Silly Stats Scrutinizing Self

  • I’m trying to make myself completely bonkers so I started looking at some stats comparing Self’s NCAA tournament success(?) with that of his predecessor. There’s no other reason than that I’m totally bored.

    In Roy’s time here, we lost to an 7 seed once, an 8 seed once and a 9 seed once. We lost to a #1 seed 5 times, a 2 seed once, a 3 seed once and a 4 seed three times.

    We went to the Final Four twice, to the Championship game twice. We bowed out in the Elite Eight once, the Sweet Sixteen four times. We stumbled in the second round twice and never once lost an opening game.

    So far, in the BS era (no pun intended), we have lost to a 14 seed once, a 13 seed once, an 11 seed once, a 10 seed once, and a 9 seed once. We have lost to a 4 seed once, a 3 seed once, a 2 seed twice and a 1 seed one time.

    We’ve gone to the Final Four twice, to the Championship game twice. We’ve bowed out in the Elite Eight three times, and the Sweet Sixteen twice. We’ve stumbled in the second round twice and fallen flat on our faces twice in the opening game.

    And - oh yeah, we have that National Championship.

    I’m not implying anything, I just think it’s strange that we’ve lost to so many lower seeded teams in the past 11 years.

  • Another way to think about this is how many champions has each coach lost to? Roy lost to 7 national champions. In addition he lost to 1 national runners up I think this is an important stat. We look back with regret over his losses, but goodness he had a ‘knack’ for lack of a better word, for getting paired against hot teams.

    Self has lost to 1 champion and 3 runners up.

  • I don’t think you can compare results from 15-20 years ago with current results. The difference between a #1 and #10 seed 20 years ago was much larger that it is today. Parity has narrowed the gap between top teams and the rest.

    On a separate note, why continue focusing on the negatives? There are a lot more positives to the KU program and concentrating on the negative only makes you unhappy…and it shows. Enjoy the good aspect of the program and you will be much happier. You should try being a Missouri fan for a couple of days and then you will begin to appreciate how good we have it being KU fans.

  • How will Self handle this?

    Bar Stool Sports - Uncensored pics flying across the internet.

  • This post is deleted!

  • @JayHawkFanToo I don’t know man, losing to a 14, 13, 11, 10, and 9 seed and getting bounced out in your first game is kind of a big deal no matter what the calendar year says.

    I’m focusing on the negatives because those are the things that can and should be fixed.

  • @wrwlumpy

    Question is… did that (or she) “go down” just hours before we played Stanbuick… I mean Stanford?

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  • I think I counted wrongly. Roy lost to NC’s Duke in 91, UNC in 93, Runner up Syracuse in 96, Arizona in 97, Maryland in 02 and (cough, gag, vomit) Sorrycuse in oh forget it. So it’s 5 champions he’s lost to and 1 runner up. Still a lot of hot teams that he lost to in his time here.

  • Or how about this–How many teams that beat Self did NOT win another game in the tournament? Losing to lower seeds who promptly bow out in the next round is a good indication that you’re underperforming in the tournament. That seems like a pretty objective reality. Does anyone here feel like this coach is doing a good job of getting his team prepared to play each game in the tournament?

  • @nuleafjhawk

    You seem to be a religious person, here is some sage advice…

    Serenity Prayer -

    “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

    There is nothing that you and I can do that will change what happens with the KU program. As I said, enjoy what we have and don’t let what you cannot control determine you state of mind. I have put the past season behind, I remember the good things and how some day I will tell my great grand children how I enjoyed watching one or two of the NBA superstars play at KU. I don’t dwell on what I cannot control and don’t let it control my happiness/unhappiness.

    Give it a try; I am confident you will feel better.

  • What is it called? March Maidness, no thats not it. March maternity, no that not it either. March matrimony, no no not it. March madness, yes thats it madness.

    Don’t believe me that it’s true just start reading some of the post in the last 9-10 days on this board alone.

    Pure madness.

  • @JayHawkFanToo - May I use your quote at Al-Anon this Thursday night? It’s amazing, the negative passion and Venom towards the team. Let Go - and this too shall pass.

  • @JRyman tomorrow is Aprils fools day, just saying. Jk!

  • @JayHawkFanToo Thanks for your advice. It seems genuine to me and I appreciate it very much.

    I’m not a negative person - really !! I love KU sports (ok, mostly basketball) and it really hurts me when we lose. And I honestly was just intrigued by the numbers. Why did Williams’ teams fare so much better in the tournament (other than the Championship, which I am NOT downplaying) than Self’s?

    No concerns here. I’ve been a Jayhawk fan for 50 years and will be until the day I die. I do love Self, I just wish we consistently did better in the tournament!

    RCJH !!

  • @wrwlumpy

    You are most welcome although I cannot tale credit for it; I do like it a lot though.

  • @JRyman I thought that “IowaState shows Bill Self what real coach looks like” is a really funny concept, since KU has beaten IowaState 5 out of 6 times in the last 13mos. We havent abused another team in conference that bad in such a short span ever, have we? Honestly, IowaState is a good team, and I have big respect for Hoiberg for crafting that playstyle, so it would be a total slap in Hoiberg’s face for them to not be able to win 1 out of 6 against KU in 13mos, wouldnt it? They definitely were considered a top3 or top4 BigXII team this year. If you call it a best-of 6 or best of 7 type of NBA playoff, KU has really eaten IowaState’s lunch…with 2 totally different sets of starters. I think that says more about Bill Self than anything.

    And to hear Fred Hoiberg gush on and on about Embiid in their press conf in Ames after we beat them…doesnt that speak well for Self’s ability to find such a gem as Jojo? And then realize what he’s got, and bench the senior Tarik Black in favor of the tall slender greenwood, who almost became a go-to guy. Fact is, Embiid masked alot of what was wrong with this inexperienced Jayhawk squad at both ends, exposed once again, as soon as he got hurt. I really like Fred Hoiberg, but his isnt a perfect system either. And they werent the same without Niang, were they. I definitely rooted for them when they were the last Big12 team left, but didnt think they would make the Final Four, especially without Niang.

    The only thing Im willing to concede (maybe) is that Calipari is better with freshmen than Self is…but you cant say Self isnt trying, as we often had 4 frosh out there (+Ellis) this season. But KY struggled even worse than KU did this season, making their tournaround quite remarkable, actually.

    The fact you compared Roy to Self is interesting…but more relevant would be comparing the last 10yrs of Self to the last 10yrs of John Calipari…the 2 winningest college coaches the past 6-7yrs, I’m pretty sure.

  • @ralster what about that first story he put on there about the technipak? Lost me! You are exactly right about KU vs ISU, we lose a close one to them w/out Embiid. That’s its!

  • @ralster what about that first story he put on there about the technipak? Lost me! You are exactly right about KU vs ISU, we lose a close one to them w/out Embiid. That’s its!

    Ummmm, that wasn’t supposed to happen.

    This what I what I wanted, but I must not have cleared out the clipboard after my kids used the computer.

    Was trying to show people that on the outside of KU people have respect for Self even though there are the occasional ones that want him fired out there. Just different points of views besides our own or what we are used to reading.

  • It appears that about every time I open my mouth something stupid comes out. A while back I made the argument that our strength of schedule was part of our undoing. Maybe I was wrong. Again.

    Final Four teams SOS -

    Wisconsin - #2

    Kentucky - #3

    Florida - #11

    UCONN - #30

    I guess I’ll keep my ideas to myself. Probably.

  • @nuleafjhawk

    I don’t know if it was part of our undoing, but it exposed our weakness against some good competition as we lost quite a few of those games. But on the other hand it demonstrated our strength as a team as we won quite a few as well.

  • I guess I’ll keep my ideas to myself. Probably


    We all know this will never happen.[{sarcasm font}]

  • @JRyman LOL - no, you’re right!!

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