New thinking on the offensive side of the ball

  • Here is a response to a previous post by the great and verbose Jaybate 1.0:

    The whole of idea of expending more energy on D and less on O is good, however the high-low scheme of passing it around the perimeter to get to the third side for the open shot has flaws beyond the energy savings of the players. It means that the TEAM has to score and not the play makers: great thinking for D, great for learning the meaning of teamwork and locker room vibe and reducing the diva mindset, but not great for optimum O at crunch time.

    The ability to play as a team on O and pass well takes time and training and learning and intelligence and skill. In the OAD and TAD era, this is not always available year in and year out.

    With inferior or equal talent, yes it can compensate and beat better teams. But with equal or superior talent it is less effective than dribble-drive, penetrate and pitch, practicing making a play during the entire year so that at tourney time, the play makers are not over-passing. This is the weakness in the KU offensive scheme which depends entirely too much on system offense and the ability of the team to score rather than teaching the play-makers to play one-on-one, or a two man game (pick and roll and pick and pop).

    The result is that in crunch time our guys will run a play to score rather than go get a basket with pure talent and ability. Or they will panic at crunch time and force the action because they have not been playing that way all year long. We have seen this scenario play out multiple times at the end of the year, and over the years of the Self era.

    This is also in my opinion why we over perform during the regular season and under perform in the Big Dance.

    The offense needs to open up more and worry less about shot creation by running great stuff, and focus on getting MORE shots, more O rebounds, more athletic play outside of a set scheme. We now have better athletes and better players than the Tulsa teams of years past!

    My feeling is that Coach Self is learning this lesson at a slow and steady pace but we are not yet at our optimum level on O and the high-low “run my stuff to get a shot” is part of the problem. The best example was Wigs last year who was incapable of carrying the team at crunch time because he was a cog in a wheel and not the alpha dog who was trained to take over the game. Look what happened in his rookie season in the League.

    We need to play faster on O, take more threes, attack incessantly, be better dribblers and run LESS stuff, not more and better stuff. We all love KU BB. our coaches and tradition, but the idea of passing more on O is not the path to greater success on that side of the ball.

    Bad ball on D, but creative freer and more individual play on O. Game on for a GREAT season!


  • @jayhawk-007

    Self’s version of the Dean/Larry/Eddie-developed Multiple Offense really needs nothing but a credible post presence on both ends of the floor to go with what else Self has this season to make his Multiple Offense work BETTER than all the other girlie man offenses run by the remaining half of coaches that are not slavishly imitating Self already.

    That was the verbose version.

    Now the short form.

    If Diallo is someone defenses have to collapse on with the inside feed, all the great shooters and drivers Self has on the perimeter means Self won’t have to run any more perimeter action in D1 than he had to in Korea.


    Now the memorable epigram.

    Perimeter action is for suckers.


  • I’m not a fan of the dribble drive. It just encourages bad offensive habits. It encourages guys to go too much one-on-one. It also fails miserably when your adversary matches up well with you and their players have scouted out your drives.

    I tend to like something closer to a Princeton motion offense… turbo-charged with modern twists, proper spacing, and “no stick” passing. This offense gets a bad wrap in college because most teams aren’t skilled enough to run it well, and it will be an even tougher offense for most now that the shot clock has dropped to 30. But you can build in your “last second” outlets, so you should always get a reasonable shot… usually your last-second desperate shot is about equal to what you would have taken on a dribble drive.

    For whatever reason, we don’t teach our guys how to screen properly. We don’t teach them how to use shot fakes, screens, or sealing off the basket for rebounds. If we just had one assistant coach that put all his energy this year into teaching these three things, we would be a shoe in for a NC. Not even close.

    Pick and rolls and pick and pops should be twists put in whatever offense we run. It suddenly breaks the game into a 2-man attack, almost like a secondary break. Did you see teams like Brazil use it to crush America in the Pan Am games? It works in kid’s ball and it works in the NBA. It punishes defenders who can’t make a proper switch in time and gets out of position or a guy who can’t fight through a screen.

  • @drgnslayr

    The DDM is the turbo charged modern Princeton offense. The difference is that the Princeton set focuses on passing, while the DDM has charged that up by utilizing that spacing to open up driving lanes and forcing the help to come from awkward angles, opening up kick outs for open threes and dump offs to post guys for layups and dunks in the lane.

    The DDM focuses on allowing the great one on one players available today to make plays with the ball in their hands. You can zone it and clog it up the same way you can zone the Princeton offense and take away the back cuts and other openings off the high post.

    Still, the basic principles are the same. The difference is that you move the ball with the dribble in the DDM and with the pass in the Princeton.

  • @justanotherfan

    “The DDM is the turbo charged modern Princeton offense.”

    I don’t think so. Both use a “4 out” set, but Princeton isn’t premised off of a driver going one-on-one and taking it to the rim, or kicking it out because the defense sags in on his drive.


    Thanks for the vid. I’ve seen many of these sportskool vids with Walton.

  • @drgnslayr

    Princeton uses back cuts to get to the rim. DDM uses the dribble. The spacing principles are roughly the same in that the post man does not post up in a traditional spot, instead working the high post or the extended post to clear the lane for cutters and drivers.

    On the perimeter, the offenses both use a “fill” concept, where once a guy drives (or cuts) the other perimeter players fill in the empty spaces. If a cutter (or driver) does not get a layup, they cycle through and fill a weak side spot to repeat the process with a new player.

    The way the ball moves is different (dribble vs. pass), but the offensive principles are the same.

  • Good discussions…the key issue is that our own players are clogging the lane on O and limiting the ability to drive. We need more penetration and playmaking on that side of the ball, in general, and less having our bigs camp out in the lane at the low and high post.

    i like the comments on learning how to set a screen. The pick and roll (or pop) remains the simpliest and best O in basketball. Just get out of the way and create spacing.


  • @wrwlumpy

    I’ve missed these Sports Skool videos. Thanks. This one is great. Talk about taking the mystery out of the fundamentals.

  • @wrwlumpy

    I just watched the screen video. Some good points, but also a few bad tips. The screener never wants to put his arm up high even if he’s trying to protect himself. It’s too easy to make arm contact with the guard’s head (who is fighting through the screen) and get nailed for a flagrant foul. You have to avoid having your arm or hand make contact with another player’s head, even if that player is initiating most of the contact.

    There is a lot of information left out on this. The most important factor in setting a good screen (or defending one) is proper hedging (floor position). Surprised Big Red didn’t have it in there, he was pretty good at hedging in his playing days!

  • @drgnslayr

    Some of that is the responsibility of the ball handler. You have to approach the screen at the right speed. Too fast and your screener doesn’t get set. Too slow and the defense can react and align itself.

    But if you hit it just right, everything falls into place. The current master of this is Chris Paul. He paces himself just right into the screen, even when the defender knows its coming. He is going just fast enough to lead you into the screen, but also threatening to go the other way at the same time. It’s one of those beautiful details within a game that you can watch and see how the best in the world do it.

  • @justanotherfan

    Yeah… the guy with the rock can easily get a foul drawn on his screener because he didn’t have time to set before the defense is following the ball.

    We get a lot of fouls called on our bigs out top, often because they aren’t set quick enough. They also need to do a better job of not telegraphing the screen. When a defender sees the screen coming, he may be able to anticipate it and either get out top quicker or get a foul on the screener for not being set or moving his feet trying to stop him.

    I’m with you on Chris Paul. He is the master for many reasons, including how he likes to fake his path towards the screen and then drive the other way (when he sees the defender has over-anticipated the screen). He sure is fun to watch!

  • @drgnslayr

    …and when Chris Paul does not time the screen correctly…he flops…:)

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