We've been here before, but after last year, it feels different.
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@HawkChamp I didn’t miss it, I just don’t overhype his performance because of one good game. His limited minutes are getting overhyped the way Cole Aldrich as a freshmen frequently gets overhyped because of what Cole did against UNC. Silvio has a lot of potential, but until he shows he can do that consistently with extended minutes, it’s still just potential for Silvio. He won’t be what he was against WVU in the B12 tournament every game. That was an A+ game and you get A+ every game. Most games you get a C and Silvio’s C game this year is probably lower than Dedric’s C game was last season at least on offense.
Silvio played more than 15 minutes 3 times and only reached double digits in points two times. Most of his offense was limited to put backs off of misses or teams doubling Doke off of him.
The reason Dedric became less efficient as the year went on was because he was the sole focus of the offense after Doke’s injury. When you put have one guy who’s not afraid to take a shot, his numbers were going to get worse as the year went because he was wearing down because he didn’t have any help.
Don’t forget that in the NCAA Tournament, Silvio played 10, 4, 13, 26, and 10 minutes in those games. He didn’t exactly follow up that WVU game with more great games.
His NCAA performance is why I’m pumping the brakes on the Silvio hype train. Do not forget that in his 22 games, Silvio played a grand total of 175 minutes.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I know all that, I watched every game and have watched replays. Similarly, you should not forget that he was what, two months removed from high school? To do what he did in that short amount of time is a testament to his potential and learning capability.
My position remains the same - we will be a better team at the end of the year with a long, strong and athletic player like Silvio over a player like Dedric. Don’t get me wrong, I like Dedric as a player but he doesn’t raise the ceiling of a team to the extent that Silvio does.
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@HawkChamp Your key term is potential. I will not argue about the higher ceiling because Silvio absolutely has the higher ceiling. KU is not getting a 4th year Silvio with a refined game. They’re getting a Silvio with less than 200 of game time that’s likely still very raw offensively. That consistency is why I’d rather take a 4th year Dedric over the version of Silvio we’ll get this year that will likely still struggle with consistency.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 that May happen, it may not. Who knows how “refined” his game is. All I care about is progression through the year and it doesn’t sound illogical to assume Silvio will do just that. He has final four experience and a year to learn about Selfs system and practice with the team. I mean, it’s not like he was chilling on the sidelines and doing nothing but eat Snickers and listen to Kanye the whole time. Sure, he needs more game experience but he’ll get plenty of that during the season and be primed to go in March.
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@HawkChamp The E8 win against Duke in that run, Silvio played 26 minutes and scored 4 points. That’s why he won’t be Dedric Lawson. He will develop, but that takes time and there is no substitute for that. Lawson got to where he was because of on court experience. Silvio DeSousa lacks that.
Lawson was entering his junior season just like Silvio will be this year. Silvio has played 175 minutes of college basketball entering his junior season. Dedric Lawson had played 2,166 minutes of college basketball entering his junior season.
As far as practicing, yeah Silvio practiced last season, but he was scout team all year. He wasn’t running the KU offense at all in practice, he was running the other team’s offense. This matters as well because he doesn’t have the reps in the Self offense.
I think you’re getting way ahead of yourself about what Silvio will be this year because of a few good moments sprinkled in with a lot more bad moments.
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@HawkChamp Ok, I was wrong. Moss shot 33 of 67 from 3 in B10 play, which is only 49%…not 50%.
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https://twitter.com/silviodesousa5/status/1152338079484710913?s=21
On a side not Silvio looks to be in shape
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Just getting ready to post that! So dang happy for him!
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Woodrow said:
https://twitter.com/silviodesousa5/status/1152338079484710913?s=21
On a side not Silvio looks to be in shape
Mercy - - that’s like a brick shithouse without a brick missing
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@Texas-Hawk-10 And I think you’re ignoring important facts about when Silvio played.
First, with Svi, Devonte, Malik and Vick being the terrific perimeter players and shooters they were, the offense was never going to go through a freshman Silvio, nor should it have.
Secondly, you discuss point numbers yet conveniently leave out his rebounding numbers and overall low post presence, which is what we were desperately needing at the time. In the Big 12 tournament, here are his numbers -
OSU - 6 points, 8 rebounds
KSU - 8 points, 11 rebounds
WVU - 16 points, 10 rebounds
I’ll give it to you that he didn’t do much against Penn or Seton Hall, but here are his numbers against Clemson and Duke -
Clemson - 9 points, 6 rebounds
Duke - 4 points, 10 rebounds
To me, those are all really solid numbers and absolutely took care of the need. If he posted numbers like that in that short amount of time, I’m confident that he has potential to do more. I’m not sure why this is something that would even be brought up for debate by anyone who paid attention to the games at the time.
Thirdly, you say that there were plenty of bad moments - uh, duh, he was two months removed from high school and joined during conference season! Yeah, he was on a steep learning curve that was a very unique situation and yet he improved a lot and played great for us on the way to the Big 12 tournament championship and a final four run.
Given on court time, Silvio WILL get there and impact the team in more diverse ways than Dedric ever did. Remember, scoring is important but there is more to it than that. There is a reason dragonslayr has been talking a lot about the physicality of our frontcourt with Dok, Dave and Silvio. Did we have that last year with no Dok and Silvio? Absolutely not. It was soft as a kitten’s fur in that department, which is part of what Dedric does not contribute. I know Silvio will likely not score as many points as Dedric per game, but it’s the other facets of his game that this year’s team will reap the benefits of.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I think Silvio gets 20 minutes a game, max…simply because of what silvio lacks- a mid-range game. They interviewed Coach Self a few weeks ago, and asked him who had made the biggest improvements of anyone on the team this summer, and he said…hands down it was Dave. He said there is absolutely no question that Dave was our best big shooter by far. Dave could make the Silvio worry moot. And I think he will. Now, you’ll probably fire back that Dave is not all that and a bag of chips, but you won’t convince me otherwise. In fact, I think you’re going to be surprised how good Silvio looks, too.
You compared Moss to Vick, and then missed the boat on the most important difference between Vick and Moss: Moss ain’t gonna quit on the team. Advantage Moss.
Saying 3 point shooters are streaky is like saying that water is wet. We could say that about Devonte, Malik, and Svi. One would have a good game while the rest couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn that night. Very few times did all three just murder it in a game. My point is that we have guys that can make 3s. Moss will never be as open as he is in our offense. In the Iowa offense, he had to create every shot. He’s going to die and go to heaven being fed the ball being completely wide open. Maybe Ochai is injury prone, and never gets there. But, maybe he manages better this year with full awareness of the symptoms, and knows when to back off better than he did the first time it happened. Maybe he manages 25-30 minutes. I’m betting 35% or better from 3 because he can flat shoot. I like JW too. McBride…Braun are no slouches…and one of these days, Marcus is going to put it together. Then you add the best basketball coach in college, and you have a formula for a deep run.
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@KUSTEVE Dave isn’t going to be playing alongside Doke much, if at all, he’s going to be the back up for Doke which means him and Silvio likely play together quite a bit as well. I do think the spacing will be better with Dave and Silvio together because of Dave’s mid range ability. My big concern with Dave is his rebounding ability because it was awful last year. That has to get better for him to see a significant uptick in his minutes.
You also need to go back and re-read my Vick/Moss comparison because I specifically said on the court, I did not mention off the court because I’ve already called Vick the second biggest cancer KU has had under Self. I wasn’t a big fan of bringing Vick back last year because of his baggage.
Saying a 3 point shooter streaky is like saying water is wet is not a good analogy. There is a difference in the type of outside shooter players like Vick and Moss are compared to what Svi, Graham, and Mason were as shooters. A bit streak for a streaky shooter may be something like hitting 60 or 70% over a 2-3 game stretch like we saw with Vick early last season. A cold streak for a streaky shooter is going to be hitting about 20% over a several game stretch.
Consistent shooters like Svi, Graham, and Mason don’t tend to spike as much either way during hot or cold stretches. That’s the difference between a streaky shooter and a consistent shooter.
Wilson, McBride, and Braun can shoot, but they won’t be factors in the rotation so they don’t add much this year. In a couple of seasons, those guys will probably challenge the '17 and '18 teams for made 3’s, but they aren’t ready yet.
As for Garrett he’s never going to be a good shooter. Just look as his FT% and tell me why we should expect him to ever find a consistent shot. His ceiling is about 33% as a deep shooter. Garrett is a slasher, not a shooter.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Hope your wrong but that’s a strong take. I have the same concerns.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@KUSTEVE Dave isn’t going to be playing alongside Doke much, if at all, he’s going to be the back up for Doke which means him and Silvio likely play together quite a bit as well. I do think the spacing will be better with Dave and Silvio together because of Dave’s mid range ability. My big concern with Dave is his rebounding ability because it was awful last year. That has to get better for him to see a significant uptick in his minutes.
You also need to go back and re-read my Vick/Moss comparison because I specifically said on the court, I did not mention off the court because I’ve already called Vick the second biggest cancer KU has had under Self. I wasn’t a big fan of bringing Vick back last year because of his baggage.
Saying a 3 point shooter streaky is like saying water is wet is not a good analogy. There is a difference in the type of outside shooter players like Vick and Moss are compared to what Svi, Graham, and Mason were as shooters. A bit streak for a streaky shooter may be something like hitting 60 or 70% over a 2-3 game stretch like we saw with Vick early last season. A cold streak for a streaky shooter is going to be hitting about 20% over a several game stretch.
Consistent shooters like Svi, Graham, and Mason don’t tend to spike as much either way during hot or cold stretches. That’s the difference between a streaky shooter and a consistent shooter.
Wilson, McBride, and Braun can shoot, but they won’t be factors in the rotation so they don’t add much this year. In a couple of seasons, those guys will probably challenge the '17 and '18 teams for made 3’s, but they aren’t ready yet.
As for Garrett he’s never going to be a good shooter. Just look as his FT% and tell me why we should expect him to ever find a consistent shot. His ceiling is about 33% as a deep shooter. Garrett is a slasher, not a shooter.
I think your just flat grossly mis stating fact if you think Wilson won’t be a factor - your WAY under estimating Wilson
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@jayballer73 Where are his minutes going to come from? This is the type of team where Self typically has a very short leash with freshmen.
Just about every scouting report on Wilson talks about him being a better scorer than shooter at this point so I wouldn’t expect him to light world in fire with his shooting right away. He was also described as a good athlete which means he’s a step slow compared to the top recruits where you would see the term great or elite athlete.
There’s a reason he was ranked 50ish in a weak recruiting class. He’s nowhere near a polished product and he’s going to need time to get to where he can be which I think is somewhere between Marcus Morris and Perry Ellis. Those players needed time as well to become what they became at KU.
Best case for Jalen Wilson this year is the 4th big man which historically means 7-8 mpg because he isn’t jumping Doke, Silvio, or Dave in the rotation barring injury. If Lightfoot doesn’t redshirt, then Wilson is a non factor this year in the rotation and would only see spot minutes in mop up time because he wouldn’t be ahead of Lightfoot either.
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@jayballer73 We know historically that Self prefers a 7 or 8 man rotation once he trims the rotation for B12 play. Injuries can mess that rotation up obviously, but this is assuming no injuries.
KU has a full 13 man roster of scholarship players so that means 5 or 6 scholarship players will not be in that rotation. We also know redshsirting is a possibility, but we won’t know who actually does or doesn’t until much later so I’m ignoring that right now. Just so everyone is clear, the 3 redshirt possibilities this season would be Lightfoot, Braun, and Harris.
I think only of the starting spots are guaranteed at this point and that’s Dotson and Doke. The other two perimeter spots will be between Agbaji, Garrett, and Moss and the other post spot will be between Silvio and McCormack.
I think the best line up for KU would be Dotson, Moss, Agbaji, Silvio, and Doke. I say this because Marcus Garrett can play 1-4 so he can sub for anyone if KU wanted to go 4 guards. I would have Dave off the bench because he can sub for either post position.
That’s 7 players right there, that means there’s maybe 1 more rotation spot available. Depending on how Self uses Garrett, that 8th rotation spot is likely the back up PG spot. That’s a battle between McBride and Harris for that role.
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@KUSTEVE I agree, and people are saying that defenses are going to pack it in. Pack it in with who and against whom? Our frontcourt is made of men and deep, and we will have shooters waiting outside.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Dave has a ways to go as a big. But, when I hear Coach Self raving about him the way he did this summer, it tells me something is happening enough for the coach to say “hands down” the most growth in the summer. Maybe some shooting range, maybe some improved ball skills, maybe some better rebounding. These players aren’t stationary bicycles- they grow…they improve.
I think you’ve been crooning over Dedric’s 19ppg so much, you aren’t realizing that his points will be replaced. They are always replaced. Might not be one guy picking up the slack, but I guarantee you Bill’s offense will always score what they normally score. In fact, because we have to make up for one big scoring guy, that makes our offense more diverse, and harder to defend. After Perry graduated, we all said where are the points going to come from now that Perry is gone, and we managed. We wonder every year where the points are going to come from ( unless we have returning top scorers), and every year, Bill manages to figure it out. It is why he is in the Hall of Fame.
Maybe it’s a hodgepodge of 3 point shooters that carry us when we need it. Maybe it’s Moss one night, Dotson the next time, and Agbaji the next. Maybe our frontline allows to us play more aggressively, and we pick up some cheapies off our defense. Cheapies we weren’t getting last year because our defense sucked so badly. Maybe the improved rebounding allows us to have more possessions than last year, and so the “live and die by the 3 when they pack in the lane and we shoot badly” meme doesn’t hold as much water. Maybe the question isn’t “how is KU going to score” as relevant as “how are we going to score on KU”??? . Remember, there’s more than one way to skin a wildcat.
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Dedrick was pretty good and KU would’ve been up the creek without him. But don’t forget a “refined” Dedrick dropped a couple goose eggs as the focal point in the post. Silvio and his positive energy will be a nice change.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 Where are his minutes going to come from? This is the type of team where Self typically has a very short leash with freshmen.
Just about every scouting report on Wilson talks about him being a better scorer than shooter at this point so I wouldn’t expect him to light world in fire with his shooting right away. He was also described as a good athlete which means he’s a step slow compared to the top recruits where you would see the term great or elite athlete.
There’s a reason he was ranked 50ish in a weak recruiting class. He’s nowhere near a polished product and he’s going to need time to get to where he can be which I think is somewhere between Marcus Morris and Perry Ellis. Those players needed time as well to become what they became at KU.
Best case for Jalen Wilson this year is the 4th big man which historically means 7-8 mpg because he isn’t jumping Doke, Silvio, or Dave in the rotation barring injury. If Lightfoot doesn’t redshirt, then Wilson is a non factor this year in the rotation and would only see spot minutes in mop up time because he wouldn’t be ahead of Lightfoot either.
Well he and Doke play totally different positions - Dave and him play totally different positions so that eliminates him - - Silvio gonna be playing the 4 if not the 5 - - Jalen gonna be seeing more then enough time between the 2 and the 3 - – Jalen has a nice stroke and yes he IS a scorer. - -Evan Daniels said multiple times that Jalen was a very overlooked rated player saying he should of been rated at least 10 higher
sit back and watch he gonna be much more playing factor then what your talking about. - He gonna between the two/three will be getting 13-14 minutes a game - -just watch. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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If Jalen Wilson plays a meaningful second at the 2 I will buy you a whole case of beer brother.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 We know historically that Self prefers a 7 or 8 man rotation once he trims the rotation for B12 play. Injuries can mess that rotation up obviously, but this is assuming no injuries.
KU has a full 13 man roster of scholarship players so that means 5 or 6 scholarship players will not be in that rotation. We also know redshsirting is a possibility, but we won’t know who actually does or doesn’t until much later so I’m ignoring that right now. Just so everyone is clear, the 3 redshirt possibilities this season would be Lightfoot, Braun, and Harris.
I think only of the starting spots are guaranteed at this point and that’s Dotson and Doke. The other two perimeter spots will be between Agbaji, Garrett, and Moss and the other post spot will be between Silvio and McCormack.
I think the best line up for KU would be Dotson, Moss, Agbaji, Silvio, and Doke. I say this because Marcus Garrett can play 1-4 so he can sub for anyone if KU wanted to go 4 guards. I would have Dave off the bench because he can sub for either post position.
That’s 7 players right there, that means there’s maybe 1 more rotation spot available. Depending on how Self uses Garrett, that 8th rotation spot is likely the back up PG spot. That’s a battle between McBride and Harris for that role.
I agree with Devon and Doke for the starting. - I think your gonna see a lot of Devon - - - and Doke - - - -Moss - - - - - -Silvio - -& Jalen combinations. - - -
I feel that chances are we will see Marcus actually getting the start a lot of times at the 3 - and then relieving Devon when he needs a spot rest at the 1 - -don’t see Marcus playing anytime at the 4 - -I think we will see Agbaji backing Moss or visa versa at the 2 - -and even Jalen getting some at the 2 - -I think Jalen will see quality minutes at the 3 - -and Dave backing Doke at the 5 and Mitch backing Silvio at the 4 - or you can adjust according with the bigs between the 4 and 5. - -With Mitch playing some 5 - - - your not gonna see Jalen playing any 5 you can take that to the bank in College. Jalen is gonna get his minutes. - -A big reason Coach has only played 7 or 8 is he hasn’t had a full compliment of quality players like this coming year.
He has had 1-2 super studs on the roster but he has actually 13 quality players 3-4 yr players well except for Doke who is a Senior and Devon who will be gone after this year. - -I really feel he is going to use his depth more this year - -he could actually go 2 deep over the entire line up - - -not that he will obviously , I just think your gonna see more then the 7 players I think you will see him going more or leaning more towards 9 this year
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BShark said:
If Jalen Wilson plays a meaningful second at the 2 I will buy you a whole case of beer brother.
lmao - - - BUD LITE PLEASE lol - - ya - -Most of Jalen’s minutes will be at the 3 - -but HE WILL get minutes - - more then 8-9 a game - even if you have to combine the two positions. - - BUD LITE - - BUD LITE - and very cold please - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I like the confidence! I think he will mostly play at the 4, possibly get some time at the wing later. But with his athleticism he is more of a 4 in Bill’s system. But the kind that draws away from the basket with a face up game like Perry and Marcus.
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@jayballer73 Yeah, definitely ice cold. No lukewarm beer, please.
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@KUSTEVE KU only scored 75 ppg last season. This is not some elite scoring team KU is returning. Considering this team is made up of mostly the same group as last season expect for two players (the two leading scorers), one of whom is not an offensive upgrade, wondering about points is a valid concern since it was a struggle last season at times.
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@jayballer73 How much video on Wilson have you watched? He is not athletic enough to guard on the perimeter. Jalen Wilson will not see a single minute at the 2 during his time at KU.
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Marco said:
@jayballer73 Yeah, definitely ice cold. No lukewarm beer, please.
oh ya - -ICE COLD - -goes down really nice on really hot days - and after that 1st one on hot days - - look out lol
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 How much video on Wilson have you watched? He is not athletic enough to guard on the perimeter. Jalen Wilson will not see a single minute at the 2 during his time at KU.
we shall see - - but I have seen enough to stick with what I said - -Jalen will FOR SURE get more minutes then what you project. - -Bshark - saying he thinks he plays at the 4 spot - -so even if he doesn’t see a minute at the 2 like you say - which actually I’ve NEVER seen him playing there either that much - -but very strong about him playing the 3 - - so even I he plays mostly at the 3 - -then backs Silvio at the 4 he STILL getting more minutes. - -Jalen gonna see ALOT of time at the 3
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@jayballer73 Whoever doesn’t start among Garrett, Agbaji, and Moss is getting the back up minutes on the wing. Jalen Wilson isn’t playing nearly as many minutes as you think he will this season. He’s a solid prospect, but there’s a reason he’s ranked as low as he was in a weak class. He’ll be a nice player in years 2 and beyond, but he won’t average more than 7-8 minutes this year and that’s only if Lightfoot redshirts. If Lightfoot doesn’t redshirt, Wilson will average less than 5 mpg.
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If I’m not mistaken, Moss is a 40+% shooter from trey. Yes… he can be inconsistent. Every player is from trey. I watch Steph Curry go 2 for 12, then go net 8 in a row. It’s the nature of trey shooting… hot, cold, hot. What counts is the %.
You are putting up a solid argument. But you don’t account for the positive unknowns. Mostly… we have a HOFr coach. It’s his job to tweak the offense to make things work.
I definitely see Moss as an improvement over Vick and Q. Moss has many offensive weapons. Vick was only a trey shooter. Vick’s shot stopped falling because teams would scout him. Really easy… get in his grill on the trey line and he’s done. He wouldn’t drive on those opportunities because he became a very non-aggressive player. Q wasn’t a threat from trey or to drive. Zero! Surely Moss will play with more aggression.
I don’t want to bag on Vick… I still like Vick a lot. But we were a better team without him. That speaks volumes. And though our depth chart fell… I felt like we would have been a much better team without Q. Total liability.
Watch the clip on Moss scoring all those points in like a minute and a half. He surely has some alpha dog in him to do that… something no other D1 player has ever done.
I like your commentary on many of the new guys and trying to throttle down immediate expectations. Wise. We never know if one or more of those guys can end up giving us a solid contribution in year 1, but we just can’t count on that. I know I don’t, but I’m still extremely optimistic about this team!
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@drgnslayr Isaiah Moss had a PER of 14 last season. That’s the same as Mitch Lightfoot last season. Moss shot a pathetic 38% from 2 point range last season.
Off the court and character wise, Moss is an upgrade over Vick, there’s no arguing that part of the equation and that’s why Moss is a net upgrade over Vick. As far as actually basketball ability goes however, Moss is not a better player than Vick. Moss had 14 games last season where failed to make a 3 pointer. 8 of those 0-fer games were in Iowa’s last 16 games of the season. 4 of those 16 games, he didn’t make a single FG the entire game. Go look at the game logs for Moss and you will see a picture of inconsistency on offense.
Moss does not drive well or take many shots inside the arc. Moss took 162 FGA last season, 114 of those were from 3 point range. I’ll be honest, if someone gave me the choice between Lagerald Vick without the baggage or Isaiah Moss, I’d take Vick every time.
There will be moments this season where people are wondering why the hell did Self bring him in, just be ready for it.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 well that is depressing!
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Man TexasHawk is certainly on a mission this summer to crush any hope of optimism or positivity that we all are craving after the debacle that was last season. How dare we be excited and hopeful that things are better. Shame on us!
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drgnslayr said:
If I’m not mistaken, Moss is a 40+% shooter from trey. Yes… he can be inconsistent. Every player is from trey. I watch Steph Curry go 2 for 12, then go net 8 in a row. It’s the nature of trey shooting… hot, cold, hot. What counts is the %.
You are putting up a solid argument. But you don’t account for the positive unknowns. Mostly… we have a HOFr coach. It’s his job to tweak the offense to make things work.
I definitely see Moss as an improvement over Vick and Q. Moss has many offensive weapons. Vick was only a trey shooter. Vick’s shot stopped falling because teams would scout him. Really easy… get in his grill on the trey line and he’s done. He wouldn’t drive on those opportunities because he became a very non-aggressive player. Q wasn’t a threat from trey or to drive. Zero! Surely Moss will play with more aggression.
I don’t want to bag on Vick… I still like Vick a lot. But we were a better team without him. That speaks volumes. And though our depth chart fell… I felt like we would have been a much better team without Q. Total liability.
Watch the clip on Moss scoring all those points in like a minute and a half. He surely has some alpha dog in him to do that… something no other D1 player has ever done.
I like your commentary on many of the new guys and trying to throttle down immediate expectations. Wise. We never know if one or more of those guys can end up giving us a solid contribution in year 1, but we just can’t count on that. I know I don’t, but I’m still extremely optimistic about this team!
This +100. How some people (not mentioning any names lol) forget that Vick was often a liability on defense, something that Moss is known for being good at. I would take solid D and the percentage he shot last year in conference play, however inconsistent, every day of the week. To me, this is a no-brainer.
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KUSTEVE said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Dave has a ways to go as a big. But, when I hear Coach Self raving about him the way he did this summer, it tells me something is happening enough for the coach to say “hands down” the most growth in the summer. Maybe some shooting range, maybe some improved ball skills, maybe some better rebounding. These players aren’t stationary bicycles- they grow…they improve.
I think you’ve been crooning over Dedric’s 19ppg so much, you aren’t realizing that his points will be replaced. They are always replaced. Might not be one guy picking up the slack, but I guarantee you Bill’s offense will always score what they normally score. In fact, because we have to make up for one big scoring guy, that makes our offense more diverse, and harder to defend. After Perry graduated, we all said where are the points going to come from now that Perry is gone, and we managed. We wonder every year where the points are going to come from ( unless we have returning top scorers), and every year, Bill manages to figure it out. It is why he is in the Hall of Fame.
Maybe it’s a hodgepodge of 3 point shooters that carry us when we need it. Maybe it’s Moss one night, Dotson the next time, and Agbaji the next. Maybe our frontline allows to us play more aggressively, and we pick up some cheapies off our defense. Cheapies we weren’t getting last year because our defense sucked so badly. Maybe the improved rebounding allows us to have more possessions than last year, and so the “live and die by the 3 when they pack in the lane and we shoot badly” meme doesn’t hold as much water. Maybe the question isn’t “how is KU going to score” as relevant as “how are we going to score on KU”??? . Remember, there’s more than one way to skin a wildcat.
This man gets it. Well said @KUSTEVE
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@HawkChamp This is very good team on paper with a very high ceiling just like each of the last several seasons. Moss is a solid defender, but he’s not better than Dotson or Garrett at that end of the floor.
The ranking last season and this season is based purely on one player and that’s Udoka Azubuike. His two wrist injuries to me are a sign that his muscles, tendons, and ligaments haven’t caught up to his size yet. I guarantee he’s not the only player who’s hand has been caught in Jersey in practice under Self, but why is he the only one suffering serious injuries from that. The one year he didn’t have a season ending injury, Doke still missed the B12 tournament with back issues.
I’ll this right now, as long as Doke stays healthy, KU will be a top 5 team. If Doke misses games though, and given his track record I’d bet money him missing games, KU will struggle like last year because they will still have the same issues as last season.
With Doke, this team should make at least the E8. Without him, they will struggle to reach the Sweet 16.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 it was his knee, the reason he missed big 12 tourney
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 Whoever doesn’t start among Garrett, Agbaji, and Moss is getting the back up minutes on the wing. Jalen Wilson isn’t playing nearly as many minutes as you think he will this season. He’s a solid prospect, but there’s a reason he’s ranked as low as he was in a weak class. He’ll be a nice player in years 2 and beyond, but he won’t average more than 7-8 minutes this year and that’s only if Lightfoot redshirts. If Lightfoot doesn’t redshirt, Wilson will average less than 5 mpg.
just do me a favor and let me have some of that drink your drinking cause that must be some good shit - -that’s laughable and I stay with he is gonna play ALOT more then you think
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@jayballer73 agree with @Texas-Hawk-10 here. Minutes are exactly what I’d expect (8 min or 5 min) whether there’s a redshirt btwn Lightfoot/Enanura or not.
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@jayballer73 Who is Jalen Wilson better than right now that would give him big minutes?
Is he better than Udoka Azubuike?
Is he better than Silvio DeSousa?
Is he better than David McCormack?
Is he better than Mitch Lightfoot?
Which of those 4 players is he better than right now?
Only way Jalen Wilson is playing good minutes this year once Selfntrims the rotation is an injury or suspension to someone in that group.
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@Crimsonorblue22 That’s right, Embiid was the back issue. It’s still an injury attributed to his size though which is the main concern with Doke.
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To me, he looks like a taller Thomas Robinson. Great job Hudy!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Very few of Bill’s teams have ever had a scorer as prolific as Dedric. Frank. Can’t think of anyone else other than those two off the bat. It’s not the norm. No doubt Silvio won’t score like Dedric, but I could see Dotson scoring 5 more a game than last year. Doke will get his, and I really think Ochai breaks out in a significant way. If they disappoint, then we have a new version of 2012. They’ll be ok on offense, but they will dominate on defense. 2012, we were 23rd in offense on Kenpom…last year, we were 27th. In 2012, we were ranked 3rd in defense…last year we somehow ended up 17th. As bad as we were defensively…17th. Unbelievable. If our defense turns it up like I think it will, we’ll be grinding teams into a fine powder.
Now, this is all predicated on good health as you have alluded to in previous posts. But having injury history can also be a positive because it has the athlete taking direct action to prevent reoccurrence. With Ochai, if I had a whisper of a doubt about his health, I wouldn’t have seen him take a pass in a scrimmage, and pass the ball between his legs before dunking with authority. With Doke, I don’t think we’ll see the backboard splitting dunks of the past…we’ll see softer throw downs in order to protect his hands.
So, if our offense is just ok, then we still have a shot at 2012 type ceiling, where we won close games until the championship game. They weren’t pretty, they had their moments where scoring was a real challenge, but that team was a defensive nightmare for other teams. Just like we’ll be. Now, we are discussing a Bill Self team, are we not? The originator of “Bad Ball”. Bill prefers a 65-60 game more than a 85-80 game anyway. He’s been itching to get another big in the lineup for years. Hi-lo, baby…it’s where it’s at. No more " Four Out Fools Gold". That change can make the offense not flow as well, so it’s not like your offensive concerns are unfounded. But, Bill likes it like that…grind it out, out rebound them, out tough them, defend hard … that’s his calling card. I don’t think we’ll be nearly as offensively challenged as you think, but if we are, we’ve got the right guy at the helm to make it work.
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approxinfinity said:
@jayballer73 agree with @Texas-Hawk-10 here. Minutes are exactly what I’d expect (8 min or 5 min) whether there’s a redshirt btwn Lightfoot/Enanura or not.
you got your opinion no problem - -and I’ll take what your drinking too lol
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I believe Embiid broke his back when he was thrown to the court. Still no foul has been called though. lol
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 Who is Jalen Wilson better than right now that would give him big minutes?
Is he better than Udoka Azubuike?
Is he better than Silvio DeSousa?
Is he better than David McCormack?
Is he better than Mitch Lightfoot?
Which of those 4 players is he better than right now?
Only way Jalen Wilson is playing good minutes this year once Selfntrims the rotation is an injury or suspension to someone in that group.
your trying him to have him take minutes from positions he is never gonna play - - Hello? - his minutes will come from the 3 - - again from the 3 - - again from the 3 - you can’t try and ask if he is good enough to take minutes from Doke - -or McCormack those are positions he doesn’t even play - -ya probably better then Mitch - -well talent wise anyways - -Is Mitch gonna start at the 3 - - ummm – NOPE - who will keep him from getting quality minutes at the 3? - - at best Abaji will be competing - - - Eraunra isn’t better at this point anyways - both Freshman Garrett might take some but not enough to keep him at 5-7 minutes a game. - -and when he isn’t playing minutes at the 3 then he wil like has been mentioned more likely then not be getting minutes at the 4
There is no way in hell he only gets 5-7 minutes a game - -he would have to be a complete bust - -NOT HAPPENING - your approach you talk like he has never seen a basketball court in his life and will trip over his own feet - you must be watching some other film. - but this is pointless to keep going back and forth with you - -I’m staying with what I said before - -he will for sure get more then any 5-7 minutes a game. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 Jalen Wilson is not a 3 at the college level no matter how much you want him to play that spot because he’s not quick enough to guard perimeter players and doesn’t have the handles to be a perimeter based player. He’s was 6-8, 215 lbs. on his recruiting profiles with more room to fill out. 6-8, 230ish lbs. is not a wing in college, that’s a stretch 4. He have a similar role in the offense that Perry Ellis, Josh Jackson, and Marcus Morris had as face up players who can stretch defenses
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I’m excited to see the team play, but I don’t expect any impact from the freshman this season. Moss is the impact addition coupled with the returning guys, less the deadwood that makes me excited.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 Jalen Wilson is not a 3 at the college level no matter how much you want him to play that spot because he’s not quick enough to guard perimeter players and doesn’t have the handles to be a perimeter based player. He’s was 6-8, 215 lbs. on his recruiting profiles with more room to fill out. 6-8, 230ish lbs. is not a wing in college, that’s a stretch 4. He have a similar role in the offense that Perry Ellis, Josh Jackson, and Marcus Morris had as face up players who can stretch defenses
Are you fricken serious? - - are you really trying to say you know more then Coach Self? you know I try with you - - I really do - -just seems no matter what or with you ,you just love to debate and seems like you have all the answers to everything.
Are you for real ? - Why do you think Coach went after Jalen as hard as he did - we missed the 1st time - -Coach wanted him - -got lucky things worked out the 2nd time - -do you really think Coach Self recruited this kid to Ku just so he could be buried at the end of the Bench to play the measly 5-7 minutes a Game that you so wisely predict? - Get out of here with that. - -Coach recruited Jalen for a reason - -because of a need - -we have a void at the 3 - -that’s EXACTLY why he recruited Jalen - -to fill that void at the 3 - -he sure the hell didn’t recruit a top 50 kid to have him come sit with our situation being what it is at the 3 - -he IS NOT going to be sitting at the end of the bench playing water boy. - -you wear me out - with some of your statements - - not only with me but I see with plenty of others here - -I think I put my trust in Coach Self a little more then your wisdom.
He sure isn’t as bad of a player as your portraying him out to be - -wanting to compare him with others that aren’t even a playing a position that he would ever play - just nutts to try and make comparsions like that. -you just go ahead and believe your theory and I’ll take mine - it’s America - you have that right. - -I have my right -I’ll take recruiting experts opinions over yours though for sure - - people that get to see – -evaluate - -and who talk with college Coach’s about their opinions of players over yours - -sorry that’s just how it is - - - Again when you have experts saying the kid was UNDER RANKED under radar - ya I’ll believe that a little more - Again Coach didn’t recruit him to sit - -you thinkin his recruiting pitch to Jalen he said - hey come on down - - help with water - - dab the floor -w MYA squeeze you in for 5-6 minutes?
he way you talking he is worse then Braun - -McBride - like the 13th player in a 13 team roster - - ya ok you take that and un with it or just sit back and watch - he WILL play the 3 - an be fine -he WILL get more then your 5-7 minutes - - and KU will be fine - - an w WILL go deeper then 7 players even 8 this yr with this roster and we WILL be fine - -you have a great day - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
