Cliff
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In fact, this nonsense has got to stop. I would like to see KU and Bill Self sign a kid and then invite the parents to a half day or all day event with various representatives.
I’d like to see Sean Zenger, our NCAA in house lawyers, Bill Self, and a few players (past or present) provide some education on what to expect and how to protect their son’s reputation. They need to educate these parents and families. There needs to be a more stringent academic review by KU to dig into the records, and have complete access to recruits’ transcripts. I also think these ‘elite’ athletes should have some kind of monitored test taking (ACT or SAT) to prevent any Derrick Rose issues.
This is an unnecessary evil, but necessary all the same with the snakes crawling in the grass.
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@truehawk93 maybe we do? Does anyone know? I’m guessing there is a program in place.
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@Crimsonorblue22 We do have a quasi-clearing house. It’s the same group that caught BMac and Traylor’s little academic issues. They reported it to the NCAA and I believe KU already imposed missing some games. The NCAA then pushed further for them to “practice, but not play for the year.”
The academic thing may not be much of an issue as the family thing. It’s funny how BMac survived his academic issue and then turned around later in the year with that birthday bowling party by that stupid agent, who paid for it all. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he sign BMac? He was then later fired by BMac if I’m not mistaken.
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@KUSTEVE I don’t know Steve, but it seems when I give an alternative opinion you can’t seem to deal with it. You did the same thing a few weeks ago when I said who cares what Gottlieb says. I’m just a crazy fanatic fan just like you. Have an open mind for other views.
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@wissoxfan83 I think your response with Gottlieb summarizes it best - you openly defend the announcer who has ran down KU more than any other announcer ever… BUT, the second Gottlieb says an unkind word about Kaminsky or Wisconsin, you completely trash him. I guess I keep mistaking you for a Big Ten troll, as your comments don’t always add up. I mean, you develop this attitude towards Cliff because he had the gall to insult a Big Ten team in some silly hat ceremony which you parade out as “evidence” of character issues. The same exact response I got from my IU and MSU trolls from another board. And like your selective amnesia with Gottlieb, I wonder if Cliff had picked up a Kentucky hat instead of Illinois, if you would’ve even noticed it. Now, I appreciate your posts about our bad shooting, and it is always really important to get our Badger updates…but beyond that, I will not direct anymore comments to you. Hope your Badgers do well.
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I think you mistake my point on Gottlieb. I don’t really care what he or any other announcers say. Sure I listen, but I don’t care. I should’ve used my sarcasm font when I said I hate him after the kaminsky comment I guess.
I apologize for the Badger updates and appearing to be a Big 10 troll. I grew up in Big 10 country, in Chicago, really didn’t know Kansas had a tradition laden team until I enrolled there, then moved to Wisconsin where I lived a long time. I love Kansas, KU, Jayhawks, etc. I don’t spend hours a day on Badgerbucketts.com or anything like that. I do cheer for the Big 10, and to be honest, would have been happy if Cliff had enrolled at the U of I instead of us, although I was glad he came here.
I will always be a Jayhawk fan first, but I will also speak my mind when I want to as well, as is my right! RCJHKU
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Kansas forward Cliff Alexander remains sidelined because of an NCAA inquiry into possible impermissible benefits received by one or more of his family members from an NBA agent, multiple sources have told Yahoo Sports.
Alexander has not yet been interviewed by the NCAA, sources said, though not because of a reluctance by either the school or NCAA investigators. Sources said legal counsel has been retained by the Alexander family and that may be slowing the investigative process.
. Cliff Alexander has missed the Jayhawks’ past two games. (USA Today) Alexander will not be reinstated until after an NCAA interview occurs and a decision is made on whether benefits received by his family are impermissible. If it is ruled that a violation occurred, Alexander’s eligibility for the remainder of the season could be affected. Mike Oliver, who coached the five-star recruit in Chicago at Curie High School, told Yahoo Sports Thursday that he visited Alexander Feb. 21 when the Jayhawks played TCU and was concerned.
“I knew something wasn’t right,” Oliver said. “He just wasn’t Cliff.”
A week later, Alexander was sidelined with what the school termed an “NCAA issue.” Kansas has not commented on the nature of the issue, but sources confirmed to Yahoo Sports that it is agent-related.
Alexander has missed the No. 9 Jayhawks’ past two games, victories over Texas and West Virginia. That hasn’t prevented Kansas (24-6, 13-4) from winning yet another Big 12 championship. But Saturday Kansas goes to Oklahoma and is expected to be without Alexander, fellow forward Perry Ellis (sprained knee) and possibly guard Wayne Selden (ankle).
Before he was sidelined by the NCAA issue, Alexander’s playing time had plummeted in recent weeks. He played fewer than 20 minutes in seven of his last nine games, bottoming out a total of 27 minutes played in three games against West Virginia, TCU and Kansas State Feb. 16-23. Alexander scored just 28 points in the month of February.
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@wissoxfan83 Apology not needed as most of us board rats understand. Shoot, I even watched a part of Wisc-Minn tonite. They are impressive and I also thiink they could take out Kensucky.
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@brooksmd this Cliff thing is not sounding good!!!
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In this game of NBA business, the biggest loser is the Universities. What I can’t understand is why NCAA is not doing anything to prevent the universities from getting hurt since it is NCAA and not a NBA subsidiary.
Anybody could see that: Kids from limited resources families + Great Basketball Potential + Scheming Agents = Troubles for Universities. There is hardly any fight or defense that the universities can put up.
Therefore, for the sake of College Basketball, just let those who think they can cut it at the NBA go directly from high schools.
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I have trouble thinking of an agent that thinks Cliff is ready for the NBA…
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I’m afraid you maybe right. I was so hoping it was just an education thing. Those things can usually be worked out, but receiving benefits from agents and the like can be a death sentence for a college career. Hope the NCAA doesn’t try to drag KU into this.
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@JayHawkFanToo They have nothing to lose, cast the net wide and hope there is a big catch inside. They don’t care. Afterall, those “impermissible” stuff is really small feats for them. And, they may have shoe companies money.
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I seriously doubt shoe companies would get involved in something shady, Zero upside and too much risk of bad publicity that could cost them contracts with top programs.
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@JayHawkFanToo You are right. Anyway, I think we should move on. We moved on without Embiid. We can move on without Cliff. I just feel sorry for the young man.
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@JayHawkFanToo maybe it was before we figured he needed more time? His parents could have returned stuff, or money, backed out knowing he wasn’t ready. Then agent could have turned them in? Just guessing!
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@Shanghai_RCJH we didn’t move very far w/out Embiid!
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Hard to tell. The good thing, if you can call it that, is that it appears that it does not involve the program and Coach Self acted immediately upon hearing from the NCAA.
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@JayHawkFanToo can’t anything be done about the sleaze ball agents? No rules they have to live by?
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@Crimsonorblue22 This is what troubles me. NCAA is not protecting its member schools. NCAA only punishes its member schools for something that they have no weapon against. It is ridiculous!
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@Crimsonorblue22 And, if I may add, why does NCAA feels like a Proxy to NBA (they are less when it comes to Football and Baseball).
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Sources: NCAA investigating whether family of Kansas’ Cliff Alexander received impermissible benefits By Pat Forde 3 hours ago Yahoo Sports
In fact, this nonsense has got to stop. I would like to see KU and Bill Self sign a kid and then invite the parents to a half day or all day event with various representatives.
I’d like to see Sean Zenger, our NCAA in house lawyers, Bill Self, and a few players (past or present) provide some education on what to expect and how to protect their son’s reputation. They need to educate these parents and families.
I’ll say again, again, and again…When will these recruits, players, and families understand this is not about them. They are jeopardizing way too much. STOP, damn it and leave it alone and tell the agents to talk to your coach. I do think when the player signs a scholarship, it’s a bit like a contract. When these agents are caught soliciting these young players, they need to be prosecuted for actually violating the university’s scholarship agreement with the player and his parents/guardian/s.
These agents have the top programs on their radars and they are chasing these players. It’s pure and simple marketing at it’s lowest. They might as well be used car salesmen.
Lastly, you can’t tell me Cliff Alexander or a family member is the only D1 top recruit that has allegedly taken ‘impermissible benefits’ from an agent. I guarantee you dook, unc, uk, zona, and likely many others have at least one player that is doing the same thing. Why is it that Cliff gets caught or is found violating this rule? It’s insane.
Once a high school senior is deemed eligible to receive an athletic scholarship for their participation on a sports team, they must then follow a number of explicit steps in order to participate at the collegiate level. In particular, the NCAA mandates that they sign a National College Letter of Intent (NLI), which is effectively an agreement that binds the student-athlete to institution in which they have chosen to enroll.[1]
This is worth a review and notice what Auburn said toward the end of the article. Newton played and never sat out.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5765214
http://sportslaw.uslegal.com/sports-agents-and-contracts/ncaa-sports-contracts-and-amateurism/
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Two issues I have with the Cliff situation and some of this goes back to how much of a Joke the NCAA truly is.
You have no governing of Agents, you know they exist and have an influence especially this time of year. Why are Agents allowed to roam free without punishment. They know what they are doing, its not like its public knowledge when they “sneak” around to gain access to pay days. Your never going to hear a Agent tweet " meeting with Cliff Alexander about gaining his services for the NBA". No, it’s an allegation after the fact of whatever has happened and now becomes Cliff’s fault. How the heck ( I will refrain from using profanity) does that become the players fault if he has no knowledge of the fact. That part is not known yet and will probably play a part in any punishment he receives.
The other issue I have is Cliff’s family. Seriously you couldn’t wait a month if in fact they did take some benefit. You weren’t born yesterday, you know that if you take something from an Agent while he’s still playing College ball that this is going to become an issue. How dumb can you be. I’m totally shocked that they could be this uneducated into this. Again I’m just speculating that they took something, and if it comes back that they didn’t then this becomes an even bigger joke on the NCAA’s long list of failed governance. It’s truly sad that the Athlete will suffer in a present so that you can gain something in the future.
Rant over, but this brings up valid points that don’t get addressed often…
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I guess the speculations made earlier this week were correct. Maybe Cliff can claim ignorance to his families indiscretion like Cam. What worries me is the article that talks about his HS coach noticing something was off a week prior after TCU game. Makes me nervous that Cliff knew about it at that point but didn’t report it since he still played in KsU game? Hopefully something else was up during TCU game, girl problems, homework, poor play…
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I’ve given this Pat Forde write-up fifteen minutes of serious thought, and here is what I deduce: Quite possibly an agent slipped up to the back door wearing an Illinois cap.
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Still seems like a lot of speculation from multiple yet unnamed Yahoo sources.
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I think we are all on the same page here. Some of these agents are sleaze-balls of the worst kind. I would think the NBA & NFL commissioners could put in a death penalty clause-that any agent caught talking/giving goodies to an athlete or his family while they are playing for a school will no longer be able to represent ANY athlete with the NBA or NFL.
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Pat Forde is a huge MU homer and hates KU. When a survey was made a couple of years ago among analysts about the best college basketball venue, AFH was in the top 2-3 in every ballot except one and finished (as expected) as the #1 venue. Pat Forde did not have AFH even in his top 10…if you can believe that…this is not just ignorance, it is unfiltered hatred for KU, totally unprofessional behavior, and probably one of the reason he is no longer with ESPN. I would take any thing he writes about KU with a boulder of salt.
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The biggest loser here is always the player and their family.
Whose reputation and character get questioned?
Who has to produce proof of how they have afforded basically anything of value that they own?
Whose intelligence and financial situation are questioned and examined?
The university doesn’t go through that. The coach doesn’t go through that. That’s purely on the player and their family.
I am getting really tired of the NCAA doing this. I have seen what it does to people. It’s extremely embarrassing.
Think about this for a moment. Imagine that you had a son or daughter that was an elite level recruit. They get a scholarship to go to a D1 school, then the NCAA opens an investigation about “improper benefits.” Remember, improper benefits could be something as small as a couple hundred bucks. So they ask your child where they got the money for their PS4 or XBox. They ask your son how they paid for prom as a senior. They ask you how you afford your mortgage, or how you afford your car. They look into your tax records. They look at credit card statements, etc. It’s like getting audited, but even worse. All so your child can accept an athletic scholarship. The media leaks information about you and your family - things like “NCAA questioning how top athlete’s family acquired vehicle” or “HS transcript of top recruit being examined.”
All of that results in people questioning the character of the athlete - they get labeled a cheater - or their parents - looking for a handout, etc.
It really frustrates me.
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His hs coach noticed a change in Cliff during a visit in Feb. Maybe, and I’m going to be on Cliff’s side on this, but maybe Cliff found out somebody in the family had gotten involved with an agent and that was what was bothering him. Cliff then informed either HCBS or the NCAA. I know HCBS has said he doesn’t know what it’s all about, but that could be just complying with the NCAA asking for some time while they look into it. Like I said, that’s just my opinion and I’m standing by Cliff on this.
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The delay apparently is caused by the fact that Cliff’s Lawyer has not let him answer questions from the NCAA.
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/03/06/ncaa-investigation-kansas-cliff-alexander
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@wrwlumpy Just SI doing a re-write of the Yahoo story to fill some space.
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The NCAA cannot legally compel anyone to cooperate in an investigation or even answer simple questions; cooperation is 100% voluntary. However, the NCAA can withhold clearing the player and effectively preventing him from playing. It looks like Cliff’s family is not cooperating and hence the NCAA will not clear him to play, so his career at KU might be effectively over. I have a bad feeling about the attorney in question. IMHO, he is saying all the wrong things, maybe its is the legally correct way to proceed, but to the lay observer it sure looks like he is hiding something.
Here is a video of Arthur McAfee, the attorney; I am not sure I have ever seen a video of an attorney introducing himself in YouTube, via interview outdoors. Every interview with an attorney I have seen before has always been in an nice office or conference room setting.
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@JayHawkFanToo Maybe his office is being renovated and all he could find is a lawn chair outside. Don’t want to offend anyone on here who may be of the law profession, but imho the only things lower than a lawyer are the bottom feeders in the ocean and since we haven’t been into the deepest trenches of the oceans that may be open to debate.
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@brooksmd good one! Soooo, if Cliff is not talking, why are we even bothering w/him?
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Excellent point, except it is probably not Cliff not doing the talking but a family member, but the end result is the same.
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@Crimsonorblue22 We don’t know, do we. All we can do is opine.
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@wissoxfan83 What? Hold on, you’re a badger fan? You heretic!
Maybe we need to sign a loyalty oath or something around here.
Just kidding! I grew up in Illinois too and didn’t know or care that there were other conferences besides the Big 10 until I went to college in Big 8 eight territory. And, as a recovering Cubs fan, I can forgive your apparent poor choice in white sox fan-ness, @wissoxfan83, but please, please, please tell me you’re not a packer fan.
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@JayhawkRock78 said:
I think we are all on the same page here. Some of these agents are sleaze-balls of the worst kind. I would think the NBA & NFL commissioners could put in a death penalty clause-that any agent caught talking/giving goodies to an athlete or his family while they are playing for a school will no longer be able to represent ANY athlete with the NBA or NFL.
Punishing the agents/money men is exactly how the NCAA stops this. The big problem with that though is they (NCAA) need the NBA and NFL to back them on this and enforce the rule. Unfortunately neither seem too worried about it because it doesn’t really affect them.
By banning any agent, agency, PR group, whoever, or whatever loop hole company that these sleaze balls work for from doing business with the professional leagues, it would deter a lot of this from happening. Maybe the families aren’t sure what’s right and wrong but you can damn well bet those that are forking over the cash know exactly what they’re doing!
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@JayHawkFanToo didn’t the article say Cliff wasn’t talking?
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I can forgive you for being a Cub fan too, although I have usually held them and the Packers in the same rung of sports hell with Missouri.
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Just maybe, crazy thought, Cliff turned his dad or mom info in to self?? Maybe that’s what was weighing on him(his hs coach)
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Guess I can repost what I had above… except change the gender…
"Says??? The family attorney?
I am skeptical about sources like that. They don’t have access to any privy info from the NCAA. From sources you can trust (like KU) they would never leak out news ahead of the NCAA.
Hate to be Negative Ned on this one… but I’m not getting my hopes up, especially on a timely resolution. Seems “timely” would be more like the middle of March."
The rumor leak was from McAfee… he is doing what all civil litigators do… establish damages.
Cliff will not be playing tomorrow. Unlikely he will be cleared for March. Possible, but unlikely.
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Its always tough to talk about your “other” sports teams, and we should respect our fellow Hawk’s views here. You never know where someone grew up, or if someone’s parent is an alum from some other school. And as much as I have blasted on ‘hostile’ ksu fans (as seen on tv) from afar, I try to apologize to any house-divided ku households.
I DO hope Wisc can beat KY, but then for sinister reasons, maybe I want to see KY run the table, because they’ll never top that. And even better, maybe the ncaa looks into KY hard, and starts to make moves restoring ‘competetive balance’? Maybe thats a pipe dream.
One thing, if we had a 2AD rule, and Embiid was still here, Cliff would be at Illini, and KU would be a 1-seed, battling with KY and Duke/Okafor.
I also dont like the idea of blatantly paying college players…it all in how that’s executed: come up with some type of additional “scholarship” or player grant, then maybe it sounds more palatable…& it gets better if they use some TV pkg money to make such a grant equal for all Div1 programs (probably wont happen).
Maybe most logical is some sort of formula to awarding an athletic-ranking scholarship, based on how good a ranking a h.s. blue chip recruit is. Kind of analagous to if you blow away your ACT or SAT, you can get a full ride academic scholly…so why not if you’ve outcompeted & outexcelled your fellow highschoolers in your sport?
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@DanR Don’t worry about @wissoxfan83 . As a life long (almost 60 years) Cub fan myself, you’ve got a friend.
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@brooksmd @wissoxfan83 Well, nothing brings cubs and white sox fans together better than mutual hatred for those stinkin’ cheeseheads! Kumbaya, my friends. RCJH / Go Bears!
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@ralster I hope uK gets caught at something. I just think they cleaned their laundry the minute a former NCAA investigative member took a position with uK’s AD.
If you read the announcement “…the hiring doesn’t signal any brewing compliance trouble for the Cats…” I’ll give them credit, this was a brilliant move by uK. She can clean their dirty laundry at uK and with the NCAA investigative committee. They won’t get caught at all folks. This is so obvious it’s sick, but brilliant for uK.
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@truehawk93 Wow! 100 mil plus for athletic dept budget for one year & 22mil alone for the 2014 BB budget ?!! That sure covered Cals $3200 a night junket to Paradise Island OK. Small cities have much smaller budgets than UK BB. That is just outrageous. How many compliance czars do they need? Maybe one each for Cal & Strickland? WWW may have a tail 365 1/2 days a year !!
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Just a guess here, but with each passing day I become more resigned to belief that Cliff has played his last game as a Jayhawk.
If proven that impermissible benefits were received by a family member and that Cliff was aware of it, his college career is done.
With Cliff’s attorney purportedly preventing the proceedings from moving forward by not allowing the NCAA to sit down with Cliff, he is effectively arriving at the same outcome without an admission of guilt on Cliff’s part.
Thus - just as the attorney indicated in his first press release - minimizing any fallout.
If the claims were frivolous, and given that time is of the essence at this late juncture of the season, the attorney should have been expediting the matter so that Cliff could have an opportunity to either improve his draft stock by playing and/or keeping the door open for him to return next season if his performance wasn’t indicative of a first round draft choice.
Regardless of the outcome, I hope the Jayhawk faithful keep their arm around Cliff. Once a Jayhawk, always a Jayhawk. FOE. Just unfortunate that a family member has presumably put Cliff in this situation.
Keep your head up, Big Fella.
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Public filing ties Cliff Alexander parent to financial firm By Pat Forde and Adrian Wojnarowski 34 minutes ago Yahoo Sports A Uniform Commercial Code filed in August 2014 ties the mother of suspended Kansas basketball player Cliff Alexander to a finance company that, according to its website, specializes in loans to professional athletes and agents, Yahoo Sports has learned.
On Aug. 25, 2014, a UCC filing was made in the state of Illinois under the name of Latillia Alexander of Chicago, Cliff Alexander’s mother. The filing is publicly accessible on the Illinois Secretary of State website. The securing party is listed as Ludus Capital of Delray Beach, Fla.
. Cliff Alexander (2) attempts a shot against Oklahoma State. (USAT) Among the types of financing extended by Ludus Capital, which has offices in Florida and New York: draft loans to potential high draft picks in the NBA and NFL. However, the loans are extended to athletes after they have declared for the draft. In August, Alexander was just starting his freshman year at Kansas.
Loans based on future earning potential can violate NCAA rules for student-athletes.
Registered NBA agents often work in concert with financial firms to secure money for families. These firms also recruit prospects independently.
Alexander missed his third straight game Saturday for what Kansas has called an “NCAA issue.” Multiple sources told Yahoo Sports on Thursday that the issue is a family member who may have received an impermissible benefit.
Alexander’s family took meetings with NBA agents during August, sources said. Discussions with agents for the purpose of gaining information on a player’s market value do not violate NCAA rules, but entering into a written or verbal agreement and receiving compensation is a violation.
Alexander has not yet been interviewed by the NCAA, sources said, though not because of a reluctance by either the school or NCAA investigators. Sources said legal counsel has been retained by the Alexander family and that may be slowing the investigative process.
Alexander will not be reinstated until after an NCAA interview occurs and a decision is made on whether benefits received by his family are impermissible. If it is ruled that a violation occurred, Alexander’s eligibility for the remainder of the season could be affected.
Before he was sidelined by the NCAA issue, Alexander’s playing time had plummeted in recent weeks. He played fewer than 20 minutes in seven of his last nine games, bottoming out a total of 27 minutes played in three games against West Virginia, TCU and Kansas State from Feb. 16-23. Alexander scored just 28 points in the month of February.
