Please recruit players that are capable of being good at everything
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@kjayhawks look guys…this “we can’t recruit like Duke” logic is irrelevant. We need to recruit well enough to win. UCF recruited well enough to win, they just got screwed. UVA has recruited well enough to win.
Why do we need flawed players? The only reasons I can come up with are:
- self likes personalities, flaws be damned
- self thinks the sum of his flawed players is greater than the sum of players that aren’t elite at one thing but aren’t bad at anything. That’s where I disagree
- self is making sacrifices in his recruiting in order to win now without ever experiencing significant let down.
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Are we overthinking this years issues though? We finally had a team that bent and broke. We took for granted how many times self has glued together the sum of his parts to make a successful season. Finally enough upperclassmen were injured or no longer with the team that it left a huge leadership and experience void.
We undervalued just how much Self catered his entire offseason and approach to the season on having a healthy Doke. Early Season Vick was POY good, just like his Jr year started. This time he finally broke and ended up home without finishing his season here no senior night, no post season grind with his teammates. I dont know what coach survives two of his top 3 players not being able to play. In my opinion Silvio made 3 of his top 4. We still won 26 games. Pretty crazy. It was a disappointing season at different parts but I do think considering how much was missing from the roster it’s amazing to think we could even win that many games.
I have been saying this for years, I would like just one season where KU starts and finishes with its entire roster. Something has to give, it’s not coincidence anymore
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@BeddieKU23 I really think this year was a matter of KU being an extremely inexperienced team, especially once Doke and Vick were out of the picture. At that point, KU was down to 9 scholarship players and 7 of them were in their first year playing for KU.
We saw the lack of chemistry 4 and 5 years ago when KU also lost 10 and 9 games those seasons. It just takes time to develop that chemistry. Sometimes it clicks right away, sometimes it doesn’t.
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@BeddieKU23 of the 3 you mentioned, Silvio was the player with the most upside. But had Vick and Doke played,would we be talking about how Doke can’t shoot FTs and can’t guard mobile bigs? Would we be talking about how Vick is a headcase? I’ve got to go with yes and yes. They’re exploitable weaknesses. It’s still unlikely we win a championship with those guys.
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@BeddieKU23 Right … We should all not forget that it is entirely possible that right now, KU is undefeated if we have our entire team - Doke, SDS, and Vick. Certainly ready to kick Duke’s a**.
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All good points. We are still talking about over 30 points missing from the lineup. A guy that despite some weaknesses made over 70% of his field goals and gave this team an above the rim presence every possession on offense as well as that big body and defensive presence. Vick was flirting with near 50% shooting from 3, a guy that could make tough guarded shots and was yet another athlete missing. Silvio, while raw was a rim running rebounding machine that had a real competitive streak to him. When your 5th, 6th, 7th 8th guys become part of your top 5 it’s never going to end well.
I think it was clear early we probably were not a championship team. I did hope by end of season chemistry and roles worked themselves out but I doubt this is a 2nd round exit type team with those guys. We probably don’t end with a 4 seed and we probably would have won #15. Of course none of that matters now.
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Definitely chemistry lacked. It even lacked with the veterans early in the year. Having young guys in big roles made it difficult to have the season we hoped and had come to expect, take for granted. The hope is those young pups will develop the chemistry for next year and the following year after that. Not sure I’m that optimistic it will happen without seeing what the final roster looks like for next year. I think Self needs to find a few veterans on the transfer market to mesh with the younger guys
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If we had all of those guys we still have a tragically flawed headcase as one of our two reliable 3 point threats in Vick, the other being Dotson. I’m sorry, but assuming we’d go undefeated is fan fiction.
Still thin at guard, with Agbaji a redshirt and Charlie a black hole of awful. Playing a high low with Mitch (I would hope but can’t be certain of) as the 4th big? And we are somehow going to guard the perimeter better?
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@approxinfinity Having a healthy Doke all season allows Lawson to play his natural spot and KU to dominate in the paint as teams scheme to stop either Doke or Lawson, but not both.
I’ll agree no chance this team would’ve gone undefeated, but I could easily see KU only dropping 4 or 5 games and running away with the conference. I don’t know if they beat Arizona State regardless because that’s a game KU has historically struggled in. I also don’t know if KU beats Kentucky at Rupp this year either. KU probably has a couple of clunkers in B12 play and likely win 15 or 16 B12 games.
A healthy KU is a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament this season and one of the title favorites because of their neutral court wins over MSU, Marquette, and Tennessee.
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@approxinfinity “Entirely possible that … KU is undefeated” vs “assuming we’d go undefeated” are very much different.
It is certainly possible. And not in lightning strike sense.
We won every game with Doke playing full speed. Add SDS and no one … not Duke, not UNC, no one … could match up with us. The assumption is that we would have a functional Vick as well.
I think there is a significant fiction that the game has now completely changed. You can win with big players. Imagine Dotson if he actually had a functioning front line? There is more than one way to win.
So anyone that says “no chance” (@Texas-Hawk-10) is living in that speculative dreamworld of absolutism that impedes open thought.
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@HighEliteMajor There hasn’t been an undefeated team in over 40 years. Kentucky in 2015 is the closest we’ll see to a team going undefeated in this era of college basketball and even that team couldn’t do it. Too many things have to go right over 40 games for it to happen in this era.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 So you’re saying there is no chance? I mean, of course, given that it just happened a few years ago. Slim chance? Ok.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@approxinfinity “Entirely possible that … KU is undefeated” vs “assuming we’d go undefeated” are very much different.
Fair.
We won every game with Doke playing full speed. Add SDS and no one … not Duke, not UNC, no one … could match up with us.
3 > 2. Someone could most certainly match up with us. They just would have to shoot well.
The assumption is that we would have a functional Vick as well.
Having a functional Vick is imo like saying “having a Doke that can shoot FTs and guard the 3”. You’re saying “but without his tragic flaw”.
I think there is a significant fiction that the game has now completely changed. You can win with big players. Imagine Dotson if he actually had a functioning front line? There is more than one way to win.
I can appreciate this. But we still can’t shoot well.
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I get why Bill assembled the roster he did, I think. I can see how the pieces fit. But when every year one piece or two we need doesn’t develop or gets injured or ineligible isn’t it a fair question why we have unique pieces and don’t build redundancy into the system?
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Get the pogo stick bigs that shoot threes and get beat up on the block - lose when the threes stop falling.
Get the bruiser bigs and struggle guarding the three - lose to a hot three point shooting team.
Pick your poison.
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@dylans except that i would hardly call any of our bigs bruiser bigs once Doke went down.
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@HighEliteMajor It didn’t happen a few years ago though. Kentucky even in the most ideal of circumstances couldn’t pull off a perfect season with a much better roster than what KU would’ve had this year fully loaded with SDS and a weaker SEC than the Big 12 was this year. Only 5 of 14 SEC teams made the NCAA tournament that year and only Kentucky was a top 4 seed and only Arkansas was even a top 8 seed among the other 4 teams.
5 of the 6 teams Kentucky played twice in league play that year were bottom half of the SEC teams. This was the Kentucky team that held Kansas to 40 points in a game.
That was the most ideal of circumstances for a team to go undefeated and if that Kentucky team couldn’t do it, there’s nothing that can convince me any team can go undefeated in D1 men’s college basketball for an entire season and finish 40-0.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 No, it did. I was referring to KU being undefeated at this point. You didn’t taketime to read what I wrote. I said it is “entirely possible that RIGHT NOW, KU is undefeated …” We’re at the sweet 16.
@approxinfinity I can kind of grant you the Vick point. But he did function sufficiently last season (17-18). That Vick would have been at least passable.
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Hurt didn’t mention any visit to Memphis yesterday to the media. This was one of the first time’s Matthew has actually spoken to the media this year and from what I read into his comments KU is still sitting in a good spot. The role he wants is here. Dedric just put up 20 and 10 in that role. You can run the 4 out with him as he’ll put tremendous pressure on opposing teams to guard him. Not many teams are going to have that option. He has some limitations just like Dedric but he’s a legitimate elite shooter, something this team desperately needs
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approxinfinity said:
If we had all of those guys we still have a tragically flawed headcase as one of our two reliable 3 point threats in Vick, the other being Dotson. I’m sorry, but assuming we’d go undefeated is fan fiction.
Still thin at guard, with Agbaji a redshirt and Charlie a black hole of awful. Playing a high low with Mitch (I would hope but can’t be certain of) as the 4th big? And we are somehow going to guard the perimeter better?
That’s one way to look at it and I agree certain aspects of players were not going to change. Vick would have been the 3rd option though behind the post players. He seemed to implode right around the time all the pressure was on him to be the “guy” besides Lawson. Maybe he keeps it together just enough being that 3rd option. I don’t know, we don’t know all his issues. Vick was never an outspoken leader, he never thrived in that role. Doke was the leader of this team and his presence on the court changed a lot of things for KU. Without him that pressure went to Dedric who did an admiral job but we all saw how much he needed a robin to compliment him. Dotson stepped up big time in trying to pick up that role. I haven’t been this impressed with a freshman since 2008.
I don’t think we go undefeated either. Probably a 4 to 5 loss team though which is half of what we ended up with. That’s #1 seed or a high #2 seed territory.
If De Sousa was available that would have changed a lot of roles. There would have been no drop off to going to him off the bench imo which wasn’t the case going to Mitch and later David. The guard rotation was still a mess. Charlie and KJ even with the sit out year played like Freshman for almost the entire season. Garrett didn’t improve his shot, Grimes couldn’t piss in an ocean outside of a handful of games.
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approxinfinity said:
I get why Bill assembled the roster he did, I think. I can see how the pieces fit. But when every year one piece or two we need doesn’t develop or gets injured or ineligible isn’t it a fair question why we have unique pieces and don’t build redundancy into the system?
It is a fair question. Not much we can do at this point about the guys already in the system. The coaching staff has a ton of work to do this off-season in player and skill development.
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@approxinfinity DeSousa…oh yeah. Um McCormack?
Wright, Arthur types are en vogue now, so Nike gets them.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 No, it did. I was referring to KU being undefeated at this point. You didn’t taketime to read what I wrote. I said it is “entirely possible that RIGHT NOW, KU is undefeated …” We’re at the sweet 16.
I misinterpreted what you said.
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@dylans ok, yeah if they were healthy and eligible, Doke, De Sousa and McCormack are a punishing line up. However, I don’t think of De Sousa and McCormack as bruisers. They both have face up game, and they can move well enough to guard the perimeter. I don’t see them as having a critical flaw like Doke. They are pogo stick and bruiser in one.
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@approxinfinity We have to take the guys with personalities because they are the only talented guys left. UCF competed with Dook in one game, dook smokes them 9 of 10 times. UCF hasn’t made the dance since 05 before this season and I bet they don’t again for a several years after next season when most of these guys are gone. The little teams have been better recently because guys stay 4 years and can be groomed for a good junior and senior season.
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I don’t know. UVA won the ACC four of the last 6 years. Yes, last year they lost first round. Why? They didn’t shoot the 3 enough, and they didn’t have redundancy in the athleticism department and Hunter went down . Both things have been corrected. Keenly watching their success this post season. If their system can translate to post season success, I will be looking if they can maintain a lack of critical flaws with the talent they recruit.
