No Hot seat for this coach
I wasn’t sure how to take this point of view? At first I was like no way would KU faithful put up with a defeated season, then I thought you know the Jayhawks have only had like 8 coaches (correct me if I’m wrong) in their history. Curious to what you guys think?
approxinfinity last edited by approxinfinity
@DoubleDD The only way Kansas has a 0-32 season is if we are stripped of all of our wins for an infraction. Otherwise, the talent we have would win at least 10 games without a coach.
Would KU faithful put up with being stripped of all of our wins for one season and retain Self? I’d say probably, provided the offending act is reconcilable. But it would be devastating and divisive for the fanbase, and really bad for the image of the university and for the image of Self. I don’t really want to imagine where that would leave the program.
Crimsonorblue22 last edited by
@approxinfinity wow, we could talk forever if that happened!!
nuleafjhawk last edited by
@DoubleDD I think Kerry Miller must sell Girl Scout cookies for a living and write about basketball in his spare time. He had WAAAAY too much time on his hands when he came up with that article.
Besides, it’s impossible for us to go " defeated " when we play K-State 2 or 3 times per year.
@nuleafjhawk of course it’s just crazy talk to think KU would go defeated in any one season. However taking a rather boring article and mining it for a nugget or two. This was the best I could come up with. LOL
justanotherfan last edited by
The absolute worst that KU would probably do barring something truly catastrophic or tragic, would be probably 13 or 14 losses. That would take a lot of injuries, suspensions and other problems. Simply put, the only way to have a season that would be pretty bad would require things that are out of the coach’s hands. Otherwise, KU is basically set to win 25 games again this year, if not more.
drgnslayr last edited by drgnslayr
I don’t believe this article for a second.
You don’t go to the prized basketball schools and put their coaches on a level where they are untouchable. First… it just isn’t true. At Kansas, we have high expectations and we expect to win. If Self stops winning, we’ll start looking around.
The safest jobs are at schools where they hardly care about their program and don’t have high expectations. They probably aren’t winning a lot of games now, so it would be tough for a coach to play much worse, at least bad enough to make a change.
Self has one of the greatest jobs in America… but it is also one of the toughest. When we don’t see him on a court, he’s at an airport, flying out to see a recruit. He’s hustling not only because he is a competitor and he is being paid well in a good job, he’s hustling to save his job, too.
If Self goes several years and we finish no better than the middle of the pack in the Big 12, and don’t get offered to the tourney in March, people will start talking. In some ways, Self has made it tougher on himself by being so successful. Now success is expected out of him every single year.
@drgnslayr that’s kind of what I thought also. Yet I guess my question is? What would it take for the fans and brass of KU to start looking for another coach. How many get out of jail free cards has HCBS earned? Would a scandal like the UNC Roy Williams be enough? or how many losing seasons would it take? Would a lack of tournament success be the nail in the coffin?
*****Just for the record I’m not advocating getting rid of our beloved HCBS, as I hope he finishes his days as KU’s head coach.
justanotherfan last edited by
I think it would take at least two consecutive seasons missing the tournament, or four consecutive subpar seasons (finishing worse than third in conference, no advance past the Sweet Sixteen) to start the conversation about firing Self. He could be terrible each of the next two years and, aside from a serious scandal, would still get at least one more year to redeem himself.
Look at Mack Brown at Texas. That’s absolutely a football school. He won a title in 2005, went back to the title game in 2009. After that he had a terrible season (5-7), then three okay but not great years. That was enough to get him pushed out. I think that’s about what it would take for Self. And consider that Mack Brown was not regarded as a top coach, so Self may have even more leeway than that.
The best “overall” coach in college basketball isnt in any hot seat…I’d be more worried that he gets professionally bored & leaves on his own to seek a different challenge (NBA). 2 alarming tidbits:
1) Just watched Popovich’s team-ball approach beat the hell out of the supastar-Heat…now he knows his intense approach can work in the NBA…
2) Why did he himself let out in public the fact he “asked the Cavaliers about their coaching vacancy”? (He told us because he didnt want it leaking out in an uncontrolled fashion)…And he was quick to say he wasnt applying or expressing interest in that job, more rather just getting info about requirements about pro head coach positions in general… … …Okay…but again, WHY would Bill Self even be curious or gathering info on it?
Make no mistake, the above 2 facts make me very nervous that we lose da Man sooner (rather than later to retirement). Its not about $$ as Zenger signed Self to a 10yr, $52mil deal last year, which is DOUBLE the yearly salary that ANY rookie head coach (nba) could hope to earn. He wins another NC at KU, I sadly think he’s a goner.
This has cast a further pall, a very long shadow on my own fan intensity: one year soon he’s gone, guess what happens to our program’s recruiting & yearly win total. Oh, I think we’ll make the Dance, but there is sooo much to this coaching job that is charisma & personality, that most other coaches simply do not have (to Self’s level, specifically). With his recruiting + coaching philosophy, he’s been devastating opponents & recordbooks ever since Tulsa days.
It doesnt help me feel any better that I share the same philosophy about basketball defensively that Self espouses…his loss would sting that much more. I missed Roy exactly as long as it took to realize Self’s sytem was simply better in all respects. And thats saying something, because Roy gave us 15 great yrs of ball, & was a worthy coach of the legacy in his own right, so this is no slam on Roy Williams.
Sorry, fellow jhawks, I really have been in the doldrums about KU basketball as we know it, ever since the 2 above facts came to light. Oh, I’ll still root for KU forever, as there is that KU diploma on my wall…but KU basketball just wont/cant be the same without my man Self. Help!! Its Self’s own track record of excellence that has elevated him into a basketball god/icon. He did this himSelf, as skeptical KU faithful needed some convincing in 2003 when “KU gets the Illini head coach”…didnt we? Now its about to come full circle, I fear…
JayHawkFanToo last edited by JayHawkFanToo
I am confused about Item 2. I knew the Cavaliers had contacted him as have many other teams before…
and here …
But I don’t know where you got the information that he “asked the Cavaliers about their coaching vacancy.” Do you have any links to that information? Now, I am really curious…and worried???
My recollection was that the Cavs contacted Self about Wiggins, and they had more than 1 discussion about Wiggy. Im sure Self did his best to convince them about Wiggins, and it worked: they picked him overall #1, which is a feather in Self’s/KU’s hat…but from my recollection of the LJW article, Self “asked about the position”. Now I dont know if they tried to pitch him the job (I seem to recall not), but since he had some sort of discussion, I think he then realized his name may get dropped in some (prospective) “list of possibilities”, and he didnt want post-facto discovery leading to outrage from the fanbase. He isnt making Frank Martin’s mistake, even if he wasnt interested in the Cav job, per se.
What bugs me, as a ku fan & alum, is that some part of him felt like asking. He is so savvy about never say never, & maybe he isnt making Roy’s mistake/gaffe either, but you just never know where such idle thoughts may lead. What is clear by his own admission, is that he indeed had some idle “curiosity” about some specifics of an nba head coach position…
DoubleDD Banned last edited by DoubleDD
@ralster I think it’s only natural for a College HC that has been successful as BS to flirt with the NBA. It’s only human nature to want to be the best at what you do. So I kind of give HCBS a free pass on having an eye on the NBA.
Not to mention his chosen profession is a tough business. Just look at some of the topics and comments coming down the last few years. Some Jayhawk fans have already begun to chirp about HCBS’s tournament success or lack there of. So you see very few Head Coach’s stay with one school their whole tenure. Whether it be they were forced out or moving onto something better. It’s just the nature of the business.
HCBS is at the pinnacle of College Basketball. There really is no other place for him to go in the college game. In this day an age of greed and down sizing just for the sake of profits every person no matter what profession should be looking around. (just in case).
Having said all this and that. I believe HCBS will never leave KU unless a perfect situation comes along, or some code of conduct is broken that can’t be forgiven. Which I believe is impossible. As perfection is not practical unless we are speaking in the terms of the divine (God), and HCBS has a track record of not crossing those taboo lines that send you on the walk of shame.
It is my belief that HCBS will do, with much research and soul searching what it best for him and his family. He will dream and plan just like everybody else. Yet in the end reality and common sense will keep him at KU.
Just my two cents.
JayHawkFanToo last edited by
Is this the article you mentioned?
If it is, I only see where he contacted the Cavaliers about Wiggins. something all coaches do on behalf of their players; however, I don’t really see anything about asking them about the HC job.