Little Help !
nuleafjhawk last edited by
Ok, I’m probably not THE most stupid person on the face of the earth (it’s up for debate), but I could really use some help with this.
Since Brannen Greene shoots 788.99% from the field and eleven hundred and 52 million % from the free throw line - WHY WHY WHY is he only playing 13 minutes per game? Could’t he score 172 pts per game if Self played him 30 minutes or so per game?
I’m all ears.
While he is improving, he still gets beat on defense. Doesn’t fly with Self. Selden, for instance, may have unproductive games on offense, but he usually plays tough, hard nosed perimeter defense. Oubre has more all around game. The team seems to play well with Graham and Mason in the game at the same time. That all adds up to Greene not playing even half a game. I hear you though.
wissoxfan83 last edited by
@nuleafjhawk You are dumb, you can only shoot a million percent from the foul line. Sheesh.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
Brannen’s defense has improved by leaps and bound (see rebound and block at the end of game at TCU) but it is still not at the level of the other players and can’t really create his own shot and relies on someone else setting him up. He is still a one dimensional player albeit a great one dimensional player with one sweeeeet stroke.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@JayHawkFanToo could you see him get hit in the nose? On the shot?
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
Did not see him getting hit only the blood afterwards…
joeloveshawks last edited by
@nuleafjhawk Greene’s minutes are on the rise. He is really turning it on offensively and we are going to lean on him in games where we need to create offense. He is a zone buster and a clutch free throw shooter. His D is still a bit weak. Selden showed today what he can bring on D when he is dialed in. Mason and Graham can also do things on D that Greene can’t.
I did like hearing Fran say today that NBA guys like Greene. I agree and I could actually see Greene being a big part of an NBA team that needs a pure shooter. Could be a Danny Green type (not only similar players in name).
I feel you, but man who do you sit? Thinking outside the box here I’m afraid if BG starts it would hurt his game, as he really a spot shooter (a deadly one). Teams would game plan against him. Coming off the bench it’s hard to game plan against him. Also remember HCBS loves defense and BG though making big strides still gets beat and doesn’t recover quickly enough.
Brannen Greene does need to play, and he needs to play more minutes. The reason is simple … Brannen Greene makes Kansas better. He makes us a better overall team. His defense is not at the level of Oubre or Selden. We know that. But Greene is closing the gap.Self has trusted Greene in late game situations, so his defense is clearly reaching satisfactory range. @DoubleDD – just really a matter of prioritizing Greene’s minutes.
Greene, however, is significantly better at shooting than anyone on the team. By significant ways. He is the best pure scorer on the team. Is his attack diverse? No. It’s shooting. But shooting is the most important currency in the game.
Look at what Self said after the game today - this is a quote from Matt Tait, summarizing Self: “I thought Brannen kind of bailed us out. The dude took 5 shots outside of 17 feet and made 4 of them.”
Benton Smith reported that Self said today that Greene “jumps up and shoots it better than anyone we’ve had.” Again, a summary quote.
The point is, if we have a shooter as good or better than anyone he’s had here, PLAY THE MAN! There is no reason to think that Greene’s productivity would decrease with more minutes.
This, again, is about reaching our offensive potential. Not about just winning against KSU.
Notice how Greene somehow shot 4 three pointers today? Imagine that. Before the game, it didn’t look good – Jesse Newell noted the following as one of KSU’s three strengths:
3-point defense: Bruce Weber is one of the rare coaches who seems to have a style that forces opponents to miss 3s. The Wildcats ranked sixth nationally in 3-point percentage against last season, and though they struggled early on this year, they rank second in Big 12 play with opponents making only 30 percent of their 3s. K-State is decent at 3-point prevention as well, ranking 96th in percentage of 3s shot against.
Somehow, someway, against a team with a good three point defense, we were able to take 17 three point attempts, and were able to take more than one three point attempt in the second half, going 4/7.
Greene was a big part of that.
The deal here is prioritizing this undeniably valuable skill. 13 minutes is just not enough. Zero three point attempts against TCU was a complete waste offensive firepower. More importantly, not scheming to take advantage of our best offensive weapon is just plain negligent. Getting shots in the scheme of the offense is nice, but it is not enough.
Our number one priority on offense, above and beyond everything else, should be finding open looks for Brannen Greene from three point range. This is our best, most reliable, most efficient, and most effective way to score the basketball. This is undeniable.
If you’re not convinced, I asked this another way earlier this week: With you life on the line, what shot would you prefer? Greene from three, or any big man with the ball, back to the basket? Or another option?
If your not convinced, sell me on the other, better option with this team. I’m all ears.
Brannen Greene is not just a good shooter. Greene is a three point shooter who is displaying skills of epic proportions – of JJ Reddick proportions.
When you have an offensive weapon that is comparable only to Simien and TRob in the Self era, finding minutes isn’t the issue, and it shouldn’t be the issue.
Oh no my friend I totally understand the argument. Also lets not forget before the season started I was on record as saying BGreene was going to be a stud. (When some weren’t so sure)
However lets raise a couple of points here. Any other team except maybe UK (and that’s a maybe) BGreene has to start. Yet here in KU land I’m not so sure. Now I know we’re talking about just increasing his minutes not starting, but how do we increase is minutes unless we send somebody to the bench?
I have no qualms saying if BGreene is open the shot is going in (as I’m already celebrating when the ball leaves his hand). He is a great shooter maybe the best but that’s all he is. He doesn’t create and lacks on the defense side of the ball. However I have to admit he’s getting better. (A lot better) Yet that raises the question who do we send to the bench?
I wouldn’t argue BGreene needs more minutes or even needs to start, but the question who goes to the bench? Also BGreene is a catch on the fly kind of shooter. Opposing coaches can X and O against that all day. Until BGreene can create his own shot (as his defense is acceptable) he needs to be the first man off the bench.
Just for conversation sake who would you sit?
@DoubleDD Looking at today’s game as an example, just take 8 minutes away from Selden, and give those to Greene. Both would be at 22. Or put Greene at 25 and Selden 19. I liked Mason, Graham and Oubre’s minutes distribution. I know it’s hard to script minutes, that’s an example. Selden doesn’t deserve to be the second highest perimeter minutes guy right now, I don’t think. As @icthawkfan316 suggested, Graham is another better option. I really like the idea of Selden off the bench, too.
One of my best arguments against starting Greene is the less is more argument. There are some guys whose production might decrease per minute, with more minutes. A good example is the change of pace running back in football … like Darren Sproles used to be. Give him 25 carries a game, and you’d see a big production drop. Give him 10, and you might maximize his productivity. But I dont’ see any reason to believe that would be the case with Greene.
I think there are really good arguments against starting Greene. He is one dimensional – just a darn good dimension. I just prefer him to Selden at this point. Self playing Greene over Selden in crunch time told me a lot, and sold me on the idea that Greene should have an expanded role. If Selden is playing well offensively, then I’d view it differently. He played fine today, but was 5-13 from the field. I’d at least like to see Selden off the bench and see how he reacts. It could be magic.
DoubleDD Banned last edited by DoubleDD
It’s a solid case you make. However lets not forget Selden had four blocks? With my hands in the air I say I don’t have an answer.
I guess all I can say is we KU fans are blessed that we have so much talent. B|
I guess the real question is could BGreene carry the ice cold touch if he was starting? You know as well as I do. Starting and coming of the bench are two different things…
@DoubleDD With a shooter like Greene, if he goes 0-3 to start, put him on the bench. Let him reset, then put him back in later. Just react to his shooting. Hot, stay in. Cold, pull and let reset, and try later. We are so blessed with bad a** perimeter talent, there are very few bad choices. We’re winning, as well. So that’s another argument against change. Guys are adapting to their roles.
You know it brother, I’m with you.
I’m glad you and I are the same… we never ever exaggerate!
I’ve recently posted what I believe is the difference between college coaches and NBA coaches. College coaches are partially about winning, and partially about teaching their philosophy. I know that sounds wrong… I know we are all thinking college coaches are ALL about winning, but you will see a difference if you compare them to NBA coaches.
Self’s philosophy is built around defense. So much so that he’d rather limit the minutes of his best offensive player just to gain a tiny bit of defensive improvement with another player. Self really is about the grind games. It is what he strives for. He is fundamentally a very different coach than his predecessor, Roy Williams. Self never wants a game to be a points race… never!
I’m not sure we would have won today without Brannen. It seemed like every time KSU mounted a comeback, Brannen was there to reverse the momentum with a single shot. He did that a few times, and who knows what would have happened if our mini-droughts would have extended longer. Frank did not have his typical game, and only got going late.
This team relies on momentum. It feeds on momentum. And when fueled with momentum, this team plays with energy, and when this team has energy they are almost unbeatable!
But as we know… a basketball game resembles a dramatic play. Circumstances are constantly changing and the narrative shifts to new paths, not all of them positive for our Jayhawks. Brannen has been one of those guys that can turn the direction of our team back on course. Just how valuable is he? It really goes far far beyond the points he puts up.
Brannen is a game changer! And all we have to do to let him shoot us onto the right path is give him minutes and work enough motion on offense to free him up for his shot! That isn’t a lot to ask from this team… and if we do it, more times than not, Brannen is going to find success! We have to go back a few decades to find a Jayhawk with his sharpshooting talent!
Here is a big shout out to Wayne Selden!
Glad to see him hit double-digits. Welcome back, Wayne!
Here is Brannen… Natural Born World-Shaker!
wrwlumpy last edited by wrwlumpy
Finally HEM, I found a way to agree with you.
“He makes us a better overall team. His defense is not at the level of Oubre or Selden. We know that. But Greene is closing the gap.”
All I know is that he sure does get the crowd going when he hits those beauties. I thought you were writings Fran’s script today.
VailHawk last edited by
just take 8 minutes away from Selden, and give those to Greene. Both would be at 22. Or put Greene at 25 and Selden 19.
AGREED!!! Also keep in mind Greene’s shooting % is much better than Selden’s. So if he played 8-11 minutes more and Selden less it seems we would add 4-8 pts per game on offense.
One could argue Brannen would give up more points on defense but on most nights I think his offensive output would outweigh any defensive detriment.
truehawk93 last edited by
@drgnslayr Love Cool Hand Luke…He my boy
truehawk93 last edited by
I think splitting mins would be fine between Greene and Selden. All i know is Selden hit a few 3s in this game. But he also clanked a few too. Greene is our dead eye sniper and seems to gain confidence with each game. He does me proud when he steps up and nails those 3s.
I say, let it fly BG. You don’t limit a hot shooter and Self knows it too or you’ll stifle him.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@JayHawkFanToo read on KU sports, Selden did it to BG, celebrating. Got him under the throat? Really missed that.