HEY GUYS
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Although I didnt see the original post, since it has been edited, evidently, but the discussion about phraseology is telling enough. Although I’d never use the “r” word myself, this whole side discussion is bothersome, because it is going off-topic, needlessly. A perfect, perfect example of people on 2 sides of a conversation, who can take a common phrase or common word, and apply “another” of the word’s or phrase’s connotations, and manufacture it to now be offensive. Just stop. Its exactly whats been going on nationwide. The pansyfication of america (with the lowercase ‘a’). There’s a little, small, tiny detail called context. Nobody is disrespecting anyone’s daughter, nor was such (criminal, voilent offense) part of this discussion. Like nobody knew what the writer was trying to say? How many views did that comment get and how many ‘got’ what the writer meant, irrespective of what they thought about the style or diction/phraseology used? I got a theory about which side the overwhelming majority of readers would be on. And most of that majority knows an abstraction when they see one.
How would some of these ‘sports fans’ do if they were stuck right in the middle of the losing KU or NFL locker room at halftime and had to hear the red,red,red-faced version of Self or most NFL coaches on a tirade? I guarantee many of ‘these’ fans would be uneasy, offended, etc. …And some of those would actually cease to be fans of Self or whatever coach. Cant even handle lockerroom banter.
But clearly and easily missed the whole point: it was just colorful, questionable-taste banter…nothing more. Pick a better battle.
Or, instead of the distasteful ‘visual’ of the phrase “bend over &…”, maybe the writer opts to be more simpler, more direct and say “we got screwed…” (everybody knows the context)…or as we’ve all heard since jr. high: “we got F’d…” (everybody knows what this abstraction means). In the 80s, we used to say “hosed” (but no doubt some would even mfg an offense out of that one: “what do you mean by ‘hose’, is that referring to a body part?”) …shock…indignation…hurt feelings… L.O.L.
A great Bill Self abstract phrase applies here: Soft. And maybe what he has also said about KU fans: spoiled. (Soft and spoiled).
Cliff Notes version of above: trying to mfg an offense when the original writer was simply using an abstract phrase, is a pointless exercise. By doing so, the replier puts himself outside the discussion–missing the point because of diction, or at least that’s what some of us may wonder (“why’d he go there?” We know what the writer meant, why didnt this replying guy get it?).
Want to play the game of spinning someone’s words? I’ll play that game, sure…we can flesh out this “sidebar”, right? Play devils advocate. I honestly dont think the writer was trying to offend anyone, even with his original phrase used, which was absolutely an abstraction.
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@mayjay I gave you a +1 for allowing us to think on these concepts further. I do think 100% of us would agree about the heinousness of the criminal act of rape. But “equating sports with war” is a fairly different concept. (The remainder of this post is NOT directed @mayjay, but simply is food for thought for all bucketeers).
Wasnt the Olympics started by the Greeks as a noble idea to allow nations to “spar” through sports? There are FAR too many analogies to ‘battle’ to ignore. Actually, we would be ignorant if we pretended they do not exist: battle in the trenches, air raid, blitzing secondary, blitzing LBs, all out blitz, longrange bombs, got speared, cut off at the knees, cut down, steamrollered, soft, getting “owned”, who’s your daddy, head-hunting free safety, getting decimated, front line…
Actually, my counter-postulate is that sports are a great substitute for actual warfare, just exactly as the Greeks intended. I’d much, much, MUCH rather have us use the above phraseology to apply to football or basketball, than actual battlefield conflicts. Being a 30+yr avid, lifelong historian on armed conflicts (Revolutionary War, Civil War, Indian Wars, WW1, WW2, Vietnam, modern wars), I have ample reference books showing ghastly and grisly details of all the above conflicts. I know mankind’s inner nature (collectively speaking): it is indeed warlike and territorial, and that, ladies and gentlemen, has NOT changed thru the ages. Just look at the 20th century alone, all ‘civilized’ nations included. You have your proof. Dont ignore it like the progressives do.
People want to belong to something. They want to be a part of something. So it is awesome to have NCAA and NFL teams you and me can be a part of: get the gear, go to games, passionately discuss your team(s)–until, of course, you come across someone who wants to mfg an offense or insult out of your sports-directed passion, right? I personally think all the above phrases used in sports are harmless, compared to when those exact same phrases are used in a time of armed conflict. Again, dont let context bite us in the a– (oops, there’s another abstraction, dang it…). And if I was to educationally tell some young child or teenager about the origin of the phrase, it would serve, very appropriately as a sobering reminder of the horrors of war.
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@ralster I agree with both your post, I should’ve used a different word. But it doesn’t mean that I dont take that kind of thing seriously. Anyone that has read my comments on Briles from Baylor knows this. @mayjay I wont use it again, I just fell like I was insulted for using a word bye its meaning.
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@kjayhawks I knew what you meant, guess some are just offended - -most knew what you were talking about or trying to get across - - and you like myself am absolutely 100% correct because that is what the committee done. I mean why play the regular season if this is how they are going to reward a " SEASON’S" full of hard work and effort from the ladies. - - Did they sees Texas off their NAME. Sorry if this offends anyone but I’m gonna say it anyways - -give me a fricking break. Looks to me like they rewarded them for their past. SOOOOO now the ladies prize for going 26-2 - - winning the conference championship - -the same conference that TEXAS is in - -the same TEXAS that was and still is rated below us in the top 20 in volleyball we are 4th and I believe they are 7th, our reward for splitting the series with them, our reward? - - we get to go to Austin - - -again play on the home floor, of course with the understanding we win our first 2 , which I feel if we play like we can then this will play out - - but this is our reward for the season - - makes perfectly good sense to me - - -UN-BELIEVABLE - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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All that being said, yes, the KU ladies suffered “a serious injustice” by the selection committee…
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@ralster @kjayhawks I think you both missed my point. Although there are other meanings to the word rape that don’t mean the crime, that casual use has only come into common practice in the past few decades. My concern is not that I was “offended”: it was a plea to keep the word for use in the heinous context only to make it retain its opprobrium–to describe a horrible act and not daily disappointments.
There is an especially awful lifelong effect on rape victims, often unknown to everyone around them. The effects of getting a bad seed, or losing a game, or anything else like that, don’t compare.
Anyone thinking it is acceptable to casually use the word, maybe you can check with anyone you know who has been raped. See how they feel about it. (It is not being a pansy, @ralster, to be aware that people around you might have different reactions stemming from different experiences.) If you find victims who don’t mind the word being used as you defend, I am wrong. Bbut I think you will have to search very hard, and I bet there aren’t a lot of them.
Finally, @kjayhawks, I acknowledged that you didn’t intend anything bad so there was no reason to feel accused. I was making a larger context point. People can listen if they want, close their ears if they want, but language has impact and it doesn’t hurt to be reminded of this.
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@mayjay Why are you preaching about rape and its heinousness to us? Of course its heinous. Nobody is contesting that, are they?? I personally think use of the word “rape” is too stark to use as an abstraction or colloquial expression. I would only use it for its criminal act context. But thats just me personally.
Maybe you’d better realize there is a wide, wide variation in ages and experiences, even generational differences between those of us who post here–I’m 50 with a 28yr old daughter and a 17yr old son, as well as a wife (served in USAF) who dealt with a situation in her early teen years I wish her mom could have protected her from. So dont need any reminding, & I speak for myself. I may be looking to make some point. Or, contrarily, I may be looking to make a counterpoint or simply play devil’s advocate from a debate banter sort of way. Im a fan of Self for too many reasons, chiefly, his midwestern beliefs, his ideas on playstyle, and toughness especially. He’s what 2 or 3 yrs older than me, I get where he’s coming from. Known many guys like him. But true that all guys even in their 50s are NOT cut from the same cloth.
I almost want to/dont want to …ask you what you think of this whole concept of microagressions? Dare I ask? (Beware, I already have formulated some idea of what you may say about it.)
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@ralster said:
Maybe you’d better realize there is a wide, wide variation in ages and experiences, even generational differences between those of us who post here…
That was the basis for my post–different people could have different–even extreme–reactions to that word; it isn’t unfair to let casual users of it know that it can be loaded for some. There are lots of articles on line written by rape victims about how it can wrench them back to their experience.
Microaggressions?–I don’t recognize the concept. Absurd to me, as no doubt to you. But to extend: Real aggressions, however?–I fully support efforts to stamp them out, and think bullying of defenseless people deserves being booted out the airlock.
A couple of others: “Rape culture”? Don’t agree with that as an indictment of society, or of men, as a whole as some contend. Rape as a major problem and too often laughed about or ignored?–Absolutely. (Need we go any further than Stanford rapist dad referring to his son’s rape of an unconscious woman as “20 minutes of action”?)
Lecturing or sermonizing, by the way, is all anyone can do to effect change on an issue they feel requires elucidation. Read about any gang rape and you often see witnesses who said they were not willing to get involved, or even participants who were not willing to object. Maybe educating people about the whole subject can broaden the awareness needed to give more people enough moral courage to speak up. My exposure was extreme. Most people prefer not to be exposed, and for good reason.
I note you might tend toward sermonizing, too! (By the way, I wanted to fork this over to a new thread but didn’t know how.)
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Back to Volleyball…I understand that many fans feel that KU got…pick your own expression…but I really don’t believe is that bad. Texas beat KU 3-1 in Austin and lost 3-2 in Lawrence, so slight edge to Texas. Texas lost to Defending Champion and #2 Nebraska and #3 Wisconsin and one bad loss to ISU. KU has one bad loss to Purdue.
In the rankings, KU was #4 and Texas #5, but these are rankings voted by the coaches and do not include things like strength of schedule or RPI. For the tournament, forum posters listed KU as a #5 seed which is misleading and perhaps the reason for the dissatisfaction; KU was not just a #5 seed but the “overall” #5 seed and simply switched places with Texas which the NCAA estimated had a tougher schedule. Being 1 position off the ranking does not seem too bad to me. Can anyone explain to me why this is so egregiously bad?
We see this all the time in basketball; in 2015 Wichita State, a team that had been at times in the top 10 and all season long in the top 20 got a #7 seed, which means it was somewhere between 25-28 overall, that is probably 10 spots lower than it should have been…did not work well for KU, BTW.
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@JayHawkFanToo I agreed about WSUs seeding that year, they should have been a 4 or 5 and we should’ve been a 3 with Cliff out and Perry not a 100%. Us winning the same conference would have been to me the deciding factor, playing against the same teams, with a better record. Purdue wasn’t a terrible lost at the time idk where they ended up but was ranked 14th when we lost to them on the road. I just feel like the deck was stacked against as it is in BB most of the time. @mayjay I can see some of what your saying, I tend to agree more with @ralster. But it’s not worth an argument, I’m fine not using it and I’m ok to agree to disagree with anyone.
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@JayHawkFanToo I noticed the difference between “a 5 seed” and “the overall national 5 seed” but not before all the dissatisfaction was voiced. Your analysis is penetrating. The LDJ site, or KCStar, also explains that the seeding was partly due to KU’s arena being below Elite 8 standards and there is a huge conflict with AFH that would require use of a nonstandard floor for the vball teams, at least for practice or something.
Incidentally, what do people think about Ohio State not winning the Big 10 East yet likely to still be in the FB playoffs?
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@kjayhawks Agreeing to disagree is a welcome relief from all the people of all persuasions nationwide who seem unable to conceive that people can genuinely have different ideas and still be good Americans! Thank you.
Of course, I am excluding Mizzou fans from my generalization. Just sayin’…
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@JayHawkFanToo yadayada don’t want to hear it. We did not not lose to ISU
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Do you think that the difference between the overall #4 and#5 is that big? I certainly don’t. Best way to prove them wrong is…win baby win…
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@JayHawkFanToo yes I do! We should’ve been rewarded! How many years? Payne train went down w/sprain and we still did it. Seeding had nothing to do w/court size. There are options. It would be nice to play them at home because the ladies deserve it!
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@JayHawkFanToo Its huge because starting this year the top 4 seeds host their regional, so if we win three times and they do we play in their house.
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Like I said, the best way to prove them wrong is to win. Remember the 2007 NCAA when #1 ranked KU had to plat #2 UCLA in their backyard? or 1988 when KU got to play the Final Four in Kansas City? It happens all the time, in all sports; KU basketball is shafted location-wise by the NCAA on a yearly basis and it sucks but it deals with it.
Kansas head coach Ray Bechard
On not being a top-four seed: "You split hairs between the fourth and fifth seed, probably, but let’s really rejoice in being the highest seed in Kansas volleyball history: a five seed. With the type of regular season we have had, hopefully we can keep that momentum going into a really strong NCAA tournament."
BTW, i could not find a link that indicates that KU was seeded #5 instead of #4 because of its small arena; maybe someone can provide a link?
In any case, I mentioned before that KU should be playing some games at AFH and I was told by several posters that Horejsi Family Athletics Center represented a distinctive advantage for KU…well, apparently playing in a small arena does have advantages but it also does have some consequences. I am a big fan of the Volleyball team and I hope they kick butt in the tournament; I have the procedure to by-pass the black out down path and I will be using it for men’s basketball this evening and if needed for the volleyball games as well. I think this is a team of destiny and it will do juts fine wherever they play.
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@JayHawkFanToo believe me they were disappointed, classy guy and not the time.
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@JayHawkFanToo Here it is. Jesse Newell article from 11/27. Make sure you have recently cleared your cookies or the KCStar site limits your access. I tried to cut and paste it but there were major frustrating format issues. My phone was starting to smoke, or maybe it was coming out of my ears.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article117438783.html
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
Seeding had nothing to do w/court size. There are options.
Please read the article. Options were severely limited. Might be a good incentive to build a 4500 seat site.
The football team could possibly get their first sellout in years there, too!
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@JayHawkFanToo I understand what your saying for sure - - BUT still think it’s wrong. Again I mean the ladies have every goal so far they have sit out to do. Be in the top 10 nationally, de-thorne Texas from their 5 year rein as big 12 champs and I’m sure personal goals also. Which by the way while I think about it Congrads to Kelsi for being named BIG 12 Player of the year in volleyball WTG , great job.
But back to what I was saying STILL this is our reward for the long over all season? – Top 10 all year, - -26-2 - - - Big 12 champs & split with Texas? - -our reward? - - if we win our 1st 3 then we face off with them - -AGAIN on their home floor - -just doesn’t seem right to me, no matter how you spin it, but it’s all gravy - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay still has no bearing on seeding. That’s the article I was referring too. If we continue to win they may not except our bid. I remember when we played at expo center- Topeka a couple of years ago. Seems like I heard they may add on in the future, just enough to qualify
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@jayballer54 I think @DanR helped you last time?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Hmmm…Maybe I was reading between the lines. I know the NCAA has a history of adjusting seeds for logistical reasons. I thought the “problems for KU hosting the second weekend” was a reference to that, otherwise I didn’t see the relevance to the long discussion of problems if it simply goes to a better seed.
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@mayjay that’s right but doesn’t change your seeding
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@Crimsonorblue22 @JayHawkFanToo
Apparently my conclusions are not shared by our coach:
From a LDJ article on Sunday I wish I had seen before: …
Bechard laughed off any suggestion that the selection committee might have given Texas the nod over Kansas because it has a facility available for all time slots for the regional round.
“No way, they are going to seed them one through 16 and then figure out who can host and who can’t host,” Bechard said. …
Well, when you are wrong it is good to get it settled, no?
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@mayjay trust me, I’m always right!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Well, no duh!
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@mayjay glad we have that cleared up. Texass might get knocked off before they get to us. They have some big assssss gals. KU is having a good year vs texass so far!
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and soon to be
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I have no doubt that the team was disappointed by the seeding but it was based on RPI and SOS; Texas was #2 and KU was #6.
"There’s more that goes into it, though. KU coach Ray Bechard admitted that he’d spent a lot of time trying to pick out strong nonconference foes to help his team’s RPI, and many of those squads didn’t perform as expected."
As a result, the last RPI posted on NCAA.com had Texas second and KU sixth.
Unfortunately, KU’s opponents did not perform overall as well as Texas; nothing anyone can do about it.
As you know, programs schedule opponents with an eye on the RPI. KU Basketball, according to HC Self, has one of the best schedulers in the business in projecting where teams will be and scheduling accordingly; consequently KU always end up with a very high SOS and a a good RPI resulting from winning most of those games. Look at it this way, the season before last KU and ISU split in men’s basketball in the regular season and ISU beat KU in the Conference tournament and won the title; however, KU had a #2 seed and ISU a #3 since KU had the better RPI. Like I said, it happens all the time and sometimes you benefit from it and some times you don’t…
Would I have liked to see KU as the #4 seed? abso-frigging-lutely YES. Do I feel KU got shafted by the NCAA? Emotions would lead me to say yes, but the numbers and logic -in my opinion- would seem to indicate no.
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@JayHawkFanToo give it up, can’t change my mind!
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@JayHawkFanToo
Careful, when @Crimsonorblue22 starts flinging emojis you’re toast.I know. Look at what happened to me. She even went back and changed Sunday newspaper stories! The woman has no peer.
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You gotta love @Crimsonorblue22, no body loves KU more than she does…she is also the de-facto forum mom that keeps us all unruly kids in line.
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@JayHawkFanToo tough job! I have 2 great boys to show for it!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Can I have the keys and some money?
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@mayjay speaking of the keys, last week I had a mouse run across my feet on my way to work. I yelled! Was barely out of the drive so not going to fast. Slammed it into park and jumped out. Opened the doors and back, saw him come out from under pass. Side and go up under dash. Went on and didn’t look down. A guy at work looked around and couldn’t find anything. He was chewing on a scarf. Couple of years ago while getting my car serviced my in cabin filter was full of dog food. Dog food secured now. Caught a few in the garage but I think I have one living under the hood.
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Be very careful with mice; they will chew wiring like there is no tomorrow and they can get through the smallest openings.
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@JayHawkFanToo so what do I do?
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Make sure mice is gone and all openings from engine compartment to inside the car are sealed so you don’t get them again. Here is a link to a video with suggestions.
. You can find lots of videos on YouTube with instructions on how to get rid of mice in cars.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m sure this will be right up my alley
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@Crimsonorblue22 I had an old 1969 Rambler that depended on the mice under the hood to turn the treadmill. Early version of a hybrid.
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I had a mouse destroy the wiring harness to my work truck. Apparently it was crawling up under the hood for warmth when I parked at the shed. The mice have all since been killed at the shed. Let’s just say it was fumigated.
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The difference between a four and a five seed in this tournament is huge. If it were on a neutral court it wouldn’t be a big deal, but this gives Texas home field in games 3-4 that KU should have. And we all know the girls love to play at Horejsi. It’s a disservice to the hard work they did in the regular season to do so.
The selection committees too often rely upon RPI to do their job. I don’t know enough about volleyball to be objective, but in general I’d take body of work + confernce champion + eye test over RPI/BPI/BSPI.
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Even if KU was the overall #4 seed, it could not have been able to play the regional at Horejsi since it does not meet the NCAA guidelines. KU looked at Topeka Convention Center, Municipal Auditorium and Sprint Center in KC and they were all booked as was AFH. The only way to play at AFH was to get a special variance from the NCAA to change game and practice times. If KU was the #4 seed and advanced, it would most likely have had to play at the locations of the next lower seed in its bracket anyway, so all of this is really moot.
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@JayHawkFanToo ask the team if it’s a moot pt? Did you play sports?
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@mayjay Good points, even if we may differ on taking over a thread with an outside topic…which, of course I’m guilty of partaking in myself from time to time.
You do make great points about “re-living” awful traumatic experiences. I do help at a VA, & it is indeed notable how many suffer from PTSD from either battlefield scenarios, or military sexual trauma, that indeed happens, as Im sure you are aware. I do thank you for helping those so affected. And thank you for your service, sir!
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@JayHawkFanToo Playing at Texas or a neutral court that KU has a hand in picking, hmm…
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@Crimsonorblue22 Put poison in your car, this time a year we get a ton of cars with mice trouble, I’ve seen some nasty things that can happen when they get into the blower motor. Believe me you never wanna clean that mess or chase wires that they may have chewed thru.
