I tried so hard

nuleafjhawk

@DoubleDD Well, I’m ticked off too, but I think it’s way too early to say that a future Hall of Fame coach has got to go. I do think he should see a shrink and figure out why he’s so &^^%#(* stubborn and refuses to change his ways at times. Who was it that brought up the “insane” post a couple of days ago? I laughed that weird laugh, like “crap, I think they’re right - he is insane”. He has got to swallow his pride and learn how to utilize his players. I honestly don’t give a crap about winning #12 and losing to Delphos Tech in the first round this year.

Hawk8086

@DoubleDD you have a right to your opinion, but I think you are way over reacting. Look at the track record. I feel the pain on the early exits. But geez, can you at least wait until we have a bad regular season, or another early exit, or something, before you start with that.? Let’s let this season play out. If we had a better last ten minutes and beaten MSU would you feel the same way.?

Statmachine

I have to ask you WHO else could do a better job? Unless you are Coach K or Cal you are not going to come in to KU and do any better. I just think Coach Self needs to find new help or make some changes to improve a few areas like how he recruits 5 star guys and doesn’t play them from the get go? If you look MOST of the guys he is still after are 5 star guys and 1 or 2 4 stars. If you don’t start them chances are they will go to Duke or UK where they will see the court from day one. Then its obvious we need someone else to coach the bigs because the development of that area has been hit hard. other than that WHO ELSE is going to come in to KU and have more success?

wissoxfan83

While Cal has had better finishes than KU, the reality is Cal won one championship just like Self. Sure his teams have gone further, but they also lost in the NIT. And Kentucky fans can’t even remember the names of their rent a players or what year it was they played there. I wouldn’t trade places with them.

AsadZ

I agree with you. Both Self & KU BB will be better served with a Fresh start.

SoftballDad2011

@wissoxfan83

But…Calipari also has two vacated final four appearances!

And Kentucky has a few seasons (3, I think) in which they vacated wins.

But some of these “fans” think those are the yardsticks we should be using measure our success with!?!???

My bad Kentucky “only” has one season with vacated wins.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2015/DivI.pdf

JRyman

@DoubleDD John Wooden lost 4 games in his second to last year coaching at UCLA and 3 his final year. 7 losses in two years.

He had only lost 5 total loses the 7 years leading up to that.

Good thing he retired when he did. The game was just passing him by. I mean he didn’t even have an all American on that last squad. Jamal Wilkes was his last one the year before. Man his recruiting had bottomed out too.

Look as much as the game changes so do other programs. They see what the top dogs are doing and try to copy that. Schools hire better coaches, paying for them. In return they recruit better players. They change the environment to a winning one. So on and so on.

Schools gunned for UCLA, just like they are gunning at KU. Rick Barnes brought in talent to Texas but couldn’t beat Self and KU so they let him go to see if they could get better.

Bosthawk

Yesterday i watched the game again, replaying key plays and looking at them closely to see what players were doing away from the ball. I suggest everybody on this site do the same. Self is not to blame you Idgits !!! Yes, Lucas had some bad plays, and still not sure why hunter got amost no playing time. His short time in the game wasnt stellar for sure. The usual whipping boy on this site, Traylor, in fact had a solid game, boxing out, playing defense, and taking advantage of opportunities. Perry had some BAD defense and lack of boxing out near the end of the game as did frank trying to chase valentine and their other guard, and being too slow to get there. more that anything, BETTER DEFENSE near the end of the game would have made the difference. Self has always preached defense as the number one thing, correct?? MSU’s defense near the end of the game was REALLY good. Apparently Izzo understands that defense is king too. But The real reason we lost a close game against a quality team is that near the end of the game, valentine threw up a bunch of shots that went in. True, On his driving layup, perry was under the basket and closest to valentine, and could have altered his shot by at least putting his hand in the air, but stood there instead. And valentine’s floating mini- hook that rattled around the rim was also poorly defended either by lucas or perry. But some valentine shots were well defended, and he hit them. He had a monster game. Thats what good confident veteran players do sometimes. By the way MSU appeared to do a great job defending the three. As far as i could see, trying to get guys like greene and svi open for threes wouldnt have been a better game plan against MSU

Crimsonorblue22

@SoftballDad2011 and a first round exit in the nit!

DoubleDD

Ok so I’m over reacting a little. Yet when is enough? Enough? All it seems with HCBS teams is a lot of wishing and hoping. Can any of us really point to KU’s schedule and say yea were winning that game or this game ??? When was that last time any of us seen a HCBS coach team blow out a decent team? I mean really take it to them. Yea me neither. Somebody bashed Ol Roy on another topic but even HCRW coached team would curb stomp a good team once in a while.

When do we stop making excuses?

Suspending a player for 6 games because they want to play? Are you kidding me.

joeloveshawks

@DoubleDD this is a serious question. Not an argument. Who would you prefer coach KU that would actually take the job?

DoubleDD

@joeloveshawks

At this point I really don’t know, and truthfully I do like HCBS. I’m just getting frustrated with the way he is coaching and handling the team. I mean what HC suspends a players 6 games because they want more playing time?

As for your question. Take a shot in the dark here, but how about Danny Manning?

JhawkAlum

I feel like I am taking crazy pills or something! Self misplays his players for two years and we want him gone?!?! This is absolute madness!!

Just so I get this straight, the objective is making a final four and having a shot for a NC, correct? And we have stated over and over that we could care less about 30 wins or a Big 12 title, only the tournament. If you agree with me so far, then you are being an absolute hypocrite if you think Self needs to go after losing the SECOND game of the year!

I wonder what would happen if Self takes 3rd this year in the conference. What would you guys say then? End up as a 5th seed? You guys might have an aneurysm!

You say you don’t mind losing during the season if we can have more tourney success, and go ape s*** when we do and we don’t know the end result yet!

I know I’m not a crucial poster, and it won’t effect anyone here if I stop posting. But I will have to break a nice, long break from this site. I always came here to learn from people more knowledgable than myself. But this mob mentality and illogical posting that KU needs to move on from Self is infuriating.

But in the end, Rock Chalk.

DoubleDD

@JhawkAlum

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. I really don’t see the mob mentality yet. Well maybe me, but one person hardly makes a mob.

I’m not sure questioning BS makes me a hypocrite. Yea you’re right it’s just the second game of the year. Yet at this point do you see anything different from the way KU played last Year? Which by the way ended in a second round tourney loss.

So why would any sane person or fan believe hey were going to play like we did last year, but hey the outcome will be different this year.

Come on man?

DoubleDD

@JRyman

News flash nobody’s gunning for KU anymore. KU has been passed by, and left in the dust. Well except Big 12 schools. You think UK is worried about KU? I’m pretty sure Coach K and Duke isn’t worried about KU? I know Izzo and MSU aren’t worried about KU? There used to be a time teams were scared to play KU. Those days are gone my friend.

KU is getting it’s butt kicked on the court when it counts and in recruiting. KU is only great in the imaginary minds of it’s fans.

Crimsonorblue22

@DoubleDD did you hear unc lost today? I seriously hope you feel better soon!

JhawkAlum

@DoubleDD I know I said I am taking a break but you deserve a response so here you go. lol

“Everybody is entitled to their opinion”. Yes. You are correct. Even if it is lunacy.

“I really don’t see the mob mentality yet…” You, @AsadZ @jayballer54 and many others have said everything BUT “Self has to go”.

“I’m not sure questioning BS makes me a hypocrite.” You are correct. I question the way his choices of not playing Mickelson and Bragg as well. I have stated many times that Jamari should not play more than 10-15 minutes a game. The hypocrisy is when you posters state they don’t care about the season and Big 12 but are now calling for Self to move on because he lost in something you supposedly don’t care much about.

"So why would any sane person or fan believe hey were going to play like we did last year, but het the outcome will be different this year. **because it is impossible to tell how the team gels and what team leaders step up. Most of the 2008 NC year, their offense was terrible on the eyes. Beating way inferior teams by single digits and losing 2 out of 3 mid season. That season, we moaned “Bench Robinson and play Collins”. Believe it or not, Self is the same dude. The only difference is Davidson missed that final 3 to win the game. Fast forward a season a couple seasons, and we complained that Self lost his recruiting touch because he wasn’t signing high profile players. Then we complained that we are signing these high profile recruits that don’t care about the program. We are so stinking fickle!

My posts have been consistent throughout. Self has screwed up with his PT rotation IMHO. He has made a mule look like a submissive goat. Got it. But to call for a new coach 3 years removed from one of the best coaching jobs in history is overdramatic (even though I would rather use a more crude word to describe it).

DoubleDD

@JhawkAlum

I respect an understand the point you’re making on HCBS. Yet you have to understand as fans we all don’t think a like. It doesn’t mean one is a lunatic and one isn’t. You may find the fan (me) that thinks the game is passing BS by as crazy. Yet you don’t consider I might think your crazy for not seeing the cracks in his coaching ability.

Either way I will be rooting for KU and HCBS, as I’m a KU fan to the core of my being. Yet understand something @JhawkAlum I will voice my displeasure when the time arises. They are not meant to upset you personally. When it comes to KU basketball I would leave no door closed. All conversations should be had. No one coach or player should be bigger than KU basketball.

Besides that HCBS has said himself he has entertained the thought of coaching in the NBA. So tell me again why I should have blind loyalty to BS again? Just Saying.

DoubleDD

@Crimsonorblue22

I will be fine just need to adjust my expectations of this KU team. Thought for sure this team was destined for greatness.

Come on Jayhawks lets go win that conference Championship.

JhawkAlum

@DoubleDD I have not once thought that your intentions are to offend me and I would assume you’d think I was crazy if our opinions are opposites.

But I have to reintegrate, I do not think we should become “blind Self robots” like I said in my post posts. And again, I disagree with Self aspects (mainly his terrible love affair with Jamari and Lucas), but to call for his job is extreme. He is an amazing coach that has not done well with this current core group of players (Selden, Mason, Ellis, Lucas, and Jamari).

But is that grounds to fire him?

DoubleDD

@JhawkAlum

Well I don’t know? As I’m nothing more than an arm chair QB. I do know there is a line out there. That when crossed all bets are off.

These things usually happen as they are. I few start chirping then a few more start chirping. If things don’t take a turn for the better then a whole bunch jump on the wagon and then you have a mob that can’t be ignored.

Maybe I’m wrong for asking for his job. Yet it’s how I feel right now. I guess the reason I feel this way is a new season is supposed to bring new hopes and expectations. Yet after the MSU loss it felt like groundhog day. A repeat of last year.

KU expects it’s fans to not only invest their time but there money to watch and support the Kansas Jayhawks. Then they better expect some blow back when the fans aren’t happy.

I totally understand your point that letting go of HCBS might be premature. Yet as fans I think we’ve at least earned the right to talk about it.

RockkChalkk

Sure, HCBS is pretty stubborn with his ways and its clear he doesn’t take well to players voicing their opinions about it. Granted, we don’t have any indication on how it all went down. However, maybe he would be more receptive to new perspective on our offense if it came from an assistant coach. I don’t want a new head coach, i just want ours to adapt to the changing of the times, to better utilize the abilities of the players he has. HCBS does well in recruiting. He does great with the community and has managed to keep the program in pretty good standing. I think it would be very hard to find a better coach out there to replace him.

DoubleDD

@RockkChalkk

Great points, and great post.

JhawkAlum

@DoubleDD I think we agree on most points. But where we differ is when you say when you say certain lines are crossed, all bets are off. I just don’t believe two 2nd round losses means you fire a future HOF coach.

But in the end, we all desire for KU to be great.

Crimsonorblue22

@DoubleDD sarcastic? Hoping for conference champs! Good thing you don’t follow KU fb, I still watch them play!

DoubleDD

@Crimsonorblue22

I watch KU football too.

JayHawkFanToo

KU has been passed by, and left in the dust.

Really? The United States International University Sports Federation (US-IUSF) selected KU to represent the USA at the WUG just this past summer because it is the most consistently successful program in college basketball…

“We went through a pretty strong, long process to find the most appropriate team and Kansas was a great fit,” said Craig Jonas, the deputy head of the USA delegation in charge of selecting the representative, during a news conference Tuesday at KU. “When you walk the halls here, you realize what a great tradition Kansas has, and we’re ecstatic about having them there.”

Asked about the specific criteria that set KU apart, Jonas pointed to the Jayhawks’ five-year record — No. 1 in all of college basketball — plus preseason rankings, expected returners and last year’s RPI. A smaller, more speculative factor also played a role.

/sarcasm on

I guess someone should have told them that KU is now a has been…

/Sarcasm off