Once again - add De Sousa and I'll agree with you.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark Can you name one three point shooter that you expect to be above 37% … that’s my quandary. I can’t.
Udoka
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@jaybate-1.0 KU should also be a much better defensive team because other than Moore, KU is going to have good length this year. That’s going to equal a lower shooting percentage from 3 for opponents. KU’s 3 point defense wasn’t horrible last year as opponents only made 33% of their 3 pointers against KU. I don’t think it’s unrealistic that KU holds opponents under 30% next season.
So while 3>2 is true, 3 at 33% loses against 2 at 50% every time. KU is probably going to have one of the best 2FG% in the country next season and with KU shaping up to be a very salty defensive team, I’ll take KU 2 over opposing 3’s next season.
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@Statmachine A perfect 0-0 for three on the season I assume?
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To dream of defending our way to a ring in the 3pt era is a pleasant past time, but do not mistake the dream for reality.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
To dream of defending our way to a ring in the 3pt era is a pleasant past time, but do not mistake the dream for reality.
It literally happened a year ago.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-carolina/2017.html
And they played Gonzaga in the final, the #1 defensive team that year.
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@Statmachine he didn’t say “free point shooter”
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@approxinfinity good one!
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I think Udoka will do better than 37% from the free point line
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OK, I’ll play along.
Did you mean UNC have no three point shooters that could make > 37% from trifectaville?
Is that what you mean?
Or do you just mean they were a fine defensive team that had three point shooting KU will lack?
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@jaybate-1.0 They had two okay three point shooters, just like KU will have next year. One right at 37%, the other at 38%. To go along with this they defended and had a solid 4 man post rotation.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark Can you name one three point shooter that you expect to be above 37% … that’s my quandary. I can’t.
Mitch certainly will be over that.
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@JayHawkFanToo Agreed … Mitch’s PT next season is a topic to watch.
@BShark @jaybate-1-0 We can win without high level three point shooting. Definitely. But one thing for everyone to remember – Self is different now. He’s accepted the three. He has seen the proverbial light. I expect it to be incorporated much more so than it had been our prior post-first teams. The fool’s gold talk is dead.
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BShark said:
@jaybate-1.0 They had two okay three point shooters, just like KU will have next year. One right at 37%, the other at 38%. To go along with this they defended and had a solid 4 man post rotation.
Okay, your hypothesis crosses the first obstacle. Congratulations. I am stoked for you. One more hurdle cleared and you can add me to the choir.
Next hurdle: the year you say the EasyHeels defended their ways to a ring, did UNC have to face an opponent from the Sweet 16 onwards that was from the EST and that had from three to six > 39% trifectates?
If they beat a team or two from the EST with three to six > greater than 39% treys shooters, I am going to say I will join the baritones, even if the opponent did not have any bigs that could pot the triceratops.
I mean if Roy can defend his way to a ring without any >39% trifectates, and beat an opponent or two in the Sweet 16 and above that had 3 to 6 > 39% trifectates, then this defensive dog will hunt, and I will dawn a crimson and blue shooting vest with an XL game bag.
You will absolutely make my day, if you discover the facts will support your hypothesis.
No one is better at scheming DEFENSES than Bill Self, so if Roy did it, against the kind of Sweet 16-and-up opponents I have outlined, then I think you are on the money with this hypothesis of yours.
I am actually getting kind of excited about this.
I have been feeling pretty glum lately about the lack of three ballers on our roster, because I figure Villanova will field a bare minimum of 3 > 39% trifectates, plus some of their 75-100 ranked bigs that can mysteriously guard and run the floor and rebound and shoot like Top 25 players.
I know this would take a lot of clicking on your part to discover the answers to my question, and so I am hardly expecting you to go to the trouble.
But even though I have some optimism that the facts might fall in your favor, until I see them, I remain my typical wait and see self.
I would do the leg work myself, but I am unusually occupied for the next month or so.
Here’s to hoping we can defend our way to a ring next season.
Rock Chalk!
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@jaybate-1.0 ah luck of the draw. If the pre-season #1 team doesn’t stand a chance who does? Time for optimism, the future is very bright!
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark @jaybate-1-0 We can win without high level three point shooting. Definitely. But one thing for everyone to remember – Self is different now. He’s accepted the three. He has seen the proverbial light. I expect it to be incorporated much more so than it had been our prior post-first teams. The fool’s gold talk is dead.
We can win pre-conference and conference without it, but the odds appear very slim that we can win a ring without it, if other Top Ten teams get stocked up with 3-6 trifectates, as Nova likely will be again. And if Nova has 2 bigs again that can shoot > 39$% from three (which I have not heard forecasts of one way or the other), it just seems effectively impossible to defend our way to a ring.
Roy was very lucky to appear to be the EST team selected to win the ring the season he did, when Nova hit a snag, the other apparent pre-selects ran into difficulties with their OAD stock ups and with injuries and eligibilities, as I recall.
Didn’t Roy have one of his weakest shooting rosters in his tenure at Easy Hill that year? And it faced the first real post hyper dump truck Carney field. He was very fortunate to show up with his apparent usual dump truck load of bigs, when distribution asymmetry was apparently being revised and an anomalous number of highly athletic > 39% 3 point shooters at post and perimeter were being remarkably ranked 75-100 and routed to Villanova for “development.”
Its hard for moi to imagine that not one of the elite EST teams will round up at least 3 > 39% trifectates and maybe one > 39% big, after what Jay and Nova showed happens when 3 is feasibly greater than 2 on a regular basis.
And if one is from the CST and has to depend on the kindness of referees to supply the foul calls necessary for short treys? Woe, woe, woe, is thee.
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I’ll get this out of the way now, the answer is technically no, due to your very specific restraints. However…they did beat teams with great three point shooting.
So, I’m not sure why the EST caveat matters. They had to beat Oregon, the beloved of Nike, who had 3 heavy minute players that were above 40% from three, and a bench player as well.
Gonzaga, who they played in the final, had 6 rotation players at or above 39%, but again west coast.
They also beat UK’s NBA factory, but with only 1 40% trey baller in Monk.
Oddly enough, Villanova with a similar team between their title teams lost to Wisconsin in the second round. Go figure.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark @jaybate-1-0 We can win without high level three point shooting. Definitely. But one thing for everyone to remember – Self is different now. He’s accepted the three. He has seen the proverbial light. I expect it to be incorporated much more so than it had been our prior post-first teams. The fool’s gold talk is dead.
We can win pre-conference and conference without it, but the odds appear very slim that we can win a ring without it, if other Top Ten teams get stocked up with 3-6 trifectates, as Nova likely will be again. And if Nova has 2 bigs again that can shoot > 39$% from three (which I have not heard forecasts of one way or the other), it just seems effectively impossible to defend our way to a ring.
Roy was very lucky to appear to be the EST team selected to win the ring the season he did, when Nova hit a snag, the other apparent pre-selects ran into difficulties with their OAD stock ups and with injuries and eligibilities, as I recall.
Didn’t Roy have one of his weakest shooting rosters in his tenure at Easy Hill that year? And it faced the first real post hyper dump truck Carney field. He was very fortunate to show up with his apparent usual dump truck load of bigs, when distribution asymmetry was apparently being revised and an anomalous number of highly athletic > 39% 3 point shooters at post and perimeter were being remarkably ranked 75-100 and routed to Villanova for “development.”
Its hard for moi to imagine that not one of the elite EST teams will round up at least 3 > 39% trifectates and maybe one > 39% big, after what Jay and Nova showed happens when 3 is feasibly greater than 2 on a regular basis.
And if one is from the CST and has to depend on the kindness of referees to supply the foul calls necessary for short treys? Woe, woe, woe, is thee.
So much fiction.
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dylans said:
@jaybate-1.0 ah luck of the draw. If the pre-season #1 team doesn’t stand a chance who does? Time for optimism, the future is very bright!
I appreciate and am grateful for your optimism. It brightens my day.
But when KU is ranked this high, has an FBI cloud overhanging it, and can’t sign a single >39% three point shooter to go along with the bunch of studs it has on hand, I grow suspicious.
I wonder…
"Where have all the trifectates gone
Long time passing…
Where have all the trifectates gone
long time ago
When will they ever learn…
Oh…when will they…ever learn?"
Or to put it another way, hey, boys, thar’s threes in them thar hills beyond the treys tripe. What are ya a-pannin’ fer twos down here in the paint for? Don’t make no sense to me. ‘Specially when yer from the wrong time zone to be uh gettin’ foul called in the Carney!
Just think how much ranking KU #1 preseason might help with bet balancing.
Rank Nova numero uno at the start and you have a bunch of weeks where the entire east seaboard full of suckers are betting on Nova and you’ve got to massively increase the payoff to get any money at all bet against them. But with KU ranked #1, well, a bunch of the EST suckers bet on the sod busters in covered wagons, plus a bunch more is bet on KU, which hasn’t even got a 3 point shooter, so it figures KU will get clipped on any opponent’s hot night. The insider, er, smart money then gets to shear sheep on both Nova games and KU games, instead of just one, or the other.
Shaping improbable bettor expectations appears quite useful to profit maximization in the big gaming.
Inefficient markets are the gift from god to insider, er, smart money.
Bettors are a market.
The more inefficient they are in their expectations, the bettor, if the insider, er, smart money is around to balance bets wisely.
Or so it appears to little ol’ layman fan me.
Hopefully we are beyond the naivety of years gone by when board rats believed there was no channelling of players going on and believed the nonsense about big gaming wanting a fair game.
The profit motive is inelastic.
Enough is never enough.
The above is entirely speculation and opining, and nothing more.
Rock Chalk.
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BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark @jaybate-1-0 We can win without high level three point shooting. Definitely. But one thing for everyone to remember – Self is different now. He’s accepted the three. He has seen the proverbial light. I expect it to be incorporated much more so than it had been our prior post-first teams. The fool’s gold talk is dead.
We can win pre-conference and conference without it, but the odds appear very slim that we can win a ring without it, if other Top Ten teams get stocked up with 3-6 trifectates, as Nova likely will be again. And if Nova has 2 bigs again that can shoot > 39$% from three (which I have not heard forecasts of one way or the other), it just seems effectively impossible to defend our way to a ring.
Roy was very lucky to appear to be the EST team selected to win the ring the season he did, when Nova hit a snag, the other apparent pre-selects ran into difficulties with their OAD stock ups and with injuries and eligibilities, as I recall.
Didn’t Roy have one of his weakest shooting rosters in his tenure at Easy Hill that year? And it faced the first real post hyper dump truck Carney field. He was very fortunate to show up with his apparent usual dump truck load of bigs, when distribution asymmetry was apparently being revised and an anomalous number of highly athletic > 39% 3 point shooters at post and perimeter were being remarkably ranked 75-100 and routed to Villanova for “development.”
Its hard for moi to imagine that not one of the elite EST teams will round up at least 3 > 39% trifectates and maybe one > 39% big, after what Jay and Nova showed happens when 3 is feasibly greater than 2 on a regular basis.
And if one is from the CST and has to depend on the kindness of referees to supply the foul calls necessary for short treys? Woe, woe, woe, is thee.
So much fiction.
Truth is routinely stranger than fiction and so those invested in believing in fictions use “so much fiction” as a lame rhetorical cloud of squid ink, don’t you agree?
Oh, wait, I forgot. I apologize. There is no channeling of players and big gaming wants a fair game, right? That is what you appear to be asserting. I am just saying, both things are starting to quack like ducks, so we’ll have to wait and see. But I sure wouldn’t want to be defending your position. I am blessed to be discussing appearances with a wait and see attitude about what the actual realities are that come out.
You, however, are stuck polishing “so much fiction.” Not much wiggle room there, is there?
Good luck.
Howling!
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@jaybate-1.0 Instead of giving Jay Wright credit for identifying talent you work under the assumption that it is fed to him and that there is some sort of global ranking conspiracy*. The truth is he finds players that fit his system, and are willing to be around for multiple years.
*Yes yes, conspiracies are for suckers, which sounds odd coming from someone that routinely posts conspiracy theories as fact.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark @jaybate-1-0 We can win without high level three point shooting. Definitely. But one thing for everyone to remember – Self is different now. He’s accepted the three. He has seen the proverbial light. I expect it to be incorporated much more so than it had been our prior post-first teams. The fool’s gold talk is dead.
We can win pre-conference and conference without it, but the odds appear very slim that we can win a ring without it, if other Top Ten teams get stocked up with 3-6 trifectates, as Nova likely will be again. And if Nova has 2 bigs again that can shoot > 39$% from three (which I have not heard forecasts of one way or the other), it just seems effectively impossible to defend our way to a ring.
Roy was very lucky to appear to be the EST team selected to win the ring the season he did, when Nova hit a snag, the other apparent pre-selects ran into difficulties with their OAD stock ups and with injuries and eligibilities, as I recall.
Didn’t Roy have one of his weakest shooting rosters in his tenure at Easy Hill that year? And it faced the first real post hyper dump truck Carney field. He was very fortunate to show up with his apparent usual dump truck load of bigs, when distribution asymmetry was apparently being revised and an anomalous number of highly athletic > 39% 3 point shooters at post and perimeter were being remarkably ranked 75-100 and routed to Villanova for “development.”
Its hard for moi to imagine that not one of the elite EST teams will round up at least 3 > 39% trifectates and maybe one > 39% big, after what Jay and Nova showed happens when 3 is feasibly greater than 2 on a regular basis.
And if one is from the CST and has to depend on the kindness of referees to supply the foul calls necessary for short treys? Woe, woe, woe, is thee.
So much fiction.
Truth is routinely stranger than fiction and so those invested in believing in fictions use “so much fiction” as a lame rhetorical cloud of squid ink, don’t you agree?
Oh, wait, I forgot. I apologize. There is no channeling of players and big gaming wants a fair game, right? That is what you appear to be asserting. I am just saying, both things are starting to quack like ducks, so we’ll have to wait and see. But I sure wouldn’t want to be defending your position. I am blessed to be discussing appearances with a wait and see attitude about what the actual realities are that come out.
You, however, are stuck polishing “so much fiction.” Not much wiggle room there, is there?
Good luck.
Howling!
If the outcome of sporting events are predetermined, why even watch?
Let’s see if everyone starts copying Villanova. Seems more likely that most programs just take what they can get. Even Duke, ran by long time 3pt aficionado coach K had a rough trey balling team last year. I think coaches run into trouble when they just start trying to take the highest ranked players, instead of looking for players that fit their system, defend and can shoot.
I did not say players were not paid. They definitely are.
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@BShark I would add players that can be coached to that list
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark I would add players that can be coached to that list
This is pretty big. Just looking at it from a KU angle guys like Releford, Garrett, Darnell etc…
Then the counter point of Zach Peters, Rio Adams, Naadir Tharpe, Brannen Greene, Carlton Bragg…
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Good to see SDS getting in some work.
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Lagerald should spend the next 4 months working on becoming a true sharpshooter and work it out with Bill to return.
He could have a freakish year nailing treys and he’d potentially go high up on the draft board if he can do this (he can).
If I was Lagerald, I’d contact John Lucas and see if he can squeeze in some time in Houston over the summer.
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Mitch is gonna be a beast this fall!
The kid can shoot too. Granted he didn’t do it much but if he says his more normal position is SF then I have to believe he can bring a trey gun. Would he be the biggest SF we have had at KU? 6’8" 230 by fall, from what he was saying, is a goal of his.
Peeps on here have been lamenting our lack of trey shooters on this team. I think Mitch can bring that.
I am purely speculating but I think that Grimes and Dotson will be pretty good shooters from deep and I bet Garrett and Cunliffe will surprise us as will Charlie Moore.
We will have options is what Im trying to say.
Then add to it the deepest front court since 08.
