No Cliff

  • @wissoxfan83 he probably won’t play, but I’m pretty sure that it is still possible.

  • Crimson, the article says he won’t play according to Self.

  • What gauls me is from what we’ve been led to believe this could have been wrapped up one way or the other weeks ago. Someone doesn’t want him playing.

  • @wissoxfan83 I think they are wrong

  • @wissoxfan83 Is anyone surprised?? I really am not. My question is why? Why is it taking the NCAA so GD long to make a decision on this? Its nearing criminal proportions here. Its nearing conspiracy proportions here.

  • His mother won’t release certain financial papers to the NCAA.

  • @Lulufulu It’s not the NCAA that is holding things up - it’s Cliff’s family. I wouldn’t look for them to come forward any time soon.

  • Can Cliff go to court and get declared indendent from his family? Would NCAA be forced then to remove that from the equation? Of course, won’t happen before the tournament is over.

  • I think if she “spills the beans” KU could go down too.

  • @wrwlumpy @KUSTEVE Oh man, thats just crazy. Its hard to not judge Cliff’s parents or their motives in this situation. If they were on the up and up with everything, they would have not tried to hide said documentation. Ultimately this will hurt Cliff in the long run and the short term.

  • @Bwag He wouldn’t do that.He’s not looking to get reinstated, and certainly wouldn’t want additional scrutiny. He and his family are playing 4 corners until the NBA draft.

  • @KUSTEVE You are spot on as to what is - or isn’t - happening. Unfortunately for Cliff, this probably hurts his draft prospects, which had eroded before this. He clearly needs another year or two, which he isnt going to have. May end up in D league or overseas. Sad.

  • @wissoxfan83 said:

    This sucks for everyone.

    Well, except Lucas and Mickelson, of course!

  • It’s great to see Lucas and Mickelson get meaningful minutes. I believe Cliff would be coming on strong as well if he were playing.

  • @Crimsonorblue22 I doubt KU will be affected. But Self should just go ahead and cut all ties with Cliff and the family to let any bigs considering KU know there is an opening for immediate pt next year.

  • Once Cliff turned 18 he is no longer a minor and “legally” he is completely independent from his parents. However, the NCAA is not a government agency and has no power to subpoena the family or force them to cooperate; the only recourse they have is to work with the school to get them to have the family cooperate and the school will in every case suspend the player until the family cooperates. Short of that, there is nothing Cliff or the school can do. If the parents did this without Cliff’s knowledge, they really did him a huge disservice but it would be extremely difficult to have a player turn on his family and hard for the school to hold it against the player who might not be at fault. Biggest losers might end up being Cliff and KU through no fault of their own…of course, all of this is just speculation.

  • If I am an agent and/or family advisor for Cliff, do I want his Jayhawk play exposed in this Tournament?

  • @REHawk could his play be any worse? Self said he was really looking good these past weeks. Figures! I still think Cliff was going to come back.

  • @KansasComet That’s the silver lining. I LOVE MICK …a.k.a. the RED FURY. He makes something happen every time he hits the floor. He slammed down a rebound in our last game that reminded me of TROB pulling down a board. I hope he does so well in the tournament, he changes everyone’s perspective about losing you know who.

  • @REHawk

    I agree. When the story broke, my first thought and post was…what agent thinks that Cliff is ready for the NBA?

  • @JayHawkFanToo This sound very plausible to me. Thanks

  • @JayHawkFanToo jmo, but I think this happened before season started. There was still hope.

  • Sorry Cliff…I have no words my friend. You could’ve been a contender. We hardly knew ye.

  • @Crimsonorblue22 I hope you are right. But Self doesn’t sound optimistic at all or he’s grossly under promising and will over deliver. Why do I think something good is going to happen during this tourney over all this mess. I think KU deserves a big break after the regular season.

    What say you all?

    All in favor, say “I”…opposed “NO”…We need something. This has been an atypical season. We need a big boost.

    Why do I believe these guys will come out like gang busters? I think if they play with nothing to lose, they go very deep.

  • @truehawk93 I meant he was going to come back next year.

  • @Crimsonorblue22 IF, big IF they get this mess resolved.

  • @truehawk93 sorry, I think he decided to come back next year, before this mess. I don’t think he can now. I also wonder if him deciding to come back awhile back if that’s not what caused the problems w/loan or agent or whatever. Just guessing!

  • This has to go down as one of the weirder situations in recent memory.

    File it in the X-Files.

    Let Mulder and Sculley come out of retirement and solve it.

    It will probably wind up with Mulder on the roof of Allen Field House watching Cliff be drawn up in a tractor beam into a giant flying saucer that slowly rises and soars into the night sky.

  • @jaybate-1.0 X-files was one of the best shows on TV! I still have a crush on Scully to this day

  • @Lulufulu

    She was the best.

  • @KUSTEVE With this year’s team, just because you sit the bench, does not mean you can’t play. We have lots of talent and it is starting to come together.

  • Too bad for Cliff.

    It’s a tough situation. The NCAA wants the family to release a lot of very private financial records. If I were in that situation, I don’t know if I would want to release that info, especially knowing that the substance would be reported nationally because Cliff is a basketball player at a major university.

    Cliff’s KU career is probably done. I wish him the best at latching on in the D-League or overseas for a year or two, and hope he can catch on with the NBA after that.

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    I am not sure. The NCAA could apply the penalty to the games he sat and will sit out this season. Of course there is the matter or repaying the loan…

  • @justanotherfan

    Participation in a sport at a school under the jurisdiction of the NCAA is voluntary and when you do this you agree to follow certain rules and provide information when needed. By now, it seems pretty obvious that something happened that was against NCAA rules and this is why the family is unwilling to provide the information; as I understand it is phone records, something you can go on the Internet and get in a couple of minutes… Too bad that in the process they seriously harmed Cliff’s potential career and future.

  • @JayHawkFanToo so if, and I mean a big if, Cliff knew he needed to stay another year, there might be that possibility for him? Besides having to sit these games and repaying loan, maybe he could? In the long run, for Cliff, wouldn’t that be better? I’m sure he knows his future looks pretty bleak if he has to leave. I would think the ncaa would want that too.

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    If he can use the games he is sitting as the penalty, his best bet would be to come back for one more year. He is now slated as a marginal first round, and with many players getting extended looks (like Oubre) at the Tournament and moving up in the draft boards, I believe he might slip into the second round. He could have had breakout performance at the Tournament but now that is pretty much toast.

  • @JayHawkFanToo I just don’t understand that if he could get thru this season, we could still be penalized at some pt.

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    I don’t believe that KU would be penalized for something it did not do or did not know. TTBOMK, As soon as KU was notified by the NCAA of an investigation, it took the proper action and sat Cliff. Now, if KU knew about this issue earlier than we think it did and still played Cliff…then that is a different ball game, but I really do not think this is the case; schools are super careful in this area because they are aware of the potential consequences…it is just not worth it, unless you are Calipari, of course.

  • @JayHawkFanToo then why wouldn’t Cliff come back? I do ask a lot of questions!

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Money? even if he goes in the second round (like Mario) he would still make more money than most Americans do…not a lot of $200k-$400k jobs out there for someone with one year of college.

  • @JayHawkFanToo I think Cliff wants more than what he would get now, and that’s the humbling experience he’s going thru now. I don’t know the whole story, but I do feel sorry for them. I haven’t walked in their shoes, but know many who have. Sad!

  • @Crimsonorblue22 Is Cliff projected in the second round? I really dont know. If that is the case, its not guaranteed money. He has to be good enough to make the roster of whatever team

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    It sounds like you are of the opinion that Cliff and his family signed away their right to personal privacy so that Cliff can play basketball at KU. I disagree with that. I think they have a right to privacy and the NCAA doesn’t have an automatic right to your phone records, financials, etc.

    It’s unfortunate that college sports has turned into a situation where some feel that the privilege of college athletics means that you forfeit a right to personal privacy if the NCAA asks any questions. When you reach that point, I think there is more wrong with the rules than there is with the action.

    There is no allegation that Cliff or his family did anything illegal. Just that it was against NCAA rules. Whatever loan they did or didn’t get, at whatever terms, or whatever phone calls they made or didn’t make, isn’t really my business. I’m a sports fan. I don’t have a right to know what their financial situation is, or who they called, or anything like that.

  • @Lulufulu Gillian anderson is on pretty cool bbc series called " the fall" you need a fix 🙂 Its on netflix

  • @Bosthawk Cool! Thanks for the heads up. I’ll check it out. Love me some Gillian Anderson.

  • @justanotherfan

    You are absolutely right, as I have mentioned before, the NCAA does not have the “right” to any private information; however, if there are allegations that the NCAA rules were violated, the NCAA has a fiduciary obligation to its members to investigate so all school compete on a level field.

    Just because they did not do anything illegal does not mean they did not break NCAA rules. Let me give you an example, when I bought my current home it was part of a sub-division that has its own rules and regulations, supposedly in place to protect the home owners and membership is not optional, if you buy a property in the subdivision, you automatically are a member of the association and have to follow the by-laws…and pay the yearly fees. I did not have to buy a home here, but once I did I was bound by the regulations that include getting permission from the association’s architectural committee to do things like replace the roof or paint your house. I could replace the roof of my house for one that is not approved or paint my home a color that was not approved, and while neither of these actions are illegal or violate any city code or ordinance, they are indeed in direct violation of the subdivision’s by-laws that I voluntarily agreed to follow. In my subdivision, the association has the right to force you to correct the problem and if you don’t, they will do it for you and place a lien in your house. By the way my guest have to also follow sub-division regulations when in my home. . If you are not willing to abide by the subdivision regulations, you can always buy a home in a different location that does not have the restrictions. BTW, most every sub-division in my area has similar regulations

    The NCAA is an organization with voluntary membership and members/schools participating in NCAA sanctioned activities agree to follow the rules. It is really that simple; if you don’t want to be subject to the NCAA rules, you don’t have to do it, you can play JUCO, overseas or one of the many semi-pro leagues but you will not have the prestige of the NCAA in the same way I would not have the prestige of my sub-division if I buy a home somewhere else.

    Let’s not blame the NCAA for doing what they are required to do. The blame appears to lay on Cliff’s family that “allegedly” and knowingly broke NCAA rules and in the process placed Cliff’s future in jeopardy.

  • Im not interested in talking defense, and i dont have a hair of a notion why we hired someone thats been in the water for 10 years. The point is if we dont get Jimmy Chitwood back playing ball we dont have a prayer…:)

  • @JayHawkFanToo I have a good one for you. I live on a golf course in a community with fees for upkeep and rules like no garage sales-we approve house paint, etc,

    The golf course put a fence on the (easement) that runs along common areas on every hole at the tees And greens. They built it and it is on the easement where buried power cables lay… The fence is most likely on their side of the easement

    Right now they are painting and repairing said fences at the tees and greens, and they are sending notes to the home owners we are to paint the fences along our property as well. This is BS.

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