KU 28-3, 16-2, beat Duke &UK, 13th Straight Title
Life is sweet!!
KU might even get a 1 seed and all without an OAD or 5-star center, point guard, or shooting guard!
Self should get COY and maybe CODWLS (coach of decade without a long stack).
Heck, the Deep State (if it really exists) is reputedly even feeling threatened enough to pull out all the stops to overthrow Trump!
What an amazing time to be alive!!!
I gotta say it again!
Pretty good year.
@jaybate-1.0 Josh Jackson?
@jaybate-1.0 But no, KU is peaking at the right time. All those guys are so in sync right now, its deadly.
KU is Final Four good!
Bwag last edited by
Wasn’t slighting Josh.
Self has gotten his share of OAD/5-star types at the 3 and 4 spots, which all the other elite coaches have signed there share of, too.
But Self has not signed any at the 1, 2, or 5.
Also had to update the records and bump it up for today’s sterling W, since our headlines seem NOT to be quite as bubbly as I would expect given our situation.
They sure looked like it today.
They are a lean, mean winning machine.
And my big concern, Frank’s lingerie leg, seemed not to bother him today.
@Lulufulu thats what it’s all about - playing your best ball going into the tournament.
This year no, but Self has landed plenty of OAD bigs… Of course…it didn’t exactly work out great.
Cliff was a 4, definitely not a near footer 5. He was barely 6-8 and really limited.
And Self has had some very good 4s. Shady was Big time 4, when recruited. Perry was a 5-star. Self is allowed to sign 3s and 4s.
Self’s problem is 1, 2, and 5, where it’s largely been a 13 year drought for OADS.
Speaking of cliff
BShark last edited by BShark
I feel Cliff was trending positive, before he had to be shut down. I think he would have been good as a soph, but we will never know.
If Self is embargoed, he did it to himself by being an ogre. However, the last couple years or so he has capitulated a bit sans the Cheick nightmare which surely burned bridges.
Nope. Embiid was listed as a project. He even had to leave his high school team to not be stuck behind another phenom center that later didn’t do so well.
#14 247 composite ranking.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
Texas Hawk 10 last edited by Texas Hawk 10
@JayHawkFanToo Embiid was sub 100 by most sites until the final rankings came out and even then, most had him as a low 5 star, high 4 star guy that would be around multiple years. Embiid developed much quicker than anyone ever imagined he would develop.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
I respectfully disagree. By the time Embiid signed with KU people like “foreign player expert” and KU fans favorite punch bag Fran Fraschilla called him the best player out of HS. Pitino commented that KU had gotten the biggest steal of the class and this is before the final ranking came out. Embiid committed to KU in November 2012 and the final rankings came out months after that.
Ranking yes. BUT PUT AN ASTERISK BY THAT RANKING, OKAY?
EMBIID was listed as a prospect that would likely not even start till his second season; THAT IS NOT AN OAD/5-STAR READY TO START AND PLAY AS A FRESHMAN OF THE KIND THAT DUKE, UK AND UNC ROUTINELY HAVE GOTTEN THE LAST THIRTEEN YEARS.
OH, AND EMBIID IS ONE PROJECT THAT DEVELOPED UNEXPECTEDLY OVER THIRTEEN YEARS!!! AND HE WAS CLUBBED LIKE A BABY SEAL AND THROWN ON HIS BACK AND DIDN’T FINISH THE SEASON.
REPEAT AFTER ME…THIRTEEN YEARS!!! ONE TOP CENTER…AND HE WAS A PROJECT!
AND WHERE ARE ALL OF KU"S LONG AND MEDIUM STACKS THAT KU SHOULD GET ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD EITHER THE SAME YEAR DUKE, UK AND UNC GET THEM, OR IN THE YEARS AFTER?
ISN’T IT KU’S TURN TO GET LONG AND MEDIUM STACKS FOR FIVE YEARS…13 YEARS?
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!
KU IS GETTING THE HELL SCREWED OUT OF IT BY THIS RECRUITING REGIME EVEN WITH ANDREW WIGGINS ONE YEAR AND JOSH JACKSON THREE YEARS LATER.
"WAKE UP PEOPLE…WORK THE PROBLEM!!!–GENE KRANZ
THOSE RANKINGS REQUIRE AN ASTERISK AND EVERYONE WITH A WORKING MEMORY RECALLS IT.
DONOVAN AND NORM HAD HIM STAKED OUT AND HE WAS PLAYING BEHIND SOMEONE LIKE DAKINE AND HAD TO CHANGE SCHOOLS BECAUSE HE WAS SUCH A PROJECT.
I DON’T CARE IF HE WAS RANKED NUMBER 1, OR EVEN NUMBER 1+, IF THE GUY WASN’T EVEN PROJECTED TO START AND PLAY TILL HIS SECOND SEASON HE WAS NOT PART OF THE HIGHEST CUT OADS/5-STARS THAT DUKE, UNC, AND UK WERE THEN GETTING COMING OUT THEIR EARS.
TALK APPLES AND APPLES.
“WORK THE PROBLEM, PEOPLE”–GENE KRANZ
Embiid was sub 100 by most sites until the final rankings came out and even then, most had him as a low 5 star, high 4 star guy that would be around multiple years. Embiid developed much quicker than anyone ever imagined he would develop.
I respectably agree!!!
yeeeeeeee hawwwwwwwww, functioning memory.
AND BRING ON THE DRILL THE @JayHawkFanToo IN THE HEAD GUY TOO, SO I CAN PHOTOSHOP HIM AND REALLY START HAVING SOME FUN TODAY!!!
WE NEED TO JUICE THIS BOARD UP SOME.
THIS TEAM IS 28-3 WITH ONLY ONE STINKING OAD AND NO FIVE STARs IN SIGHT.
ITS INSANE WHAT SELF HAS DONE!
COMPLETELY OVERTHETOP GREAT!!!
ONE OAD AND NO FACE CARDS AND HE’S HANGING WITH THE BIG DOGS!
No, wait, he beat Dook and Kensuck, didn’t he?
WHAT SELF DOES HAVE IS THE GUYS WHO CAN REALLY PLAY THE GAME!!! WHAT SELF HAS ARE THE GUYS THAT WENT IN THE GYM FOR YEARS AND GOT BETTER. WHAT SELF HAS IS THE GUYS WITH THE RIGHT STUFF. WHAT SELF HAS IS A JSOC WITH AN OAD PLUGGED IN THAT PLAYS LIKE A JSOC GUY. WHAT SELF HAS IS ABOUT THREE AND A HALF TIMES THE BASKETBALL IQ OF JOHN “I CAN ONLY WIN BIG WHEN MY DECK IS STACKED” CALIPARI.
THIS TEAM IS 28-3 and has beaten Duke and UK with a pair of guards that wouldn’t even be starting on Duke or UK…EVEN THIS SEASON WITH THEIR MEDIUM STACKS.
GOOD LORD, WOULD FRANK AND DEVONTE EVEN HAVE GOTTEN A SNIFF FROM CALIPARI OR COACH K IN THE RECRUITING SEASON BEFORE THEIR 9-10 OAD LONG STACKS? ABSOLUTELY FLIPPING NOT!!!
John Calipari would be 15-16 with this team unless he called in some Petroshoeco-Agency Complex chits and then he would only be 18-13, even in that pathetic excuse for a conference that he coaches in.
You know, the best thing about MU leaving for the SEC? I get to wake up every day and think we don’t have to play them and The Squid does!!!
Self is a genius!!!
Self is a genius!!!
Anyone recall any programs imitating Calipari’s playing style at UK? Maybe one?
Hell, Cal is even running the chop.
Anyone immitating Bill Self’s playing style at KU?
It often seems like everyone is imitating some part of Self Ball or other.
Duh, i dunno.
Maybe because Self is coaching with a roster full of players closer to what most coaches have; maybe? Oh and because Self wins 84% of his games starting 3-4 stars!!! Maybe?
Gene Kranz, I luv you, man!!!
I stand by my comment, any “embargo” Self brought on himself and at the end of the day it’s still hard to recruit to Lawrence. You have to get past the initial wall of perception. There is no grand conspiracy.
I absolutely agree. I am opposed to all grand conspiracies proposed. There are no illegal conspiracies, grand or otherwise, unless law enforcement catches them and tries them in a court of law and those charged are convicted lawfully by a jury of their peers.
I try never to deal in grand conspiracies, or petit conspiracies, or any conspiracies in between. Illegalities are for the authorities.
I actually HATE conspiracies.
I don’t believe in any but those that are proven.
I don’t suspect any.
I don’t know why others talk about them all the time, most often denying them, while at the same time appearing to try to smear other folks that don’t propose conspiracies as proposin’ conspiracies. Really counter intuitive, if ya know what I mean.
The season Duke reputedly had 9 OADs and UK had ten OADs on their rosters, there was nothing comspiratorial about that!!! Everyone saw it as plain as they would see a nose on another person’s face. Boom! There they were, No secrets about it. Absolutely no conspiracy involved. Everyone that read about the teams and watched the teams saw them. I don’t recall either Coach K, or Coach Calipari, denying that they had about that many OADs on their rosters, do you?
No conspiracies there, here, or anywhere from me.
Its just a fact: Self has never had near as many OADs, even though he wins a higher percentage of his games and has won the same number of rings that Cal has won with all those danged OADs.
Now having gotten the conspiracy nonsense out of the way, let’s talk about how you claim its so much easier to recruit to Kentucky, than say, Lawrence.
Billy Gillispie never had 10 OADs at Kentucky did he?
I don’t recall him having 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 OADs when he coached at Kentucky. Maybe I have forgotten and he had 5. But surely never 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10, right? Correct me if I am not recalling clearly. I make mistakes.
Heck, I don’t recall Joe B. Hall, or Eddie Sutton, or Rick Pitino, or Tubby Smith having 10 OADs at Kentucky, do you?
Well, dadgummit, that kinda suggests that it isn’t exactly Kentucky, its location, and blue grass and bourbon whiskey and ponies that drives ten OADs to UK, now does it?
I’m not meanin’ to be impertinent here. I’m just trying to understand.
But wait, lemme think about this a second.
Even Coach Cal himself doesn’t always land 10 OADs every season, does he?
He had six OADs on his 2012 team that beat us for a ring didn’t he?
Has Self ever had 6 OADs at KU? No, I don’t believe so.
Lemme think some more.
Let’s see, why do you suppose Coach Cal had a run of from 6-10 OADs on his teams for a short while, and then fell some way off that?
Has Kentucky suffered some kind of undesirable global warming effect that is driving away OADs?
Is that blue that Kentucky uses for its color no longer a fashionista color capable of attracting OADs?
Is it that Drake is not selling enough downloads?
Has Ashley Judd lost here ability to sell those OADs on UK?
Has Coach Cal changed his mousse?
Well, gee, golly, I just don’t see how this OAD recruiting asymmetry can be be persuasively attributed to Kentucky’s incredible locational advantages over Lawrence, KS. I don’t.
And if Kentucky had these incredible locational advantages, wouldn’t Louisville, Kentucky State, Bowling Green, UTenn, Memphis (well, maybe not Memphis, cause its kind of a hole), and so on be signing 6-10 OADs?
Gosh, darn it, whah is UK able to sign 6-10 OADs for awhile and then not?
We have ruled out conspiracies.
And we have rule out locational advantages.
And I think it is reasonable to rule out Mousse changes by Coach Calipari. That just seems like a real stretch to me.
So: all conspiracies aside, what do you think might have driven the freakish stretch of 6-10 OADs on a single team?
Dangedest think I ever saw.
Texas Hawk 10 last edited by
@JayHawkFanToo Norm only stumbled onto Embiid because of KU’s pursuit of Chris Walker. Embiid was sub 100 when he signed at KU, and rose in the rankings AFTER he signed.
You can disagree all you want, but I offered no little opinion and mostly fact. Embiid was sub 100 by just about everyone prior to the final release of rankings which all generally happen in March/April. He did not jump up until the end. Most sites did have him in the 20’s-30’s when their final rankings came out. While most people did project him to be very good, most (including Fran) did not project him to be OAD. Anyone who knew what they were talking about projected Embiid as a 2 year guy.
2 years ago, Svi was considered KU’s best pro prospect, look how that one turned out. Experts can miss on tye speed of a player’s development and everyone underestimated the speed of Embiid’s development.
Agree. Coaches should stick to their own evals and not just look at recruiting service rankings.
It’s not complicated.
Coach Cal is a good recruiter. Coach K is a good recruiter and has the team USA advantage and Duke almost recruits itself at this point. Duke has a very good rate of 5 stars offered to those offers being accepted. Duke waits to offer, a situation that has often bit KU, but looks good when it works.
Recruiting is mostly on coaches sure, but location is a factor too. Self has done a good job recruiting and getting kids to visit Lawrence. UK is in a position where Cal made them the in school to go to for being OAD. An NBA factory. It’s snake oil but kids buy it.
When you do some of the things Self has done, with his quick hook as well as looking like an ogre berating a highly rated player it will bite you eventually in recruiting. Notice Self had it rolling for a bit after a brief recruiting sabbatical. Then he had Cliff, Oubre, Cheick. Each one of them problematic. Things like that add up. The Cheick issue is real and is used against KU. Cheick should have played over Self’s pet Jamari if he didn’t want that problem.
So now we are in a year where Self had to take a qualifying risk and a player whose HS close he has a good relationship with and a couple transfers.
Good news: Self is playing modern basketball this year and hasn’t looked like an ogre. Maybe we see an uptick in recruiting.
Who thinks Calipari could go 28-3 and win a thirteenth straight B12 title with this KU roster?
And if you would, please explain yer thinkin’ on what leads you to believe that Coach Cal could do it?
I genuinely want to hear this reasoning.
I don’t know. I just can’t help myself from bumping this up to the top every so often. I just LOVE the look of this headline!!!
@jaybate-1.0 JSOC? HELL YEAH ! BUMP IT BACK UP THEN… HOOYAH! DAMNIT. SHOW ME DA PAPER, I’LL RE-UP RIGHT NOW !!!
Up it goes!!!
@jaybate-1.0 First the money, then the clothes!
@jaybate-1.0 Am looking at prices for the first weekend in Tulsa on ticketmaster and the lower level seats that are remaining for both days are in the $600 range-ouch … single game LL avg 100 bbucks. Nosebleed… Only $150-200. Geeze, I may have to settle for the Samsung on that weekend & head to the Keeter Center to see Rollie Masimino in the D 11 tourney instead. I think those tics are like 20 bucks for the entire day of games. Mother Jay Bird used to say “Son, Poor people have poor ways…”
@globaljaybird bet it’s a nice Samsung!
truehawk93 last edited by truehawk93
Bill Self - COY?
Mason - POY?
Jackson - FOY?
Dang REFS…this is home cooking…bwahahahahaha
Great honors all. Congrats to these and the entire team for a great regular season. Let’s continue the B12 tourney one game at a time.
@globaljaybird bet it’s a nice Samsung!
Not bad. Gets all the replays & slo-mos, 55"w/soundbar & wireless sub, on a full fluid motion wall mount, 30 feet from the concession stand & bar, 40 feet from the head, & if we’re playing really badly, only 500 feet from the lake.
To be a good board rat, and show respect, I’m going to comment graph by graph in caps, okay. Nothing confrontational.
It’s not complicated. (EVERY TIME A COACH, OR PROFESSOR, OR A JOURNALIST OR AN AGENT RUNNER OR AGENT BREAKS SILENCE, WHICH APPEARS INCREASINGLY INFREQUENT SINCE THE EARLY 2000S, THE IMPLICATIONS ARE THAT IT IS VERY COMPLICATED AND GETTING MORE SO OVER THE DECADES OF THE APPARENT EXISTENCE OF THE PETROSHOECO-AGENCY COMPLEX. READ “COLLEGE SPORTS, INC.” READ THE BOOK BOB KNIGHT AGREED TO HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT HIM BY A NON SPORTS JOURNALIST, WHEN HE HAD APPARENTLY GROWN WARY OF HAVING TAKEN ON THE CHEATERS AND CORRUPTION IN COLLEGE SPORTS RECRUITING WELL BEFORE HE LEFT INDIANA. READ SONNY VACCARRO ON HOW IT WAS IN THE BEGINNING–HOW DAPPER DAN IN PITTSBURG BEFORE SHOES GREW OUT OF ROCK CONCERT PROMOTERS, AND THEN WITH SONNY’S LEAP INTO SHOES, AND THEN ON HOW SONNY AND DEAN AND MJ (WITH ROY AN ASSISTANT) TOOK IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL, AND HOW IT GOT MORE COMPLICATED WHEN ROY CAME TO KU AND MADE THE DEAL TO RECRUIT WEST OF THE MISSISSIPPI AND PARK CERTAIN PLAYERS IN KC, AND THEN READ ABOUT HOW SONNY AND GEORGE RAVELING TEAMED UP FOR AWHILE AND SEEMED TO COZY UP WITH BOB KNIGHT ENOUGH FOR BOB TO PICK GEORGE FOR HIS OLYMPIC ASSISTANT, AND THEN HOW GEORGE STAYED WITH THE SWOOSH AND SONNY WENT TO ANOTHER BRAND, AND THEN HOW GEORGE AND SONNY HAD A FALLING OUT, AND THEN HOW GEORGE ASCENDED…WELL, YOU GET THE IDEA, THE BEAST HAS A LONG LEGACY IN SHAPING RECRUITING AND BASKETBALL IN THE SUMMER GAME AND THE COLLEGE GAME AND THE PRO GAME. AND THEN READ “SOLE INFLUENCE.” AND REMEMBER THAT IS ALL BEFORE 2002 OR SO AND REMEMBER THAT THERE HAS BEEN NO INDICATION THAT ANYTHING WAS SUBSTANTIALLY REFORMED AND CLEANED UP REGARDING SHOES AND AGENTS AT ANY LEVEL OF THE GAME. THEN READ ABOUT THE MEDIA-GAMING COMPLEX AND TRY TO READ (ITS REALLY HARD TO FIND MUCH) ABOUT THE NEXUS OF OIL, SHOES, GLOBALIZATION OF PETRO SHOE AND PETRO APPAREL MARKETS AS DRIVEN BY SPORTS BRANDING. OH, ITS COMPLEX. THEN READ ABOUT KU’S RELATION TO THE PETROSHOECOS STARTING BACK WITH ROY AND NIKE. THEN BILL AND NIKE. THEN BILL AND ADIDADAS. CONVERSE AND ROGER MORNINGSTAR FITS IN THERE SOMEWHERE. OMG! ITS AMAZINGLY COMPLICATED. THEN COMPARE BILL’S RECRUITING BEFORE AND AFTER THE SWITCH FROM NIKE TO ADIDAS. AND THEN LOOK AT THE TRENDS IN HIS RECRUITING AFTER WINNING THE RING IN 2008. OMG ITS COMPLICATED. KEEP IN MIND WHAT WAS HAPPENING SIMULTANEOUSLY AT DUKE AND UK AND UNC. DO THIS AND I WILL BE STUNNED IF YOU INSISTS THE PHENOMENON OF KU RECRUITING EMBEDDED IN THIS CONTEXT IS SIMPLE THEN OR NOW.> Coach Cal is a good recruiter. BEFORE UK, CAL HAS LEFT VACATED SEASONS AT UMASS AND MEMPHIS IN HIS WAKE. AT UK CAL HAS HAD A 6 OAD ROSTER, AND SEVERAL MORE WITH BETWEEN SIX AND 10 OADS. READ ABOUT SOMEONE CALLED WORLD WIDE WES. READ ABOUT THE TALENT AGENCY IN HOLLYWOOD THAT WWW REPUTEDLY WORKS FOR/WITH AND READ ABOUT WWW BEING CAL’S AGENT, AND SO HAVING A KIND OF ACCESS TO THE PLAYERS, AND THEN SEE HOW GOOD OF A RECRUITER YOU THINK CAL IS. OMG!!! Coach K is a good recruiter and has the team USA advantage and Duke almost recruits itself at this point. IF DUKE RECRUITED ITSELF IT WOULD NOT VARY FROM 3 OADS TO 9 OADS. NOTHING RECRUITS ITSELF. ASK ANY COLLEGE BASKETBALL COACH IF THEIR PLACE RECRUITS ITSELF. SELF TALKS ABOUT HOW SOMEONE AT KU WITH KU’S RESOURCES OUGHT TO WIN. BUT ASK SELF IF KU RECRUITS ITSELF? HELL, ASK COACH K IF DUKE RECRUITS ITSELF. THE KEY WORD IS RESOURCES. AND THE PETROSHOECO-AGENCY COMPLEX IS PART OF THAT RESOURCE BASE–A GROWING PART OF IT. STUDY COACH K’S RECRUITING CLASSES OVER THE YEARS AND WATCH HOW THEY FLUCTUATE AND WHAT THEY FLUCTUATE ALONG WITH. ITS NOT SIMPLE AT ALL IMHO. Duke has a very good rate of 5 stars offered to those offers being accepted. Duke waits to offer WHY?, a situation that has often bit KU (WHY?), but looks good when it works. (YOU KEEP LOSING THE FOREST FOR THE TREES. WHY CAN DUKE HAVE A NINE OAD ROSTER AND THE BEST SELF HAS EVER HAD IS 3, OR SO, WHEN 1 OR 2 CAME BACK? WHY DOES IT WORK FOR DUKE BUT BITE KU? WHY?
Recruiting is mostly on coaches sure , but location is a factor too. FINE. HAVE THESE AS FACTORS. ADD ANOTHER FACTOR. AT LEAST SINCE THE 2000S ITS APPARENTLY DECISIVELY INVOLVED THE PETROSHOECO-AGENCY LINKAGES. has done a good job recruiting and getting kids to visit Lawrence. UK is in a position where Cal made them the in school to go to for being OAD. An NBA factory. It’s snake oil but kids buy it. AFTER YOU READ EVERYTHING I HAVE MENTIONED ABOVE, YOU WILL LIKELY LOOK BACK AND WONDER HOW YOU EVER SAW IT AS YOU SEE IT NOW.
When you do some of the things Self has done, with his quick hook (HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED COACH K CHEW ON A PLAYER? HE MAKES SELF LOOK LIKE A PUSSY CAT. as well as looking like an ogre berating a highly rated player it will bite you eventually in recruiting. Notice Self had it rolling for a bit after a brief recruiting sabbatical. Then he had Cliff, Oubre, Cheick. Each one of them problematic. WHY DOES HE TAKE PROBLEMATICS? IT APPEARS HE TAKES THOSE PROBLEMATIC PLAYERS, BECAUSE THAT’S APPARENTLY THE ONLY KIND HE CAN GET AT THOSE POSITIONS. YOU DON’T THINK SELF WOULD TAKE PROBLEMATIC PLAYERS, IF HE COULD GET NON PROBLEMATICS, DO YOU? I MEAN HE IS REPUTEDLY A GOOD GUY AND LIKES CHARACTERS, BUT PROBLEMATICS? IT DOESN’T SEEM PROBABLE TO ME, BUT I COULD BE WRONG. Things like that add up. SURELY. THE LONGER THIS APPARENT INABILITY TO SIGN OAD AND 5-STAR 5S CONTINUES AT THE 1,2, and 5 POSITIONS THE LEANER HIS ROSTERS SEEM TO GET. WHAT’S HE GOING TO DO, WHEN ALL THE COACHES START COPYING HIS 4 GUARD OFFENSE AND VACUUM UP NOT ONLY THE OADS AND 5 STARS, BUT START VACUUMING UP HIS 3 AND 4 STAR FINDS? The Cheick issue is real and is used against KU. MANY THINGS ARE REPUTEDLY USED AGAINST KU. ADIDAS PROBABLY I WOULD GUESS BY NIKE SCHOOLS. GOING TO CLASS I WOULD GUESS BY SCHOOLS THAT DON’T MAKE THEIR GUYS STUDY. WINTER BY SCHOOLS WITH NO WINTER. B12 INSTABILITY BY MOST IN MORE STABLE CONFERENCES. BUT THESE FACTORS IN APPARENTLY FEW CASES KEEP ADIDAS OAD LEANS AT 3 AND 4 FROM COMING TO KU AND SEEM TO HAVE LITTLE CORRELATION WITH NIKE LEANS NOT COMING TO KU. THE QUESTION IS: WHY DID SELF OPT FOR THE PROBLEMATICS, IF HE COULD HAVE HAD THE NONPROBLEMATICS? WHY OPT FOR GUYS THAT HAVE LIMITED FUNDAMENTALS FROM NOT HAVING PLAYED A LOT OF YEARS OVER EVEN BETTER PLAYERS THAT HAVE PLAYED A LONG TIME? HYPOTHESIS: HE COULDN’T SIGN THE NON PROBLEMATICS AT THE 1, 2 AND 5 SPOTS THAT THE OTHER SCHOOLS WERE SIGNING FOR SOME REASON UNRELATED TO WINNING PERCENTAGE, CONFERENCE TITLES, RINGS, AND TRADITION. IN MANY INSTANCES HE APPEARED NOT REALLY EVEN IN THE SERIOUS RUNNING, BUT ITS HARD TO KNOW AS A FAN. Cheick should have played over Self’s pet Jamari if he didn’t want that problem. SELF HAS NEVER SHOWN MUCH SIGN OF PLAYING GUYS THAT HURT HIS CHANCES OF WINNING IN FAVOR OF PLAYERS THAT DIDN’T. TRAYLOR IS OFTEN CITED, BUT THEN AGAIN SELF WON SEVERAL CONFERENCE TITLES WITH TRAYLOR. THIS IS WHAT BOARD RATS OFTEN FORGET. SELF WINS TITLES WITH THESE GUYS THAT SOME PEOPLE DISCOUNT, WHILE OTHER COACHES ARE COMING IN SECOND AND THIRD WITHOUT SUPPOSEDLY PLAYING SUCH PLAYERS. HMMM. MAYBE THE COACH KNOWS MORE THAN THE FANS? NAW THAT COULDN’T BE. SELF TRIED TO PLAY CHEICK AND CLIFF. NEITHER PLAYED REMOTELY AS WELL AS MANY OF THE OADS PLAYED ON DUKE, UK AND UNC. SO HE SAT THEM MORE BUT KEPT TRYING TO FIT THEM IN. HE NEVER STOPS TRYING UNTIL THEY JUST STINK UP THE FLOOR, DEVELOP AN OFF COURT ISSUE, OR TELL THEM THEY AREN’T COMING BACK. RECALL SELF HAS WON 13 STRAIGHT TITLES AND A RING. IT APPEARS HE KNOWS HOW TO PICK PLAYERS THAT CAN WIN 84% OF THE GAMES AND 13 STRIAGHT TITLES AND AT LEAST ONE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AGAINST A TEAM FULL OF RINGERS. SOMETHING OTHER THAN SELF MIGHT BE THE PROBLEM WHEN IT COMES TO CLIFF AND CHEICK, EH?
So now we are in a year where Self had to take a qualifying risk and a player whose HS close he has a good relationship with and a couple transfers. KU’S NUMBER OF OADS HAS TRENDED DOWNWARD RECENTLY FROM 3 TO 1 PER SEASON ON THE ROSTER IN A SIMILAR BUT GREATER PROPORTION TO THE DOWNWARD TREND AT UK AND DUKE FROM LONG STACKS TO MEDIUM STACKS. FROM 10 TO 5 OADS IS A 50 PERCENT DROP. FROM 3 TO 1 IS A 66.666% DROP. REGARDLESS, IMHO, THE BIGGER PROBLEM SELF FACES IS THAT HE IS INCREASINGLY UNABLE TO SIGN THE 5-STARS. THE QUALITY RANKING (STARS) AND QUANTITY OF HIS NON OAD ROSTER PLAYERS APPEARS TO BE DECLINING. WE ARE BLESSED WITH FRANK AND DEVONTE AND LANDEN PLAYING FABULOUSLY, WITH MANY YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT, BUT THE WRITING ON THE WALL AT LEAST SOME RISK OF THIS GETTING TO BE A TOUGHER TRICK TO PULL OFF, RATHER THAN EASIER, AS ONE WOULD EXPECT OF A COACH AT THE PEAK OF HIS PROFESSION AND IN THE PRIME OF HIS CAREER. COMPARE THE STAR RANKINGS OF THE NON OAD PLAYERS ON THE 2012 TEAM (IT DIDN’T EVEN HAVE AN OAD) AND THE 2017 TEAM. I’M GUESSING HERE BUT I HAVE A HUNCH ITS LOWER. BUT EVEN IF ITS NOT, IT MIGHT ONLY BE MARGINALLY BETTER AFTER ALL THESE YEARS OF WINNING MORE TITLES AND ACTUALLY INCREASING HIS OVERALL WINNING PERCENTAGE, AND DURING A TIME WHEN NO OTHER COACHES OTHER THAN COACH K ARE RACKING UP MORE RINGS THAN SELF ALREADY HAS. Good news: Self is playing modern basketball this year and hasn’t looked like an ogre. Maybe we see an uptick in recruiting. I KNOW MANY DISAGREE BUT SELF HAS ALWAYS PLAYED MODERN BASKETBALL. HE HAS BEEN BEING COPIED BY OTHER COACHES HEAVILY SINCE 2012. MOST FANS HERE DON’T EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT DEAN SMITH, LARRY BROWN, ROY WILLIAMS AND BILL SELF ALL RAN THE CAROLINA PASSING OFFENSE, AND THAT THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOST WIDELY USED OFFENSES IN D1 DURING EACH OF THOSE COACHES CAREERS INCLUDING ROY’S AND SELF’S. UCONN COPIED SELF AND BROWN AND RAN THE CAROLINA PASSING OFFENSE TO WIN CALHOUN’S LAST RING AND KEVIN’S RING. MOST FOLKS DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT SELF IS STILL RUNNING THE BASIC CAROLINA PASSING OFFENSE THAT HE MODIFIED YEARS AGO WITH THE CHOP EVEN WHEN HE RUNS FOUR OUT AND 1 IN INSTEAD OF 3 AND 2. HECK, KU IS RUNNING 3-2 CAROLINA PASSING OFFENSE A LOT THIS SEASON WITH 4 GUARDS. THERE ARE LOTS OF POSSESSIONS WHEN THE OFFENSE THIS TEAM IS RUNNING IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME OFFENSE SELF’S 2012 FINALS TEAM RAN. FRANKLY, SELF HAS CHANGED THE DEFENSE VASTLY MORE THAN THE OFFENSE BETWEEN THIS TEAM AND THE 2012 TEAM. IT IS NOT THE OFFENSE THAT MAKES THIS TEAM SO FUN TO WATCH. IT IS THAT SELF HAS FOUR GOOD BALL HANDLERS AND SHOOTERS; THAT’S A RARITY. COACH K HAS KEPT PLAYING HIS SAME BOB KNIGHT MOTION OFFENSE HIS ENTIRE CAREER AT DUKE AND ONE SEASON HE PLAYED WITH SIMILAR PERSONNEL TO WHAT KU HAS THIS SEASON, HE PULLED ONE OF HIS GUYS OUT THE SAME WAY SELF IS DOING, AND COACH K WON A RING; THEN THE NEXT SEASON COACHK PLAYED MORE BIG MEN BECAUSE HE HAD FEWER BALL HANDLING DEAD EYES. NO ONE SAYS: OH, COACH K IS PLAYING CONTEMPORARY BALL NOW AND HIS RECRUITING WILL IMPROVE. NO ONE SAYS: OH, COACH K IS NOW PLAYING RETRO BALL AGAIN AND HIS RECRUITING WILL WORSEN. KU FANS HAVE HAD A GREAT DEAL OF TROUBLE CATCHING ON TO WHAT COACH SELF DOES AND DOES NOT DO. FOR INSTANCE, SELF ACTUALLY DID EXPERIMENT WITH A REMARKABLY INGENIUS NEW SET OF ACTION THE FIRST MONTH OR TWO OF THE SEASON. JESSE NEWELL DID A NICE STORY WITH FEEDS DEMONSTRATING IT. I THOUGHT IT WAS INGENIUS AND IDEALLY SUITED TO MAKE THE BEDROCK OFFENSE FOR THE TEAM. IT TURNED THE CHOP AND WEAVE AT 45 DEGREE ANGLES AND RAN IT ON THE WINGS INSTEAD OF RUNING IT AROUND THE FRONT. FLIPPING BRILLIANT. AND IT WORKED. BUT SELF RETIRED IT FOR MOST OF THIS SEASON. HE NEVER EXPLAINED WHY. THERE’S NOTHING MORE OLD FASHIONED THAN THE CHOP AND WEAVE OUT FRONT, BUT I DON’T EVER RECALL IT BEING SCHEMED TO BE RUN AT 45 DEGREE ANGLES TO THE BASKET. IT WAS KILLER. BUT SELF SAID IT WASN’T WORKING THE WAY HE WANTED IT TO, AND THAT THEY PROBABLY WOULD GO BACK TO THEIR CONVENTIONAL OFFENSE OF LAST YEAR AND THIS: THE HIGH LOW WITH THE 4 PULLED OUT PART OF THE TIME INTO 4-1 AND PART OF THE TIME PLAYING INSIDE. BUT LOW AND BEHOLD, I SAW KU RUN THE 45 DEGREE ANGLE CHOP AND WEAVE ACTION FROM EARLY IN THE SEASON BRIEFLY THIS LAST GAME OF THE REGULAR CONFERENCE SEASON. HE’S A DEVIL. I DON’T KNOW IF HE SHOWED IT, BECAUSE HE PLANS TO START USING IT AGAIN, OR IF HE JUST WANTS TO GIVE OPPONENTS MORE TO PREPARE FOR. WHO KNOWS? WE COULD NEVER SEE IT AGAIN, OR HE MIGHT SURPRISE AN OPPONENT IN THE MADNESS WITH IN A MISMATCH WHERE THE TEAM NEEDS SOMETHING EXTRA. BUT BELIEVE ME. COACH CAL IS STEALING BILL’S STUFF AND THE ONLY THING SELF HAS STOLEN FROM COACH CAL IS REALLY SOMETHING HE ALSO STOLE FROM LOTS OF OTHER COACHES: THE BALL SCREEN. AND HE STILL HATES IT. AND REMEMBER THIS: SELF BORROWED BAD BALL FROM BO RYAN AND TURNED IT INTO AN ENTIRE OFFENSE. TALK ABOUT INNOVATION. HECK, COACHES WERE COPYING HIS BAD BALL LIKE CRAZY DOWN THE STRETCH OF THE ONE SEASON HE DEVELOPED AND USED IT. EVEN FRED HOIBERG HAD HIS GUYS RUNNING BAD BALL ONE HALF OF ONE GAME IN THE B12 CHAMPIONSHIP HIS LAST SEASON. REALLY, DON’T WASTE ANOTHER MINUTE THINKING SELF USED TO PLAY OLD FASHIONED BALL AND NOW HE IS UP TO DATE. THIS GUY HAS BEEN AHEAD OF THE CURVE EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. THE ONLY THING HE DID NOT DO WAS ADOPT DEAD END STRATEGIES LIKE THE REAL PRINCETON, OR PRINCETON ON STEROIDS DRIBBLE DRIVE, WHICH HAS HAD TO BE MODIFIED TO RUN THE MORE COMPLICATED ACTIONS THAT SELF HAS BEEN ADDING TO HIS OFFENSE. SELF ACTUALLY APPEARS TO LIKE TO RUN WHAT NOONE ELSE IS RUNNING, BUT THEY COPY SO FAST HE DOESN’T GET TO. BUT HERE ARE THE TWO MOST RADICALLY NEW INNOVATIONS OF BILL SELF. FIRST, LET THE OTHER TEAM SET THE TEMPO. INSANELY BRILLIANT. SECOND, PLAY IT ANYWAY THEY WANT. INSANELY BRILLIANT. THESE TWO INNOVATIONS HE BROUGHT WITH HIM FROM ILLINOIS TO KU. THEY AREN’T NEW, BUT THEY ARE SO INCREDIBLY COUNTER INTUITIVE AND POST MODERN IN CONCEIT THAT A LOT OF COACHES STILL CAN’T FIGURE OUT THAT HE IS DOING IT TO THEM. AND THOSE THAT DO FIGURE IT OUT CAN RARELY FIGURE OUT HOW TO BEAT HIM DOING IT, UNLESS THEY JUST HAVE A WHOLE EXCREMENT POT MORE TALENT. FRED HOIBERG, TRAVIS FORD AND COACH K ARE THE ONLY THREE COACHES THAT HAVE REALLY BEEN SMART ENOUGH TO GRASP AND COUNTER SELF’S GAME. FORD ONLY HAD ENOUGH TALENT TO PUT IT TO SELF ONE OR TWO SEASONS. COACH K CAN RELIABLY BEAT SELF WHEN COACH K HAS MORE TALENT, BUT HE APPARENTLY GETS THE WILLIES WHEN SELF AND HE MEET WITH SIMILAR DECKS OF CARDS. FRED? FRED WAS A WILY DEVIL. BUT THE LONGER THEY PLAYED EACH OTHER THE MORE SELF FIGURE HIM OUT. AND TO BE COMPLETELY CANDID, THE CAROLINA PASSING OFFENSE (HIGH LOW) WITH SOME OKLAHOMA SHUFFLE CUTS DEAN KEPT IN IT PLUS SELF’S CHOP AND WEAVE, PLUS SOME BALL SCREENS ARE REALLY WHAT EVERYONE’S RUNNING, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY ARE CALLING IT. KNIGHT’S MOTION OFFENSE IS FUNDAMENTALLY BUILT ON THE 3-2 FORMATION AND THE FUNDAMENTALS KNIGHT CRIBBED FROM IBA, BUT KNIGHT HAD A PHILOSOPHY DERIVED FROM FRED TAYLOR, PETE NEWELL AND CLAIRE BEE THAT DIFFERS FUNDAMENTALLY FROM THE CAROLINA PASSING GAME. KNIGHT USES THE HI-LOW AND RUNS A SERIES OF ACTIONS OFF IT THAT ARE ABOUT FORCING CHOICES AND USING CUTS AND SCREENING TO GET OPEN SHOTS. THE TRUE CAROLINA PASSING GAME IS ABOUT CREATING IMPACT SPACE FOR PLAYERS TO MAKE PLAYS. REGARDLESS OF WITHER ITS PLAYED WITH TWO POST MEN, OR FOUR GUARDS, OR SOME OTHER MIX. COACHES COBBLE STUFF TOGETHER AND GIVE IT DIFFERENT NAMES ALL THE TIME, BUT ITS ALMOST ENTIRELY BASED ON 3 OR 4 PERIMETER PLAYERS PASSING AND RUNNING ACTIONS FOR 1 OR 2 BIGS INSIDE. ALL OFFENSES PULL 4S AND 5S OUT AS TALENT PERMITS AND MATCHUPS REQUIRE. SELF HAS APPEARED THIS SEASON TO GO BACK TO GET SOME OF THE PLAYS UCLA RAN IN ITS SINGLE HIGH POST OFFENSE, PROBABLY BECAUSE HE WAS HOPING BRAGG WOULD COME AROUND FOR TREYS AT THE TOP OF THE CIRCLE, BUT HE HASN’T AND SO NOW THOSE SETS ARE KIND OF USELESS, EXCEPT SELF HAS REALIZED THAT SOME OF THE WING AND BASELINE ACTIONS OF THE OLD SINGLE HIGH POST OFFENSE WORK PRETTY WELL FOR JOSH. SO, ONCE IN AWHILE WE SEE LANDEN PULLED OUTSIDE FOR BRIEF PLAY. ITS USUALLY DISGUISED AS HIM RUNNING A BALL SCREEN. WHAT ELSE? I GOTTA THINK SELF HAS PROBABLY CRIBBED A LITTLE FROM FRED, WHILE HE WAS RUNNING HIS 4-1 AT ISU AND WHAT STEVE KERR AND LUKE WALTON COBBLED TOGETHER AT GOLDEN STATE, BUT I DON’T KNOW THOSE WELL ENOUGH TO TELL YOU THE EACT ACTIONS HE HAS BORROWED. IT DOESN’T MATTER. THE FACT IS FRED’S 4-1 FORMATION AND ACTIONS DOVETAILED SMOOTHLY WITH SELF’S CAROLINA PASSING OFFENSE FORMATIONS AND COMPLEMENTARY ACTIONS. WE KNOW THIS BECAUSE SELF PULLED PERRY OUT, AND WE SAW FRED DROP ONE OF HIS WINGS DOWN ON THE BASELINE AND PLAYED SOME BAD BALL. I FORGET WHICH TEAM IT WAS IN THE NBA, BUT I SAW ONE REP OF CHOP AND WEAVE TRIED THIS SEASON. I PROBABLY ONLY WATCHED 3 NBA GAMES THIS SEASON, SO I CAN’T SAY IF THEY ARE USING IT WIDELY, OR IT WAS JUST A ONE TIME EXPERIMENT BY SOME BORED NBA COACH. BUT ANY WAY YOU CUT IT, SELF IS STATE OF THE ART AND STUDIED, AND THE GUY MANY ARE COPYING. RECRUITS DON’T GO ELSEWHERE BECAUSE OF SELF’S OFFENSE. OR HIS DEFENSE. OR HIS WASP TONGUE. AND THEY DON’T COME BECAUSE OF HOW FUN HE CAN BE, OR HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE COPYING HIM. THEY COME BECAUSE OF SHOE LEANS AND BECAUSE OF THE NEED FOR A CERTAIN KIND OF COACHING/WEIGHT TRAINING HIS STAFF MAY PROVIDE AND BECAUSE THE HANDLERS KNOW THEY WON’T GET CORRUPTED AT KU, AND BECAUSE THE PLACE OOZES SOME TRADITION AND BECAUSE SELF WINS 84% and delivers branding games skillfully–at least that’s how it appears to me. But hey, maybe you’re right and everything I’m telling you is misperception on my part. We’re dealing mostly with appearances from the outside after all. But I read quite a lot for awhile and the few folks that followed my bread crumb trail of reading occasionally added to it. And few that actually did the reading seem to buy that what’s going on is simple, and that recruiting is solely dependent on a coach’s Pepsodent smile and gab with mothers the way it used to be once upon a time. The summer game and the Petroshoeco-agency complex and the OAD rule pretty much put the kabosh on simplicity. And the old ways long documented regarding recruiting corruption back in the 20th Century appear only to have grown more sophisticated, rather than eliminated. Unless I missed a major reform movement along the way. RockChalk!!!
@jaybate-1.0 Franks the toughest dude on the team. Whats that military analogy you like using? The Battle of some such or other? Yeah, Franks the guy upfront on the front. First one over the hill. " Men of 5, still alive through the raging glow, gone insane from the pain that they surely know! For whom the bell tolls!"
YES, THE INFLATION IN TICKET PRICES IS SO GREAT THAT IF THEY WERE COUNTED IN THE GOVERNMENT’S INFLATION INDEX THEY WOULD BE IMMEDIATELY REMOVED FROM THE INFLATION INDEX AND REPLACED BY SOMETHING THAT INFLATED LESS!!
For whom the bell tolls!"
Okay, in Frank we trust.
Let’s get some coins minted.
@jaybate-1.0 why are you shouting?
TOO JUICE THINGS A LITTLE GOING INTO THIS GOD AWFUL AND SUPERFLUOUS CHAMPIONSHIP WEEK.
I am noticing a tendency to look past this 3 in 3 thing, which we all rightly wish didn’t exist.
The team and fans are primed and ready for the Tourney.
But losing energy and focus now could break the spell for the tourney.
@jaybate-1.0 WELL OKAY!
@jaybate-1.0 I remember when (whos?) Uncle Sam did that in the 1980’s on a fairly regular basis. One year the healthcare industry, the next year the real estate business-yada, yada. They were trying to keep inflation down & controlling the wages & salaries in the post Carter inflation years & it ticked me off. Our profit sharing was always tied to the CPI so for 20+ years we got what the little boy shot at…