I see a lot of people blaming Bill Self for this loss and for not doing this and doing this and being stubborn won’t change his ways, plays the wrong guys, uses guys in the wrong way.
OK who, who is Kansas’ next head coach if Bill Self can’t get it done anymore?
Who is all I want to know that can recruit like Self, win like him and graduate players and be respected like coach Self?
Virgil_Caine last edited by
I’ve never met a KU fan that wishes we had a different coach. Maybe after the consecutive 1st round losses in '05 and '06, but definitely not since then. That fact alone says what a phenomenal coach Bill Self is. BUT, he is flawed like all humans, and his sustained level of success does not put him above criticism.
Most of us come to sites like these to read and write perspectives that you don’t find on KUSports, or ESPN articles, or in other mainstream media. We are fans pontificating about our beloved Jayhawks because 35+ games a year just isn’t enough for us. We nit-pick, and think about things we might do differently, or things Coach Self did or didn’t do that may have yielded better results.
That does not mean that we are ungrateful for the program Coach Self runs, or that we think we could do better, or that we’re not “true fans.” It’s just something we do for our own amusement to enhance our enjoyment of KU hoops. That said, there’s nothing wrong with the folks that only have positive things to say, either.
We’re all different, we have different perspectives, we have different basketball backgrounds, we drink different beer during the games. Our one commonality here is that we all love KU hoops, so why not embrace the different opinions and analyses offered on this site?
I have read threads that said he wasn’t trying to win, or hasn’t tried to win since 08. I have read that he is to stubborn to play other players, that he won’t change his D or his offensive sets late in a game. He doesn’t press enough.
Well thats what has gotten him 10 straight conference titles, an above 75% all time winning percentage.
I understand criticism, but to hindsight his decisions are ridiculous. Like any other coach in the land I am sure when he watched game film he makes notes about himself.
You don’t change your starting lineup at tournament time unless you have an injury. You don’t change your defense and offense at tournament time because it sounds fun. You stick to doing with what you know.
He coached these kids since August, and even last summer. He instilled in them his philosophies, his style of play, what he expects of them. If he changes that on them this late in the season does he really trust them? Or even himself?
Coaches screw up, yes. Players do too, even refs and fans. But to hear all the things I am reading and hearing about how bad a coach he was this year is complete and absolute nonsense.
My thought on Bill Self is that he has proven his system beyond any doubt. I am a total believer in his system, especially over Roy’s, as we got to experience both at KU…and this season’s no-D, all offense squad was VERY reminiscent of a Roy team: score 83+ (twice) and still lose. Twice. In March. The defensive stats alone prove this team just didnt have the reps and experience to become a true Bill Self product. Not yet.
The devil in the system is that it needs its proper pieces for proper, efficient execution, and we’ve battled BASIC issues all season long with the 2 non-frosh starters being the worst defenders on the team, and leadership issues all the way to the moment our headless team got felled by a low-seed.
We deserved to sit at home, but that is NOT Bill Self’s fault, unless you “blame” it on recruiting a #91 PG who still isnt working out now, but no human is clairvoyant. If they were, they should be earning $$$ in Vegas.
Our problem this year was personnel issues: injury, youth, inexperience, and downright instinctive or mental inability in a few players. I saw Self harping on 'em ALL YEAR, only so much he can do.
The minute Self ever leaves KU will be one of the saddest days in the history of KU basketball.
Duke is sitting at home right now, along with UNC, OhioState, Syracuse, etc…and we, as dedicated fans, knew our teams season-long flaws, definitely exposed without Embiid.
bskeet last edited by
@ralster Good perspective.
I would just emphasize your final point:
With Duke and Syracuse sitting at home, you have the two winningest coaches in history sitting in the same spot as our coach. It’s not an excuse, it’s just a fact that the best coaches don’t always carry their team beyond the first weekend.
Win as a Team. Lose as a Team.
JayhawkRock78 last edited by
Nobody’s perfect: coaches, players, fans. That said there isn’t a coach alive today I would pick over Self.
I am happy this team leaves with a conference championship ring. I have one my self (different sport) but it is very very special-championships in any sport at any level are, and when ever I see a ring from anywhere I am very interested in the story behind it. Believe me these guys will treasure it and what the team did together the rest of their lives, even if they only play one year or ride the bench.italicised text
wissoxfan83 last edited by
Good question Ryman.
Should Florida win, and it’s a distinct possibility I probably don’t need to add, Billy Donovan would have three titles since 06 which would equal KU’s total since 1952. I would take Billy Donovan. I’m not anti-Bill Self at all. I think he’s amazing and will win again some day. As everyone is pointing out, this has not been a typical Bill Self team.
Should we get back to our staples of experienced players, tough D, serviceable offense we will get back to final fours and winning championships again.
Lulufulu85 last edited by
@JRyman Good. Very valid question. I tend to agree with most things posted on this awesome site because I am new at learning the game but not new at watching it. Ive been a fan since Larry and Danny won it in '88. I remember laying on the floor right in front of the tv at my friends house, who was a mizzou fan, and jumping up and down when KU won. It was awesome.
Bill is fallible. He made mistakes during the tournament that probably cost us the Stanford game. That’s just a maybe though. What I think DEFINITELY cost us the game was Embiid’s back being less than 100%. Im not putting the blame on the big guy. He should have sat, he needs to get healthy.
In my head there is no other coach that I would want at KU right now. None, well maybe Coach Brown again. but he would have to be an assistant to Coach Self.at home now watching games… except Kensuckky. But they will lose too and that will make me happy, even if they did gain a couple games on us this season dammit. Anyways, I am rambling. My point is all those posters that are saying Coach Self made mistakes that cost us the game against Stanford could very well be correct. That does not make Coach Self any less of a great coach in my eyes. He is human. His team is too. They will be older and more experienced next season and they will make a deeper tournament run. It will happen. Especially if Embiid comes back!!! *cross my fingers, hope to die. @Ralster is right. Every team with the highest win total is
nuleafjhawk last edited by
I would trade him in a heartbeat -
for the Bill Self that recruits 3 and 4 year kids.
Or - one and done’s and then uses his charm to keep them here for 3 or 4 years !!
@JRyman We’re not talking badly about your wife or your kids, even though KU does seem like your…and our family. I remember huddling around the tv years ago, hoping and praying that KU got an NCAA bid. Now, we’re front page news everywhere, we’ve got number 1 recruits playing for us, number 1 NBA picks playing for us, we have national titles, national runners up, we’re always a 1, 2 or 3 seed- we don’t have to worry about the “no respect” tag lines anymore…and all of that is due to the hard work and dedication of one man and his players…and that’s Coach Self and the KU Jayhawks. He has done a magnificent, tremendous job. More than anything, he has raised our expectations. As such, we expect to win. When we don’t, we examine why we didn’t win. When your father scolds you for making an F, when last semester you made an A, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you. Or he wants to get rid of you. It means we have raised expectations due to past experience of success. People wouldn’t gripe if they didn’t care. So, take what you can- ignore the parts you disagree with, and get ready for next season.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@KUSTEVE when my dad scolds me he has never said I wish you were more like Gregg Marshall!
drgnslayr last edited by
I’ve complained a lot about Bill Self before and after this latest loss.
Still can’t think of a replacement, nor would I want to replace him.
I just think he needs re-energizing and refocusing… that happens to people in all professions. We can all grow a bit stale in our current direction and then we need something to jolt us back on track or in a direction to become better.
Let’s just send Bill off to summer camp!
Maybe he is a little burned out and could use a 3-month trip to Thailand.
nuleafjhawk last edited by
@drgnslayr I like to think of myself as kind and thoughtful, so I would be happy to assist Cindy with any help she may need while Bill’s in Thailand.
@Crimsonorblue22 Come on, crimson. No real fan ever said that.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@KUSTEVE I’m not going back to find them, but yeah some did. Maybe they will fess up??? I have a hard time taking you seriously, jethro! Jk!!!
@Crimsonorblue22 Hey, I’m a double knot spy…lol. People are going to scream after a loss. Then we calm down. Then we begin to reflect. Then that reflection turns to hope for the future. Let the flamers flame, so to speak. Let them have their say ( Rodney Crain excluded), ignore the stupid stuff, and next thing we know, it’s September, and we’re getting ready for late night…
@Virgil_Caine-Very thorough & concise summation Virg, way to go. I was sitting in the church library reading “Rise & Walk” by Dennis Byrd the night we lost to Bradley & not then, not now, & not ever have I looked back & said I wish we still had Roy. But you & I both also plainly can see a great shortcoming in our offense that has come to the fore front & rear it’s ugly head several times in the dance in recent years. The inability to consistently hit 3’s not just when needed for emergency, but pretty much all the time. Great 3 ball shooters take time to develop & cultivate. They need reassurance & confidence (like females) LOL. You can’t just pull a guy off the pine & say OK do your stuff & expect him to be successful on a moments notice. That is definitely an area Bill needs to address going forward & not just because of personnel limitations. He has the guys that can do it if he would just free up the reins a little during the season. If it takes a few L’s to get your troops up to speed & battle tested to be proficient, then so be it. It was painfully obvious that he did have personnel issues trying to run the hi lo this year with all the new guys, but when were up against zones this year we had no answers except the ones deep on the bench. The trifecta is just another weapon we face & even though we have it also, we never seem to try to deploy it in either retaliation or need. Plus, IMO, about the best way to get your guys to learn how to beat a zone is teach them how to play & defend with it. I’ve not read any comments at all, & I don’t profess to even try to read them all, that say coach Self should go. That’s just insanity & hogwash. What I have read is posts from those adamantly defending him from criticism saying “if you think you can do better. then apply for the job.” That’s also malarkey. Respect for dissenting opinions is not a strong suit for some here, even though we (I) always gain more knowledge from different styles & points of view. I greatly appreciate yours as always.
Posted on nbcsports 1 minute ago that Embid will enter the 2014 NBA drafthttp://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/27/report-joel-embiid-to-enter-the-2014-nba-draft/.
approxinfinity last edited by approxinfinity
I like what Archie Miller has his team doing. Their ball movement is fast, not sticky on anyone. That used to be one of Self’s buzz-phrases. When exactly did he stop talking about it? Dayton has 13 assists in the first half, compared to our 7 for the whole game. They established their outside game, and also rotated the ball inside quickly. Stanford’s interior D doesn’t look so imposing when they have to guard the perimeter and aren’t camping in the lane. Also, Dayton looks confident. They shot 46.9 in the first half, including 6-13 from 3 (46.2%).
Dayton’s style looks like a place someone like Andrew White could thrive. The play where they got out in transition, 2 on 2, and both Stanford players went to the paint, one Flyer pulled up at the 3 line, got the dish and shot it without hesitation. I thought early on in the season, Andrew looked good in transition, his hands looked quicker resulting in a few steals, and he looked confident running in the break and finishing at the rim… If you added a green light to pull up for 3, I like thinking what he could do.
I put this comment on this particular thread not because I’m suggesting that Archie Miller is better than Bill Self, but because Archie Miller is now officially on my radar.
@approxinfinity Notice that Stanford did throw that zone at Dayton…they needed to guard Dayton’s shooters.
approxinfinity last edited by approxinfinity
I’ll try to answer the original question honestly. I think Self’s players have historically not been mentally prepared for several tournament games. Maybe Self wasn’t mentally prepared either. I think he preaches self sufficiency in life and on the court, and that can be good and bad. Good when his players figure it out and bad when they don’t, especially in big games.
Self’s idea of preparation is practice and planning. It isn’t entering a game with clear minds, full hearts (to steal a line from Friday Night Lights). Jaybate often refers to Self’s mental game. This year, it felt like it was deflated/exhausted. Maybe it was all of the hangups, both new (a team full of freshman with OAD dreams who couldn’t play defense, except for one very big injured player) and old/dejavu (underperforming point guard). Whatever it was, his mental game wasn’t there at the end. It felt resigned. I don’t blame him. If I equate the hurdles he’s had to equivelent hurdles I might experience at my job, I’d have a down year too.
I think Self is a good halftime adjustment guy, but bad at calling time outs, again because he’s a work through your mistakes/practice guy. Among the upper echelon of coaches, he is usually pretty average at adjustments while the game is going on. As many have said, he’s a system guy to a fault.
He’s gone away from the 3 ball (remember BRush raining corner 3’s, sometimes in transition?), he’s gone away from taking defensive chances (remember those 20-2 runs sparked by steals by Mario/RussRob?), and become overly reliant on slow-down offensive sets and conservative defense. That was a disastrous formula with this group, and came to a head with Embiid out, but then it was too late to adjust.
So I’d say he’s had a tough year with a lot of challenges, and he did not adjust his game plan to this players. Rather, he tried to adjust his personel to his game plan, while watering down his game plan, but not changing its nature.
There are other coaches whom I respect and appreciate in the ways they differ from Self. That is not to say I wish they were our coach. But I do appreciate the qualities that they have that Self may not be as strong in. I also believe Self misses some of his assistant coaches that moved on terribly, because I believe they possessed some of the qualities that Self has problems with (he’s acknowledge this in his book). I think not enough focus is being placed on the assistant coaches and the level of trust/ownership that they have with the team.
Here are some of the coaches/staffs that I appreciate as being great in game coaches: Izzo, Beilein, Donovan, Pitino. There are others that have shown a lot of talent, but these guys have completely proven themselves.
I love Bill Self. I want to see him get his mojo back next season. And I think that means I want Joe Dooley back. Since that’s not going to happen, that leaves me a bit uncertain about our bench. Also, I want Larry Brown to quit his job and spend all his nervous basketball energy daydreaming about what our guys could do with their talent. I want Bill Self to find a mental fountain of youth and stay fresh like the guys I listed above. I believe he can do it. I hope he does.