Roster possibilities
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@dylans At least you have no concerns about Braun or Mitch …
The one I think we might be overestimating his immediate impact is Wilson. I could see that not being as soon as some project.
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Wilson is barely a top 50 recruit, those players don’t have a great history of being impact players immediately and sometimes not even an immediate rotation player. If Moss comes to KU, Wilson is likely 5th in the back court rotation and probably a non factor in the rotation unless Self goes 9 deep which I don’t recall him ever doing with consistency.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 in a dire class as well. Normally Wilson would be in the 80-90 range. Still a long term want though.
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BShark said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 in a dire class as well. Normally Wilson would be in the 80-90 range. Still a long term want though.
So Let me ask you this - -and everyone seems to think he will be a non impact player - and you thinking that in a normal class he would be a 80-90 rank player - - Why the hell did I hear Evan Daniels say that Jalen was actually under. ranked player/underrated - - -WHY did I hear Evan Daniels which I consider a pretty solid source say that actually Jalen should of been probably 10-15 spots HIGHER in the ranking - which it that would of been the case would of put him at 35-40 range? - What am I missing? - - what is Evan missing?
Was I on a huge massive Meth high - when Evan was discussing him or What? - Somebody is missing the boat on this kid - - just wondering who. - -Either you guys are missing the boat with him - - OR Evan is - someone let me know so I can figure out what to expect - -Hell I’ll even split the difference and say he is the number 42 1/2 ranked player in the nation. - -But all I’m hearing is how Jalen really isn’t all that - not gonna have any kind of impact – hearing this over and over and over.
I would of thought Evan would have a pretty good read on the kid seeing this is what he does for a living reconizing talent - seeing these kids week end - - week out But guess I’m wrong -huh imagine that lol. I personally myself think Jalen is better then what people are giving him credit for – -I personally think - Jalen is going to have more of an impact then people think he will.
Not really sure why some people want to try and shove him into the two spot so dam hard for - - I think you will see him a hell of a lot more at the Three then the two during the season - for sure he is capable of playing multiple positions - -I just think especially if Moss comes your gonna see Jalen exclusively at the three NOT the two - maybe every one can have a BIG POW WOW and come to mutual agreement where this kid should be ranked and how much impact he will have so the rest of us will know
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@jayballer73 If Moss and Wilson come, KU has a back court of Dotson, Garrett, Agabji, McBride, and Braun along with those two.
Self historically plays a 7-8 man rotation, and Wilson would be the 5th or 6th guard in that rotation. It doesn’t mean he’s a bad player, just means there would be better options ahead of him. In Self’s system, the 2 and the 3 are interchangeable on offense so it doesn’t matter if Wilson is a two or a three, he’s an off ball guard and would be behind Agbaji, Garrett, and Moss in that possible line up.
That equals minimal minutes once Self trimmed the rotation to 7 or 8 players.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 The theory is the 2-3 are interchangeable. That doesn’t mean it is always reality. When WVU ran their press, no way would we rely on Vick to bring the ball up, even though he was a 2/3. And who can forget those wonderful escapades when we tried to play Wayne at the 2…or EJ at the 1? They’re interchangeable only in Bill’s mind. Reality is we can’t have Dotson and two wings in the back court at the same time, imo. We couldn’t run out Dotson/Ochai/Wilson at the same time. It’s not going to work. That’s just not enough ball handling skills for our offense to work effectively. The first time Ochai gets doubled, does he have the ball handling skills to dribble out of it? That’s why I keep saying that Moss is more important than JW for this year. So, here are my scenarios… depending on who we sign:
If we whiff : Dot/MG/Ochai/Silvio/Doke
Moss only: Dot/Moss-MG/Ochai/Silvio/Doke
JW only : Dot/MG/Ochai-JW/Silvio/Doke
Both Moss & JW:
Dot/Moss-MG/Ochai-JW/Silvio/Doke
And it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if JW doesn’t pick up time at the 4… especially if he has challenges guarding on the perimeter ( which would not surprise me ).
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…and this is what happens when you don’t take care of the ball: ( 24 turnovers )
https://big12statistics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/boxscores/20190105_zgwj.xml?view=boxscore
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I think Bill would much rather have two great ball handlers and have the 1/2 be interchangeable.
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@BShark - it almost sounds like KU might acquire a 3 who handle the ball somewhat effectively against any kind of press, to the point of bringing the ball up part way. KU didn’t have that working well last year. Height and/or experience at the 3 has interesting possibilities beyond shooting.
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@KUSTEVE That box score is a crappy example for the point you’re trying to make. The two highest turnover totals were from Vick, a wing, and D. Lawson, a post player. Dotson was third in turnovers that game. The guy who best fits the description as the a 2-3 combo is Garrett who had one turnover.
Also, breaking pressure and running a half court set are not the same and Self does tend to use a second ball handler against teams that pressure a lot when he has that roster flexibility. Marcus Garrett is that flexibility because he is an above average ball handler because he was a PG in HS and I still believe is the best PG on this team.
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Better than Dot??!
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 If Moss and Wilson come, KU has a back court of Dotson, Garrett, Agabji, McBride, and Braun along with those two.
Self historically plays a 7-8 man rotation, and Wilson would be the 5th or 6th guard in that rotation. It doesn’t mean he’s a bad player, just means there would be better options ahead of him. In Self’s system, the 2 and the 3 are interchangeable on offense so it doesn’t matter if Wilson is a two or a three, he’s an off ball guard and would be behind Agbaji, Garrett, and Moss in that possible line up.
That equals minimal minutes once Self trimmed the rotation to 7 or 8 players.
still gonna disagree and say we see him a lot more at the three. - -not competing with Dotson in the as you say back court - -even though he will be playing front line - he is even listed as a 3 SF - -not a 2 - -shooting guard/combo guard. - -your gonna have Moss/Garrett/Agabji - -competing for the 2 in the back court - not Wilson
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@jayballer73 In Self’s offense, the 2 and the 3 serve the same function. If KU lands Moss and Wilson, you will see those two along with Agbaji and Garrett subbed for interchangeably until the rotation is set. Dotson and McBride are the only two back court players who have set positions as lead guards, everyone else is off ball and in Self’s offense, that means they are interchangeable.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 mean very little in today’s game. A 1 is about the only position that you don’t see a lot of interchangeability with. Doke is a rarity in being a true 5 as the rest of KU’s big are variations of 4’s. McCormack and Silvio are traditional 4’s at this point unless Silvio has expanded his range, Mitch is an undersized 4, and Tristan is a stretch 4 in college and wing in the NBA, similar to the role Josh Jackson played at KU. Even between college and NBA, you see a lot of people play different positions like what Tristan will be doing here
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Vick had 7 turnovers in that game. Not what I would call “interchangeable”. To say that Wayne was “interchangeable” with Devonte when Frank was playing point guard is quite a stretch, imo. I’m not trying to be contentious, but theory is one thing, and practical application is another. I don’t think Ochai has a smidgen of the ball handling skills that a Marcus Garrett has, nor do I think JW has the ball handling skills at that level, either. Now, there is absolutely no doubt that both Ochai and JW have much better shooting skills than Marcus…of that I have no doubt. To me, they are wings…and if we try to play them together with Dotson w/o a Marcus or Moss on the floor, we’re going to be in trouble.
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We are building a team of very solid players up and down the roster. What this team lacks (still) is a true difference maker. Maybe Devon becomes that guy. Maybe Agbaji? But likely, KU puts together a very solid team that has issues closing some teams out because they lack a true go to guy.
I worry that unless Devon Dotson becomes something like Sherron Collins, we may be on the verge of witnessing that.
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@justanotherfan Swear I didn’t see this post until after making my last one.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 In Self’s offense, the 2 and the 3 serve the same function. If KU lands Moss and Wilson, you will see those two along with Agbaji and Garrett subbed for interchangeably until the rotation is set. Dotson and McBride are the only two back court players who have set positions as lead guards, everyone else is off ball and in Self’s offense, that means they are interchangeable.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 mean very little in today’s game. A 1 is about the only position that you don’t see a lot of interchangeability with. Doke is a rarity in being a true 5 as the rest of KU’s big are variations of 4’s. McCormack and Silvio are traditional 4’s at this point unless Silvio has expanded his range, Mitch is an undersized 4, and Tristan is a stretch 4 in college and wing in the NBA, similar to the role Josh Jackson played at KU. Even between college and NBA, you see a lot of people play different positions like what Tristan will be doing here
No way McCormack is a 4. You are what you can defend, and he can’t guard 4’s. No way, no how.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
@jayballer73 In Self’s offense, the 2 and the 3 serve the same function. If KU lands Moss and Wilson, you will see those two along with Agbaji and Garrett subbed for interchangeably until the rotation is set. Dotson and McBride are the only two back court players who have set positions as lead guards, everyone else is off ball and in Self’s offense, that means they are interchangeable.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 mean very little in today’s game. A 1 is about the only position that you don’t see a lot of interchangeability with. Doke is a rarity in being a true 5 as the rest of KU’s big are variations of 4’s. McCormack and Silvio are traditional 4’s at this point unless Silvio has expanded his range, Mitch is an undersized 4, and Tristan is a stretch 4 in college and wing in the NBA, similar to the role Josh Jackson played at KU. Even between college and NBA, you see a lot of people play different positions like what Tristan will be doing here
No way McCormack is a 4. You are what you can defend, and he can’t guard 4’s. No way, no how.
I agree Farmer - no way - - shape - - or form is McCormack is nothing but a 5 - pure and simple - -a 4? - - come on man
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Well worth a sub. https://theathletic.com/1021772/2019/06/12/after-adding-jalen-wilson-bill-self-explains-his-plan-for-kansas-in-2019-20/
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Well worth a sub. https://theathletic.com/1021772/2019/06/12/after-adding-jalen-wilson-bill-self-explains-his-plan-for-kansas-in-2019-20/
Oh my, this is quality content from CJ. As expected but still.
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
Well worth a sub. https://theathletic.com/1021772/2019/06/12/after-adding-jalen-wilson-bill-self-explains-his-plan-for-kansas-in-2019-20/
Oh my, this is quality content from CJ. As expected but still.
The way Bill talks about Silvio
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Fine by me. The way the transfer market works I’d rather hold it for a midyear transfer or reclass
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BShark said:
just kinda of what I’m thinking - mentioned that I thought I just have a feel they gonna tuck it away. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Fine by me. The way the transfer market works I’d rather hold it for a midyear transfer or reclass
YA I know it’s probably insane to think of this possibly happening now but - I was thinking the only way that they might use it would be if somehow - -some way we got Kyree to re-classify and he could get him self qualified to re-classify - and the real possibility committing to KU.
I was thinking that would be the only way they would use it now - -would be for Kyree. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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All I get out of it is Mr. Bill isn’t finished yet.
After last year you can never plan ahead too much or be too deep.
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@rockchalkwyo Who would we go after though?
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Not a lot of minutes left to spread around. What do you offer a top player?
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You always monitor and keep in touch with guys. Best case is you land a case like Joey Baker, a top 25 (I think?) kid who wanted to RS instead of go to high school another year.
