Best posts made by MoonwalkMafia

For quite some time there has been a schism developing amongst KU fans. It’s an easy one to see both ways, but it is a divisive and polarizing issue for a reason. On the one hand you have the fans that stand behind Bill Self no matter the circumstance. Their arguments are more than understandable. Bill Self is a phenomenal coach; he has reached the mountaintop in 2008, he’s brought home a record number of Big 12 championships that has put him in company with some of the game’s greatest. On the other hand is the group that is trying to push our fan base in the direction that the vast majority of sports has gone. The direction that utilizes advanced statistics to determine correlated factors to reach the dependent variable that we are constantly pursuing. In our case that dependent variable is a National Championship.

This is a good post and a discussion that simply needs to be had. We’re all excited about the win against Oklahoma, and to be sure this was a great win. People are already making comparisons to the OT victory over Mizery, which, to me, was the final stake being driven through the heart of that poor, sad, pathetic fanbase. Unfortunately, HOW we win is often just as important and telling about our team as anything else. On that 2012 team there is little to dissect in terms of strategy. We played a 6-man rotation. There was little room to second-guess decisions. This team–as has been stated by pretty much everyone–has 11 players that could see extensive PT on just about any team in the country. The topic of discussion here is yet again, the playing time of Landen Lucas and Jamari Traylor.

I have a strong sense of affinity for most posters on here. However, my largest problem is the contingent of fans that believe that Coach Self is infallibly right because he coaches the game and gets paid a lot to do so. I’m sorry, but this way of thinking is sadly ignorant. Again, it essentially says anyone in a position of authority is right because they are in a position of authority. That goes against the very core of what we are as Americans and people living in Democracy. I am not a highly paid professional basketball coach, this much is true, but I can tell you that mistakes have been made by those in positions of authority throughout history, and most definitely throughout the history of basketball.

I am, of many things a historian. I have studied it extensively throughout my life and it is my passion. Robert E. Lee was a brilliant military strategist–much more intelligent than me. But I can tell you that Pickett’s Charge at Gettysburg was a calamitous disaster. Possibly the worst decision he ever made. As a graduate student I have taken to studying economics. I’m no genius, nor will I be Chairman of the Federal Reserve anytime soon, but I can tell you that Alan Greenspan should have stuck to his guns when he said in 1995 that we should heed the warnings of Japan where overheated markets were not cooled by the Bank of Japan leading to the real estate-bubble that developed in the late 1980s and then burst in 1989. We experienced much the same in 2008 by the moves set in motion during the 1990s and then the early 2000s. I am no expert, but these disasters were obvious during their development and they’re obvious now. I fear that we may be treading down a similar path this season (of course, this is basketball and as a historian comparing the deaths of brave men, or even the economic wellbeing of an entire society are simply not comparable. However, I feel that you all understand the central point towards which I am pursuing).

Landen Lucas’s player efficiency rating is considerably higher than it has been in the past, yet it is still lower than other players we have on this team. As several other posters have pointed out, Bragg has reached this point, and while Diallo makes head-scratching-decisions, his mistakes are without a doubt correctable. That may be the most infuriating point of this whole conundrum. Diablo and Bragg have correctable shortcomings, whereas Lucas and Traylor have simply reached who and what they are as players and there is little that can be changed or adjusted. Jamari Traylor’s PER is…pretty much the same. Bad. Did you notice that Lon Kruger did not bother guarding Lucas at all? Just left him alone. At the top of the key, near the free throw line, in the post. Anywhere. Flat out ignored him. That is my concern. Lon Kruger simply addressed what we all know to be true: Landen Lucas is not a threat. He knows he doesn’t have anything close to a post move, so we have essentially conceded our offense to playing 4 on 5. This may be crass, and again, I have no problem with either of these two young men as students, people, or representatives of this university, but they are simply not good. IF they were suddenly erased from this team’s lineup I DO NOT for a second think it changes the trajectory of this team, our chances of winning the Big 12, a national title, games against top-tier competition, etc. In my opinion, it just simply would have no effect, other than positives, on this team.

As many of you are well-read basketball fans, I’m sure many of you are aware who Diamond Stone is. If not, he’s the 5-star center for Maryland. He, like most freshman, went through some growing pains up to this point. But Mark Turgeon hung with the young man despite his shortcomings. In a short while, Diamond Stone has become a pretty competent post player, putting up 39 points for No. 4 Maryland to erase a 10-point deficit. Can you imagine if we get a fraction of that production from Diallo or Bragg (keep in mind I said a fraction). I’m not lobbying for Bragg or Diallo to play 35 minutes a game, but having them ready by March makes us scary. Landen and Jamari’s ceilings have simply been met. Landen’s 8 rebounds and 5 points in 25 minutes is nice, but does little to impact or improve our chances of winning in March and April, and they are hardly a safety net (I have nightmares of double teams swarming LL and knocking the ball out of his sensitive hands). This is my concern. I want KU to win just as badly as anyone else on this sight, and I hope I’m wrong, but quite frankly the truth seems glaringly obvious to me and I fear, unlike other examples throughout history, we have ample alternatives the sad outcome that we may be sewing for ourselves.

All I ask of the old school fan base is to disenthrall yourselves with the idea that Bill Self cannot be wrong. He has been. Several times. Our season has ended in the past because he has been wrong. HE HAS ADMITTED AS SUCH. You are not being misled. These are not lies. It has happened.

I would have delved further into statistics and things of that nature, but it is my birthday, and I am going out to dinner with a very pretty young lady. Happy New Year to my fellow Jayhawks, and as always, RCJH.

Was the detrimental conduct him being the best 3-point shooter on our team?

I think this is kind of a wild take. We are a year and a half removed from a bunch of kids (that were 3 and 4 star recruits) from the KC area winning a national championship at KU! Two of them are starters on this years team! I’m also pretty sure that Ochai, McCormack, and Jalen Wilson all graduated. Dajuan Harris and KJ Adams will graduate, and if Christian Braun hasn’t already, he will. I hear ya on the transfer stuff…but Hunter Dickinson is the real deal, and seems to have absolutely embraced KU. Did you hear his interview after the Kentucky game? He was rattling off KU history like he grew up in Lawrence. Did you hear Kevin McCullar say he wishes he would’ve played his entire career at KU? I’m thankful that this new era allowed for guys like that to come to KU.

I think you gotta evolve with the times. I understand the frustration with NIL and the transfer portal. But all things considered, the transfer portal especially made it possible for someone like McCullar to even come to KU. They also made it possible for someone like Dickinson to come to KU rather than going to the NBA, where his game doesn’t have a home. It might even allow him to come back to KU for another year.

As others have said, you might be describing a utopia that just never existed. But I’ll also say, this year’s starting lineup features two seniors, a super senior, a junior, and a freshman. Four of the 5 will for sure get degrees from KU. I’ve heard people make this argument before and they’re missing that the scenario they’re describing is literally happening right in front of them. 2022 was that utopian vision of college basketball. A veteran team from the area goes on to win it all. That’s great! That’s why we watch sports. Obviously this year isn’t exactly the same, but there are most definitely similarities.

If you want to be mad at someone, be made at guys like Udeh and Ejiofor who left KU prematurely to step into the exact same situations at inferior schools. Let them be a cautionary tale of this new era.

Later edit: I’d also like to add that NIL and the transfer portal allowed KU football to turn around faster than anyone would have ever expected. Lance Leipold and his staff are performing a miracle in the KU football program right now, but they are helped significantly by the flexibility that the transfer portal allows, and the security that NIL offers.

I’ve been wanting to make this post for a long time. This is what I’ve noticed from reading Jason King’s “Beyond the Phog” and the “Top 100 things every KU fan should know before they die.” And now that I have a break in school, here it is.

What’s made KU so special during Bill Self’s tenure has been Coach Self’s remarkable coaching staff, and quite simply, the bond and swagger that has developed amongst his players that carried over for the first 9 seasons or so of his tenure.

We have had so much turnover since the end of the 2013 (and even 2012) season that it’s been hard to get back to where we’ve always been. That hardened spirit you saw from Tyshawn Taylor, Thomas Robinson, Elijah Johnson, and Travis Releford (the list goes on), that was carryover from Sherron Collins, Mario Chalmers, and Darnell Jackson. That 2008 team embodied the KU spirit. Darnell Jackson said before the Final Four game against UNC, “just let your nuts hang.” That, my friends, is swagger. That’s confidence. Tell me last time you saw a KU team in the past two years play that way, especially away from AFH. Because National Championships are not won in AFH, unfortunately, they’re won on neutral floors. That carryover, that swagger, came from the first Self team with Aaron Miles and Keith Langford. They instilled it into the players that would go on to win the national championship, who in turn instilled it in the Morris twins, T-Rob, even Tyrel Reed (I’m thinking the Mizzou game when I say this). With Self’s recruiting tactics in the last couple of seasons, we’ve lost that swagger. We no longer have that continuation of passing this passion from one crop of players to the next. We’re not Kentucky. We never will be, nor would I want us to be. On the front of UK’s jerseys, it might as well say Calipari. They don’t embody anything. It doesn’t mean as much. I don’t discount their success or what Cal has been able to do, it’s commendable. But it’s not us.

Last year made this deficiency prominent to me. After a loss last season, Nadir Tharpe said, “when I got here, there were guys that wouldn’t let us lose. There were guys that would cry in the locker room if we did lose.” He was right. He could’ve pretty much said, Tyshawn and T-Rob explicitly weren’t gonna let us lose, but you get the idea. Naadir Tharpe and Jamari Traylor are the only ones that carry over the longstanding pride in KU. Tharpe is gone (and while some might be fine with that, I’m not one of them), and Jamari Traylor quite simply doesn’t have it. Andrew Wiggins didn’t have it. Joel Embiid didn’t have it. Perry Ellis clearly doesn’t have it. Nobody on this year’s team has it. Losing that attitude has hurt KU significantly. What happened to FOE? Too Strong? Put ya shoes on? It’s gone.

Another thing that has hurt KU significantly, which has been such a strength has been KU’s coaching staff. Losing Danny Manning and Joe Dooley hurt tremendously. But who have been their replacements? Jerrance Howard. A notorious recruiter of the Chicago-area. But that’s it. This move certainly lends itself to Self’s approach to recruiting in the past two years, but that’s it. There’ s very little “Snacks” brings to the table besides recruiting. Danny Manning turned average post players into giants. Into lottery picks. We no longer have that in our arsenal. Danny was arguably the best player KU has ever had. He knew that. The players knew that. That’s part of instilling the KU tradition. And as for Dooley, look at games from 2007, 2008, even 2012. I watched them all summer in between classes. We ran complicated schemes. Changed our offensive sets, created plays for shooters, dare I say, ran zones. As everyone noticed (except for Bill Self) last year, we could not play man-to-man in 2014. We needed to play zone. We did not, and we lost in the second round to a mediocre team. Players’ comments in the past few games about our “mechanic and robotic” scheme, are frightening. If we as fans notice it every game, don’t you think opposing coaches do too? If we continue down this path this year, we will come short of our potential again. I for one see Dooley’s departure as a possible explanation for the logic-defying ignorance we have seen from KU in the past two years.

My problem with Bill Self is his belief that what has worked in the past will continue to work in the future. If ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Pardon the historical reference, but the Japanese did not change their military tactics leading up to the Second World War, because quite simply, they worked in the past. Why bother changing them? The carnage of the Pacific War was the result. When you fail to adapt, you inevitably fail. Without so many of the pieces that have held KU together in the past, and kept KU at a high level, we are treading towards a downward spiral to minimal success. And for some, a Big 12 championship is success. Not to me it isn’t. We can’t win a national championship with the status quo. We have to adapt and change our ways in terms of scheme. I’m all for recruiting players that will be around for more than a year. By all means! But as someone else pointed out, what in the hell is the point in recruiting elite wings if all you want them to do is throw the ball in the post. Hey, B-Star was great at that. Just go recruit 3 of those, a really good center, and a PG and we should be set…right? It’s not going to work out that way. Play to your strengths. Don’t treat them as a burden. Because this is college. Not high school. You choose your players. They’re not handed to you.

This much to me is obvious.

Happy Holidays, everyone!

Hey everyone! Long time no talk.

I think the media that covers this team have their brains pickled by the last 13 years. Either that or they’re just flat out terrible at their jobs.

Going into the first game of the season, it was understandable to be a little cautious about what to expect. I personally found all of those predictions of 2-3 wins to be quite low, but I could at least understand the perspective.

Going into WVU, I could understand expecting a loss. After watching KU take control of that game to win by double digits, albeit due to a pick 6 in OT that was pretty unlikely, those cautious expectations became less understandable.

Going into the game against Houston, I understood thinking it would be difficult to win that game. But here’s where I started to think that there was some abject cognitive dissonance going on in the KU media. To those that expected a 48-31 KU loss I ask this…did you watch Houston at all prior to the game on 9/17? I did. I was at least curious to know what our upcoming competition looked like. Houston mustered about 350 yards of total offense, in a game that went into double overtime mind you, against a Texas Tech team that gained around 500 yards in total offense. TTU’s backup QB threw for over 350 yards alone against Houston. Their backfield also had a respectable day against Houston.

Now, I don’t write for the LJW, or host a radio show on WKLN, but wasn’t TTU one of the games most people circled as a possible win for KU? Houston probably should’ve won that game, to be fair. But I don’t understand how we think that TTU was a possible win but Houston was a certain loss. Is it because it was on the road? Houston averages 25k fans a game. That would be good enough for dead last among P5 schools (that’s lower than KU!). KU players said after the game that it felt like they were playing at home. Chalk me up as genuinely confused why that game was considered an automatic loss.

The same sort of brain dead lazy takes appear to be rearing their ugly heads again for the game against Duke this upcoming Saturday. I can’t tell you how many 31-28, 37-31, 34-31 predictions I’ve heard coming into this game. Just like with Houston, I ask, WHY? Duke is easily the second worst team on KU’s schedule. They have played the third easiest schedule in college football against some truly, truly terrible competition. Temple may be the worst team in all of FBS football, Northwestern might be right there with them, and NC A&T, for as terrible as they are, ran for 217 yards against Duke! That’s over 5 yards a carry! KU on the other hand is averaging 7 yards per carry against much tougher defenses (at least I thought, right?). This is where I think the “JD is due for some regression” talk to be absurd. KU is successful because they don’t need JD to throw the ball 60 times to win. They have a mobile QB (who’s leading the team in rushing, I might add), along with 2 solid RB’s in Hishaw and Devin Neal. When JD has had to throw he’s been incredibly efficient. But I’ll just offer those rushing statistics as a freebee. That should be an obvious one for you guys and I’m not sure you even bothered to look. Oh, also, NC A&T converted 8/14 on third downs. That’s really bad for a Duke defense that I’ve been told is good against a winless opponent…KU is converting on 69 (nice) percent of their third downs.

That’s just one of Duke’s opponent’s too! They easily could’ve lost to Northwestern, or at a minimum gone to OT before Northwestern fumbled the ball at the goal line with an opportunity to tie the game! The same Northwestern team that just lost at home to Southern Illinois, I might add.

To your credit, most of you are picking KU to win against Duke. But even from there, I don’t really understand where the predictions for the rest of the season are coming from. I’ve heard Scott Chasen say, “I have this team finishing the season at 5-7 or 6-6 [after beating Duke 31-28].” Uh….what? You have KU going 1-7 down the stretch? Why? I know the Big 12 is good, it’s one of the reasons why KU has struggled to get the program back on its feet—because the Big 12 is such a bear; there is no Vanderbilt, Boston College, or Colorado to pick up free wins…but come on! Oklahoma is the best team in the Big 12, I think we’d all agree. But after that…? KU has probably looked the second best, and they’ve even played a tougher schedule than OU! I was told that Houston was a really good team that’s gonna win 8-9 games? I also think WVU is a better team than people realize.

The issue here, in my opinion, is this unwillingness to accept that KU is a good football team. I honestly think 8 wins is possible. I have no idea why in the world KU can’t beat Iowa State or TCU. I have no idea why KU can’t beat Texas, K-State, or Oklahoma St. And hey, who knows, maybe KU surprises us like they did last year against Oklahoma and Texas and picks one up on the road that nobody sees coming.

There was an account on Twitter that caught a ton of flack for saying that Matt Tait’s writing about KU football is overly pessimistic and lazy. I not only agree with him, I also think that it applies to the media around KU football broadly. Even some fans! Matt Tait famously said “1 win is more likely than 4, and 2 wins is more likely than 3.” Dear god what a bad take. Basing your entire analysis of this team and this season on the fact that KU has been bad since 2010 is just downright bad. Trust what you see.

I implore KU fans… “dare yourselves to be optimistic. Disenthrall yourselves from the notion that because KU has been bad over the last several years means they are bad now, and bound to return to their losing ways."

I look forward to hearing the talking heads ask next Monday, for the third week in a row, “is it time to take this KU team seriously now?”

KU beats Duke 45-17.

KU’s season point distribution (% of total):

• 3-pointers: 26.9% (ranked 292)
• 2-pointers: 61.0% (ranked 4)
• Free throws: 12.1% (ranked 364 - this is dead last)

Had a friend send this to me and I stared at it for 10 minutes like it was a modern art masterpiece (of terrible). This would have been bad in 1996. We cannot win this way.

@HighEliteMajor I’d just like to add to this. Has anyone listened to Sherron Collin’s interview on the Ain’t No Seats podcast? There’s a part where he talks about what it was like to play with Xavier Henry. Sherron struggled to make it “his” team even though he had clearly earned it: “I didn’t come back to win the Big 12; I came back to win a title. I wanted to be the first player to win 2 in their time at KU.”

Instead, they had to focus on getting Xavier his shots because he had to go the NBA. Because it wasn’t just about Xavier, it was about the direction recruiting was going and Self trying to send a message that, “you can be a OAD and play at Kansas.” There was also Xavier’s dad hanging around the team causing drama. Sherron said once when Xavier had a bad half, his dad chewed his ass in the tunnel. He came into the locker room with tears in his eyes. It all came home to roost against UNI.

That right there? That, my friends, is poison. An absolute cancer. Not saying all OADs bring that sort of drama, but that is the kind of thing you want to avoid altogether.

You think Devonte or Frank Mason’s parents pulled some shit like that? No, they were just happy to be there. THAT is what KU needs to go back to.

@BigBad I don’t know, man. To say that outlook is overly pessimistic is probably putting it mildly.

I honestly think this is maybe the most excited I’ve ever been about KU sports. Have you seen what KU’s volleyball team, women’s basketball, and KU baseball is doing? Not to mention the football program. How can you not absolutely love a guy like Devin Neal? Or Jason Bean? Guys that absolutely love KU. Devin Neal could easily make millions of dollars next year, but I will flat out bet you that he chooses to come back to KU because of how important he is to their success next season–when he will almost certainly become KU’s all time leading rusher.

I think a lot of that comes back to our athletic director, who may already be the best AD we’ve had in my lifetime. Travis Goff is from Kansas, a diehard KU fan, and is working on righting some of the wrongs of the past. Again, you are describing the passing of a bygone era that in a lot of ways is literally happening right in front of you.

If you want to be mad about these issues to the point where you walk away, that’s your prerogative. But you’ll be missing out. RCJH.

Ugh. I’ll never understand this question. You’d take a FF with a shot at the national title with any team. It doesn’t matter who it is. That’s why we play! This is Kansas! We play to win it all. I’ll never understand how this isn’t a no-brainer.

Perhaps the better question is, would you trade the whole streak for, let’s say, 2 more national titles? Sure there are some conference titles sprinkled in there, but certainly not 11 in a row. The answer should be unequivocally ‘yes.’ That makes KU a dynasty. that means 3 national titles in 10 years. THAT is success. THAT is so much more befitting our role in basketball history. Disenthrall yourself with the title streak. They’re all well and good, but if you want to talk about Self’s legacy, going 15-1 in-conference all so you can get run out of they gym by Northern Iowa as the number 1 overall seed is not flattering. Come on, guys.

This is not a new thing.

I’m sure there are plenty of examples of this, but two pretty dramatic instances that I can remember were in 2015 and in 2016.

The first was when we were coming off of years of having a dominant big man (Kaun, Jackson, Aldrich, Withey, T-Rob, Embiid), and in 2015 we just didn’t. We had a freshman who was showing immense promise and Self just wouldn’t give him a chance. He was FIXATED on playing Jamari Traylor and Landen Lucas over Cliff Alexander. Looking back at some of the box scores, it wasn’t just the eye test, Cliff was phenomenal. We would kill for that kind of production this season. Self stayed with Lucas and Traylor. Neither of which could score. Neither of which were greater rebounders. But they were in his circle of trust.

Come to think of it, Self did the same thing in 2017 with Cheik Diallo. He hardly ever played more than a few minutes here and there, while Landen Lucas got absolutely bodied by Jordan Bell from Oregon in the Elite 8. Bell had 8 blocks and 13 rebounds over Lucas in that game. It reminded me of Brady Morningstar in the Elite 8 against VCU (hey, another example!). Brady looked like a middle school boy playing amongst men. He didn’t belong on the same court.

The other major example I can think was the 2016 season. That was the year where yet again, we didn’t have a dominant post presence. But we did have some phenomenal shooters. THAT was our strength. But that went against Self’s basketball philosophy. This was the season where Self dropped his now infamous “fool’s gold” line about three pointers. It was maddening. Landen Lucas and Jamari Traylor were yet again our primary 5 men. They were the same players as the year before. I remember we lost at Iowa State and the fanbase was starting to get pissed about Self’s constant criticism of our three point shots. We kept trying to force it inside to a talentless big man. It was like banging your head against a brick wall. And yet, once Self dropped the criticism. Stopped benching guys for shooting threes…guess what? We won 17 games in a row, falling short to a great Villanova team that went on to win the title (I’m stilled pissed they were the two seed in our bracket that year–they were 33-5 for god’s sake…the same record as us!).

My point is, this is nothing new. Self has always been this way. I saw someone say this sort of attitude has probably cost KU a couple more titles. Holding more talented players back because of some BS circle of trust philosophy that plays guys like Brady Morningstar over guys like Elijah Johnson. Landen Lucas over Cheik Diallo. Jamari Traylor over Cliff Alexander. This shortcoming is becoming a flashing red light in this current era. It was one thing when Self was doing this knowing that he had another year or 2 to build some of these guys up. Not only can Self not break a guy down in their first year to build them back up in their second, third, or fourth year for fear that they might transfer, but he sure as hell can’t do it over the course of 6-8 months with a transfer rental.

I love Bill Self. There will certainly be a statue of him in front of the Fieldhouse one day. But I’m starting to get very worried that he can’t be successful in this current era. I hope I’m wrong. Keep in mind, that Dajuan and KJ are holdovers from seasons where the NCAA investigation greatly impacted recruiting. Maybe next year is the beginning of a new era in KU basketball. But the memories of the 2011, 2015, 2017 seasons loom large. Those were good KU teams whose ceilings were lowered dramatically by Self’s stubbornness. With KJ out the next two games, we’ll see if this team can get up off the mat, and if Self can adapt to the situation.

I hope this was as therapeutic for you guys reading this as it was for me writing it!

I feel like we’re all more or less saying the same thing regarding the rotation when KJ comes back. One of the most frustrating things about the way we lost yesterday is that we got some big answers with Griffen and Bidunga, and honestly Storr too…but in a bad way. If you could guarantee me that KJ will not average more than 15 minutes from here on out, I would take it in a heart beat. If Storr is averaging 17 minutes, give 10 of those to Griffen. Obviously adjust situationally–no problem with riding the hot hand. But we saw where our offensive bread is buttered yesterday. Of course, the question is whether or not Self has seen what the rest of us had.

I honestly think Self got too much blame for how things transpired yesterday. He had a game plan yesterday, and it worked! KU led for 90 percent of the game. We were the better the team. Regarding free throws, it’s not like they don’t practice them. Your veteran leaders have to make those. They know that. Same thing with inbounding the ball. These are guys who have been playing at this level for 5-6 years. That stuff cannot happen.

HOWEVER, in the press conference after the debacle when Self said we were hurt by KJ not being out there I almost threw my computer. I’m worried that is a sign of what he plans on doing: bring KJ back and pretend his absence has been the problem.

Crazy to think how different this season would be if we could’ve avoided an epic collapse or two

@Blown There’s something going on here… I think you might want to reconsider your weekend plans. Just kidding…but seriously

@KUinLA I think you make an interesting point. When you see our big guys (like you said) about eight feet out, they don’t even look like they’re considering putting up a shot. It makes us extremely predictable and easy to defend. From about 2007-2011, I had no concern that we could hit a mid-range shot. No concern that Arthur, Wright, the Morii, etc. could all hit that shot. Is it a matter of not having the talent or not cultivating it?

I’m not disagreeing with people who say that Self wants to stick with the inside game, that much is obvious, but we haven’t always been this way, have we? Remember the Big 12 Championship against Texas in 2008? That was a three-point shoot out. That’s all we did. What changed? Not that we relied on it by any means in the NC run in 2008, but we put up a lot of three pointers (if I wasn’t in class, I’d look up the numbers) that season. Both seasons of our Final Four runs we were able to shoot the ball well. The last two seasons it’s looked like we aren’t even entertaining the thought. What has happened? Someone said the other day that losing Dooley may have set us back a lot more than people realize. I think they’re right. Of course the same can be said for Danny. Now Bill is all by himself and we continually see this bash your head against the wall result of just continuing to pound it inside for no reason. I liked Jay Bilas analogy the other night: “Like trying to play frisbee golf in the Redwood Forrest.”

So I ask, what has changed? We haven’t always been this way, have we? Is Self kind of being exposed as ignorantly stubborn without two great assistant coaches? I don’t want to get crucified for questioning the 82% win percentage, I’m just asking.

@KansasComet I’m starting to think some people have amnesia about Tharpe. The bad performances stick out and the good ones are easily forgotten. I’m not saying anything more than he was better last year than a lot of people may realize. He had some poor performances, sure. There were issues, and he was an awful defender. But just take a look at some of his numbers last year in the Big 12.

@ OU: 17 pts., 3 : 3 (A : TO), 2-3 from 3pt. @ ISU: 23 pts., 4 : 4, 3-4 from 3pt OSU: 21 pts., 6 : 6, 3-4 from 3pt ISU: 12 pts., 12 : 1, 2-5 from 3pt @ Baylor: 22pts., 2 : 0, 4-6 from 3pt @ KSU 13 pts, 10 : 3, 1-5 from 3pt OU: 19 pts., 5 : 1, 1-1 from 3pt (6-7 from field) TTU: 16 pts., 3 : 1, 3-6 from 3 pt.

I know I’m gonna get killed for this. But all I’m saying is, to remember Tharpe as some scrub player who was regularly outplayed by his backups is factually incorrect. It’s like KU fans think Conner Frankamp was the next Oscar Robinson because of the tournament last year. And not only that, but beating up on a kid after he’s gone is the antithesis of what KU fans are all about.

I’m sorry, but I liked Tharpe. One of my favorite KU memories is in 2013 when he made the game winning shot, down by one in Stillwater, in double over time and collapsed into Self’s arms on the sideline, absolutely exhausted, as the buzzer sounded and the Big 12 was once again ours for the taking. Don’t be so quick to forget what players did for this program because of a mistake.

Great comments by everyone, and I agree with pretty much all of it. At some point during the game someone on twitter asked, “why won’t Self play Cliff?” To which someone else responded “Oh today? Probably because he has three fouls in 8 minutes.” That pretty much sums it up. Cliff has turned into quite the project it seems. His ability to give up and-ones is pretty bad.

But all that being said, there was a point in the game when I thought, “wow, this could turn out really badly for Cliff.” What I meant by that is, KU is the leader for Thon Maker and Chiek Diello in the recruiting game, and in my opinion, Maker would make this team a national championship favorite. And since Self obviously won’t adjust his system, Maker would be an Embiid-like get. Also with Bragg coming in next year, Cliff may get lost in the shuffle. It’s a good problem to have for us as fans, but Cliff’s lack of development, particularly of basketball acumen, seems to be one of most troubling things. He obviously never learned much about the system and strategy of the game of basketball in high school. Cliff is clearly, clearly not ready for the NBA, but with potentially 3 top recruits coming in to play his position, where does that really leave us with Cliff?

I think the sad thing about Cliff is that someone ever projected him as a lottery pick. He’s a 6-8 forward who is really going to have to find his niche in the NBA. It seems unlikely at this point. But it creates a lot of problems for everyone.

At least in the tournament, the NCAA should take reviews out of the officials’ hands. I agree with what some were saying during the NC: “If you review it and still can’t get it right, what good is it?” Do what the NHL does (and this is something I think the NHL has done a marvelous job with). When there’s a review, the officials have nothing to do with it. They get a phone call from the league office, and guys in a settled and quiet room get to review the play and make the right call. For officials to make mistakes and then repeat that mistake by saying “We can’t see anything” when it’s an obvious call is an egregious error.

I think officiating these past two years in college basketball has been some of the worst I’ve ever seen. What is a block/charge anymore? Is it just open to interpretation? Is traveling against the rules anymore or can players take 5 steps on their way to a layup? Something’s gotta change because these officials–and it was painfully obvious in the Final Four–are an absolute joke.

@HighEliteMajor You said: “One other thing, Self said after the Chaminade game that he would have rather won 60-50, than to give up all those points. That analysis, though, completely ignores how well we did “per possession” – there were a lot of possessions, and we blew them out. Chaminade was at like .8 per possession. The number of points given up, really, is meaningless.”

That is one of the most frustrating things about Bill Self forever discounting a good offensive performance. When we score as many points as we did against Chaminade, the opposing team’s possessions would likely double or triple. As you say, their point total, then, becomes absolutely meaningless. Because if he were to look at it from the perspective of a freshman taking an elementary statistics course, with those ppp figures, they would score far less for any given range of possessions. So really, he likely discounted a sold defensive effort by looking at the point total, which is simply ignorant. Look, I know the guy is infallible in the eyes of so many KU fans, but overlooking that simple concept is laughably ignorant. We’re not going to beat teams 120-40, that’s just not going to happen. But smashing teams the way we did in Hawaii is something to be proud of, and it’s something to embrace. What’s even worse is how transparent Bill Self comes across in his postgame interviews. Those games in Hawaii, where he bemoaned our defensive effort by judging them in ways that my mom would are disconcerting to say the least. Yet, he’s fine with the fact that we struggled mightily to knock off 2-5 Harvard? Because it was close? This team is a Ferrari. It should be driven like one.

I can’t believe some of the hysteria about this loss. I get pissed when KU loses. Punching the couch; walking away from the TV so I don’t have to see the loss, etc. They lost that game yesterday and I didn’t even react.

Say it with me now: “The Big 12 Tournament means nothing.” This, I would argue is a good thing. You mean to tell me you’d rather have KU get in a shootout tonight with Iowa State who is red hot, then likely play West Virginia who KU had to pull a draining miracle OT comeback in AFH to win…rather than having 8 days of rest?

People keep saying things like “I think they they needed to get refocused and shown that they’re not invincible.” I don’t entirely disagree. But I think what is more true than that…KU doesn’t lose that game without Josh Jackson. So, it’s not as if that game exposed KU or something. Teams are different when their most talented player doesn’t play. Self was burning timeouts because guys like Frank and Landen were sucking wind yesterday. I’ve never seen that before. Then Devonte goes back to the locker room with a turned ankle? Please, KU fans, put your pride aside, focus on the prize (which, let’s be clear is the National Championship), take off your crimson and blue glasses and look at this rationally. If KU loses Landen Lucas, our season is over. If KU loses Frank Mason, our season is over. If KU loses Josh Jackson, our season is over. If KU loses Svi, Graham, or Vick, Our starting backcourt is playing all 40 minutes with each player staving off foul trouble, and our season is over. Risking our guys in these games that are about as valuable as a preseason game at this point is just too much.

I’m sorry. I know it’s counterintuitive, but I thought this was a good thing. I positively hate the Big 12 tournament. And throwing the consolation scraps to the little brother teams of the Big 12 is perfectly fine with me.

Rest up. Focus. And get ready for the most exciting ride of the year.

I didn’t watch the game. Been dealing with people trying to purge the federal workforce. Looks like it was a real defensive slugfest…

@Kcmatt7 I genuinely don’t think anyone is putting unfair expectations on this team. I certainly don’t think the staff is. And the best thing about this team is, and I think they would tell you, “YES. We go into every game expecting to be in a position to win.”

Some KU fans act like by being hopeful we’re dragging the team down. I would argue the exact opposite is true. Subdued expectations lead to apathy. I can tell you from everything I’ve read and heard (and I consume A LOT of KU football content), this team does not feel that way and neither should we.

Hey, maybe we do go 3-6 in conference. Maybe we go 6-3. Let’s stop trying to put a number on it and enjoy the ride. KU IS GOOD.

I’ve been resisting joining this site, but after this loss (and the fact that I’m just not willing to get a facebook page) I had to give in.

My take is that Self finally gave Greene a chance. Out of necessity more than anything, but it made me think. I’m not saying that Selden isn’t a great player or going to be a great player as the season progresses, but right now Greene seems to be the better option. He’s a pure shooter, he’s about the same size as Selden, and he simply has more to offer. I haven’t seen anything spectacular from Selden defensively, and at the rate we’re going I don’t think it hurts to play Greene over him.

Secondly, I’m flat out done with Tarick Black. He’s just awful. I will take Embiid starting over him, and I’d take it a step further by saying that Traylor should be the first off the bench, and honestly I like what I’ve seen from Lucas enough that I’d prefer seeing him over Black.

Third, I love Frank Mason, don’t get me wrong. But he’s still a freshman. What he has that Tharpe lacks is aggressiveness. But with him, the line between aggressiveness and stupidity is pretty thin. Going at three defenders by yourself is aggressive, but stupid. Tharpe needs to be agressive, not to mention the upperclassman that he is, and take charge.

Other than that, this was a tough loss. And for the love of everything holy, can we please, please play a home game. To say this team’s confidence has taken a hit is an understatement. I understand the logic behind it, and I may be singing a different tune in April, but right now it’s painfully obvious that this hard of a schedule, and being away from the best basketball arena on the planet is really hurting this young team.

I’ll await Dr. HEM’s grading of my analysis…

@icthawkfan316 Great post!

I just need to share this with my fellow KU fans. I moved from Topeka to San Antonio when I was a bout 11 years old. Once at school, when I was out on the playground playing ball with some kids, we got into an argument about something or another. A kid said to me, “you’re from Kansas, what do you know about basketball???”

I have hated San Antonio Spurs fans ever since.

@icthawkfan316 Saw your comment about Jamari and scoffed. Then looked at the box score and couldn’t stop myself from saying, “Really???”

Jamari scored 13 points FG: 4-8 FT: 5-5 REB: 5

To go with 2 steals and 1 block in 26 minutes. Just like you said, welcome back to the season, Good Mari! That’s a man’s game.

…I’d also like to pile onto the ‘Lucas played terrible and shouldn’t start’ discussion.

That is all.

@DoubleDD Probably the haircut.

@JayHawkFanToo Please don’t compare a guy that’s been playing in the NBA for over a decade to Jamari Traylor. I understand your point. But Kirk Heinrich can produce, and produce well! Forget intangibles, what Heinrich has are tangibles.

Giving Self a pass on this sort of thing on the basis of speculation is just not good enough. This isn’t the first time this has happened. Jamari Traylor is not a better option. Period. Like others have said, you mean to tell me that you haven’t seen Traylor get blown by on defense? Mess up a play? Bounce pass to a double-teamed man?? I can’t stand hearing about Self’s resume in this sort of situation. I know he’s a great coach. I’d argue that he’s the best in the game. But as we’ve seen this year, Self is being forced into a position where he has a team that doesn’t fit his traditional mold and he’s been dragged absolutely kicking and screaming like a three year old into adjusting it. It’s like trying to convince a girl she’s wrong. Traylor shouldn’t have been in the game over anyone with under 3 minutes left. I would’ve taken anyone over Traylor at that point. People get so wrapped in this “energy” nonsense that they seem to forget that he is not that great of a technical basketball player; he’s only been playing organized ball for a few years. I don’t want to be rude about this, but I can’t stand the Bill Self cheerleader fans that see nothing wrong with the decisions that are made in games (Trey Burke says hi) because he’s Bill Self.

The million dollar question now becomes, will Cliff start over Traylor against Tech? How bout Baylor? How bout at any point in the season?

Forget that. I can deal with a close missed call compared to Staten’s blatant travel. Now we get to listen to how great this kid is all day even though it was a clear violation. He didn’t dribble once from the three point line to the rim. Did the refs seriously buy that?

THIS PLAY BY STANTEN is a flat out embarrassment. Seriously, watch this video.

I was absolutely disgusted with last night’s game. Still pissed off. KU did not play well. There’s no denying that. But for four points (and I think there was another close shot clock violation call) to be just gift wrapped to West Virginia is criminal. Hard to tell which loss pisses me off more, OKST, or WV. And for God’s sake, Perry, dunk the ball! How do you miss that?

This isn’t about the Big 12. This is about seeding. About getting a path to the title. We’re starting to slip from the 2-seed line despite playing the toughest schedule and playing in the toughest conference. This season is infuriating.

I’m in desperate need for someone to make me feel better '(

I keep amending my post. I’m trying like hell to pay attention in this class, but I’m so GD pissed off. This game reminded of the Michigan game from a 2013. We were clearly the better team and gave one away in such a critical situation. Again, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE BIG 12. This is about the tournament. This is about seeding. And giving away wins like last night on the road are a cancer. When Frank was trapped on our last possession, I was screaming at the TV to call a timeout. Thank god we did, but what the hell was with the play call. Just letting Frank run at the rim. I guess it’s not the worst, but you mean to tell me we couldn’t draw up a shot for pretty much anyone on our team (with the way we’re shooting) when the shot clock is at 1 second? That way we either get points, create a long rebound and time keeps running. Instead, we ran at the rack, created a short rebounding situation for a team that had dominated us on the glass all night, the ball goes out of bounds, and WV has an eternity to drive (travel) and score. I think we can do better than that. JMO. And of course this is all with the benefit of hindsight.

@nuleafjhawk I honestly think the conference streak has been an enormous burden on us. We’re not looking to the start of the tournament (like Nova, UK, Wisconsin, and Duke all are), we’re looking at the game against Oklahoma, payback against WV and then the conference tournament. By the time the tournament rolls around, we seem mentally and physically spent. The regular season is preparation for the big dance. I think we’ve lost sight of what’s important. Conference titles don’t measure greatness, National Championships do.

Honestly, losing it could be a good thing. I think we’ve lost sight of what makes us Kansas. It feels good just thinking it. It’s time to let go.

I’ll be honest, I haven’t watched too many Arizona games, and I’m still sour about losing out on this recruiting battle, but I’m at a loss as to why Tarzcewski chose Arizona over KU. He looked about as polished as Thomas Robinson during his sophomore season. He’s not a vital piece of their formula. He just stands around watching guards drive to the hoop or shoot threes and fights for rebounds. The guy was a top ten, five-star recruit and he’s nowhere to be found on NBA draft boards. How in the world do big men choose Arizona? Does Sean Miller have a single big guy he can point to and say, “I did that”? It’s baffling.

Anyways, yes, congrats @wissoxfan83. I pray that the Badgers can defeat college basketball’s equivalent to Nazi Germany next weekend. Was with someone rooting for UK tonight… It was a long night to say the least. I think UW stacks up really nice against UK. Hopefully they come out ready to play instead of starting the first half slowly, because if they let UK build up any sort of lead, I’m not sure they’ll get it done. Good luck, buddy!

@HighEliteMajor HEM, I pretty much always agree with you. However…

Personally, I thought it was funny too. You’re absolutely right. Because it is pretty funny. That being said, I’m a 20-something college student. This wasn’t in a Manhattan bar where last call is (literally) signaled by chanting “f*ck KU.” This was out in the open for everyone to see, and now, it’s national news. This is not really applicable to college humor. I also really don’t understand the “everyone is so PC these days” argument. When in the expansive history of college sports (or anything really) would this ever have been appropriate? Seriously?

Since leaving Kansas I’m forever confronted by the image problem the state suffers from–for god’s sake, even in Japan I run into it–and stuff like this doesn’t help. And with K-State, it wouldn’t be a problem if it wasn’t a trend. But it is, and that’s the problem. I think taking the “get over it” attitude is the same stupid crap we always have to hear from K-Staters:

“The kid barely bumped Jamari.” “So what if our fans were putting their middle fingers in Wayne Selden’s face after the game. Did you see what Kurtis Townsend did??” “Chanting f*ck KU is a tradition at K-State (which was made worse by the KSU student newspapers saying as such!)” And the latest, “you can hardly see a dick and balls. I think you just have a dirty mind.” The list goes on and on. How about the picture in K-State’s heritage center with some toothless hillbilly wearing a hat that says “beat the gayhawks”?

It’s beyond ridiculous. AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF, you have a state legislator going on twitter and saying, “This. This is offensive. A band formation is not offensive. This is offensive. Also KU blows. #emaw”

Ya, I’m sick and tired of this crap. Give K-State a chance to embarrass and humiliate themselves and they won’t disappoint you. I revel in the negative attention that is being piled on them right now, and I don’t feel bad about that one bit.

One more emendation… I get so much joy from K-State fans saying things like, “I love Jayhawk tears.” Or, “I’m just gonna sit back and listen to Jayhawk fans complain.”

My response to that is: Nope. This is your deal. Not ours. OUR school, band, team, administration is silent. As they should be. Because WE are sitting back with popcorn in hand watching you clowns embarrass yourselves. Just like @nuleafjhawk said below, pay attention everyone, this is what happens when you do stupid things. Don’t do stupid things.

@JRyman Fair enough. And while it’s painful to watch Landen “mud walker” Lucas play over half the game, Self’s comments about defensive effort are what I find the most alarming because they demonstrate that he may not understand a very crucial, and very simple fact about a specific facet of the game, the very foundation that his program is built upon: defense.

As HEM and one other poster pointed out, when opponents are scoring around 0.8 points per possession, THAT IS A GOOD DEFENSIVE GAME. When you give up over a point per possession, as we did against Harvard, you’re playing poor defense. Harvard was playing efficiently, and we let them dictate the pace of the game. The pace and the style THEY wanted to play because it suited their strengths. If they play fast and increase possessions, they turn the ball over a lot, don’t play efficiently and get ran out of the gym.

It’s frustrating to say the least because these things matter. They determine how Self will manage the course and flow of the game. In the case against Harvard he assumed we were playing well in the second half because the overall point total was low. We weren’t. We were playing poorly. Sadly, it was 2 three pointers that bailed us out and extended the lead enough to win the game. Our strength, even in the “in case of emergency” context bailed us out. Make no mistake we would’ve lost that game to a decent team. That’s why this “a win is a win” mentality is alarming. Because it’s a reflection of what Self thinks, and it’s wrong. When the season is on the line in March, that mentality leads to a loss.

And lastly, this idea that Bill Self’s job is to win games? No, that’s the job of coaches at Ohio State, Minnesota, Virginia Tech, Miami, etc… This is Kansas. Make no mistake, Bill Self’s job is to win national championships. To put us in the best position to win a national championship. I have not seen that in 2014, 2015, and those same tendencies are rearing their ugly heads again in the 2016 season. They are becoming a trend, and trends of these kind are scary. I think too many posters are tiptoeing around what we all know to be true. These kinds of problems far too often lead to our downfall in March. You can sit here and tell yourself “a win is a win,” and “it’s not a tournament game. It’s only December.” But we know that to be false. Of course this team will get better. And when we peak, look out. But this happens too often to overlook. These kinds of shortcomings come back to haunt us in March and when we get down 10 to a hot shooting Iona (or somebody) in the second half, puckering up and going with “bad ball” (the most horrendous strategy ever devised) again, leads to a disappointing loss and an early exit from the tournament.

But I cannot emphasize enough, while I’m frustrated about playing time, I’m significantly more frustrated about what Self considers a good game because it appears he simply doesn’t know. And after what I saw last year, ya know, when Self discounted our achievements and discounted how well we were playing because he didn’t like it, I do not want to see Bill Self, again, try to sledgehammer a square peg in a round hole.

This team is national championship-caliber. These kinds of teams don’t come along every year at KU. That is why, I think, the fanbase as a whole is becoming very frustrated with seeing Self pucker up and go against our strengths. Our 2 worst games of this young season were largely influenced by decisions from Self. We couldn’t score against MSU, yet Self stuck with a big in Lucas that has no offensive game because he’s a good 3/4 sealer? Unreal. That made our offense basically play 4 on 5. We let instant offense sit on the bench in Greene, and didn’t even try to utilize our strengths in playing fast and shooting the ball., Yet our best games of the season Self discounts and acts pouty because they are not the quintessential style he likes to play. I’m done with that. That stubborn mentality infuriates me. If it’s not ok for a player, it’s not ok from the coach.

@wissoxfan83 Yes, I would suggest we avoid turning into that (although I think we’re far from it still), because that place has turned into an absolute cesspool.

Wins like these are what makes me think that this team can win a national title.

@Crimsonorblue22 Sure. Dave was an interesting exception, though. He showed some real promise on a bad team in 2021. In 2022 though? He took a step back. His scoring average dipped quite a bit. Let’s not rewrite history, he really struggled.

Now, that being said, I don’t give a crap about the regular season given what he did in the tournament. And I’ll fight anyone who says his number shouldn’t be retired because Ochai won the MOP in the Final 4. Dave McCormack won KU the national championship. In almost every way that changes how he’s remembered. But over the course of the previous 30 games he really struggled.

Bringing up Remy, though…we should hang his picture at the top of this message board on this topic. Do we all have amnesia? Bill Self hated Remy Martin. He refused to play him. That was the case in the exhibition games. Bill Self was forced to play Remy Martin and it resulted in a championship. That wasn’t Bill Self knowing which buttons to press, he had no choice. The guy he was playing 30 mpg at point guard couldn’t score and we needed a spark. Remy carried us through that win over Providence, and there’s a case to be made that Remy was actually the MVP of the national championship.

I don’t know that I’m really trying to make a strong argument for anything. I’m consigned to our fate at this point, but I guess you’re right @approxinfinity that’s probably more or less what I’m getting at. I’ve watched KU long enough at this point to recognize the trends. And this is a fun therapeutic thing to do on Friday night while I watch the Sopranos lol.

@kuballin10 I’m an old head. One of the originals from when there was an initial departure from KUSports.com to this site.

There are a lot of KU players over the years that fall into the category we’ve been talking about (Traylor, Lucas, Morningstar, even Marcus Garrett at times)…but I liked Tyrel Reed. He was a Kansas guy that was a 41 percent 3 point shooter. What I wouldn’t give for anyone on our team to shoot that well.

@FarmerJayhawk Right. Arkansas had 21 first downs, but was 2/13 on third downs. BYU’s longest throw from scrimmage was a trick play on a throw from a WR. 45 of BYU’s 77 rushing yards came on one carry (they ran the ball 31 times; if you take out that one long run they ran the ball for 1.06 yards per carry…yikes), Arkansas committed 14 (?!?) penalties for 125 yards…both teams had a return for a TD… I mean, the game was as weird as it gets, and if Arkansas hadn’t repeatedly shot themselves in the foot with penalties (and their one INT was REAL bad) they would’ve won by 2 scores. I wouldn’t let the Arkansas outcome scare you. If anything, I think it says more about Arkansas than BYU.

I think this game is similar to the one against Duke last year. BYU will hang around, but the better team will be clear.

I’m looking at the polls that just came out…

I expected KU to fall to about 18, but I’m struggling to understand the logic behind the top 10.

Louisville has played one top 25 team, at home, and they lost! Yet they’re no. 7. Ohio State’s best win was against a 6-4 Marquette team, and have played nothing but mediocre to bad teams, whom they’ve struggled with. I live in Columbus and their schedule is a joke. Oklahoma St. has also played one top 25 team…at home, who they beat and then turned around and got beat on a neutral floor in a game that they trailed the entire time. Michigan St. has also played one top 25 team on a neutral floor, which they won, but have since struggled with bad teams.

Say what you want about Duke, they’ve played a tough schedule.

These polls are illogical.

While I guess this whole “let’s put politics on a sports site” idea was done with good intentions, I have to say this idea is a cancer on an otherwise good forum. To say the least that site is laughably untrustworthy. Please seek new, and better, information.

My thoughts…

I think as KU fans, we’re spoiled. Our team plays in one of the best venues in all of sports. AFH is voted the loudest and most intimidating arena to play in every year. KU fans act as if it is impossible for an opponent to come in and beat us. We expect teams to come in, kiss the imperial seal and take their beating. A team like SDSU isn’t going to take that. They’re a very well-coached, fundamentally sound, and veteran team. To win at AFH is exactly what they need to show they’re a contender (if SDSU was any other team they would be in the top 5 going into this game, just sayin). The venue means nothing if you can’t rebound, can’t make free throws, and continuously settle for difficult jump shots. That much was clear last night.

Second, Tharpe’s comments after the game were extremely telling. "On Monday, I’m going to ask the guys, ‘How much do we really care about what’s on the front of our jersey? How much do we care about winning (for Kansas)?’…I’ve been here a long time. Some of the guys ahead of me (on depth chart his first two years at KU) … tears came down dudes’ eyes when we lost.” You better believe it Naadir. Guys like Tyshawn, T-Rob, Releford, B-Mac, EJ, etc. were not going to let us lose. They had something this team is completely void of…HEART. They had a competitive edge. Guys like Wiggins don’t know what it means to play for a program like KU, and they don’t care because they’re gone in a few months. Maybe guys like Selden and Embiid may someday get it, but surely not right now. It’s so sad to watch something we all hold in such high regard neglected. What I saw last night was on par with what I see from my 4 year old niece at her soccer games. Following mistakes, heads down, energy deflated, DEFEAT. It was all the more infuriating watching Jamari do it as the clock ticked down with 1:45 to go and us still down by 4. This is the problem with having a team like this one. Perry and Naadir are our veterans, but they’re not seniors, and quite frankly it’s just not enough.

I know it’s blasphemy to say something like this, but at this point, Coach Self is stubbornly stupid. Stupidity is the only way I can assess this following portion. Continuing to ignore our shooting deficiencies is about as stupid as it gets. Broadcasters keep saying we lack outside shooting. They just don’t realize our three best shooters don’t get any playing time. Selden continues to get playing time over Greene, White and Frankamp. Why? I’m sorry, but he’s not Releford, so please don’t give me the defense excuse. Greene makes mistakes? Ya, so does our entire team. The tradeoff in playing Selden over any of those three is just not good enough to continue doing so. Self is a big fan of asking reporters to look up stats in the history of AFH… I got one for ya Billy, yesterday was the worst shooting percentage for a KU team since they started keeping the freaking stat! How about that!?

If Self continues to make this idiotic decision to stick with Selden over any of our shooters, not only will it cost us a chance at the national title, it will cost us a tenth straight Big 12 title, and if you want my honest opinion, possibly a trip to the tournament. Like the zone defense that led to some of our other losses, SDSU just gave everyone a blueprint for how to beat us. We had no answer for them double-teaming Embiid in the post. None. And since we can’t hit shots, SDSU was perfectly fine with letting us continue to throw up jump shots.

This team thinks our Non-con was bad, just wait. Right now, there are probably four road games that seem un-winnable. Ames, Stillwater, Waco, and Manhattan. And I’m tempted to throw Austin in there right now. Those teams are playing with confidence, while ours has no fight and zero heart. And how can you tell me that teams have no chance of winning in the Fieldhouse right now? It can be done. We have many deficiencies, and opposing teams are showing everyone in the Big 12 how to beat us.

And to make that debacle so much worse, was having to listen to that weaselly prick Doug “credit card scam” Gottlieb for two and a half hours. It was enough to put the TV on mute.

At this point, things don’t look good. The sky may not be falling, but it’s looking pretty shaky right now.

With every loss that Oklahoma State accumulates, Travis Ford’s seat is getting hotter and hotter. With the amount of talent that he has on that team, it is inexcusable to have had such an atrocious season. This is compounding the fact that OSU hasn’t made it past the first weekend of the tournament since 2005. Marcus Smart, Lebryan Nash, and Markel Brown all decided to come back for another season when each of them could have easily jumped to the NBA all to compete for a championship. But as of right now, they may not even get the chance to be in the field.

Marcus Smart has imploded on himself, showing immaturity on several occasions this season, and showing more importantly that nobody has sought to develop his character, as well as his game.

When Smart shoved the Texas Tech “superfan” during the closing minutes of their loss to another unranked team, many KU fans said, “this would never happen if he played for KU,” and “Self wouldn’t stand for this.” This is probably true. But the simple fact is, Coach Self is in Lawrence, and Marcus Smart is in Stillwater. That right there is the dilemma. If anyone has shown the nation that talent doesn’t win championships without a strong-minded and intelligent coach at the helm, it’s coaches in the Big 12. We all laugh at the Scott Drews, Travis Fords, and Rick…Barneses of the world, but we as KU fans may soon enter another unsure period in our rich basketball history.

With every loss, Travis Ford inches closer and closer to being fired. What happens this time when T. Boone Pickens comes calling for Self? What happens when he offers an astronomical figure of say $8 million/year? Can Self turn it down? I would like to think that yes, he can and will. Because I don’t think this is all about money. I think KU would be put in a position where they’d have to match, or at least come close to it. Even then, there are the intangibles that KU offers, that OSU does not. Let’s take simple fan attendance for example (of course there is more).

But the question remains “what if?” As KU fans, we’ been burned before (which makes me think. I’ve been reading “100 things KU fans should know before they die,” why didn’t KU make a serious play at Dean Smith in the 1970s or late 1960s? But I digress). Coaches leaving for their alma mater is of course the exception, not the rule. But KU b-ball could be facing another coaching crossroads in the near future.

Thoughts?

@KUSTEVE Hm. Can’t believe more people haven’t commented on your post. Seems like a crowd that waits to speak rather than listening. Anyways…

Nail, meet hammer. You nailed it, buddy. For everyone being so terrified of UNM, a team that we beat by 20 when we didn’t even play very well, I’m shocked to see such negativity. Don’t forget that UNM has played in a very weak conference with their toughest opponent (SDSU) being one that is offensively inept. There is absolutely no reason to be so pessimistic. There will definitely be a pro-KU crowd in STL, and I think we should win by double digits. I can’t help but think we got a pretty favorable bracket.

You also were dead on about Syracuse. Don’t get me wrong, I’m personally pretty scared of Syracuse as they seem to have our number, but come on. You’re right, this is a team that lost to a Boston College team that had 6 wins at the time…in mid-February…and the game was at Syracuse…then they turned around and lost to Georgia Tech at home. Face it, this is a year of teams that have gotten fat on weak schedules (for god’s sake WSU’s non-conference schedule was tougher than Syracuse).

The fact is UF and Syracuse may not be waiting for us in the Sweet 16 or E8. Florida is playing with a lot of pressure to win it all, and haven’t lost a game in months. As KU fans, we should all know how bad that really is. I’m not saying UF can’t do it, but I don’t think it’s beyond the bounds of reason to think that they could lose before the E8. As you pointed out, we lost to Florida by 6 on their home floor when we played our worst game of the season.

I can’t say this enough, I’m about as pessimistic as it gets when it comes to KU, but I’m pretty excited about this year’s tourney. Now, I wouldn’t be surprised if we lost in the first or second round, but I don’t think it’s a fore drawn conclusion by any means.

Keep your heads up KU fans!

@drgnslayr I’m with ya buddy. I played I’ve played baseball for 25 years, and I only know how to play it one way. With determination.

I think the kids were just ready to go home for the break. That was a terrible loss to a miserably awful team. That game reminded me of TCU. We weren’t without energy, we were lobotomized, apathetic, whatever you want to call it.

The frustrating thing is that there isn’t much to gripe over from a schematic point of view. What is frustrating is that we seriously struggle make layups. Our bigs can’t score at the rim. Another thing is I saw Wayne commit some of the worst fouls I’ve ever seen. Time running down on the shot clock, Temple throws up a prayer, and Wayne fouls the shooter. Just awful.

I’d like to think it’s because we don’t post grade A troll-feed. Most of the stuff we discuss is deeper than your average “KU is the greatest thing ever and if you have a negative word to say, you’re not a real fan” sort of talk.

@BeddieKU23 Really good post.

Cliff didn’t play because he couldn’t guard the perimeter. Sure. I knew that. But in the second half, I would have been willing to trade defense for offensive production. It’s not like Lucas was doing anything defensively and he’s nothing more than an glorified telephone pole on offense. I can’t really say anything about Cliff that everyone else already hasn’t. Self’s stubbornness is hurting this team’s chances to win games. Enough said.

I will disagree with you on self being out-coached. Self was most definitely not out-coached because that implies that Hoiberg out-coached Self. He did not. ISU didn’t do anything other than what we expected them to do. They ran out in transition and shot the three. We knew they were gonna do that. If Self was out-coached, it was Self out-coaching himself.

I don’t like complaining about officials… But I’ll say this, ISU fans are notorious for crying about officiating. They did the same thing last year in Ames when they shot double the amount of free throws than we did, and they’re a 3-point shooting team. Last night, to not get a free throw for the first 30 minutes of the game was appalling. As you pointed out, the play where Lucas got pulled down from behind and was called for the foul pretty much sums it all up.

You’re right about ISU though. This is their Super Bowl. Biggest game of the year for them. God I hate their fans though. They were booing travel calls for god’s sake! Their stadium just looks like a McDonald’s rally. In the last two minutes, we weren’t gonna get a call. You knew they weren’t gonna call a block on Niang after 2013. It might as well have been written on the officials.

Tough loss. But we can’t let it affect us long, because we have a big game on Monday.

@DCHawker Ya, but I think my biggest problem is that we could’ve gone into halftime with the lead. ISU wasn’t doing anything special. They hurried to inbound the ball and run. That’s something I’d like to see KU do. We should’ve been much better prepared for that, although I don’t know what more you can do besides yell at your team to get back. I would be interested to see what could’ve happened if we had been ahead at half.

@tundrahok I don’t buy that one single bit.

From the article, “Self is right in saying Alexander isn’t perfect. He’s not great scoring with his back to the basket. He sometimes messes up plays. He can get lost defensively. From a big-picture perspective, though, all that shouldn’t matter. KU has been a better team when Alexander is on the court, especially when he is in there alongside Perry Ellis. It’s time for Self to give his freshman big a longer leash — both for his team now and also to help its potential ceiling in postseason play.”

Clearly, the entire point of the article is pondering why has Cliff not played more. In yesterday’s game, “In the first half, Traylor played 13 minutes had four points on 1-for-4 shooting with five rebounds and three turnovers in 13 minutes. Alexander, meanwhile, had eight points on 4-for-4 shooting with four rebounds and one turnover in 12 minutes. Alexander, clearly, was KU’s better player in the first half as the Jayhawks built an 11-point lead. In the second half, Self played Traylor 10 minutes and Alexander four. Traylor also was in during the game’s most important minutes, surrendering a turnover — his sixth of the game — that turned into an Anthony Hickey layup and doubled OSU’s lead from two to four with 2:32 left.”

Jamari’s play cost us dearly; and while I don’t want to throw that loss on him, it’s hard not to put it on Jamari’s for the turnovers, and Self for letting him do so. This is not that hard. You put your best players on the floor. Cliff is young. He needs to play through adversity. I won’t argue that Cliff has had some low points, but I’m also not willing to surrender offensive capability with the game on the line for intermittent “energy” and perpetual turnovers from Jamari Traylor. Like I pointed out yesterday, if having a motor is of such vital importance, what do you call a bounce pass while running the weave? That was hard to watch. Also, you don’t feed the post with a bounce pass from the top of the key.

This whole “energy” thing is the definition of a red herring. I saw Traylor’s hustle plays. I’m aware of what they mean and what they say about Traylor. But they mean very little in the grand scheme of things. They’re important in that instance, but when you look at the stat line from a game (like the one against UT) and Traylor has 2 points and 3 rebounds with 3 turnovers, I just don’t wanna hear it. Those kind of plays are great and characteristic of a six man. That’s what Traylor is. I just can’t help but think of how much better this team would be if Cliff and Traylor’s roles were flipped.

@tundrahok I understand. And it is what it is. This is nothing new, because you’re right. Self does value hustle. But hustle, obviously in this case, does not equal production. And when you’re willing to swallow six bad turnovers for “hustle,” something is critically wrong with your (Self’s) philosophy.

My god Buddy Hield is ugly. And someone desperately needs to tell him to stop the Duke floor slapping crap.

No, we really don’t need that turd.

The OAD era has put us in a vicious cycle where we need to land top ten recruits every year to maintain a level of success. The sad thing is, we haven’t been very successful… I think most would agree, this was kind of a down year.

Self desperately needs to do what he did in 2005: Recruit 3-4 year guys, then repeat. We need to establish a cycle. This is what made KU so successful from 2007-2013. Ya, there were some bad endings in that time, but those teams were flat out good. And they had swagger; they had chemistry.

KU now is soft. Lacks character. They are pussies (I’m sorry, it needed to be said). Frank is the only player that looks tough, plays tough, and has heart. I don’t doubt that the other guys can get there, but boy is it a far cry from the animals that made up KU from about 2007-2011. I wrote a lengthy piece about this several months back. Losing coaches is one thing. It’s out of Self’s control for the most part. Guys like Danny Manning don’t come along every day. But establishing a competent, cyclical system is very much in Self’s control. I don’t want what UK and Duke are doing; I want no part in it. I would take that 2008 or 2012 team over any of their’s. Those were our guys. Those guys on the 2012 team were friends. I saw them in class, hung out with them at the bar, saw them at parties (you get the idea). It was fun! They were KU. They represented us. Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Kelly Oubre don’t mean the same thing to me. But I digress…

This isn’t that hard. Look at Louisville’s recruiting class this year. They have some really, really nice pieces coming in next year and they’re gonna be around for the next 2-3 years. We need that so badly.

@KUinLA You and I are in the exact same boat. I have absolutely zero concern that Self will leave. If you’re an NBA GM looking for a coach that can win you a title at the highest level, look no further than the last two seasons Self has had as proof of why you would not want Self. In the past two seasons, Self has appeared completely oblivious and unimaginative in terms of strategy. He’s failed to take advantage of either his team’s talent or exploiting the other team’s weakness. People are concerned that Self will replace Popovich when he leaves too. I used to be one myself. Anybody ever watch the Spurs here? Seen some of the plays Pop draws up? They’re absolutely brilliant. They’re like a drug for the basketball-lover’s soul. You see anything like that from Self? We run the same play in every single late game situation. When you think about it, what is the success percentage of the chop play? Probably not good. I mean like less than 10% not good.

But I’m with ya. I myself am not as emotionally invested anymore. Whether or not people want to admit it, I saw a lot of the same sentiments after the loss to WSU. People said they just didn’t care as much as they have in years past. It took me weeks to get over losing to Michigan. When KU lost to VCU, I took a walk for the first time in my life after a sporting event I was so upset. This year? I turned the game off at halftime and watched the Trailer Park Boys. Personally, going to another school that I see as being cutting edge (Ohio State) it just makes me mad about KU. When they call me for handouts now, it’s just sad. Just my thoughts.

And finally it ends. Diallo to KU!