Of Defending Hield with Mason, and Officiating
First, one of KU’s two weaknesses is how short its starting front line is. I get to master the obvious out loud now, because Lon Kruger exposed this weakness for 55 minutes last night. And, no, I am not going to divulge the other, though most already recognize it.
Help. No. Enemy.
Self masks the “perimeter size issue” by swapping Greene and Svi in and out as often as the score permits (not as often as he probably would hope), and by switching the muscular Selden around on different taller guys, but the length issue is there as obvious as Boothe Hall obscuring the presence of Allen Field House in televised views of the old girl’s front facade.
So: it was only a matter of time until some long 2/medium 3 with a dead eye from trifectaville that could also put it on the deck went off against KU’s little perimeter BIG time.
Buddy Hield was the just the guy to do it.
But why in the name of all that is sacred in man to man defense did Bill Self answer The Human High Mobility Howitzer that is Buddy Hield with a guy–Frank Mason–that is a half a foot shorter?
Lots have been asking this question the day after having wondered it during the game.
The answer in the swelter of the game was not obvious to most but Self.
But after the 103 degree fever of that game has passed, it comes quickly clear.
And it wasn’t entirely that at half time ever confident 6-0 Frank said, “I’ll take him coach.”
6-7 Brannen Greene, or 6-8 Svi Mykailiuk, could have said, “I’ll take him coach” and Self would not have submitted to the longest experiment (a half and three five minute overtimes) in counter-intuitive defensive assignments since 6-2 Warren Armstrong (aka Warren Jabali) once upon a time was asked to guard a center, or two, not just jump center.)
The answer is that Self was following one of the oldest defensive strategies (or tactics if you prefer to talk in more localized terms) in basketball.
If a team cannot stop a good player on a great night, or a great player on any night, instead of focusing the entire defensive effort on that unstoppable player, the coach assigns one guy to him, figuring great player is going to torch no matter who guards him, and said coach focuses instead on holding down the other guys to offset the inevitable onslaught.
It works sometimes and not others.
Last night it worked barely.
KU really locked down the OU interior.
And what almost sunk KU at home was NOT Hield’s 46, but OU’s fine guard Jordan Woodard going off for 27!!!
You see the idea of assigning Frank to Hield the second half was not only to give Hield a different, up and under defensive approach, but Selden and Graham were supposed to strangle the guys they were re-assigned to. This was not accomplished in the case of Woodard. Woodard was supposed to wind up with something like 15 points the hard way.
Woodard’s great play, frankly farther beyond his envelope than Hield was beyond his, was why KU almost lost one of the most memorable multiple overtime games in AFH in my recollection.
Many ask what was the decisive moment? What tipped the game to KU? A thread has even been dedicated to it.
My answer in the other thread was that this game was full of too much back and forth, too much brilliant maneuvering by coaches and too much never say die in too many players to declare a tipping point.
And that is what I believe.
But if you challenged my manhood and said, yea, but 'bate 1.0, get off the fence, man up, and pick a turning point, tipping point, etc., well, then I would not hesitate.
The turning point of the game was when Woodard fouled out.
Without Woodard, OU was never going to win that game in the overtimes without KU completely imploding, or the refs taking over the game completely in favor of OU.
Regarding refereeing, I know many board rats were outraged, and maybe I am just growing used to this sort of foul calling, but in the end, when they call 22 on us and 22 on them and we are both putting players on the floor for extended stretches, well, I just figure it sucks, but that is the way basketball is officiated in the apparent age of petroshoeco-agent complex reign. Compared to the ridiculous asymmetry in foul calling that we are going to face in the NCAA tournament, this was a gem of a job by the officials.
And in the zebras defense, something they deserve relatively little of IMHO these days, there really was a lot of brainy shizz going on on that court from the moment that it started getting really rough for a stretch the second half. These were two experienced teams with wily coaches that knew how to dish it out and take it, and do a lot of simultaneous fouling that the refs could not possibly call double fouls on often enough to stop the exploits. All that roughness was to referees kind of like both coaches and their teams laying a heavy smoke screen on a battlefield before the real advancing and clashing of combat took place for all the marbles down the stretch. Both coaches appeared rather macho about all of this. Self and Kruger were, after all, playing for the Okie Ball Crown, and they didn’t want the contest decided in the end by a bunch of bungling referees of dubious objectivity in the current age. Self and Kruger appeared to be saying, we’ll both foul so much that you striped weasels will have to swallow your whistles down the stretch, and we men of Okie Honor, will then coach and have our teams play the game the way it was meant to be played, so help us, Iba.
By the time the smoke screen was cleared, the refs were completely bamboozled by two of the craftiest coaches in the game today. Sometimes I almost thought Self and Kruger had jointly decided to show the NCAA and officials the level of exploits possible in their “new rules” and their old fashioned ways of enabling new rules that can be twisted into pretzels by referees come March to ensure a desirable TV product in terms of which teams advance and which are weeded out by the asymmetries of pretzel logic (are you reeling in the years?).
But no one will ever live long enough to get anyone to open up and talk candidly enough about contemporary officiating to know for sure what kind of monkey business is, or is not, going on, until there is true regime change and reform. And if there hasn’t been that by now, after some of the disgraces of the last two March Madnesses, one wonders when such change could ever come, unless perhaps in the Roentgen soaked cinders and ash of Post WWIII?
Symmetrically bad officiating seems the best we can hope for, until that time, Eustiss, until that time.
madmaxKU last edited by
I will say I don’t know how the refs cold miss the foul on Wayne’s transition dunk on two OU players. Lattin from OU practically pulled Selden off the rim and could have in an alternate universe really hurt or injured him. Even Selden was wide eyed looking around for the call afterwards. Also I forget who brought it up already, but Mason blatantly got hit across the head and contact down low for the game winner at the end of regulation… the ref was right there and chose not to call it, but was chomping at the bit to call an over the back on Lucas. It definitely felt like the refs were trying to gift wrap a loss for us, but luckily a 52% foul shooter was sent to the line.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
So what you’re saying is guard Hield with one guy, and I think it was @drgnslayr or @VailHawk who said that Frank actually did a good job on Hield, so that several other sooners don’t beat us. OK, I like it.
So what you’re saying is Self and Lon decided to hack away so that the refs would finally get tired of whistles and let them play. If so, it worked better for us than them.
So what you’re saying is that, well, RCJHKU! What a game!
I put nothing past the referees in these days of whistled shibboleths .
They have IMHO created this situation of doubt by their own observable behaviors, regardless of what their actual motives may be.
But if they thought they could throw a game in Allen Field House by ending with a foul count that was even up, then we are not only a game ruled by fools, but refereed by them also.
But the part of your remarks that are so, so, SO very important is that part of about how near Wayne Selden was to serious injury. Frankly, I saw what appeared to be many very unsafe situations that the referees appeared unwilling, or unable, to take steps to reduce further risk of. I consider both teams very lucky not to have had a player incur a serious injury.
madmaxKU last edited by
Completely agree… it’s a different situation when Jamari goes for a two handed block against the backboard and ends up on his back by his own doing. Then his other block of the night was a clean block with no body contact that ended with an OU player on his back. It’s a completely different animal when a defender misses on a play and puts other player in jeopardy.you simply can’t miss that as a ref… especially when there are 3 refs out there.
@jaybate-1.0 spoke with the head of officials for Nebraska highschool basketball years back. We got to talking about calls on non-calls. Said it wasn’t like football where you can pick up the flag and wave it off. In basketball once the whistle blows you have to make a call. He continued talk about the worst thing an official could do is anticipate a call. Be it a block or charge or a reach in. He said when you do that you have lost the ability to let it play out. But a lot of guys do. He ref fed a HS game of Eric Stricklamd who went on to Iowa and the NBA for years. Stricklamd got a steal at half court, dribbled to the rim from the right side. Their pg was maybe 5-10. Strickland took off right I front of this kid. He said he thought for sure Stricklamd was going to take him out so he blew his whistle and began to signal charge when he looked and saw him go higher and higher not touching the opponent and dunking. Usually the ref blows the whistle and half the fans base is happy. He said in this moment the whole crowd was booing him. Stricklamd went up to him and told him not to have a make up call it would be to obvious and walked away with a smile. Would actually like to sit with him and watch a game now a days. See what he thinks of guys.
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@JRyman I officiated basketball for like 16 yrs, very hard. there is so much that goes on, on the floor, even the fans that sit on the 1st row in the arena that thinks they have the perfect view, have NO IDEA how much they are missing tell you actually get out on the floor with the players and inner mix actually on the floor. the one thing you find out very quickly as an official when you make a call, you better make it with authority, you better know 110% for sure when you raise that arm and close fist, you better know Exactly what you got, if you hesitate in your calls your screwed, then the fans think on a rule, this guy has no idea why he blew his whistle, and now he is just making something up while he is going to the scorers table. You have to be very confident in your calls, KNOW what you have called. I know when I officiated before the game started when we met with the captains on the floor, I would always tell them guys lets have a clean played game, move your feet, don’t reach, you reach don’t slide your feet, your gonna get called. We always had tendenacy to call it a little closer in the beginning of a game, players caught on pretty quick we were calling it close, it cleaned up a lot of cheap shots, bad play over all. Found out it was a hell of a lot easy to loosen up later in the game, then trying to call tighter later in the game, because you call it tighter early then you don’t have to worry about that crap later. Ideally in the perfect scenario, you shouldn’t even realize there are officials on the floor, we should NEVER be the lead of a conversation instead of the game itself. It is very hard to officiate a game, players have become so tall, so mobile, so quick. but hey tell you what, I officiated for as long as I did because the love of the game, it kept me close to what I lived for after I could play no longer, kept me close to what I have a passion for, not only that but it help keep me fit, and in shape. The average official it figures out to be will run 5 miles a game, that’s high school game so college would be more because of longer length. but as always ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Blown last edited by Blown
@jaybate-1.0 I was curious as to why Lon didn’t have Hield post Mason up more. It appeared to me he was giving up a lot of height. Maybe Lon thought he was going to get his anyway and didn’t need to go out of the way to run any offense like that. I did see in either the last two minutes of OT 2 or 3 that he ran a play to get Hield isolated on the block against Mason, but nothing else.
The most enjoyable thing to me last night was not only was this a fantastic basketball game. But that it was played by 2, 3, and 4 year guys, whom I’ve grown accustomed to and have appreciated their development and growth. There is more of a connection there for me, and imo, lends to caring more about the ‘W’ than had I had in the last 2-3 years when the teams focus has been on the OAD Star.
Fun game to watch. Wish I had more time to read through all the comments and read Buckets’ thoughts.
@Blown I agree! Hopefully young players could see that. I think Bragg does.
wrwlumpy last edited by wrwlumpy
ESPN pundits were talking about the game today and Seth Greenberg said that when Mason began guarding Buddy, he did an incredible job. He said it sounds stupid to say when Buddy ended up with 46, but Frank was in his grill with fantastic position. The Bulldog did his job. Buddy was just lights out.
I used to referee quite a bit for pocket money, when I was in college. Little league stuff and adult city league and a few AAU tournament games for K-12 grade age. Never interscholastic, or college stuff.
I have a great respect for referees that are honest, trying to do their best, and being allowed to try to do their best, same as I have for professionals in all field that fit the same criteria.
I have never had any discomfort with refs missing calls occasionally. I did and every ref I ever worked a game with did, too.
There is an art to refereeing a game so that coaches and players can be the best they can be within the rules.
This always sounds odd to persons, when I say this, but referees need the rules as much, if not more than the coaches and the players, need them in order to orchestrate a good contest.
Refs need the limits of the rules set in stone, so that they can focus on interacting with players and coaches in positive, assertive ways that enable coaches and players to concentrate on doing what they do best, rather than on riding refs, countering refs, or scheming to manipulate refs.
Once coaches and players know they can’t manipulate you, then they focus on coaching and playing far more. And when they focus on coaching and playing the game improves sharply.
A ref who is put in the position that many were reputedly admitted to have been put in a few seasons ago, i.e., of using their whistles (and not using them) to modulate games into broadcast windows, is in quick sand.
A ref is not supposed to have to interpret the rules.
He is supposed to have to interpret the play.
Was the play consistent with the rules, or in violations of them?
A ref should not have to (nor should he be given the discretion to) decide which rules should be called under what conditions; this is the slippery slope of all officiating. The refs I used to dread working with most were the ones that claimed to know when to call it looser and when to call it tighter.
Just call it! That’s hard enough.
They invariably slid down into subjectively judging teams and players and into ridiculously inconsistent foul calling and it was their games that play declined into disorder and chaos in. Bad games to watch, bad games to coach and play in, and bad games to try to restore order to.
My kind of ref is one that goes out and stays out of the players ways, listens to brief requests by players and coaches to watch out for this or that, makes some small talk with players and coaches acknowledging how lucky they and he are to be involved in the greatest game ever invented, and makes calls dispassionately and doesn’t dwell on either the missed calls, or the missed perceptions of the calls.
My very favorite referee was a guy who always said to coaches complaining about calls, “Ok, coach, the game’s starting again.” Those were the most powerful words in a refs vocabulary. It was awesome how that little phrase directed coaches on to next. Basketball is a moment to moment activity. It keeps unfolding. You can complain if you want, but you better be a part of its present, rather than hanging back and focusing on what just happened, or you’re going to lose, whether the calls are good, bad, or indifferent. When coaches see that look in your eye that you are starting the game on them, and that you really, REALLY, aren’t listening to their protestations, man does it refocus them in a hurry. No arguing. No debating. No listening. We’re here to referee a game, not a debate. This baby is going to be born with you or without you, Coach. Same with the complaining players. When the ref stays in the moment and keeps the game in the moment, people better think next, or else.
I’m a now kind of guy, when I parent, work, play, or write. I am in the moment even when I am reflecting about the past. The past only has meaning to me as an element of this moment. Stay with me coach, or you will be in a moment is gone, while the game and I are in the only moment you have a chance in.
But how can a referee act in the moment and insist on coaches and players staying in the moment, if he has to decide which rules to call and not call in this moment? Its nonsense. The powers that be in NCAA basketball are probably lawyers and not judges. Lawyers work on billable time and make their livings arguing points. Good for them. But judges decide and keep the trial moving in the moment. Referees are judges of a kind. Like judges, they better know the rules that apply and apply them correctly. The more we shift officiating to situational rule calling, and replays, and re-interpretation, become the substance of officiating, referees lose their most powerful tool for “controlling” a game. “The ball is in play” trumps everything. It makes both coaches and players run to catch up. It makes them think about coaching and officiating rather than about refereeing. A good referee does not want them thinking about him. He wants them thinking about their opponent.
A good referee has great compassion and love for coaches and players. Fans? Not so much. Not dislike. Or contempt. He just knows that fans are homers. They can’t help it and he knows it.
But I love all coaches and players. Heck, much as I bust Scott Drew for not being a very good coach, he is still a coach, and so I love the guy. Coaches teach the game. Coaches find players and help them get better. Coaches stay up late at night trying to figure out how to make one group of boys in shorts put a round ball through a hoop more often than another group of boys in shorts. Coaches don’t go to the office and try to figure out how to destroy cities, or deny health care to millions of persons, or deceive persons into thinking another country needs to be knocked over by killing a bunch of persons. Coaches can be serious pricks, alright, because they do tend to be control freaks, but come on! They are trying to steal possessions, not the assets under recognized by accounting conceits and market perceptions. Coaches run around blowing smoke up the cabooses of kids and their parents about how great the kid is and how good mom’s cooking is. Coaches schmooze with agent runners and look the other way at agents, or hire those agents to be their own agents, so those agents can clip some fees in a year or three. Coaches, the good ones, keep their hands off the co-eds and they help young guys keep from self destructing for a few years. What’s not to love about coaches? Shoot I would have loved refereeing a game with Bob Knight. I would have talked quail hunting with him, and everytime he threw a tant, or got in my face shouting, I would have handed the ball to a kid and put the ball in play and watched him run away coaching the next play. And if he ever grabbed one of his players in my game and shook him around, I would have walked over and said, “I love ya, Bob, and I want you to see my bird dog go on point, but I am as honest as you are and I don’t allow any kids to be roughed up by coaches in the games I officiate. You touch a boy again, and I will throw you and your top assistant out of the game and your guys will take a loss because of you. Now I’m putting the ball in play coach.” And Coach Knight would go rumbling down the sideline to exhort his guys on how to make better wing point entry passes and he would do brilliant things that would make me hold him in awe and he would needle my ass up one side and down the other but not another boy would be grabbed and shaken around. And we would go hunting that off season, and we would needle the shit out of each other, and I would hear some of the greatest stories about basketball one could ever hear.
But in an era when the refs are calling it this way this time of season, and that way that time of season, and this way with this group of teams, and that with that group of teams, well, how could I hold my head up high enough to even look Bob Knight in the eye and say the magic words, the only ones that mean anything at all to him. “I’m as honest as you are, Coach.”
This is why the game has to be cleaned up.
The refs need the rules as much as the players and the coaches.
That’s some of what I’m saying.
But hacking favored us in the end, despite us probably taking the worst of the hacking.
Because we appeared to be able to endure more of the hacking without losing a critical player, even after 3 overtimes.
OU lost Woodard.
Self won the gambit.
Self is an odd duck. For all his talk about manning up and not getting pushed around, often what he is really saying is we’ve got to be willing to take more punishment than them. In that game, taking some serious licks advanced us down a path toward OU’s only serious disadvantage against us. They really couldn’t afford to lose Woodard to fouls.
And guess who fouled out!
Based on points allowed, Devonte and Selden apparently did as good of a job on Hield as Frank did.
What broadcasters and board rats are overlooking about Hield’s performance is that he got 6 assists in addition to his 46 points!!! Six assists on a 46 point night is what is REALLY unusual for a scorer on a tear.
The only way to give any of the KU guys an edge in the job they did on Hield would be to see which of the guys allowed Hield the least assists. If Hield got fewer assists while being guarded by Frank, I would be okay with giving Frank the lion’s share of the credit. Otherwise not.
I have already mentioned the big reason Self went to Mason on Hield. He knew he couldn’t stop Hield with any of his guys, so the real question was, which one of his guys had strong enough ego to take the torching and keep on ticking in the other aspects of his game?
The first half, Devonte was completely unnerved by what Hield did to him. Even as a freshman, I never saw Devonte come unglued by an opponent that way. I am not talking here about Devonte not being able to shut down, or even contain Hield. I am talking about the 6-3 Devonte becoming so demoralized that he could not play decent on offense against whomever OU put on him, and it was often Hield the first half. But once Devonte quit having to guard Hield, Devonte began to get back in the flow of the game, find his rhythm, and get enough confidence back to become a scoring threat again. That was HUGE for KU. KU without Devonte at least gluing the offense together is in real trouble, and really needs him to be able to score to be solid. Pulling Devonte out of that scorching fire of Hield let him get it back together. Score one for Self.
Self accomplished the same thing with Selden, also. By getting the psychologically vulnerable Selden off from guarding the human blow torch of Hield, Selden regained his dignity and composure the second half, also. So: another way of answering why Self put Frank on Hield, was that while Frank’s scoring suffered guarding Hield and he did not hold him any better than Selden and Graham did, Selden and Graham anecdotally appeared to regain their poise by being freed from Hield. That’s a two for one deal, if ever there were one. Frank doesn’t rattle much. He is the most consistent guy on this team. Adversity is a course of the meal that he shrugs off. Selden and Graham are skittish thoroughbreds by comparison. They need the conditions right to play well.
Self read this situation RIGHT!
Lulufulu last edited by
@jaybate-1.0 OMFG KU won that game of historic proportions between two teams that can both contend for a National Title in March. It is a huge win for KU. Huge!! This win has conference implications written all over it and its just two games into the season. The second season as Coach Self calls it.
C5 tallied 17 & 17. Traylor played with 'em hangin out. Why did Mick get short leashed?
Even though Devonte’ and Frank are undersized, they both played lights out. Yah, Woodard netting 27 was big but Devonte’ netted 22 of his own and Frank did a hell of a job against Buddy, I thought.
It been since Kevin Durant or Beasley or Griffin since we have had to fight through that kind of offensive production. Buddy is a pro and Mason was in his jock the whole friggin way.
Honestly, I havent read anyone elses posts here yet cuz its taken me this long to digest the game. But I truly believe if KU can win a game against a team like OU that can win it all, that KU can also cut down the nets in April.
I was curious as to why Lon didn’t have Hield post Mason up more. It appeared to me he was giving up a lot of height.
This was Kruger’s big, enormous, gargantuan, XTRemely LARGE, immense, vast, A. fragillimis sized mistake IMHO.
But this is a mistake that Self ALWAYS makes.
And my guess is this is a mistake that Kruger ALWAYS makes.
That is my way of saying not posting up guards is a philosophical/strategic POV in Okie Ball in this era that borders on the ideological and doctrinaire in the rigidity of their adherence to it.
Now let me be perfectly frank.
NOT POSTING UP SHORT PERIMETER PLAYERS WITH LONG PERIMETER PLAYERS IS STUPID!
I have as big of a bee in my bonnet about this issue, as @HighEliteMajor has had about Self not playing to his three ball strengths in past years.
But where as Self will be a tiny bit flexible about trey balling, when he has 5 players that can pot the triceratop, after a lot of public flagellation for not triggering trifectas, I am quite confident that I will leave this mortal coil and then Lon Kruger and Bill Self will leave this mortal coil without so much as a budge on this issue.
Why should Kruger have posted Hield? To foul out KU’s perimeter players assigned to him before KU fouled out Woodard; that’s why!
Kruger could have had all of Hield’s points plus fouled out most of KU’s short perimeter players, AND upped his over all FG % to 50% and beaten the snot out of KU had he done this. Self would have adjusted, but it just would have meant that Woodard would have scored another ten points and never have fouled out.
Kruger. Should. Have. Posted. Hield. Up.
As sure as the Pope should ex communicate all the pedophiles.
But there just are certain actions that are too traumatizing to the dogma and to those believe in the dogma ever to be taken. Period.
To post up a guard is apparently sacrilegious to these two Okie Ballers.
I don’t know why it is.
Jack Hartman sinned.
Jack Hartman posted Walt Frazier at SIU.
Jack Hartman was a notorious heretic, though.
Jack simply quit recruiting more than one good player for a season.
He found that more than one good player was not really necessary for him to enjoy coaching and go fishing.
So, I guess, Jack Hartman is viewed as one of those gnostic, or hermetic pagan types that early Christians and even mainstream pagans found too unnerving not to exclude.
Self apparently would give up man to man defense before he would post up a guard.
I always harbored a hope and a prayer that Lon was not so rigid, but, alas, he is as orthodox on this as they come.
@Blown, I may not get there with you, but I want you to know; that we as a basketball people are going to get to the promised land of posting perimeter players. I have a dream…
@madmaxKU Jarmari was partly taken out down low…not saying it was dirty, but he was swept out if I recall correctly.
@Bwag but no foul called!
kjayhawks last edited by
I was disappointed in the officiating, but I think it leveled out by the end of the game. In regards to Mason on hield, I think he did a good job keeping him outta the paint off of drives and staying in front but hield is so much taller he was able to shoot over him. I’m honestly ticked at ESPN, because of the adding of controvery to by show masons steal like that was the only bad call. Gottlieb pulled the same crap. But when duke gets a favorable call all is good and well. This team has to start rebounding better and delevop a inside presence for me to pick them beyond the sweet 16.
@kjayhawks This is all the inside presence we will get this year, but doing everything else well negates that defficiency, like Uconn in '14 and Duke in '10. Both of those teams played smart, made open shots, made free throws, rebounded well, and played tremendous defense. This team will be fine as long as they focusing on improving the little things.
@Crimsonorblue22 may be deemed incidental contact that aggravated Traylor being in such a vulnerable position. I’d have to go back and watch again.
@jaybate-1.0 I disagree. I thought with all you said against Mason and for Hield, Mason did a hell of a job on Hield. You might go back and watch Mason against Hield again. Hield didn’t get much when Mason played that little man defense. He bothered Hield all night. He got into Hield’s head. The only time Hield was able to separate from Mason was when Mason was mugged or cheated. I loved Mason’s defense against Hield. He was the best answer last night.
@wrwlumpy Yes, yes and yes on Mason, I agree tons with Greenberg on his analysis. Hield was getting really frustrated with Mason. LOVED IT.
@jaybate-1.0 If Selden would’ve stayed on Hield, Selden would’ve fouled out. This is why Selden came out and Self switched his defensive option on Hield.
@jaybate-1.0 Post Hield? Post Buddy Freakin’ Hield? Either Hield creates off a screen and makes shots in rhythm or he drives. Buddy Hield is not a post player. He could’ve posted on my 4’ son and wouldn’t make one shot. Hield is improved but not post improved. Kruger didn’t post Hield, because it would be a huge mistake to post him against anyone.
@Bwag I’m watching the game replayed on cox. Mari did go thru net after the guy was fouled by bg(?) not to the Mari hitting the floor yet.
@Crimsonorblue22 Yep. He goaltended on that play.
I was referencing the block against the backboard when he fell hard. I think his feet were bumped while extended.
truehawk93 last edited by truehawk93
It was an ugly game, but a gut check for KU. I was encouraged. I hope we can win those games that ugly, but win all the same. I really think the MSU game was a kind of prep for this game. Valentine is, in my humble opinion, a better player than Hield. Valentine is a team player and knows when to step it up a notch. This is why MSU has been successful. If Hield watches Valentine, he might become a better player.
BTW…I don’t want to face MSU at all. They’ve been the bane of KU’s success in years past. I don’t know what it is about Izzo. He is Self’s kryptonite.
I watched the video of Frank deflecting and stealing the in bounds pass. It may go on all the time, but his hand was right on the ball. No wonder he was able to steal it. I would not be surprised that this practice gets some extra attention now. I’m not sure about the rules, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the ref could allow another inbounds play if you do what Frank did. Also, if we want to continue to use that technique…Frank probably shouldn’t have acknowledged that he moved up to the line after the ref handed the ball over.
@Bwag I know, someone said earlier about the goal tending. They didn’t show it in AFH. I don’t know how anyone can listen to these guys. Called diallo dillo at the beginning.
I watched the video of Mason deflecting Hield’s in bound pass. This may be a common occurrence but Frank’s hand was right on the ball as Hield extended his arms. You can see how it would be easy to deflect the pass. I would not be surprised if this tactic gets some scrutiny now. I would imagine that the ref could give them a chance to re-do the inbound pass in these circumstances. If we like using this tactic (stepping next to the line after the opponent takes the ball from the ref), Frank probably shouldn’t have called attention to what he did.
@jaybate-1.0 On your point about posting guards I will add some anecdotal evidence. Late in the second half (maybe overtime) Buddy posted Mason on his own, dribbling into it and backing him down. Mason played great defense, forced a tough shot but the refs called a foul. Mason stomped around furious because it looked like pretty good defense. But this does suggest that had Hield posted a few more times, we might have lost Frank.
Second, I have now witnessed Self run a play 4 or 5 times this season (that I have noticed) that isolates Selden on the low block, posting a smaller guard. There was even one this game (it didn’t work). In previous games this has had varying results. One easy layup that I can remember, another turn around jumper that went in, and a few times where the ball never made it to him, or he passed out after receiving it.
So I wouldn’t say never!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for calling my attention to Selden being posted!!! That makes my day!!!
This is what is so great about this board. Not just the debates but the assists like yours just now. No one sees everything.
@jaybate-1.0 You are welcome! For future reference, these instances are most common right after halftime, and occasionally out of time outs. They are mostly one offs and haven’t seemed to be repeated in the half even if they were successful.
Agreed. A coach I knew used to coach this tactic AND coach the counter tactic of pausing and telling the ref the defensive player is touching the ball or line, or both. The ref has to intervene. The counter counter is the offensive player was crowding the sideline to close and stepped on the line. And so on.
Refs get the game.
Good refs iterate between watching feet and hands.
It looked to me like Frank played it perfectly.
Here is how it appeared to me he did it, but I haven’t studied replays.
He is short and a great leaper with decent arm length for his height.
His feet were back far enough.
He has great anticipation as he shows on every rebound.
He positioned feet so at the top of the jump with arms at 45 degrees (instead of straight up) his hands were near the line.
He jumped extra high.
He knew how far to reach.
Hield was 6-6 so the ref was not expecting a block.
Hield was crowding the line unwisely, thinking he was taller.
Frank jumped AND REACHED OUT.
Ball tipped at line.
Tie goes to David, not Goliath.
Ask Wilt Chamberlain about that issue, when we all get to heaven.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
Here is the fist block by Jamari; hopefully the link works.
Here is the second where he hit the ground hard