You damn right there is insanity. You don’t hire a sane man who is willing to accept a multimillion dollar contract when he knows full well that eventually his legs will be dangling knee deep into a boiling cauldron. That is the very nature of the job at hoops powers like Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky, UCLA. Just ask Roy or Bobby or Tubby or Ben. Or now our very own Bill. You think Bill and Cyn aren’t thinking about packing bags and the golf clubs to escape the flames? They gotta be a tough and very solid family unit to weather such a current firestorm. If I were Bill Self I am dead certain that the moment Tyler accepts his degree, I would wave a hasty goodbye. And I speak from experience. Bill is a tough hombre, a lockdown believer in his methods and understanding of The GAME. Man O Man, is he ever coming up against some fierce obstacles. Give me 3 to 1 odds and I will lay a twenty dollar bill on his departure, come May.
jayballer54 last edited by
@REHawk Good point, I hear you,I personally don’t believe he will, but here is the question? would you blame him? We have so, so many arm chair coaches who seem to have all the perfect resolutions, ALL the answers, easy to throw blame, I have always said dam, if your such the Einstein in coaching knowing, wh don’t you just stroll down to the KU athletic dept lay down your outstanding basketball coaching resume and flat out tell them I’m here to take over the KU head coaching position on the men’s basketball program. I’m sure they will gladly take your application, Hell probably even let Coach Self interview himself. Seriously would you blame the guy for leaving after this? He loves this university, any man that turns down his own alma mater O.S.U when they came calling with an open blank check pretty much saying fill in the amount, he has said this is the meca, ya that’s it let us have him leave and see who replace him with. I know maybe just maybe we can talk Bruce into leaving K-State that would be sweet I hoe the best for Bill. I am straight out behind the guy 100000000000 % ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Here is my litmus test…if’ he is gone and has enough of a bad taste in his mouth about the nature of his departure to finally answer T Boone’s calls and land in Stillwater,…do we want to face him 2-3 times a year!!!
For what it is worth I don’t think he goes to the NBA for reasons exactly like he just experienced with BG…multi-millionaire prima donnas and Bill Self would not be a good fit.
jayballer54 last edited by
@SoftballDad2011 Exactly, I really get tired of at the 1st sign and I know I’ll hear well this isn’t the 1st sign but seems everyones simple answer is FIRE THE COACH this comes from people who have no idea the entire situation, there is no way no one you, me anybody knows the entire story unless your with the team everyday, unless your on the inside, practices, conditioning, games, classes, everything. What I do know is that it is a privilege for a player to be on the team any team not just KU he is getting a paid way, a full ride for a degree while getting to do what these guys surposing love to do. Yet you have some that come in and want to challenge the coach and his decisions, that’s not the way it works. But you are 100% exactly right, wonder how it will feel when we come up against Coach if he is on the opposite side and there he is running his system inside out and just kicking our ass? But at least we will have the satisifaction of knowing and saying HEY I was one of the one’s that got him fired lmao, boy I bet that will make you look really good huh.
KansasComet last edited by
Bill Self will coach at Kansas as long as he wants to. It’s his job as long as he wants it. He is not going to win every game he coaches. He knows that and we know it too. It is just hard to accept. I expect to win every game we play. Losing is not fun. It never will be. We are happy when Kansas wins and upset and looking for someone to blame on losses. Coach Self knows that and accepts that. He will keep trying to win as many games as he can using his style, while continuing to cash checks with a smile on his face along the way.
drgnslayr last edited by
I think it helps to read how Self took the position at Kansas.
He is a stubborn man. That personality trait is a big reason why he is being “kicked around” recently.
He is also NOT a quitter!
I don’t see him leaving Kansas unless it is for a better job. What job would that be? It certainly wouldn’t be going home to OSU…
Bill is tough. He can handle criticism without a problem… you might even consider that he handles criticism a little too well!
Self needs to look in the mirror and resign right now. He needs a change in scenery and KU needs new fresh blood at the top. His adamant personality is only hurting the program now. Its time to move on and to be honest I have no problem if he goes to OKC. The new coach will be fired up to beat him. KU BB will move on. Its time for a change.
jaybate 1.0 last edited by
I will go you one better.
He will be the coach of Duke, if Consonants retires the end of this season, or next, and he can get out of his adidas contract, or if it is a rolling, seasonal one year kind of contract.
IMHO, the key to Self’s future departure from KU is the length of his adidas contract and his ability, or inability to extricate himself from it.
If he can get out of the adidas contract, and Consonants is stepping down, then Self goes to Duke and signs with Nike.
If he is married to adidas, then its off to the pros.
My hunch is Duke.
Duke and Self are a perfect fit.
Bilas has been laying the ground work for several years now.
I actually think the deal was supposed to happen a couple of seasons back, but then all hell appeared to break loose between Nike and adidas and that temporarily stonewalled any cooperation between them regarding accommodating Self’s move.
Self moving to Duke would solve a lot of problems for Nike.
Self would continue Duke as one of two epicenters of college basketball; the other being UK. Nike needs two epicenters. Every principle always has to have two agents to avoid becoming too beholden to one.
Self at Duke would continue to keep Roy and the semi-autonomous Air Jordan sub brand of Nike on the hot seat at UNC, so that Nike could finally find a way to shorten the leash on Air Jordan/UNC.
Self at Duke would clear the way for Nike-Texas, Nike-Baylor and Nike-ISU to dominate the B12.
Self at Duke would even free adidas from having to stay married to a CST anchor and free up its huge commitment to KU and allow it to go courting another EST anchor team.
Self at Duke would help the NCAA by it no longer having to worry about the father of college basketball dragging down ratings each season by commanding so much coverage from it being an 82% winner. It would also free the NCAA seeding committee of having to always try to find a way of early-outing KU to keep better TV draws in the tournament.
Self at Duke would massively help ESPN/CBS/Fox by KU falling by the way side regular season and not being invited to play in the Champion’s Classic, not playing in the Madness so often, and not taking up so many Big Monday and Game Day deals. Fewer small eyeball games.
Self at Duke would massively help Big Gaming. More betters in Texas if Texas schools start doing better in the B12 with Self gone.
And the beauty for all of these players is that even if Self were then S-Canned at Duke after two years, well, then KU would still be out of the picture, unless they lucked out and found a great coach that wanted to recruit under onerous recruiting constraints. Would Self have ever come to KU under these conditions? Not.
Self to Duke.
You read it here first.
I have no insider information.
I have read nothing to substantiate it yet.
I am only looking at the career and business logic of the major players that appear to shape the game right now and have hypothesized based on it.
Look at the Coach Consonant disciples. There’s no one that is even remotely likely to be a great coach ready to keep Duke at the high level that its been.
Jeff Capel, or Self?
Johnny Dawkins, or Self?
Go on down the list.
Self towers over anyone of the disciples of Consonants.
And Self is huge on education and making players go to class, which Consonants has sold long and hard.
And the Edmond Kid has an Okie accent that can be quickly modified to more Y’alls.
And there has never been an Okie Baller that has been head coach at Duke and it appears part of the Okie Baller religion to take it to all the citadels of college basketball for Mr. Iba.
I mean how much would Duke like to have a handsome, easy to market coach for a change?
Self lacks the Army thing, but he has completely embraced the Marine Corp imagery and the Corp sells big time in the Carolinas.
And he and Cin could have a real plantation, not just a big McMansion.
And Bill could beat Roy like a stick for a few years and be king of tobacco road on a regular basis.
Bill needs players.
Nike-Duke has them.
Nike-Duke needs someone that can take the heat of replacing a legend.
Bill replaced a legend at KU once already…and did better.
This is why I have been harping on KU needing the B12 to get an EST footprint, why KU needs to solve its Big Shoe issue, why KU has to find a way for Self to get draft choices to Lawrence at the 1, 3, and 5 each season every season.
Gotta do it.
Or Bill’s gone.
Will KU get another good coach?
But they won’t get another great one unless they can find away to help him get more talent in than the circumstances currently enable.
It feels like THE LEGACY is moving to another tipping point, another pivotal moment.
Its not here quite yet.
But its coming.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@jaybate-1.0 well crap
@jaybate-1.0 WHEW!!! As usual, you are thinking a jump ahead of most of us, peering over the rim of the box. I have been thinking Self to Spurs; but Popovich does not look ready to chuck the towel yet. Self might not be the man for an NBA coaching job. A huge tussle of egos. Of course, there is probably a heap of oil money back home closer to Edmond. That can’t be completely ruled out, esp. if Kansas fan base turns on him big time (maybe after Kentucky departs AFH in January). In a very miniscule manner I, when much younger, experienced much of what he is going through. Damned sour taste at the time; and some of it lingers. I was a confident determined guy who was locked into doing things which had led to my success; and I stood defiant in the face of heat. Did not view myself as a quitter, but chose to walk away while I retained sanity. Bill Self is a winner. In so many ways, right now he is up against formidable, even somewhat outlandish odds. I will follow the guy with a sense of empathy, whatever he decides, wherever he might eventually go. He has been absolutely super for the Jayhawk program; a class guy. Stubborn, but true to his beliefs; perhaps too inflexible, as most champions are. Larry Brown probably has been telling him these past 2 years: Hey, ol’ buddy, you are living on borrowed time! I don’t look to see Bill Self let the thing turn too ugly. Am certainly not suggesting that he close the Lawrence door. But if he decides to leave, I certainly understand. And will always revere his Jayhawk records.
user_RCJH last edited by
Anyone calling for Self to quit, retire, or hypothesize that Duke is his next coaching venue is nuts. For starters, who out there (that is available) would you want to bring in to fill the vacancy. This list is short and includes no one. The only thing that could rival the feeling I felt last year after the blowout loss to Kentucky would be Self announcing that he is retiring, going to the NBA, or moving on to another college team (like what???). I can’t even begin to think of anyone out there I would want to replace him, so please… lay off the caffeine and sugar. It’s one game. I’m as troubled as the next “concerned citizen” about what happened after the MSU game, but the season just started. There are many more games to be played, we are still in great position to take the Big12, and have a great shot at being a 1-2 seed in the big dance. When that doesn’t happen, start a thread about how the sky is falling. Until then, let the man with more conference titles then home losses throw some pixie dust on it and see what happens.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@user_RCJH can always use more pixie dust! Thanks!
jaybate 1.0 last edited by jaybate 1.0
How could anyone could think that Duke would NOT consider Self for its head coaching position, were Consonants to step down?
And if Self begins to perceive his treatment by KU leadership, alumni and fans to be at all career threatening, why in the world would Bill Self NOT at least consider the Duke job, if he received a feeler about it.
Let me be clear: Self is my guy and I’m behind him, beside him and in front of him. Period.
People need to understand that he is so good he could be gone in the blink of an eye.
The Duke job would seem to be coming up pretty soon. K may want to break Knight’s total seasons record. But he may not. This season may be enough for him. Maybe not. Hard to say. Could go 5-6 more years. May be take off the whistle in two seasons. Knight took a powder in the middle of a season. Lots can happen quickly in these sorts of situations.
If K had a disciple that he dearly wanted to have the job, he might hang on indefinitely to keep Duke from hiring a great coach like Self, and get the job for one of K’s disciples. But K is an Army guy and career Army guys are loyal to the Army, too. The Army is what goes on, not a specific officers’ relationships. K might want Duke to hire the best man and that could well be Self right now, if Self wanted the challenge.
IMHO, Duke is currently the best job in college basketball, much as I hate to admit it, unless and until KU can figure out a way to bring in the talent level that Duke does.
UK is a good job, but one gets the feeling that there may be a super fund site under it for the next coach to deal with.
Monday morning quarterbacking is good.
Disagreeing with strategy and tactics are good.
Challenging who is playing and who isn’t is good.
Trying to understand the dynamics of college sports, especially those dynamics that the mainstream media apparently choose never to touch with a ten foot pole is good.
Learning offenses and defenses is good.
But any criticism that argues that Self is anything but an exceptional coach laboring through a difficult stretch of obstacles apparently not constructed by him appears in XTReme Error to me at this time.
Any coach that came to KU under these recruiting circumstances would be laboring like crazy and probably not winning nearly as much.
By the way, I don’t recall your alias.
If you’re new, welcome.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
I just don’t see any scenario where Self goes to Duke, no way, no how, no ma’am. There are several former Duke players coaching college basketball and I suspect one of them would wend up at Duke…Amaker, Brey, Dawkins, Hurley, Wojciechowski… just to name a few, and they might even consider pretty boy Quin Snyder who is currently coaching the Utah Jazz in the NBA,
jaybate 1.0 last edited by
I used to hold your pov, which is still most probable, but…
Elite programs today are so valuable and so important to so many that it seems hard to believe Duke would dare entrust the program to any of the coaches you mention even though K might wish it. Hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake.
With Self Duke would be guarantied 82 to 85%, maybe 90%, plus several rings.
Duke has to have seen what happened to UNC after Dean left and they hired the weak candidates before getting Roy and winning two quick rings.
Self would be sure thing. So would Pitino, but Rick is a little long in the tooth.
drgnslayr last edited by drgnslayr
I’ve got family at Duke. Trust me when I say “K is King!”
I am willing to bet big bucks that K will help pick his predecessor. Duke is his baby. And Duke wouldn’t be diddly if K hadn’t come along. They owe it all to K.
No one can say 100% that Self couldn’t end up at Duke. I find it hard to believe though. His coaching style, even his accent… none of it is understood at Duke.
The first thing they would do at Duke is give Bill the nickname “cowboy.” A boy from Oklahoma… going to a school named “the cowboys”… the way he talks… and how he says things. He is definitely a Midwesterner… but to the folks back East, Midwest is West. And West to them means cowboys and indians. They probably think we all ride to work on horses.
Ask for any kind of opinion about the Midwest from someone back East. You will be shocked by their answers.
Second Prize last edited by
I love Bill Self but coaches do move on, take breaks, things happen. I think Self is one of the cleaner ones around. Would love to see him at Duke or one of the big schools. Maybe take over USA basketball after Pop. For all his pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses, I think he is a good ambassador of the game.
I also do not take him for granted. Other people’s down years they do not make the tournament even. Our down years we usually lose in the second round…
To me it just seems like we had a few guys in the last few recruiting classes who did not quite develop like expected, and had a lot leave early…Which left a bit of a void.
Embiid for example, was not even ranked in top 100 at first, the more people saw him play, the higher he rose. His “stock” rose like a rocket…Most thought we would have him a few years, Cole left his Junior year. The Twins…Some guards like Ben…
Then, some positives, we put some bigs in the league like Withey and Tarik Black, comeon…That is pretty cool.
The sky is not necessarily falling, just a couple years back did we not have 2 of the top 3 picks in the NBA draft?
What if we can soon run a lineup of Mason, Svi, Ellis, Bragg, Diallo and wave 2 of Devonte, Vick, Selden, Traylor, Hunter. I can dream.
HawksWin last edited by HawksWin
@jaybate-1.0 A question for you. Ok, I get Nike rules & funnels talent to UK, Duke. Another player to this money making machine is ESPN. That said, ESPN is faced with declining earning potential. ESPN signed huge mega contracts with many schools, and may be coming to bite them in their arses. Now let’s assume ESPN can’t pay what they promised or unable to up the ante on next contract. So FoxSports or another steps in & says to UK & Duke, we will pay less because ESPN was crazy & stupid for giving you that many millions & the eyeballs aren’t quite there anymore. Will Nike be willing to pay more to keep UK & Duke as media bails & refuse to pay premium for these prima donnas or simply go elsewhere looking for cheaper schools? Or do UK & Duke go looking for another sugar daddy? we know nothing stays the same forever & no corporation stays at the top forever - so I’m wondering how the decline of ESPN’s reign would change the formula with shoecos & UK/Duke.
user_RCJH last edited by user_RCJH
I can’t believe this debate is still on-going. Hypothetical situation… K is ready to retire and Duke phones Self to pitch him their best offer to come be the next head basketball coach in Krzyzewskiville (kinda makes you want to puke just thinking about it). How much money would it take for Self to literally burn his legacy in Lawrence into the ground- to go from one of the most beloved coaches in KU history to the coach everyone hates (not like there is a long list)? Seriously, whats the number? Quantify a figure because I can not for the life of me do so myself. I just refuse to believe that number exists. Forget it’s Duke-Kansas for a second. In major collegiate sports, can anyone cite an example of when a coach jumped from one elite program to another elite program under the asuspicion of slightly greener pastures without using “it’s my alma-matter calling” as an excuse? Unless someone can conjure one from the annals of history, I just don’t see Self setting the precedent.
KUSTEVE last edited by KUSTEVE
**********It was one loss. A bad way to start the season …yep, yep, yep. But to be forced to be demoted to coaching Dook for one loss …that’s simply cruel and unusual punishment. **********
HA! In customary fashion Jaybate has set the dogs to barking. I opened this thread with the image of Bill’s legs dangling into a boiling cauldron. Insanity ensues…