School Lesson: You Can Have Your Austerity And Eat It, Too!



  • “KU to shuffle seating at Allen Fieldhouse”

    http://www2.kusports.com/news/2014/jun/05/ku-shuffle-seating-allen-fieldhouse/?mens_basketball

    They might as well have been honest with the title for that story:

    “Kansas to lose a chunk of their home court advantage…”

    It wouldn’t surprise me if we eventually stick the students over in the DeBruce Center and have them view the game on a big screen. We might as well… at least they could see some of the action that way. Maybe we could build a sound tunnel so their screams could be piped in to AFH.

    This is horrible news. AFH should be restructured to put more students near the floor to protect our home court advantage and to make sure AFH remains at the top of college basketball prestige. Noise and energy is a big part of that advantage. How many times now have we heard about our players picking Kansas because of AFH?

    I understand revenue is important… but what we are doing is giving away a big part of our advantage that will one day bite us in the backside. Students are being isolated away from the game. Do you really think they will cheer as loud when their seats are moved away from the court? It is embarrassing enough today, with all the prime seating close to the floor given to a crowd that has the same energy as the crowd at bingo night at any retirement care facility.

    What perfect timing for this to happen… right when students evacuate Lawrence for the summer. This is not the time for them to organize a rebellion. They’ll have to deal with it in the fall, after those seats have been given away. And when those seats are gone… they are gone! It’s almost impossible to throw out donors once they are planted closer to the action.

    It is hard to believe the student government is responsible for this. Were they advised that this would be the result if they voted to reduce the student athletic fee? I seriously doubt it. I bet Marchiony (and others) were chomping at the bit to find a way to further enhance donor seating while maintaining a scapegoat to escape the wrath from the displaced fans. This situation was a perfect solution to them.

    The only possibility for students to keep these seats is to create a mega-conflict now! Defend your turf like any sovereign entity would!

    They should consider this with an adult mind and realize that if they allow themselves to get pushed around once, they’ll continue to get pushed around in the future.

    They better start getting used to the idea of watching Jayhawk basketball from the DeBruce Center!



  • @drgnslayr

    I guess you missed the memo…college sports are all about money.

    This is juts following the national trend of getting more money from your better seats. If the AD is to be believed, the number of tickets available to students will not decrease and they will actually play less for the package.



  • @JayHawkFanToo just further away from court, right?



  • I think I read the student committee voted to reduce student fees by 1.1 million. I would guess they saw all these huge TV deals increasing by millions and thought there was plenty of money flying around to cover it. And there is, however the fund raisers saw an opportunity to even get more money for the best seats in the house-(behind the KU bench).

    I’d rather have the students sitting there.



  • @JayhawkRock78 I’d imagine coach Self would rather the students be there too! KU athletics usually does everything to please Self, surprised this got by him!



  • I have a new seating chart-they are calling the first section in U, the bench club.



  • An absolute necessary move. To allow for $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 annual raise for salary of head coach. Gotta keep up with Kentucky and inch closer to Duke.



  • @drgnslayr Couldn’t agree with you more slayr. This is a travesty!



  • @REHawk

    That’s what ShoeCos are for! ;)



  • @JayhawkRock78

    The seats behind the KU bench have had huge price tag for while now. A friend of mine, and former Dean of one of the bigger schools at KU and Williams Fund contributor, held a pair of tickets on the fourth row behind the KU bench. When Lew Perkins went to the “point” system. he was told it would cost him $40K per ticket to get “caught up” enough to keep the seats and an ongoing $6K-$8K per year, in addition to the actual cost of the tickets, to keep them; needless to say he declined the offer and was moved to a muck less desirable location.

    Essentially all desirable court side seats come with huge price tag and have been that way for while now and they are purchases mostly by corporations. It always pi-$-$-es me off to see yuppie couples with young kids, with little or no actual interest for the game, sitting court side and not showing the enthusiasm Jayhawk fans are known for…i hate it but I also understand that it is the new reality.



  • I’m the counter-point here. Here’s what I posted today at kusports -

    This is a terrific lesson for college students. Decisions aren’t made in a vacuum. There are consequences.

    Personally, treating 120 donors to prime seats to help ensure their continued contributions is the better use of the seating.

    Yea, I know, everyone hates folks with money and derogatorily refer to them as the “wine and cheese” crowd. But the reality is, most donors worked very hard for their money (most as KU grads) and are the exact model KU grads should aspire to. Their money keep the athletic programs going.

    So 120 student seats are displaced, moved to less prime locations.

    Well, you shouldn’t have voted to eliminate the fee. Life lesson learned


    I will also say that I get completely irritated at the assumptions. The assumptions that folks that have money to sit courtside don’t know the game, or have no interest in the game. I am quite sure that the season ticket holders know KU hoops, appreciate KU hoops, and know the game of basketball much better than a large majority of the masses of students. Heck, I didn’t appreciate near as much when I was there, and I knew a fraction of the history of KU hoops that I know now.

    @JayHawkFanToo said “It always pi-$-$-es me off to see yuppie couples with young kids, with little or no actual interest for the game, sitting court side and not showing the enthusiasm Jayhawk fans are known for…i hate it but I also understand that it is the new reality.”

    That “yuppie couple” may have both graduated from KU with advanced degrees, paid their dues, and happen to be pretty darn successful. And you’re saying that a student has more right or more merit in where he/she sits? Or that the “yuppie couple” doesn’t know KU hoops or the game?

    That’s just crap.

    Isn’t the purpose of going to school at KU, in part, to become successful? At least in part? To make money, support your family?

    I go to games, always have. I took my young kids for the experience. I don’t cheer like students do. I enjoy the game. I don’t scream when we score, and I don’t scream when we don’t. I’ve spent a boat load of my money on that university, and whether I’m rich, poor, or somewhere in between, I have as much right to be there as the student. Actually, I’ve put in a hell of a lot more time with KU than any current student, that’s for damn sure. So I really think that I, you, we – have more a claim to spot in Allen Fieldhouse than any current student.

    But happily, there is room for both, and we’re all on the same side. In this case, 120 measly seats were rearranged. Students lost no seating. Big deal.

    As much as so many in this country seem to hate the reality, it is folks with money that create jobs, create opportunity, and provide the fuel for our economy. Same way in college athletics. It is fact.

    Again, this whole deal might save a student his job sometime in the future. He/she may feel that something is unfair a work, and feel that it is wise to get his co-workers together to challenge “the man.” And then he/she will learn the hard way that “employment at will” means you can be fired with or without cause. Thanks for the input, have a nice life.

    Perhaps the principle is worth it. But each action, creates some reaction. Again, life lesson learned.



  • @HighEliteMajor I understood the student senate voted on it, not the student body???



  • @Crimsonorblue22 Right. Senate representing the students. Do I hear recall vote?



  • @HighEliteMajor I guess the counter-point to your counter-point is: where does it end?

    By you rationale, all the successful, KU grads who have put in more money into the university - either via tuition, donations, ticket purchases, etc. - have more of a right to seats than the students. So what do you do when another 120 KU grads with money come calling to the university wanting seats? And the next 120?

    Do we not stop until the students are in the DeBruce Center, as slayr said? Until it’s an NBA atmosphere and they’re pumping loud music in throughout the game to help create the feel of some psuedo-energy?

    And the argument that “it’s just a measly 120 seats. Big deal” is flimsy. If it wasn’t a big deal, why bother in the first place?

    I think at the end of the day, economics aside, you can’t tell me that having less students or students farther away from the action is best for a college atmosphere.



  • @icthawkfan316 I say “big deal” because 120 seats is not a big deal when it comes to moving students. I actually think it’s a big nothing. It is a big deal money wise. Smart move that we’ll forget about by the time the season rolls around.

    Now, where does it end? Like laws that limit civil liberties, it’s hard to know the line until you see it. But I do trust the KU administration on this one. It’s not a slippery slope.



  • @HighEliteMajor I think it sucks! And I yell and scream the whole game on my top row! I’m on the students side. We gave our worthless women’s coach a raise, there’s a great deal of that money. Just my opinion!



  • @HighEliteMajor

    @JayHawkFanToo said “It always pi-$-$-es me off to see yuppie couples with young kids, with little or no actual interest for the game, sitting court side and not showing the enthusiasm Jayhawk fans are known for…i hate it but I also understand that it is the new reality.”

    That “yuppie couple” may have both graduated from KU with advanced degrees, paid their dues, and happen to be pretty darn successful. And you’re saying that a student has more right or more merit in where he/she sits? Or that the “yuppie couple” doesn’t know KU hoops or the game?

    That’s just crap.

    We all have opinion and that is exactly what I posted, I gave my opinion based on my own experience. As I indicated, I went to large number of games and sat on the fourth row behind the KU bench and I am intimately familiar with the people that sat at court side. A large number of them were using corporate seats, many were not even KU alumni and the majority sat there as it was a social event and not a college game, paid little attention to the game, did not get up when the game got exciting and the arena was rocking. Most of the younger kids did not even watch the game and were more interested in trips to the concession stands. This is even more prevalent now, and if you don’t believe me just look at ta KU game on TV and you will see that part of the court side crowds stays sited when the arena is rocking and when they eventually get up, is more out of shame than a true desire to cheer the team. In all honesty, this not that different that what you see in NBA games where you have your rabid, die hard celebrity fans such as Spike Lee and Nicholson that are there for just about every game and the A-listers/celebrities that show up just for the publicity and to be seen. and look bored and do not pay much attention to the game…but then again, those are professional, for profit, and not college teams.

    You wrote “I will also say that I get completely irritated at the assumptions.” and yet all you wrote are assumptions of your own, while what I posted was based on actual, close and personal, real world experiences and not assumptions. I guess you actually did not get (even when you quoted it) the parts where I wrote…“I hate it but I also understand that it is the new reality.”

    You also wrote “Yea, I know, everyone hates folks with money and derogatorily refer to them as the “wine and cheese” crowd.” Perhaps this reflects your own biases and prejudices and you should not assume everybody else feels the same way. I for one have worked hard and done rather well in life and have no reason to begrudge people that have done equally well or better.

    I find it very disingenuous that you trumpet “your” own assumptions as facts, while calling the actual facts i posted “crap.”…oh well, to each his own.



  • Most dogs bark. And some will even turn on you.



  • @JayHawkFanToo The “wine and cheese” comment, if you were following there, was from the post I made at kusports. I noted that. It was in response to a reference on that site. Had nothing to do with you. That’s why I referenced you below that, and below the line in my post.

    You say it was your own experience. I just call b.s. on that. You didn’t sample the crowd, test their knowledge, or have any understanding of their passion for the game. You simply referred, as many do, to the crowd that doesn’t show the “enthusiasm” or passion that you think justifies “sitting courtside.”

    Your “yuppie” comment smacked of the standard garbage that we see today – folks that happen be poor, or have less, or are disadvantaged in some manner are somehow more virtuous and meritorious in what they do. And that is exactly what you did there. That’s what I referenced as crap. Now you say you don’t begrudge people that do well — if that’s the case, then you might think about what you are saying. Perhaps you can then explain what you mean by yuppie couple, if that interpretation is not correct.

    Two definitions I found for yuppie that square with my assumptions on your comments - “A term used to describe someone who is young, possibly just out of college, and who has a high-paying job and an affluent lifestyle. Can now be used to describe any rich person who is not modest about their financial status.” and “a young college-educated adult who is employed in a well-paying profession and who lives and works in or near a large city.”

    And no, I saw your quote – “I hate it but I also understand that it is the new reality.” But that has nothing to do with your opinions that I was responding too. Whether you “understand” the new reality doesn’t have anything to do with your “yuppie” slam.

    Your post is “actual facts” you say… that does make me laugh. “Actual facts.” Yuppies, young kids, “with little or no actual interest for the game.”

    “Actual facts.” You are the fact man.

    But you say it’s just your “opinion.”

    Again, and I know this is difficult for you to follow – I made the point that some folks actually don’t yell and scream, but may be very passionate. I cited myself as an example. So you don’t think that there are folks that have great passion that don’t yell and scream?

    And as for my own experience, when I was a student and after, there are students that go, scream, enjoy the experience, that have little understanding of the game. Never played it. Don’t understand a screen, or a hedge.

    I have no problem with that. None at all.

    But when folks (as is the premise of the thread) moralize that the students are somehow more meritorious than, say, generically, that 77 year old KU grad, who is an intense follower of KU hoops, knows the game inside and out, and has dumped thousands upon thousands of dollars into the program – but who happens to remain seated with his wife during the games – that does irritate me.

    Same applies to the “yuppie” couple you have “actual facts” about, or to myself and my daughter when we go, or other KU grads who buy tickets.



  • This is such a strong topic.

    Which way do you go? I’ve loved KU for it’s history, tradition, and ability to kick the crap of MU when the time needed it. KU’s history of preserving and advancing the game is unmatched, Yet you have schools like UNC, UK always laying claim to the mantle of true and greatest basketball school.

    Nobody has done as much for the game as KU. So why are UNC, UK able to make claims as the best ever? I was once talking to a UK fan that was telling me about all the wins and championships UK had.

    So asked him what has UK done to protect and advance the game. He shook his and said, “What do you mean?”.

    Trying to keep it simple I said, “What’s your coaching tree look like? Name some stud coaches that cut their teeth at UK.”

    He had no answer.

    I said all that to say this. KU must always protect the game and it’s traditions, as it’s the only one that has and can. However we must not forget the world is changing. With the very landscape of conferences changing, how we watch the game, and the money that is being ponied up. We must change too, or we will be left behind.

    I love the passion to keep the students close to the court. I really do. However those seats close to the court are big money seats. I know we all want to think of KU as this little Midwest College but it’s not. It has a national brand of basketball. The Jayhawk is known through out world. It’s merchandise is coveted and valuable. It has appeal to investors, and sponsors alike. Meaning those court seats have appeal to not only fans, but people with money too. Hell watching a game at KU has become a bucket list must thing to do.

    I know it sucks, but as MU showed us tradition isn’t everything. Now before you extremists get your sarcasm machines going. I’m not saying lets go all in or drive this baby over a cliff for the love of money. However I’m saying KU is in a tough spot. We need to protect the game but we also need to act like a school that has a National Brand of Basketball.

    Last time I checked it’s not uncommon to see courtside seats go to the highest bidder.



  • @HighEliteMajor

    You say it was your own experience. I just call b.s. on that. You didn’t sample the crowd, test their knowledge, or have any understanding of their passion for the game. You simply referred, as many do, to the crowd that doesn’t show the “enthusiasm” or passion that you think justifies “sitting courtside.”

    Your “yuppie” comment smacked of the standard garbage that we see today – folks that happen be poor, or have less, or are disadvantaged in some manner are somehow more virtuous and meritorious in what they do. And that is exactly what you did there. That’s what I referenced as crap. Now you say you don’t begrudge people that do well — if that’s the case, then you might think about what you are saying. Perhaps you can then explain what you mean by yuppie couple, if that interpretation is not correct.

    There you go again completely misrepresenting what I said. You have an arrogant and condescending attitude and believe that your assumptions are facts and someone else opinions, based on actual facts are “crap” or “b.s.” or “garbage.” I thought about refuting your post item by item but then it would really be a waste of my time and we would be right back at square one.

    This is a sport forum after all where we all express our own opinions. On occasions I disagree withe other members or they disagree with me, and we post our opinions on the subject; sometime I came around to their way of thinking and sometime they do, and when we don’t, we just agree to disagree and move on. You can check my posts and I don’t believe you will find a single time when I called other member’s opinions “crap” or “b.s.” or “garbage.”

    There is no arguing with you and I will not descend to the level where I start calling yours or other forum member’s opinions names.



  • @JayHawkFanToo I’m missing where you refute what I have said. And I guess I don’t see any clarification from you. You said the “yuppie” comment. You haven’t defended it. You referenced other things, but not that.

    You said it pisses you off (with dollar signs) to see “yuppie couples with young kids, with little or no actual interest for the game, sitting court side and not showing the enthusiasm Jayhawk fans are known for …” You follow up by saying you have “actual facts.” Your opinion is based on these “actual facts.”

    I called “b.s.” on that. The dollar signs in the word “pisses” certainly referenced money, and that was reinforced by you saying “yuppie.” You’re just looking at a family and saying to yourself, “hmmm, looks like they have money, mom and dad both there, looks like they aren’t cheering the way ‘we’ cheer, must have no interest in the game – so they shouldn’t be there.”

    Sorry, if you want to just post stuff like that and not get challenged, go somewhere where I’m not.

    I am still waiting for the explanation then on the “yuppie” comment and how that doesn’t mean what it clearly appears to mean, all based on your “actual facts.”

    Of course, your post, artfully dodges the subject matter. Your prior post referenced corporate seats and those that “weren’t even KU alumni”, that “sat there as (if) it was a social event.” Now it’s non alumi, corporate seats, and social events. Again, you know what a real KU fan is and should be at the game. But you didn’t address your “yuppie” reference, of course. You still don’t.

    For the record, I said your “yuppie” assumption was “crap.” I stand by that. You can’t (or won’t) even defend it. The “b.s.” thing was a reference to "calling “b.s.” – meaning that you were b.s.ing, and “garbage” reference was regarding the yuppie thing sounding like the “standard garbage that we see today.”

    Apparently, me “calling forum member’s opinions names” – meaning your opinion premised on “actual facts” about yuppies – has offended your sensitivities. That would be the whine and cheese crowd, for sure.

    But I do want to know why the “yuppie” couple “p-i-$-$-e-s” you off so much? Is it because you cheer more, or better; or that you don’t have kids to attend to at the games? Is it because you know that you know more than they do about KU basketball? Is it because you know it is a social event for them? Is it because they drive a BMW (maybe), or might have more money than you? Still curious.



  • This place is starting to sound a lot like .net. What’s going on?



  • Who is John Galt?


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