Coaches K and Donovan vs. Coaches Self and Cal

  • In sports, you simply aren’t considered a real champion until you have defended your title successfully. Winning it once can be a fluke; winning it twice proves you are the best.

    –Althea Gibson

  • Banned

    So hard to do in this In the new age of the OAD, but I do see your point.

    As a college basketball fan one almost has to feel cheated. Never really getting to know the new freshman. Never really getting a chance to bond with them. Never really getting to feel their pain when they fail, or celebrating when they are successful. Never having that opportunity to watch these young bright eyed and bushy tailed boys become men, and a force to be reckoned with. One day they are there and the next they are gone. Then the conversation turns to reload. 😞

    I almost feel like the college game is dyeing. I wasn’t around to really witness the dominance of the UCLA era? Ok maybe I was around but I was too young to really understand. Not taking away from the Wizard and the UCLA era of dominance, it must have been something to watch. However as a KU fan and college basketball fan I would have to think how boring is this? I mean you, know who’s going to win. A fan is just watching to see if by the grace of God or some magically being that an upset could happen.

    As you can see it’s an issue I wrestle with. As I’m right there screaming and pumping my fist when KU gets a big time recruit, and sadden when they chose another school. I know in my heart I want KU to dominate the game of college basketball, yet apart me wants to cling to the history of KU and it’s alumni’s. As we can talk total wins, conference championships, Final Four appearances, and the number of national championships (Just for the record I do believe KU was cheated out of some championships because of the east coast basis)(LOL), but it’s what KU has done for the game. For we (I say we because I think fans are important in this) nursed the game, we protected the game, and in some ways leveled the playing field so all fans can enjoy the game we call basketball. 🙂

    Having said that, hell yes I want HCBS and KU basketball to win two or three, or four, (I think you get my point) National Championships in a row. 😉

  • @DoubleDD

    I will always be pro-KU. (obviously)

    But this year I’m focusing more on being anti-UK.

    It’s not just my disdain for Calipari. And I have nothing against the great fans from Kentucky. Those people breath college hoops every bit as much as Kansas fans, and deserve respect.

    But I’m against stacking the deck. I’m against one team having 9 McDs AA… whether it be Kentucky, Kansas, or anyone else. I hate regulations… but the game will go better if there is a ranking system counted and teams are limited to how much talent they can stack on a team. I never thought it would come to this. But it has.

    I watched a good Duke team last night beat down UCONN, the defending champions. It was a great game, and Duke looks like a real contender. But let’s see what happens when they face the buzz saw of UK. Let’s see Okafor dominate 3 7-footers. I hope he can. I’m hoping Duke stays healthy this year because they may be one of the few teams capable of beating UK. I’ve suddenly joined my east coast family and I’m also supporting Duke. I’m supporting any team with a shot to beat the stacked team.

    Duke resembles Kansas. Signs a few top players, then has to build a real team. They aren’t an all-star team like Kentucky. No other school is an all-star team.

    My biggest hope for this year is Kentucky doesn’t win a NC. My biggest hope is they lose and the basketball world mocks every player for buying in to their stacked deck system. My biggest hope is that top tier talent starts to second guess Calipari’s strategy of stacking a deck.

    If my biggest hopes don’t come true, Calipari will continue along his path of destroying college basketball for his own personal gain. His goal is not to sign 9 McDs AAs on one team. His goal is to sign 13 McDs AAs. It will not only give him more depth, it will remove 4 more threats going to other teams. More is better. That is what he has turned college basketball into. Quantity over quality. Yes, his players are quality, no doubt about that. But they aren’t going through the challenges they would have faced if each of their elites played for another team where they were counted on to produce, day in and day out. Playing on a team of all-stars means they all need to just not play horrible in order to beat teams that are playing for their lives.

    Calipari is killing college hoops. He killed a great story in WSU last year. A team that should have made it to the championship game. That story is dead. This isn’t about supporting WSU. This is about supporting college basketball. WSU was a great story last year and was good for college basketball. Now, it is just a footnote. Duke has a great story this year in Okafor and Jones. Another story that will end up a footnote to Kentucky’s sluggish “Dream Team.”

    I’m a lot less focused on college hoops this year. Because I don’t like seeing my dreams become another footnote for Kentucky’s Dream Team. I’m not ready to turn the television off. But if Kentucky steam rolls college basketball, follows up with signing in even more guys buying in to the platoon system, I’ll be gone from college basketball. It’s too sickening to watch. And I don’t feel that way because it isn’t Kansas doing the steam rolling. I’m glad it’s not. I’m glad it isn’t Kansas, who was instrumental in the birthing of college basketball, is the one instrumental in killing it.

    This isn’t a repeat of UCLA. They didn’t stack the deck like Calipari is doing. They had their fair share of big talent, but they still had to fight for every win. UCLA never stacked up 9 McDs AAs.

  • @drgnslayr

    This was the whole point of my “I’m done” rant a few weeks back. I hate it that our great sport has been relegated to let’s cheer against Kentucky, but that’s what it is. I’m sure fans of every program out there that might have a chance this year is cheering against Kentucky, and short of a Misery winning, would rather see anyone win other than Kentucky.

    As for Kentucky fans, I always thought they were annoying, usually from reading message boards on game stories. Well then I attended the championship game in New Orleans and my opinion grew worse. I actually saw a woman wearing a T-Shirt that said “This bitch bleeds Kentucky blue” I know we probably have a few wack jobs that are fans of our team too, but I would be willing to bet what’s in my stocking that you would never see a KU fan wearing a trashy T-Shirt like that.

    Now we did meet some decent Kentucky folks, but then in come 6 kids from uk into the row right below ours in the nosebleed seats. Not a Kentucky section, just fans from both teams mixed throughout. The idiots stood the whole game. I asked them to sit, and this kid, I’m old enough to be his father mind you, tells me if I want to watch the game that I can watch it on the big screen. Those seats are steep and boy did I just want to ‘accidentally’ push him down, but that would have made me like them. We did find some empty seats from which I could act like a crazy old man watch Lamb three point us right out of the game.

  • Duke had the #1 recruiting class in 2014.

  • Banned

    @wissoxfan83 I’m sorry I would’ve pushed him 😉

  • @drgnslayr

    Interesting note. Last night the headline on the ESPN site was: “Duke passes test.” What? and I mean WHAT? UConn is not even ranked in the top 40, how can it be considered a test for the #2 team in college BBall? They game was played at The Izod Center, formerly the Meadowlands Arena, which is the Blue Devils’ home away from home in the New York City metropolitan area. Duke is now 21-1 in the building and has won 14 straight.

    Another interesting note. Dayton, a team that made to the Elite 8 last year, dismissed two players from the team for violation of rules; these two players happened to be the two tallest and now the team does not have a single player over 6’-6", making it perhaps the shortest team in Division I. Hats off to Archie Miller for placing integrity and character over winning games; I cannot think of many coaches that would do that. At UK, these players probably would have received a new car and a night out with Drake.

  • @DoubleDD Well, my wife was with me, so you know, I really couldn’t!

  • @JayHawkFanToo

    In actual games this year, I’ll only cheer for Duke if they play Kentucky or Missouri. I was definitely cheering for UCONN in that game and felt Duke got a million, typical “Duke calls” from the refs. Even Duke grad Jay couldn’t continue to lie for those calls. It was the difference in that game.

    Still… Duke is good, and their young freshmen are far ahead of ours. Okafor and Jones are the “real deal.” Those kids deserve headlines and success if they continue to work hard. They, like some other teams today, shouldn’t play second fiddle to a platoon of all-stars.

    Even though I’m clearly not a Duke fan, I respect quality ball and coaching. You won’t hear me bad mouth Coach K like I do Calipari. I don’t have harsh words for any other coach in D1 today. I respect Izzo, Williams, Donovan, Ollie, the Mayor… etc., etc., etc.

  • Duke totally impressed me against Wisconsin. Really good team.

    Notice our disdain for Kentucky is so deep that it actually has us semi-pulling for Duke? Ugh, gasp cough.

    Our worst nightmare would be it comes down to Kentucky-Duke and they have another 1992 Christian Laetner type ending. We’d never hear the end of it, the greatest shot over part 2 or whatever.

  • @wissoxfan83 not me-pulling for Duke or Kentucky!

  • @drgnslayr Couldnt have said it better myself. Although, Duke has 9 Mickey D’s of their own. Im not certain it was coach K’s goal to get that many. It just happened to work out like that. Cal? Oh yah, I think he had this game plan all along. I think he wanted to get his stacked team in place all the way back in 08 when KU beat him and his then “dream team.” It seems to me that the obvious final four teams this year will be Arizona, Wisconsin, Duke and Kentucky. If that comes to pass, I hope Wisconsin wins it all.

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Cole did not not face Duke while at KU, so you must be thinking of the UNC pasting in 2008 at the Final Four, where Cole dominated Hansbrough.

  • @JayHawkFanToo yes!!! Thx!

  • @Crimsonorblue22

    Oh yes indeed. That was a Final Four for the ages where all 4 # 1 seed made…and KU won it all!!!

  • @wissoxfan83 “Our worst nightmare would be it comes down to Kentucky-Duke and they have another 1992 Christian Laetner type ending. We’d never hear the end of it, the greatest shot over part 2 or whatever.”
    Yeah, disdain for Kentucky is an understatement from my perspective. I truly hate them. the whole lot of them.
    Dude, if that game actually happens, I hope Duke wins exactly like that. Just rip the fracking heart right out of coach Cal’s chest and eat it right there on the court.

  • @JayHawkFanToo If Wisconsin, Duke, Kentucky and Arizona all win their conference titles, they could all be the #1 seeds and make that final four happen again. It is very possible that could happen again this year.

  • @JayHawkFanToo one of my favorite games! I watched Cole play last pm. He’s getting a chance too, started, had a double/double.

  • @Lulufulu

    This is what I would love to see: UK, Arizona, Duke and KU all #1 make it to the Final Four

    UK beats Arizona and KU beats Duke in the semis; Coach K re-injures his hip and is carried off the court by Bilas and Vitale who keeps repeating…serendipity baby!

    KU faces UK in the finals and hits everything it shoots; Oubre posterizes both twins…twice, Alexander blocks the hyphenation out of Cauley-Stein and Karl-Antony Towns and Calipari sets a new record for sweatiest shirt and oiliest hair. KU wins by 30 while Olivia Wilde laughs and Ashley Judd sobs; the entire UK team signs up with a team in the Ukrainian League who adopts Ronald McDonald as its mascot.

    P.S. On a side note, P-Diddy wearing a KU t-shirt beats up Drake while chanting Rock Chalk Jayhawk; the video goes viral and a recording of the chant climbs to #1 in the Rap, R&B and Rock charts; It also climbs to #2 in the Country Music Charts where #1 is …How sweet it is to be beat by you…by Ashley Judd with the Judds as backup singers.

    Oh well…it could happen…

  • @JayHawkFanToo I’m dreaming-----------

  • @Crimsonorblue22 I watched that game too, primarily because I’m a Bulls fan. Was surprised to see Cole play so much. Was fun to watch.

  • @JayHawkFanToo Upvote for the KU payback and beatdown scenario.

  • @wissoxfan83

    Hypothesis: What we are learning about Self’s players in the pros is that there are a lot of flipping idiots in the pros that cannot figure out how to use fundamentally sound players that have one or two strong suits.

    The only guys 3/4s of NBA management can recognize as players are guys that infants still overworking pacifiers could recognize to be players; i.e., superstars.

    I am serious about this.

    Jordan used to talk, if you read between the lines, about how utterly stupid the Bulls owner and GM were about basketball. The only correct thing they did was hire Phil to replace Doug and that took the same kind Basketball IQ it would have taken to hire Wilt to replace Vlade Divac.

    Seriously. Seriously.


    NBA management in three fourths of the franchises are morons that couldn’t figure out how to sell water to thirst crazed tourists lost in the Gobi desert.

    Everyone of KU’s guys has struggled at the start in the NBA.

    Maybe it has to do with our guys being adidas guys and the NBA being a big Nike brothel where all the Nike coaches have to shaft our guys for the good of Duopoly Wars, or something.

    But I really think the NBA managements are just idiots.

    Self’s guys generally have to float around a couple of years until someone knowledgeable gets invovled before they get their time to show they are rotation players.

    I mean, its insane. Aldrich even went to a team originally that was supposed to understand him, and those idiots reduced him to a D-leaguer.

    Then they do the trade around thing. You know the NBA trade around thing; that’s where owners and GMs that can’t even figure out what personnel they need trade players to manage the payroll. Idiots trading with idiots.

    Once Cole finally got off the Conveyor Belt of NBA GM Stupidity, surprise surprise, Phil Jackson becomes President of the Knicks and picks him up and tells Mike Woodson to send him to the Erie Jayhawks to find out if he’s sound, then kicks him back up to the L to buy him the breathing room to cut a moron (Odom), marginalize a head case (Chandler), give a real player (Amare) fighting injury a decent backup (Cole).

    Its amazing how Self’s guys flourish when they connect with someone that really knows what they are doing…REALLY.

    Give Self Kevin Durant and three years and he would win an NBA title that that light weight at OKC never will.

    There is no substitute for real intelligence and Basketball Knowledge!

    Rock Chalk Phil!

    Rock Chalk Bill!

    Rock Chalk Jayhawk pros.

  • @Jaybate, I just saw that TRob played 27 minutes tonight in a 3OT win. He has barely been sniffing the court. Didn’t produce a whole bunch in that time however.

  • @wissoxfan83

    As I mentioned in a different post, Lopez, the Portland Center broke his hand and he is out for a while; TRob should be getting minutes now.

  • TRob playing post in the L for a footer.

    Oh my!

    Hoping Phil trades for TRob.

  • @drgnslayr I love your post. Great reading. But Duke has 9 McD’s All Americans as well. Aren’t they part of the problem…just as much as UK? I tend to hate both programs equally for the most part. Coach Cal is really the only thing that makes me hate UK more.

  • I don’t mind the talent stacking, honestly. Part of that is because I like watching elite players playing together, which is why I enjoy the NBA so much, particularly compared to college ball.

    I want to see top notch guys playing together instead of seeing top players so spread out that lesser teams just double and triple team the greats.

    Have you ever been to a high school game with only one elite player? Those games suck because most of the time the opposing team just sends double and triple teams at them and you end up in a sluggish game with no rhythm. I hate those games. I would much rather watch great players surrounded by other good and great players because then you have great teams.

    Look back at the teams we consider great. The Celtics of the 60s with Russell, Cousy, Jones, White, etc. 7 and 8 HOF on the roster at a time. The Showtime Lakers with Magic, Kareem, James Worthy, etc. The Bird, McHale, Parish Celtics, with Danny Ainge and Bill Walton and Dennis Johnson. Loaded teams are more fun to watch because great players can be incredible when you have to play them honest.

    Yeah, that may mean that only 15 or 20 teams in a given year are any good, but college basketball probably is at its best when there are a dozen or less teams on which the elite talent plays because that means E8 and F4 matchups that are absolutely epic. The kind of games you remember for years. The 08 F4 is special because you had 4 top notch teams with over 20 eventual pros matched up. Would it be as good if a Cinderella had made it instead? I doubt it.

    For my taste, give me a loaded Duke and UNC and KU, Texas, Kentucky, Florida, UCLA, Arizona and maybe a couple others and see how those games turn out in the tournament.

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