Has our fanbase really got to this point?
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Let me say right off before - – some people in here get their panties all twisted up in a knot , this thread is NOT about people/fans in here. This thread is in response to other forums that I read. So that is my question - -have the fans gotten to the point?
The point is we have some and their thread was titled " If Zenger makes the call would Marshall answer? "
People that make statements or ask a question like that are they really serious? - -are they that twisted? - Dilusional? I mean come on , let’s be real here. So what your saying is because of the way things are playing out that you think it’s time to change Coach"s ? -A hall of fame Coach who If I remember right has the highest winning pct of any coach we have had isn’t he? - A Coach who has won 13 straight conference championships , has been a part of this program going to 28 straight NCAA tourney’s - -a Coach who has been a part of keeping this program ranked in the top 25 for GOD knows how many straight weeks - -and your telling me that we as a fan base have the chones to even think about forcing him out? - -ya? - -we that’s what we really want to do? - - Are their people really that sick? - -moronic? -brain dead? - I certainly hope there isn’t any in here with that train of thought.
I know that their are some here that think I feel that way- -but those some couldn’t be further off then saying they was taking the next space shuttle to the space station. - Ya I’m rabid, - -ya I get really hot , ya I spew things out of my mouth during the heat of a game – -BUT - -if ANYONE thinks I’m riding a horse that would be in favor of forcing/firing Coach Self , – then your just a plain fricken idiot - -and the nicest way I can say it - -not the way I would like to say it but I would refrain from that.
Like yesterday - -I was hot , but by far NOT the only one on the Slack site where we talk during the game. - -Having said that at no point yesterday or any other game where we have sucked have I EVER given any thought about firing Coach Self - that crap is just so far out in left field it would take forever to get the ball back in to home plate – -I mean come on - -holy shit crap.
After having time to cool down and then watch other games later I tried to really stop and think better - -with a more cool head. - -Bottom line is I think quite possibly just a combination of things. # 1 is obviously we have taken a step back to an extent this year we have fell back to the pack to a certain degree this year - - not as talented as in years past , we lost ALOT last year. - -The POY Frank and his toughness ( mental & Physical ) -and a top 5 NBA pick - -& then as much as many don’t want to acknowledge we lost a solid study big man not flashy not gawdy numbers but yet a solid rebounder and scored ( Landen )
Y ou put the above that I mentioned with # 2 and that is that in reality this league is brutal , there are no given W’s on any day or night like there use to be. You can’t go down the schedule anymore and say OH well there is a win. - -We just beating the hell out of one another. So you combine those two together , to go along with our depth issue , and some players inconsistency - -this is the result period.
It’s not the result of Coaching , ya sure the recruiting class for this season wasn’t the best - we have had some situations Billy leaving , and having to try and get Silvio which we can see is not going to really help this season much if at all -Bill missing out on some targets but with what he has this year – -18-5 tied for the lead is not that bad and we still have just a good of chance to win this title yet again this year as any of the other 9
Yet to think there are some that think we should fire/replace/force - -Coach Self out? - -Then you need help - -serious help. - -You want him out - so who you gonna replace him with that would do any better with this current roster? - -Look at what we got coming in next year - -he isn’t getting the recruits? - - really? - is that why our lass coming in is rated anywhere from # 1-3 ? - - Coach Self has done as much as he can with what we have got. - You want him to replace a player in the line up? – Who you going to replace him with? - -Garrett? - he is good defensively - but liability offensively - that’s not the answer. - - Cunliffe? – please we see where that has went. - -who you got? -who is going to be that big difference maker on this roster worthy of a change?
Again this whole thing isn’t aimed at anyone here - unless of course your one who feels we need Self out - then ya you are a idiot just like the others that feel that way. - -This KU fan base is so damn spoiled - -never good enough - -always thinking we should be better. - -How many thousands would love to have this KU program?- -guess I’m one of the many many thousands that think we have been and will be fine. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I get ashamed of many of our fans during losses. Too many entitled fans living up to the snob hill moniker. Let’s try to be gracious to have such an upstanding program to root for even in a “down” year.
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@Jayballer54 We’re 18-5. We’re tied for the lead in the B12, and will still be ranked in the Top 12. It’s as close to a rebuilding year as we have had. Last year, one of our fans suggested that we fire Self, and hire Mark Turgeon. So, it’s not like they have an IQ test to become a fan.
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@KUSTEVE Well said.
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KUSTEVE said:
@Jayballer54 We’re 18-5. We’re tied for the lead in the B12, and will still be ranked in the Top 12. It’s as close to a rebuilding year as we have had. Last year, one of our fans suggested that we fire Self, and hire Mark Turgeon. So, it’s not like they have an IQ test to become a fan.
Thank you buddy. - -I couldn’t agree more. - Like I said hell ya I get mad, but your right for us -this is a rebuilding year , our fan base has got to realize this. - -We have fans who attack players, as if these players were intentionally trying to throw a game - -get really personal and insult these kids. -It’s time like these that I have to question have people tell me - -tell me again who is the Adult again and who is the kid?
Ya these kids struggle - -I( think all the guys have struggled at some point during this year. - - We know Malik has , he is turning it around now, but he went through a large stretch. - - We know Doke struggles - -with his free throws - so he struggles with things - - -We know Vick has/is - - -We know Devonte is struggling with his shot right now and has been for a few games - They all have at one point or another. - -Does it mean they don’t care about the team? -does it mean they aren’t trying? - -you don’t think they read sites such as this? -they read all the fan bashing with such intelligent remarks such as - oh he is the most worthless player we have had - -he doesn’t deserve a schlorship - -people don’t think kids read this kind of trash? - People don’t think this just doesn’t add additional pressure to these kids?
The sad part of it is that most of the fan base that is so quick to critize these kids probably have never stepped foot on the basketball court in a competitive nature, their only experience has probably was junior high inner maurels - -so they really have no place to critique these kids.
Sure we all want this team to win - BUT there are some that feel we should never lose - -we lose and I swear you would think the world is coming to an end. - -FIRE THE COACH - -these kids need to get the hell out their worthless. - -oh it must be really special to be perfect. - -sure I wanna win - sure I get P- - - - - but these are kids - they do make mistakes - -they will struggle
Like I said earlier I think this is just a year where we fell back a bit to the pack PLUS the pack might just be a little better then before.
Just think about this - - next year , we have these studs coming in , we all have these huge expectations about how loaded we are going to be how were gonna kick ass - - and yet these studs - -these very talented players - - are STILL going to be freshman. - Look at Duke - Bagley - -Carter - - Look at Kentucky - young Freshmen - studs - and struggling - there will be no guarntees are we going to rip them too when they struggle to adapt to the College game? - - some of the fan base PROBABLY WILL - -that’s really sad. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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First, your post is much needed. Our KU CULTURE and our national culture have habituated half-baked over-reaction, because of State of Fear propaganda for 17 years (and counting) trying to keep us all too emotional to organize to support an alternative to government by Deep State. The silly outbursts are evidence of persons unable to think that are just arcing like down wires after a storm.
Second, most KU fans at the other sites now view the Jayhawks as entertainment, rather than as sport. They don’t want to savor and understand the game. They watch them like an episode of a drama; I.e., strictly for stimulation. They don’t know what makes us win, or lose. They can’t appreciate an undermanned team finding ways to win, or bouncing back from adversity. It’s all Win-stim, or Lose-Stim.
Third, I come to this site, because there are aliases here that want to experience the game—the wins and losses, as something richer and deeper than stimming. I quit going to the others, because I did not want anymore uncut doses of Win-stimming, or Lose-stimming. We occasionally slip into it here, but even at our worst we have a critical mass of thoughtful aliases that nudge back to ground.
Finally, thinking isn’t for everyone. It’s something I have had to accept over the years. But it’s for anyone that wants. You don’t have to be a genius to think. You’ve just got to want to.
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Aside from the OU free throw debacle I’ve been fairly impressed with Bill this season. I think Dok is actually shooting better free throws for it so maybe that wasn’t such a bad deal either. I won’t say it was orchestrated, but rather a learning moment that was capitalized upon.
There are so many weakness this year it’s impossible to address them all, let alone address every little nit-picking detail (as Bill would like) and keep a super thin rotation anywhere near playing condition. A one seed is looking less likely, so it’s going to be a 6 game tournament not 5 as it has been the last couple of years. Not a good deal for such a short rotation. There is still time to get back up on that one line, but it will be very difficult to do without further wearing down the team.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Second, most KU fans at the other sites now view the Jayhawks as entertainment, rather than as sport. They don’t want to savor and understand the game. They watch them like an episode of a drama; I.e., strictly for stimulation. They don’t know what makes us win, or lose. They can’t appreciate an undermanned team finding ways to win, or bouncing back from adversity. It’s all Win-stim, or Lose-Stim.
@jaybate-1.0 You nailed that one, JB. There’s not really anything wrong with being a stim-based fan (I was probably a bit of one 25 years ago), but it’s hard to watch a game with someone who just watches to see the ball go through the net.
One of my KU fan friends will inevitably explode with rage when, for example, a player on the other team makes an open shot (screaming “f%#*-ing Devonte, play some %$#*ing DEFENSE!”). I’ll point out that Graham got creamed on a screen and Vick should have switched, and that just makes him madder for some reason.
We both agree that KU players need to try to “try to get a *%#*ing rebound” once in a while.
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The issue to me is more with they way our guys just don’t seem to even try half the time. One of my inside sources that works at the university has told me that he has never seen a KU team less fired up to go play and just go thru the motions than this one. I think it’s just the nature of kids these days, this to me is 3 of 5 years (14,15,18) of guys just not wanting to give effort. I think some of the guys play hard but others don’t. I wouldn’t fire Self over lol, Marshall is experiencing the same thing now that his guys ain’t playing against typewriter repair schools. Rebounding is one stat that not only every coach that I have played with or for as well as coach Self is a big factor in how hard a team played. This year I’d say it’s a little different with how small we are, but rewatched most of yesterday’s game and we had 3 or 4 guys just stand frozen repeatedly on the defensive glass. One thing I loved about Roy is he didn’t used to put up with that, several times he pull all 5 guys and put in whomever for a minute or 2 to show guys that if they didn’t bring it they wouldn’t play. Gosh I wish Self would do this, I’d rather lose by 30 and play hard, than lose by 5 because we only played hard for a few stretches.
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Aw NUTS! We just need more wins, fewer losses!
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I guess I didn’t really answer or reply much to the original post, yes I think we as fans myself included get a little too frustrated because we expect to win especially against a NIT team at home. I try not to personally insult coach or players, some on here not so much. The other side of the coin is, it’s that way everywhere. Go check out Dooks and UKs chat rooms from time to time. I feel like we aren’t anywhere near as bad as them but the fact is if you’re gonna play D1 ball you better be tough enough to handle criticism.
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@DanR You need to pick new friends!
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REHawk said:
Aw NUTS! We just need more wins, fewer losses!
And we are going to get one very soon from Trae and OU.
But first we must put on the brass knuckles for Jamie Dixxon’s Horned Hoppers.
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Here. Here.
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kjayhawks said:
I guess I didn’t really answer or reply much to the original post, yes I think we as fans myself included get a little too frustrated because we expect to win especially against a NIT team at home. I try not to personally insult coach or players, some on here not so much. The other side of the coin is, it’s that way everywhere. Go check out Dooks and UKs chat rooms from time to time. I feel like we aren’t anywhere near as bad as them but the fact is if you’re gonna play D1 ball you better be tough enough to handle criticism.
Oh don’t get me wrong - -I fully understand that we as KU fans don’t have a patent on this for sure, but that leads to that old saying two wrongs don’t make a right, so we try to justify the way we act with the theory of - - - -HEY look at Duke - -look at N Carolina you ought to see how they act. - -I understand that believe me I do BUT I think I would rather be thought differently of then those idiots.
I mean you see it in the pro’s too -but at least at that level they are getting paid Millions for their performance -having said that -I have no problem with a player in the pro’s going into the stands after some lame ass fan that 3-4 times is drunk as a skunk and running his punk mouth about the player a members of his family. You talk about if your gonna play D-1 ball you better be tough enough totake the criticism - that might be true - -but as a fan - -you run your mouth especially with the pro’s - choose your words wisely and be prepared for the results - you better be tough enough if your goin to talk smack there.
As far as these guys - -our guys ya they need to be tough - -but let the Coach criticize - - these guys that’s HIS job - -that’s what he gets paid for to instruct - - teach - -and as you say criticize - but that’s his place - - Not ours plus there is a big difference between constructive criticism - and then some that just want to hurt the individual in any way they can try to down grader a 18-19-20 yr old College kid - -how mature is that? - -I don’t care what anyone says - -they don’t think these kids try their just crazy - -sure maybe not up to some expectations - -standards - still doesn’t mean they don’t try.
Hell that like a persons production at their job - you think people meets their boss expectations every single day? - People don’t think that the individual could do a better job - -be more productive? -Of course we could, but in that case if anyone has been through that how did that criticism make you feel - if a Boss chews your as talks really bad - -just reams you out to almost the point he is de-grading you? - -How does that effect that person? - -that’s the way it is with these kids - how does a person think hearing really negative things being said about them - does that build their confidence - -their self esteem? - people sometimes think these kids are on a mission to play like crap - just like some boss’s think an employee gives half as production at work - -we all know that’s not the case. -Again I’m not accusing people here - -and I’m just as guilty to an extent and when I have time to cool down after a bad loss I realize - -Damm must be nice to be perfect - -only thing is - -there is only ONE perfect being and he is not walking this earth right now. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I will not concede the tag “rebuild year” yet. I’ll save that possibility for after our last game and only if it matches our final results.
For perspective, consider our 1988 team… which lost 11 games before cutting down the nets!
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I dont think it can be a rebuild year if we are in first place. But still a down talent year for sure. @dylans I guess you could ask why they did not fix Dokes form earlier in light of the marked improvement? But that may be splitting hairs.
@jaybate-1-0 @Jayballer54 I was there yest and the effort from Doke, Vick, and at times Newman is very situational. Doke is tbe worst…he took lots of plays off and it killed us. It was glaring in person.
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Thanks for the first hand observations.
We need them.
I will watch those three players more closely in the TCU game.
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@Fightsongwriter I don’t know if the misses made the coach or the player pay more attention, but either way it seems to be working.
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When you lose a lottery pick and best OAD ever at the program, the POY and an experienced, steady and smart 5th year senior…yes, rebuild year.
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KU’s third home loss this season is on the ESPN front page on NCAAM and we are quickly becoming a laughing stock for toughest place to play SMH.
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Laughingstock? Hyperbole much?
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@JayHawkFanToo Its getting quite a few laughs at the moment.
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This is a roster lacking some key parts. Self has followed this with a great recruiting class. This year is a bump in the road and the bump may still provide a Big 12 Reg season title. We are spoiled.
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@kjayhawks let 'em laugh, not many have won here!
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@Crimsonorblue22 So long as the university keeps hiring topnotch coaching talent, we can bray with confidence that not many have won, or will win, at AFH. If any opposing coach or team laughs annoyingly after pulling down a win vs. the Jayhawks at the field house, I can easily envision Bill Self grinding the toe of a shoe into their throats next time around. Bill might be a mild mannered guy on the golf course, or in conversations with Holly Rowe; but he seems to remember defeats and slights with a steadfast vengeance. That comical coaching joker with his mouth agape at the Octagon is a case in point. Dreadful Drew, another.
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Over the years the only Div. 1 coaching giant whom Bill hasn’t conquered is The Ratzo. And now that guy appears to be at verge of being brought down by his own negligence in terms of handling Title 9 infractions among his past players. Bill has done quite well vs. Roy, Cal and K in recent years.
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There are 3 teams that left AFH with a smile on their faces but no team laughs coming to AFH; you laugh at your own risk.
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BigBad said:
This is a roster lacking some key parts. Self has followed this with a great recruiting class. This year is a bump in the road and the bump may still provide a Big 12 Reg season title. We are spoiled.
Very spoiled - -to much so , thank you . - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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JayHawkFanToo said:
When you lose a lottery pick and best OAD ever at the program, the POY and an experienced, steady and smart 5th year senior…yes, rebuild year.
For some you just wouldn’t begin to imagine exactly just how much a team would miss someone such as Lucas. - -Not flashy , not a stud - but did pretty damn well right around double degit rebounds for most of the year - -scoring decent - just a solid player. - -A player when the team was asked at one point who they would rather have in the line up and it was - - Lucas - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
