MAN i need help

  • will someone give me a SOUND reason why Serbia more or less fouls intentionally with the score tied and like 12 seconds to go? the worst case they play straight up defense and we go into overtime. yes Wayne only makes one, BUT why would you foul with the score tied and you play D and its overtime? what am I missing? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

  • @jayballer54 who cares?

  • i do

  • The only explanation I can come up with: They wanted the ball back. They thought they could get a basket and tie (assuming he made both) or win (if he missed one or both).

  • Why wasn’t that foul considered at least intentional?

  • @Crimsonorblue22 Seems like he hit on a key strategic move by Serbia that didn’t work, but that some might consider reasonable. If you’ve read anything on the topic … which is doubtful.

  • Jesse Newell mentioned this on twitter – here’s a link to his page. And here’s a link to a discussion of the topic.

    And while @Crimsonorblue22 might not care (and is just rude enough to say that without explanation), those that actually want to discuss and consider basketball strategy might find it interesting. Thanks @jayballer54 for the post on the topic.

    As for me, the only way I would foul, in tie game, is if I have Shaq level free throw shooter to foul and I have lost key guys due to fouls or I have very strong feeling that my team is spent as compared to my opponent. Otherwise, play it out.

  • @jayballer54

    “BUT why would you foul…”

    Because they felt way too confident they could score when they got the ball back. They knew there was a good chance we wouldn’t hit both FTs… and they are (typically) very capable to hit their FTs. They probably thought since one of the refs was a cousin of their head coach, they’d get a foul call at the end to match some of the other horrible calls during the game. (joke, and not)

    Am I the only one that thought the officiating sucked? Gosh… we were getting hammered and no calls while they called all contact we had on them. Players like Wayne, Hunter and Perry got hammered without a call.

    One thing we need to understand about Int’l ball… they do their version of flopping. It isn’t as exaggerated as the flopping we see back home… but they add in a lot of whining to the refs. Both their players and coaches constantly whined to the refs in this game, even after they committed monster hacks… horrible officiating.

  • @bskeet

    While at the time it looked like a boneheaded call, strategically it was not that bad or unreasonable. They had the option of defending an letting KU use up clock and maybe hit 2 or 3 point shot with no time left or foul and make sure KUSA did not score any more than 2 points and then have the ball with some time left and a chance to tie or win the game in the last possession. It almost worked when Selden made only one free throw and all Serbia had to do is score one basket of any kind or get fouled and either tie or win the game. No question that the KUSA defense did a great job denying them a good look and only allowing desperation-type shots.

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    If they had seen many of our games last year, they would have realized that fouling was the wrong thing to do. They had no idea that we do pretty well at BAD BALL, so handing any kind of lead to us in the final moments was a big mistake.

    But hey… they had 3 shots in the final seconds, two were decent shot attempts.

  • They are Euros. They fouled because they have that much confidence in their shooters, and felt they had the advantage. Like Dragonslayer says, they don’t know what badball is.

  • @drgnslayr said:

    But hey… they had 3 shots in the final seconds, two were decent shot attempts.

    I think this says it all. They had confidence that they would get 2 or three chances and one of them would fall.

  • I’ll never understand why teams shoot 3’s when they only need 2. Bill would have said to drive it in the same situation.

  • @Barney

    They just wanted an open shot to take. They couldn’t count on getting it in the post, or at mid range. Actually, the safest bet was to attempt 3s. They get us spread out and an open shot. Plus the rebounds tend to be long and give them another chance. They did have 3 chances at it…

  • @drgnslayr It’s hard to know what a foul is. One minute they call a picky touch foul 25 ft from the basket, and the next someone is hammered big time under the basket and nothing.

    My favorite play is the push off by the ball handler followed immediately by a foul called on the defender for being the the same zip code. Nic and Frank seemed to get called for that a lot.

    One thing I have noticed is that if there is any chance that the other team will get an advantage in the open court someone will intentionally foul. You know it is intentional since they immediately raise their hand and no one complains about the call. This has happened numerous times in all of the games we have played.

  • @sfbahawk It should be 2 shots and the ball, but that is not how it is being called. It was obvious Serbia would take the foul every time to keep the USA from running and getting the tempo up.

  • hey thanks guys for all the various answers all sound pretty dam reasonable, sorry if it sounds dum for some to ask what I thought is a fairly reasonable question BUT I do appreciate your input, its good to know there are SOME guys that actually do have a BASKETBALL IQ OOOPS CRIMSON AND WHO. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

  • @sfbahawk

    I played Int’l ball. “No harm, no foul” is the general mantra. Players have to show just a bit of a flop drama in order to draw fouls. So… all those hard fouls we received around the goal… none are called if players don’t show the damage.

  • All the best bb minds on this board can cuss, discuss and analyze the foul until the cows come home, but unless you go ask the coach and player, it’'s all BS. So on that note I have to agree with @Crimsonorblue22, who cares? We won and that’s the important thing.

  • @brooksmd Whatever his reasoning it just didn’t give the impression of being very intelligent…unless his brother-in-law WAS the ref !!!

  • @globaljaybird

    I am not so sure about that. Without the foul, the best they can hope for is stealing the ball or having KUSA miss the last shot, and got to OT, in this scenario KUSA has the upper hand since it can run out the clock and either win outright or tie. With the foul they give themselves a chance of winning the game by hitting any shot if KUSA misses the FTs, tie it with a FG if KUSA makes both FTs or win it with a three…a lot better situation than not fouling. Just my take…

  • @JayHawkFanToo makes perfect sense if they have no confidence in their defense to get a stop…

  • @globaljaybird

    I am sure they had more confidence in their offense than in their defense. Like I said, even if the play good defense all they can hope is OT, with the foul they get a chance to win…

  • @drgnslayr I played rock N roll & a radio…

  • @drgnslayr Ok, but why then are half of the fouls that are called the kind that you would be embarrassed to call in a “call your own” pickup game? I know that a lot of games are called inconsistently but some of this is rather goofy.

  • One thing I just noticed is that the refs look very young, barely older than most of the players and younger than some. Maybe their inexperience is why the games are called so unevenly.

  • @sfbahawk

    They really don’t like players reaching in and slapping at the ball. We’ve had fouls called against us when our guys put a hand in directly on the ball and are called for the foul.

    I used to be very good at timing my pokes at dribbles. I could often get my hand in on a ball that was just coming up off the floor on a dribble. I wouldn’t even be poking at the player or touching him at all. I got whistled for so many fouls I had to stop doing that. My poking hand would never get within 6 inches from the player. Didn’t matter. I would get whistled for the foul. Int’l refs don’t like guys poking or slapping.

    I know part of the reason why. Because teams have 4 free fouls every quarter before sending someone to the line so they use those fouls intentionally… like to stop a fast break run out or a guy driving to the goal with nothing stopping him. Int’l refs have it in their heads that a poke or slap is only done to intentionally foul. The intentional fouls are always reach in fouls… slapping or poking or just reaching in and grabbing.

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