “thank” Bill Self for his total smoke & mirrors job with KU’s post play last season? I guess a little bit, just because of the Conf Title…or do you give the credit to Frank & Josh?
Thx Bill, greatest wool pulling since Wooden went undefeated and ringed with no one over 6-5 starting!!!
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@jayballer54 If Doke is even half the sponge that Joel was at KU, he’s gonna be One and done. BUT, that’s an awful big sponge even being half of what Joel was. So, two and done might be more realistic. Who knows? We will see. I agree though. I think KU is primed for another excellent season next fall. As we all know, the Big 12 runs through Lawrence.
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The big question for me is, do we gain from Whitman instead of Coleby? At first, I was certain we didn’t. The more I processed it, the more it makes sense. Coleby was never going to play along side Doke, while Whitman certainly will. Whitman can score down low in a variety of ways, which has become a very rare occurrence for some time now ( excluding our dunks. we always get dunks ). Coleby wouldn’t have been able to help if Preston doesn’t make the grade, so to speak. Whitman allows us to go big all the time. Self used to post up Perry with mixed results- now he has a 4 that can finish. Now we’re not having to rely as much on a freshman ( Preston ).
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@KUSTEVE Spot on. If you watch enough on Whitman the kid id fluid like to finish has good foot work in a variety of ways, he is for sure more mobile then Colby probably run the floor better for sure. - I think he will be able to back Dokie & Preston either way OR he may even move in the spot over Preston at the 4 I think we are going to be ok. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I agree with Keegan that JJ and BIFM arent replaceable, but I still think we could be a better team, honestly i thought we were better in 2016 than 2017. How could we better better? Well low post scoring for the first time since Emiid left( who was hurt when it mattered). I love LL and always will, we need 4 or 5 year guys but he doesn’t start on 3/4s of Self’s teams here. I honestly think Doke could double LL’s production, which would pretty much be 15 ppg and 15 rpg, with Whittman or Preston and Lightfoot improving we will have better subs for the post (Bragg, Coleby and Lightfoot were all good for about 3 games a piece to be honest). Our PG wont have to average 21 ppg to make up for our starting center averaging 8. DG can average his 14, Newman can score with anyone and average JJ’s 16, Vick or Svi both can average over 10 which Svi averaged 9 LY, who ever starts at the 4 could average around 12 and Doke around 15 which is collectively the same in terms of scoring(21,14, 9, 16 and 8 is what starters had last year and bench was 7ppg). The defense and rebounding LY was statistically one of worst in the Self era, we let up a ton of points, so i dont really see us getting worse in those areas.
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@wrwlumpy Udunka
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@jaybate-1.0 And Dana Altman pulled back that wool that Self had so deftly crafted, to expose…?
Or was it Oregon’s Bell that exposed us? Or their tall Mr. March guard?
Something undid that wool…
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@kjayhawks Nice breakdown. Believable projections. Hope you are right.
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Relying on outside shooting without an absolutely lockdown defense is a recipe for March upset.
KU was great in many ways but it just did not have a lockdown defense. It could be intense at times, but it just could not intimidate opponents the way some Self defenses have.
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P.S.: And its pretty tough to lock down any where with out a credible rotation of big men in the paint.
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I’m not saying the Udoka is Okafer, but Udoka this season could be a highly productive “only big on the floor.” He can give us rim protection that we lacked with LL. @jaybate-1-0 is right. The lock down defense is impossible without credible bigs. Coleby was not a credible big. Bragg wasn’t either (though he had the talent to be). And LL lacked in the rim protection category. Self’s best coaching job in my opinion with the patch work up front.
This season seems like it might be different defensively.
We will not be as strong on the perimeter, which is not a bold statement. But could we be better?
I don’t think we’ll necessarily be better over the course of a season, record wise, but we may be a team more sustainable in March. Better D.
It’s a national championship season at Kansas, and we expect that, until it isn’t.
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If Self can just find a back up that can credibly guard, rebound and rim protect for the minutes Udoka is fouled up, or resting, Udoka and the rest of the team appear to constitute the pieces needed for being a serious challenger for the Carney ring that would, in turn, appear to necessitate seeding path bias and whistle bias to keep them out of the Final Four. The media-gaming complex has to be hoping Self does NOT find that back-up.
Rock Chalk!
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@KUSTEVE But can Walt Whitman pull off the same moves against Major D1 bigs…that to me is the big question. But I like what I see on tape.
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@jaybate-1.0 Which we did not have this season, like, at all. Lucas was good. Pretty good even. But Lando was no Darnell or Sasha or Cole, or Withey or TRob.
Doke could actually be a beast down low for us.
Anyone got a finger on the pulse of who might be able to add to that?
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@Fightsongwriter He played well against Dook- not as well against Louisville. Of course, Louisville started two 7 footers, as I recall. And Whitman did not have a 7 footer in the lineup to help him, or DG, Vick, Newman and company. I see a poor man’s Collison as reference. The difference in basketball intelligence from Bragg to him…well, it is going to be night and day.
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@KUSTEVE Even if he is just a clean nosed hard worker (with post moves!), it will make an enormous difference.
