The Disappointment.
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BeddieKU23 said:
From my memory of the Cliff Alexander recruitment Self was accused by other schools (fans) etc for how he was able to secure his commitment. The term Dollar Bill has been a popular one over the years
Oh, you would not believe how often I have heard that here in Michigan from MSU fans. Some seem to think that Cliff was bound for MSU until we swept in and paid him. One local radio guy in particular rails on that topic. And then Josh spurned MSU and playing with his buddy from Flint…that was the topper. People here swear that Izzo and Belein have nothing to do with Shoe money.
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@Hawk8086 Yeah, so far as we know Izzo only provided cover for several criminals.
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@mayjay Cover up some rapes here and there. Nbd.
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Maybe it’s that way everywhere? Maybe everyone is doing it? Just saying guys.
Is it unreasonable?
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If KU covered up a rape I’d be out until that coach was out.
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@BShark there was one that happened at the dorm…
I’m not accusing anyone here. I’m simply asking a question. With everything else that ppl think goes on and maybe does go on under the table…
Is it unreasonable to begin to wonder about things like that?
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@cragarhawk I don’t think Self would cover up a rape, He didn’t cover up Braggs deal and even sat him til he was proven innocent. Their only a few matters that come to mind of hiding stuff. Jackson’s kicking of Vick’s ex GFs car after she threw drinks at them, not that I agree with that action but I would say that’s definitely not in the same category as rape. The episode of Vick’s GF saying he pushed her a few back wasn’t given light til well after but records they both called each other in several times for similar reasons. Hardly makes it pass but sounds like a lotta he said, she said in a toxic relationship. Man I hope Vick is single haha…
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I don’t think that either. It’s a simple question. Is the thought entering your mind unreasonable. I think if you believe other things you see and hear you can at least say it isn’t unreasonable to wonder.
The truth is this. If you are capable of covering up some things, then nobody knows how far youre willing to go. Nobody but you knows how honest you really are. Or what you’re capable of. And it is not unreasonable after that… To wonder
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Considering all the details have come out over the years like @kjayhawks said I would like to think Self wouldn’t do that. Kjay even didn’t mention some like Tharpe having sex on the court or w/e that was and the Morris twins with the bb gun.
Covering up a rape is a lot different than getting players paid I think. But I wouldn’t say the question is invalid.
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@BShark absolutely agree. It’s on an exponentially different level in my opinion. But the point is well seen. Whenever ya find out things weren’t as you thought they were, it suddenly isn’t unreasonable to start wondering about all things.
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We know that a football player was kicked out for sexual assault but you’d have to be not only a terrible person for covering it up but to risk anything for a player on a team that sucks that day for would be one of the flatout stupidest things I could recall of hearing.
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@kjayhawks okay. But the basketball team doesn’t suck. And after all… That’s all any KU fan really cares about right? Winning? Even if we have to do what everyone else does…
You see. Once you start to decide what’s okay and what’s not. What’s gray and what’s not on the integrity front… it can take ya just about anywhere
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@cragarhawk I think the integrity of paying players under the table is a little different than covering up your players that have raped individuals. Just because someone doesn’t pay taxes on there income from side work doesn’t make them a rapist too. One is arguably a victimless crime while one is clearly not.
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If you all want a list of clean programs you’d rather root for, PM me and I’ll give it to you. It’s pretty short. Now that all this is coming out it’s kind of a relief for us who’ve seen it firsthand to be like hey you all guess what? Big time college athletics aren’t immune from economics either!
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@kjayhawks whether or not its different is not in dispute, and in fact had already been stated.
You’re missing the point. Once someone is dishonest with you about even the smallest of things… you absolutely will begin to question the largest of things. Human nature. If you don’t know this already brother. I sincerely hope and pray that you never first hand find out.
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@cragarhawk right, I just don’t like the idea of jumping to conclusions on something that isn’t related.
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@kjayhawks know the difference… Nobody jumped to any conclusion.
Asking questions. Wondering. Not the same. Not a conclusion. And not unreasonable. Attack the tree at the root, not the branch.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@DoubleDD If only it were the end of the discussion …
You said, “Sadly KU fans as a whole feel the same way as you @HighEliteMajor. They want all this greatness but by following the rules.”
Yea, quite the unreasonable demand. Integrity. Honesty. Pie in the sky stuff.
Not sure why I should be disappointed in myself. I’m not a liar and a cheater.
Yet you’ll be the first one leading the charge of getting a KU HC getting fired if they don’t deliver on the court.
You expect a KU Coach to play by the rules and deliver Final 4’s and NC’s year after year. Not one time will you say, “but they play by the rules”.
What you don’t think Duke, Kentucky, and UNC don’t cheat? Yet you expect a KU HC to play by the rules yet stay on top of the College basketball world.
Who is a head case here?
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mayjay said:
@Hawk8086 Yeah, so far as we know Izzo only provided cover for several criminals.
I agree, but you would still think he was Saint Izzo by listening to people here.
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@DoubleDD Perhaps you. If others were cheating, because the professor was lax in paying attention during an exam, does that then justify you cheating as well to keep up (assuming the class is graded on a curve)? If so, why? If not, why not? What action would you take with this knowledge?
And I would not make assumptions about what I’d say. I expect KU’s coach to play by the rules. Period. And if others are breaking the rules, then to take action to help ensure rules enforcement. You’re thinking like a cheater.
It’s not hard:
KC Star Reporter Jesse Newell: Coach, there have been major questions about KU’s recruiting. Why are we missing on top players?
Self: Because we won’t pay players.
Newell: What? Others are paying players.
Self: They are. Nike gave a kid $80,000 to go to Duke. We were given a chance to match. We said no. A UK booster bought a kid’s mom a car. We won’t do that. I know we love coach Roy around here, but UNC arranged a payment of $50,000 to the guardian of a they guy we just missed on.
See, cat out of the bag. Integrity. Or, one chooses to play the game.
I know which Bill Self I’d prefer.
We’ll see how this plays out now that the cat have been publicly and painfully forced out of the bag. Remember that – forced out. None of this is voluntary now.
@cragarhawk You said, “You’re missing the point. Once someone is dishonest with you about even the smallest of things… you absolutely will begin to question the largest of things. Human nature. If you don’t know this already brother. I sincerely hope and pray that you never first hand find out.”
Excellent.
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Fan fiction.
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Integrity and honesty are easier than you think.
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You’re insane if you think this…
“Self: They are. Nike gave a kid $80,000 to go to Duke. We were given a chance to match. We said no. A UK booster bought a kid’s mom a car. We won’t do that. I know we love coach Roy around here, but UNC arranged a payment of $50,000 to the guardian of a they guy we just missed on.”
Would ever be said. I don’t think you are insane.
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That’s true. It would probably never be said. But why not? Maybe it should be. Perhaps it’s time it came to that. I mean everyone wants to blame the evil organization right? Expose them for what they are.
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@mayjay like your statement about “consistent with guilt and inconsistent with innocence.” Never heard that but completely understand the importance of context.
