Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk To KU
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@HighEliteMajor Exactly. Hope Mason learns to do that over the summer! He can’t just go rushing in like a bull in the china shop and get nothing out of it. Competition amongst the players could prove to be a good motivating factor for all concerned.
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@HEM Just returned from a very long, grueling, sun-filled vacation. My brain is mush. I realized I said “start” later on and knew you’d call me on it
Your logic is much better than mine on the “why” they transferred later.
My opinion: Naadir had one foot out the door in January/February. Something just was not right with him. I could see it all over his face when I saw him the Fieldhouse. We also got a taste of his inner agony with his play, too. Then he acted out with “The Selfie” The timing of Naa’s departure was a culmination of his poor decision making, his homesickness, and knowing he barely kept his job last year and Davonte was coming in. I do agree with you that Graham played a part in his decision.
Re Andrew: I thought back in April and early May we would get the announcement from AWIII close to, or around the week of finals. I didn’t think he would want to announce right away, and deal with all of the stuff on campus for six weeks. He had already been fielding questions on it dating back to February and it was wearing on him. He could barely contain himself in the Jesse Newell interview. AWIII decision was more impacted by his knowledge that Greene is better than he is, and he would have been fighting an uphill battle against Greene AND Oubre.
These articles always use catchy words like: The next Manu Ginnobli or Immediate Impact guy, which sends the readers into an expectation setting frenzy. I’ve been reading the boards closely now for sometime, and it happens year after year. We believe in the hype too much and start giving away “starting roles” based on the hype. Look how long it took immediate impact, best player in the last ten years to actually impact the game? Maybe people have quickly forgotten that Andrew really wasn’t an “immediate impact” guy. He grew into it, and still left a lot to be desired.
The reason my opinion is that he will not play over Greene is simple. Self’s system requires experience, defensive toughness/quickness and a toughening box to excel, and equally important, as we saw with the Brady Morningstar effect: One must be able to pass it inside from the perimeter to initiate Bill’s offense. Brannen has already been through the toughening box, as well as being exposed to DI speed and court spacing. I expect a HUGE jump in his performance this year.
Bill is a fine wordsmith. He likes to use “immediate impact” loosely. If I recall correctly, Tarik was an Immediate impact guy, but Embiid wasn’t labeled as such. That ended up being reversed. This is a good way to help a kid feel good about their decision to choose Kansas but at the same time, not declare him a starter over current roster players. He also likes the phrase “there is nobody in the country better” or similar expressions. He won’t say “the best” but he will say he doesn’t know of anybody better. He chooses his words very, very well.
With your scenario:
Mason/Frankamp Selden/Oubre Greene/Svi
Ellis/Traylor/Mickelson/Lucas
The real battle for that 8th position is between Svi & Oubre, imho. Lucas, once again, odd man out
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I’m not discounting the damage Tharpe inflicted on himself with the selfie.
I know the selfie thing is generational… I’m surprised I even know what it means. But KU is a special place and students know it. I bet Tharpe faced some backlash even on a student level. I know his selfie ticked off lots of old gas alumnis like myself… and I’m sure it worked its way down to their kids who are KU students now.
From old folks down to little kids… in Kansas, most are familiar with the legacy of Jayhawk basketball, and most don’t like anything that can possibly tarnish it.
That seems to be something that pierces the generation gaps…
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The reality of recruiting is AWIII, and Landen Lucas are players that signed with Kansas on less than stellar recruiting years. As soon as the recruiting picks up, their usefulness to the program is for spirited practices, limited playing time, the possibility of a transfer, and not much more. We as fans, love the players, appreciate their efforts, and hate to see them go. I believe that when AWIII asked Coach Self where he stood, Coach Self told him the truth. Something along the lines of I love having you here, but if I can do better than you, I will. I cannot promise you anything other than practice time and an education.
Over the past two years, the bar to be one of the 'Great Eight" at Kansas, meaning you will get decent playing time, has been raised quite high. If you look at the top 8 players: Ellis, Oubre, Selden, and Alexander, that’s four Mc Donald’s All Americans. Conner Frankamp/Brannen Greene (Very well could have been a McDonald’s All Americans. Traylor, spent the past 3 years, including one year as a red-shirt learning Coach Self’s System, and Mickelson, transfer, with a year learning Coach Self’s System. Combine that with two more elite recruits, and there just isn’t any room for players such as AWIII and Landen Lucas to get substantial playing time, unless they blow the Coach’s socks off and take it. AWIII made the right decision, after trying so hard for two years to earn playing time. It just was not coming. Better to transfer, and earn playing time elsewhere. I am sure he does not regret his decision to come to KU, but I don’t think he thought it would end this way either. Landen Lucas on the other hand, took the red-shirt immediately and will eventually get playing time. Maybe not as much as he would like, but playing time nonetheless. He has had two years in Coach Self’s system, and was only a Freshman last year.
That’s life at KU, one minute Coach Self is scrambling for players, adding a player such as Kevin Young, the next minute he has more talent than he knows what to do with. I love all KU players, I just try not to fall in love with any of them. Because, well, you never know…
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@icthawkfan316 I remember Bill also being supportive of Andrew when he originally said he was going to spend the summer playing with the Canadian team. But there was no covering up his joy when Andrew decided to show up in Lawrence for the summer. I suspect this might be the same way.
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When a recruit visits, does he get to work out with the team? Does the coach get to put him thru some drills, combine-like?
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If I had Frankamp and Greene on the floor, I’d tell the team to get them open and to only take 3s… When Sviat and Oubre show they are shooters on that level, the message would be the same to them.
In the meantime, they are driving and dishing in or out. And the bigs are rebounding and looking for dunks when the perimeter is crowded.
We should be taking shots from two locations: 1) Three-point line and 2) the Rim.
I would lead with threes given the quality of shooters on this team.
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Svi will not start over Greene. Neither would AWIII. AWIII saw both Greene and Oubre ahead of him, and I doubt very much he knew about this news before anybody else.
But Bill did and he influences the decision making process for these kids.
I look back at the Mario, Brandon, Julian, Micah recruiting class and think this one could be better assuming Svee is no Downs. But I don’t think this class will have 3 kids stick around 2-3 years, so the impact may be less.
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@oldalum I’d rather he be with the National team playing with Pro’s 10 years older than he. In watching all of his video, I realize that these are simply the highlights, but I’ve been amazed by his ball handling and I honestly can’t figure out if he is left or right handed. He has a left hand dunk from 8 feet away then an right handed dunk in the next clip, he goes right or left equally well. Brandon and Ben were both handicapped by only being able to go one direction. But then I calm down and back away from extreme expectation when I remember that he won’t turn 17 until next month.
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@dylans Good point. I would have to agree.
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I’ve been very busy with end of school stuff and two graduations to boot, so maybe someone has addressed this. Is there any possibility that this underaged kid doesn’t meet NCAA eligibility standards and would have to sit a year before suiting up?
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@wissoxfan83 No age limit and he must take the SAT’s, but he’s very smart with two Phd. parents and he can take the test in Ukrainian or English.
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@wissoxfan83 I’ve been told that there is no greater risk with this kid, than signing a kid from the good ole USA. So majority rules. No greater risk.
Signed,
Enes Kanter
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@dylans Micah Downs I remember was a player who was golden from the wrist. He had a beautiful stroke from deep, but didn’t take advantage of his 6’8" height. And he was somewhat a soft kid who couldn’t take Self ball and was home sick. So he went back home to Gonzaga. Interestingly according to euroleague.net, he played professionally in Kiev, Ukraine recently.
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=002015&seasoncode=E2013
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@wrwlumpy Svi spoke good English from the interview at Nike. If he is as smart as his pedigree suggests, he’d do quite well. Svi speaks better English than Sasha did when he got to KU, and Sasha graduated with a solid GPA (Academic All American?) majoring in Computer Science. Not sure if Svi can top that.
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Micah Down did relatively well in the NBDL but was not able to break into the NBA. Europe seem like a good destination since they like that finesse type of SF that Downs is.
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@JayHawkFanToo Looking at the euroleague.net stat page, Downs started 4 of 5 games he played and average 40% from 3. Not bad. He was a shooting guard at KU, and still is in the pros. Based on the current stat, he is 1.95 meters or about 6’5" instead of 6’8" with the KU inches. So Svi probably is comparable in the height (6’6" in shoes) and build, and athletic ability. We will have to wait and see how Svi develops and adapts to the physical game at KU.
Here is the statshee.com stats of Micah Downs in college, http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/gonzaga/micah-downs
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@JayHawkFanToo Good point about Downs. Thing with Micah Downs was, that of course, in most high schools, a 6’5 kid with athleticism and a ‘shot’ can dominate…but in college, especially at a royalty level Div1 level, where the coaches bring in the pick of the crop in well-rounded guys…there are going to be guys with good hops, good shot%…AND are also 205-220lbs (for a 6’5-6’6 SF). That’s exactly what happened to 185lb Micah Downs: He had to face 210lb B.Rush, who had one of the best 3pt% we’ve ever seen for a KU frosh, and he was bigger, and could play D. B.Rush set the standard. Now we can split hairs and say BRush is a “finesse” SF, but not when you compare him to Micah Downs. Also arriving about that time was Rodrick Stewart, a 6’5, 210+ lb pkg of muscle, and was a top50 recruit also (along with his twin brother Lodrick). Micah, while a very good player, simply got outclassed even on his own team…and just looking at NBA rosters, he’d be outclassed by almost all NBA 2s and SFs. Why would a coach play “small” or “thin”, unless he was forced to, like when Kevin Young started for us at the 4 the year we lost to Michigan. KYo could do some things, but he was no Thomas Robinson, who manned the position the year before.
This is what I think about Connor Frankamp, that physically he is at a disadvantage on his own team…this isnt the MVC, where Connor would have been a Day 1 starter for almost every MVC team. I hope he surprises us all by finding a niche where he can contribute that Bill Self accepts and uses. I’d love for Connor to shine at KU somehow…
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@ralster From the time knowing you on these boards and on kusports.com, I know you value the physical qualities. You like L&A guards. You like muscular players. In an everything created equal world, yes those are tremendous advantages to have and players with those qualities should take precedence over all others. You can’t teach length and athleticism. And muscle can be difficult to put on, especially in the right places.
However, at some point we have to make room for skill & basketball IQ. That is where Connor Frankamp gains the advantage. If this were track I’d agree, Connor is an MVC caliber player. But basketball is more about skill and the mental aspect than simply being a freakish athlete. Ask yourself, in March would you rather have the 5 best athletes on the court, or the 5 most skilled basketball players?
Now where this becomes perhaps a simple academic discussion is when we look at what Self is likely to prefer. Tough to say. On the one hand, we know he covets the things you can’t teach, because his ego tells him he can make good basketball players out of athletes. The Al Davis syndrome. We saw this with Tyshawn for years. The classic Self quote “He’ll make plays that you just can’t coach, then he’ll make plays that you wonder if he has ever been coached.” Did Tyshawn ever really “get it”? Senior year, particularly when conference play started, he played as good as any guard in the country. But was that due to him finally making smart basketball plays, or was it due to him finally finishing more shots at the rim and his trey gun improving?
On the other hand, we’ve seen Self go with the smart play. Playing Brady for years over guys like EJ & Releford. Brady was fairly average in the athleticism department. But he had a few simple things that made him a Self favorite. Things that some posters liked to mock (his entry passes to the post being one), which is pretty laughable, until you see the next guy throw it out of bounds or right into the hand of the defender.
Personally, I think CF should be the starting PG to start next year. To me, that wouldn’t be a “surprise”. I don’t think he should be looking for a “niche”. The comparison of Frankamp to the Downs-Rush situation is not a very good one in my opinion. As you stated, Rush had a good 3pt shot, and he was bigger and could defend. So basically the one plus Downs had in his bag, the 3pt shot, was matched by Rush and then he was “outclassed”. But when you put Frankamp up against say Mason, you don’t get the trey gun, or the basketball IQ, or the propensity to take care of the ball from Mason. So while Mason is bigger (bulk), stronger, faster than Frankamp, he doesn’t also match Frankamp’s strengths the way Rush matched those of Downs.
Of course who knows what improvements the players will have shown come November? Mason may have closed the gap with an improved outside shot. He may show more maturity when valuing the basketball. Or Connor may add 10 lbs of muscle to his frame and show quicker footwork on his defense. My point is, if the next season started right after the Stanford game, my vote would have been for Frankamp to run the team.
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@wissoxfan83 I’ve been told that there is no greater risk with this kid, than signing a kid from the good ole USA. So majority rules. No greater risk.
Signed,
Enes Kanter
I guess, @HighEliteMajor, it depends on how you define risk. Did recruiting Enes Kanter expose UK to more risk? I wouldn’t say so. Yeah, he was disqualified from amateur status, but that all happened before the season and it’s not like UK didn’t have plenty of great front court talent besides him. In that sense, even if there’s a greater chance that Svi isn’t allowed to compete, we’re less exposed because there is relatively little need for him in our back court. And it’s also not the case the UK incurred any penalties in terms of games stricken. If there’s any question about his eligibility, I’m sure Self will be prudent and hold him out of competition.
As far as a European flight risk (a la Pappapetrou), it could happen, but American players do this too (see Josiah Turner’s transfer to SMU or Aquille Carr and Seton Hall). Also, while I don’t know the specifics on Pappapetrou, given that Greece was/is going through unprecedented economic turmoil, I don’t find it difficult to believe that his family might have urgently needed the money. The Ukraine doesn’t have the greatest economy in the world, but the fact that Svi’s parents are both employed professionals gives me solace. It’s also not that different from players that transfer out of homesickness or in search of greener pastures.
Academic eligibility is a question mark because of the whole needing to pass an additional test, but like my first statement, even if he doesn’t pass, we’re really no worse off in the back court. So that wouldn’t be much different than the McLemore/Traylor/Anderson situation (particularly the Anderson part of it), only we’re not as exposed as we were then.
The risk of losing another player to transfer is definitely there, but that’s the same anytime we land multiple top players at the same position (like the aforementioned Downs/Rush affair). I think everyone is aware that the possibility exists that we add this kid, he plays for a year, then bolts for Europe all while spawning a transfer. It’d be unfortunate, but how damaging it really is depends on who and whether or not it’s something we can shore up on the recruiting trail/transfer market, and/or who’s left on the team after the fact.
The real worst case scenario would be that Svi is ruled ineligible after a title season and we have to remit a title. Truly that would be devastating, but that could happen with anyone (the McLemore scandal of last season certainly raised some hairs, but ultimately seems to have petered out). I’d be more afraid of this if A) I thought we were a real title favor (I’ll reserve judgement on that until after I see us compete against UK) or B ) the NCAA appeared to have any teeth theses days. The former is a nice problem to have. The latter, however, is something that I become less an less concerned about the more often that scandals come and go and nothing is done about them. From our own McLemore-gate or Pot-gate to Duke’s watch-gate or Cuse’s Pot-gate, there seem to be a lot of these things that spawn headlines each season and that, ultimately, nothing ever comes of. Even something the level of Miami-FL was so badly mishandled, it’s tough to take the threat seriously. I’ll wait to see the full fallout of OSU’s mess before I either pronounce NCAA rules enforcement dead or revived. I suspect, however, that it will continue to limp along as the gimped worm that it is.
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@ralster Rush certainly outclassed Downs, but I’m not sure if he would fail to shine if Rush had left after one year and he had stuck out all 4 years at KU. Downs was a 28th rated player just like Brannen Greene and about the same physical aspects. If Greene is capable going to the NBA per Coach Self, Downs might have as well. Guess the difference might be the desire and competitiveness. We will have to see what Greene is made of and whether he will be successful enough to get drafted.
Rod Stewart came before Downs and I don’t remember he was more effective than Downs. He was injured big time.
By the way. I updated KU recruiting 2002-2014
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@icthawkfan316 and @ralster You both made great points. I think Frankamp has the smarts and I like how he finished the season strong.
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@icthawkfan316 Great post & breakdown, ict. It really made me think about what not only I personally like, but what it seems Self likes…nothing more than pattern-recognition-with-hindsight as we try to figure what Self will do. Self tries to target long-athletic athletes, then tries to teach them to play at a high level. Intelligent decision-making, and with the basketball skills to finish in a variety of ways. He wants that out of his guards, but also out of his bigs. So I’ll “abstract” my discussion in to Self’s ‘ideal’ player, and not make this so much about Connor Frankamp, although I will refer to him a bit later here.
Here’s a list of attributes Self wants in his guards (1, 2, and wing positions):
1 – Skillset. Be able to score. Be able to shoot. Competent handles required. Knack for passing is a big plus. (See RussRob and Brady).
2 – Athletic. Quick feet, and fast-twitch abundance serves the player well if he is using his “first-step” quickness to blowby, or using his ability on the defensive end. Having hops is a plus, but that can vary. And for some, quickness on 1 end of the court is NO predictor of performance on the other (either) end of the court.
3 – Intelligence to learn the system. Be able to read and react to various presses and opposing D’s. Offensively we have dozens of set-plays to learn. I’ll quote Roy here as he talked about CJ Gile: “…bless his heart, he cant remember the plays for even the few minutes I get him in the game…”. Interesting that Self actually dismissed CJGile (not just for beating up his girlfriend)–what good is a jump outta the gym athlete if he’s in the wrong spot at the wrong time??? The polar opposite of CJGile would be Embiid, who just wasnt supposed to know all of those post moves, or passing out of doubleteams, or dream-shakes, or swat-timing…just how’d he pick up all of that so quick? Both were mad-athletic…but one had a brain to be proud of…
4 – Toughness. Shouldnt I have listed this first? Arent we talking about HateSoftBillSelf? Usually a physically bigger specimen has an e-a-s-i-e-r time of playing Selfball. Occasionally, there are exceptions in both directions: physically athletic specimens playing soft (Ellis, EJ at times…), or physically light specimens playing tough (Kevin Young, and we hope Connor Frankamp?). Evidently, 180lb KYo was tougher than his KU teammate (245lb Zach Peters)…as after a practice session altercation, Peters gets a concussion/ultimately quits the team…while KYo got the broken hand. But make no mistake, KYo was nowhere close to Thomas Robinson, and there was something missing in Bill Self’s bigman game in the 2013 season, ending with the loss to Michigan. (Withey+KYo were the starting postmen). Guard toughness? Let’s talk about those who have set the standard: RussRob, Sherron, Chalmers, Rush, Releford, Brady (defensively). Not a single one of those guys was under 190lbs. And, no, they werent all long-athletics.
5 – Physicality & conditioning. I almost didnt list this as a separate category…but honestly, all we’ve talked about year after year under Self is how his requirements have caused Andrea Hudy to craft a comprehensive training regimen to meet Self’s conditioning and defensive stamina requirements. She specifically said so last year. We ‘Hudition’ them for a few very key reasons.
Let’s just summarize our guards with the blanket statement: Frankamp, Graham, Mason, Mikhailiuk, Selden…they ALL got work to do in the various departments above.
And finally, I live near Wichita, grew up in Wichita, went to undergrad in Wichita (before KU professional school)…so nothing would make me happier than seeing some Wichita kid shine at KU, right? So Perry Ellis needs to find his above-rim game & hops & aggression–his early sophomore-MarcusMorris impersonation needs to evolve up to junior-level Marcus, with a little bit of TRob thrown in. And dear Connor Frankamp, who already seems a bright, intelligent little guard with a good a:t ratio, needs mother nature’s (and Hudy’s) maturing process to add some mass and quickness to even give him a chance of competing against his own teammates, in order to win some real mpg…something we all want to see, so we can judge better. (As a corollary to this, how would KU have done vs. Duke with Connor getting all the minutes that Frank Mason got? Would KU have won that game?
Bottom line: I think Self believes he can take athletes and teach them to be efficient, smart basketball players. His payoff is HUGE: if he succeeds, he has crafted the perfect player, that does it all. Then I see him take “developmental experiments” with guys like Withey, Frankamp, Brady, Teahan, etc., and we all can judge the results with hindsight. I hope Frankamp succeeds.
Again, I hope Frankamp succeeds. Wouldnt it be nice to have our own Farokhmanesh or Keiton Page? I’ve seen Frankamp dunk, so he certainly has some level of athleticism. Sherron and Mason were not long-athletics, but both were tough. The only category Mason is lacking is evidenced by his frosh learning curve and poor-but-improving decision making. Some of the issue with both Mason and Frankamp is that they are both 6ft or less. Even with a quick closeout, opposing guards can still get their shot off. Contrast that with 6’4 Brady, 190lbs, who bothered 95% of opposing wing players, and was able to do it without fouling out all the time.
At the risk of sounding like a Kentucky Wildcat fan, let me say: ‘dont get to enamored with recruits’…they either pan out, or they dont. Or they get recruited over, and then transfer. Guys will get replaced. Self just proved that, and has done so ever since he got here. He’s not going to stop recruiting the best guys.
And the talk about Connor in the Stanford game…well Mason was in that game late also (not benched like Tharpe), and I recall Mason missing that corner open 3…but Connor’s clutch shooting was a bright spot for him, even if we lost that game. But that doesnt take away what Mason steadily improved on all season: on ball D, decision making, and even his 3%. Prior to that Stanford game, CF’s 3% was in the 20’s (worst on the team)…and Mason’s wasnt much better. Point is, for KU’s sake, they both need to improve on different aspects of all of the above.
Let me put it yet another way: I got a ‘W’ over Duke thanks to Frank Mason, and I saw why Self pleaded with Mason to come to KU. But he was still a frosh, we saw the learning curve. I like Connor’s a:t ratio, but the rest of his ability remains to be seen, so I am waiting…I recall CF’s first few games, he didnt hit a single 3…unlike that other Conner (Teahan) who seemed to have a charmed 3stroke his frosh season.
Much improvement needed by all these young Jayhawks.
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I’ve been told that there is no greater risk with this kid, than signing a kid from the good ole USA. So majority rules. No greater risk.
Signed,
Enes Kanter
@HighEliteMajor Double bull hockey.
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Your first sentence only makes sense if Self had to choose between SM and a USA kid with the same talent and skill: he didn’t. Besides, even if he did there were 2 scholarships available. Don’t imply that it’s an either/or situation, it just isn’t.
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Enes Kanter took money and played pro: SM didn’t. End of comparison.
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@ParisHawk It’s kind of kidding around, but ok …
How do you know this kid didn’t take money? I forgot. You were following him around Europe. So I stand corrected.
Mykhailiuk said the following: “I have pro experience. In Ukraine I play on a pro team. There were guys 10 years older than me, 12 years,” said Mykhailiuk, who turns 17 on June 10. “I don’t have problems with these (older) guys."
How many kids here “have pro experience” and play on a “pro team”?
Doesn’t mean that he took money, but sure seems like more chance for impropriety that could get the NCAA delaying or denying his eligibility. I’m just saying it may be a bit more risk.
Also, again, the kid is “graduating” after the 11th grade because the Ukraine permits a “test” to skip the 12th grade. I, of course, wouldn’t expect the NCAA to scrutinize that. Not saying it will be a problem, just saying that it seems like a bit more likely that it could be. Risk, that’s all.
I’m not implying it’s an “either/or” situation between this kid and a USA recruit. I know there is no real available option here to sign, of that quality. I have never done that. I just said it’s more risk.
My main argument against this kid was the impact his presence may have on our current roster, i.e., a transfer or two. And then, coupled with the increased possibility, because he is actually from Europe and has never lived here, and that he could struggle for P.T., that he might leave early to grab a paycheck in Europe – it might not be the best move. We could lose a transfer, and then lose him too. That’s my main concern.
I saw someone post that his parents are educators, and Phd’s, or whatever, so they must want him to stay in college here more than a year. Of course, they’re sending their kid half way around the world to a basketball school, not Harvard or Stanford. My guess is Harvard would have taken him. I’m sure Tommy Amaker could have made that happen.
It is almost comical how defensive some folks get on a pure risk analysis. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to accept that signing a kid from overseas brings more risk.
You can’t look at any signing in a vacuum – a “well, we have an open scholarship.” There is always a collateral impact.
I bring up Kanter or Papapetrou and it’s “this kid isn’t anything like that …” Right, we say that because we know.
Here’s what Rustin Dodd said at the KC Star on May 22, after I posted my concerns by the way –
“But one thing to keep in mind: European players always have the option of leaving college and returning to play professionally in Europe. Take the case of Ioannis Papapetrou, a one-time Kansas recruiting target who spent the 2012-13 season at Texas. Papapetrou, a 6-foot-9 forward, averaged 8.3 points and 4.4 rebounds during his freshman season, and he looked like a solid building block for Longhorns coach Rick Barnes. But last summer, Greek pro team Olympiacos — one of the top clubs in Europe — gave Papapetrou an offer he couldn’t refuse, a reported five-year deal worth approximately $2 million. This is one of the inherent risks of signing European teenagers. They will always have more options than their American counterparts.”
Don’t forget, Barnes, as I had previously posted, said one week before he left i August/2013 that Papapetrou would “definitely” be back. Uh, no.
But I’m not completely negative on the signing. I like our guys. We could win with our perimeter without this kid. But it was pointed out that if Selden and Oubre leave, we only would have four perimeter players for next season without SM. Perhaps good reason to take the increased risk.
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/22/5039706/a-deeper-look-at-some-questions.html#storylink=cpy
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D-1 Basketball is big boy basketball. It’s not the end of the world when someone ask to or is asked to transfer. Other than sitting out for one year, in most cases it’s best or all parties concerned. Coach Self had an excellent chance for a title last season. Team chemistry was starting to develop. We had an eraser (Embiid) to clean up defensive lapses and then he got hurt. Season was toast from that point, and the effort to win was made. I applaud our team. Had they been healthy, who knows.
Obviously Coach Self was not pleased, so changes have been made to improve this year’s team. These changes will prove to be for the better. As a fan, I get upset when my team loses, but life goes on. I am sure the other 300+ D-1 Schools would like to win the whole thing year in and year out as well. It is after all competition. In reality 12 players have a realistic chance to earn playing time. From that group, 8 will get significant playing time. The other 4 are there for practice, scrimmages, injuries, and blowouts. Whether a player will transfer or not is irrelevant due to the fact that Coach Self always has a Plan B and a Plan C. We win every year, top ten every year. That’s good enough for me. We have been to the final game twice recently. I don’t believe we will have 20 years between titles again.
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@KansasComet Great post. I especially like the second paragraph. It is good to keep in mind that KU has been to the Finals twice just in the last 6 years and that we are a top 10 team in contention year in and year out. RCJH.
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@KansasComet You said - “We had an eraser (Embiid) to clean up defensive lapses and then he got hurt. Season was toast from that point, and the effort to win was made. I applaud our team. Had they been healthy, who knows.”
I’m curious, without Embiid, you don’t think we should have beaten Stanford?
All was not lost with Embiid out. I’m sure Self didn’t believe that.
After Stanford, most thought Embiid would have returned. Even if he didn’t, we would have played Dayton to go to the Elite 8. And then Florida with a one game chance to get to the Final Four. If we lose to Florida without Embiid, no shame there. But losing to Stanford was flat out embarrassing, as it would have been if we’d have lost to Dayton (with or without Embiid). Both games we should win, no doubt.
You also said “We win every year, top ten every year. That’s good enough for me.” — that’s just where we respectfully differ. But I envy your peace of mind.
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Embiid, a potential number one overall pick got hurt. He was a game changer. I think we could have beat Stanford with him. Who knows what would have happened? It didn’t, and life goes on. It’s a high paced, stressful, and exciting game. Part of the fun is the fact that we could lose. That’s what makes it interesting. I love winning, but nothing is going to change the facts after the final buzzer. My disappointment last about two weeks max.
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I really do not understand why anyone is extremely disappointed with the way KU finished this year. Or how anyone could have thought “Coach Self had an excellent chance for a title last season.” There were too many games they played poorly or inconsistently. A game or two against mediocre teams they easily could have lost–i.e. UTEP and at Texas Tech. Also, especially the second half of the Oklahoma State game at AFH. These should have sent up red flags to all those who expected a great postseason run.
At the beginning of the NCAA tournament, KU already had 9 losses. Only two champions had lost that many since KU’s 11 in 1988. They didn’t put together 6 straight games all year that were impressive. The tournament wasn’t the time they were going to do that either against solid or great teams–especially with poor guard play and Embiid sitting out.
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From my perspective, I was disappointed in Bill’s lack of effort in the Stanford game. Possibilities: 1) He was tired and dozed off. 2) He knew the season was over. I say that because he made NO changes offensively or defensively until it was way too late. The commentators ALL made suggestions on how to free-up Wiggins, for example. Bill waited to press until it was way too late. We all have “off” days. However, when you’re only on the bench 30-some days out of 365 and making 3+ mil, we fans have a right to expect your best effort every time.
Don’t get me wrong, I am a big supporter of Bill. I just think in 10+ years KU Basketball has missed out on some opportunities to be even better.
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@Wigs2 “I really do not understand why anyone is extremely disappointed with the way KU finished this year.”
Again, this is puzzling. We lost to a #10 seed. We should have won that game going away.
I understand that we didn’t have the look of a title team. Our defense was horrendous. And we didn’t have an offensive approach to make up for it. You pointed out that we hadn’t had 6 impressive games in a row all season. However, you don’t need 6 “impressive” games. You need 6 wins. You just need to survive. We started conference play 7-0. I’d say the stretch itself was impressive.
But goodness – not understanding why anyone was “extremely disappointed with the way KU finished this year”?
I’d be interested to hear who lives on that planet.
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@HighEliteMajor This year ended for me like most football seasons. " Thank goodness it’s finally over ". ( 10 losses, really?? )
With the exception of 3 or 4 games, we looked lackluster and very Un-KU like all season long.
Having said that - heck yeah, I was extremely disappointed with the way we finished this year. I ain’t on that planet…
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You keep bringing up Papapetru as comparison and you (and Rustin Dodd) have it wrong as you are comparing apples to oranges or in other words European Leagues and NBA prospects.
Papapetru WAS NOT a NBA prospect and he came to the States for a chance to improve his game for a future in the European Leagues, not the NBA, and the first chance that he had he bolted for the place that was his final destination any way. BTW, his contract was for FIVE years at about $400K per year; this is what undrafted players make in the NBA to be part of the practice squad; however, this is big money in Europe and as such it comes with a long contract.
Svi, on the other hand, is being referred as the best European prospect since Ricky Rubio and his goal is the NBA and NOT the European Leagues. If he goes back to Europe for the money, he will be tied up on a long term contract that would delay his goal of making it ti the NBA. Look what happened to Ricky Rubio, he signed a long term contract that ended up delaying his entry to the NBA and costing him a lot of money.
If after one year Svi is till and NBA prospect, for the reason listed above, there is no way he goes back to Europe. If he goes back to Europe is because he did not show enough to stay as NBA prospect and hence its not a big loss.
Also, unlike the NBA, the Euro Leagues have no minimum pay and players can play for a professional team without being paid. The NCAA actually does not have a problem if players that come from the European Leagues received compensation for meals, lodging and incidental as long as it does not exceed a certain amount; in Kanter’s situation, he received considerably more that the amount the NCAA allows and thus he was not allowed to play for UK. BTW, if you talk to people that follow Euro BBall, this was a known fact and the squid just tried to pull a fast one and for once he got bitch slapped by the NCAA.
In summary, if he is a stud or shows potential he will see playing time, will stay two years and then bolt for the NBA. If he is a bust or show Euro League and not NBA potential, he leaves after one year and there is no downside since there are scholarships available anyway. If I were a betting m,an I would pick the first case.
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Our guards have been whipped the last two years. We haven’t had good ball handlers or passers. Last year, any token pressure, and we flat melted. I don’t think Frank is our answer, anymore than Naadir was our answer. Bill keeps turning over the keys to the Caddy to valets who’ve never driven before… and they keep wrecking the car. Our answer lies between Graham and CF. I’ve seen the “CF can’t play Div1 ball” posts, and I don’t agree with them. I saw a determined man play two games in the tournament, and literally took the games over. If the litmus test is playing defense, how did Naadir ever see a minute on the court? I think Graham makes an impact with his passing, and ball handling skills. This kid isn’t going to be turned over like Naadir and Frank were last year. I think he’ll make teams pay for trying to pressure us.
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@HighEliteMajor So we lost to a #10 seed. Who cares? I don’t understand why you are so fixated on that. Everyone on this board was disappointed that they lost to Stanford. KU could very easily have been seeded at least a couple notches lower. I am only saying they didn’t play well enough during the course of the season to expect much better.
You’re right that they started with an impressive 7-0 run (four at AFH and one at TCU) in the conference. The last 13 games before the NCAA tourney, they went 8-5. That was not impressive at all. And it certainly wouldn’t cause most to expect them to make a decent tournament run.
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@HighEliteMajor sucks anytime we lose! But Stanford was a tough matchup for us. If Tarik could have 6 fouls, we win. If we had the Embiid that I see now, we win a few more! He looks so much stronger, amazing me!
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@KUSTEVE jethro, did you see CF play defense?
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@JayHawkFanToo It is amazing to me how you can see into the future. Papapetrou was no different than a guy like Tyshawn Taylor. He would have to work to get to the NBA.
You seem to think that because their situations are apparently different, there is no way he’ll bolt after one year or before. You seem to discount that he might be homesick in a new culture. And you seem to discount the possibility that if he shows that he is a real player, that a Euro league team might offer him a nice deal. Heck, if he is so much better than Papapetrou, then he’d like command more money. Say, 3 years, 3 million? Or stay in college.
Again, I haven’t said it will happen. You just keep saying it won’t.
You point to Rubio as if it supports your argument, but Rubio did sign a deal.
And I do appreciate that you seem to be able to tell us without doubt that this kid never took any benefits beyond those permitted by the NCAA.
I just find that sort of apparent certainty comical, particularly when you give no credence to the risks. I understand and appreciate your argument, but it loses credibility when you present it as a certainty.
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@Wigs2 No, actually, you said “I really do not understand why anyone is extremely disappointed with the way KU finished this year.”
Now you say, “So, we lost to a #10 seed. Who cares?” Well, seeding is a reflection of your performance during the season, and most times, the quality of team. And watching Stanford, they weren’t that good. Are we going to debate that? Are we going to debate that KU should have beaten Stanford with or without Embiid by 10 points? I’m sure we will.
It’s a way to rationalize the significant failure of our coaching staff in having this group ready to play in the NCAA. You cite the end of the season – that was a collapse too.
Your argument is that the way we played this season, apparently with Embiid, “wouldn’t cause most to expect” a decent tourney run.
Well, I don’t know, if you have the #1 and #2 (or #3) picks on your roster, you might. Maybe.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I thought CF played average defense. Not as good as Mason (although I think Mason’s defensive reputation comes largely from one play, the block/strip of Nash at the end of the Okie St. game), but he showed good instincts & effort; he was almost always in the right place. I always watched both Mason & CF on defense, particularly when they subbed in for Tharpe. You could always immediately see the difference. Even when they got beat, it wasn’t as maddening because they didn’t have, as HEM would say, the “whipped puppy” look that Tharpe had.
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@HighEliteMajor HEM, I 'm not going to deny that we could have or should have beaten Stanford. I just don’t get your point to keep harping on it for the past 9 weeks. It’s over. I expected the Hawks to beat Stanford but I certainly wasn’t surprised that they lost.
They were lucky to win at Texas Tech. Had to hold on against Okie State, when they almost blew a 17-point halftime lead.
Maybe you’re right that Self should be recruiting lower-ranked players who may (or may not) develop well enough to get them to another FF. Maybe the coaching staff should be fired for leading KU to only 2 FF championship games in the past 7 years. Maybe Zenger should be looking for a coach that wouldn’t produce such lofty expectations. Then you wouldn’t be so distraught at the end-of-the-season losses. I’ve been through a number of years like that. Seasons when KU had outstanding players but didn’t get into the NCAA tournament. I don’t really care to go back to those years.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I keep hearing that meme and it makes me wonder if there isn’t something else behind it. It seems the only player that anyone is remotely worried about their defense is CF, and the entire fan base seems to be completely obsessed about it.
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@HighEliteMajor I’ll grant there are non-zero chances that he will not be eligible next year OR there will be an extra transfer OR he will go back to Europe, but some of those risks cancel each other out. If he gets in a McLemore situation then why would anybody transfer? If he leaves after a year then transferring becomes less of a necessity.
How can you compare with Rubio? He never came to college. You have one example of a European who left after a year.
You have one example of a European who lost his eligibility.
I have one example of an American who chose Europe over college: Brandon Jennings. Should we be worried that our American recruits won’t come to KU?
You are now saying “a bit more risk”. Fine: a bit.
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Again, if you are going to quote me at least do it correctly. Nothing I post is a certainty because none of us can predict the future; however, we can make educated guesses as to what could/might happen based on known facts and precedent.
Svi has already played for professional teams and has been exposed to big time basketball, and has had a a taste of American basketball as well, and knows what it takes to be away from home, By all accounts he comes from an well do do, accomplished family and he seems to have the same drive. So no, I don’t believe he will suddenly miss the homeland and run home. Again, I am not saying it will not happen, I am simply saying that based on his background and experiences it is unlikely.
Yes, Rubuio, the best prospect in Europe signed a contract but it was for SIX years with a $8.1 million buyout. Even the best prospect in Europe could not get a short term contract without a buyout. This is what I am talking about and you seem bound and determined to ignore. The Rubio contract was a wake up call to all European players with NBA aspirations. Do you really believe that if Svi is that good he will want to get stuck in a similar contract with huge buyout that would greatly delay his entry to the NBA, where the real money is? I don’t think so. Could it happen? Sure it could happen, but again, if he is as good as advertised, the odds are he will not. If he does not live up to the hype and does have the skill to be a NBA prospect, then he might well go back to Europe…as I previously indicated.
I have family and friends in Europe that follow basketball, and of course soccer, closely and the Kanter situation was well known over there, as it was the family that went looking (and getting) the money and there were plenty of reports/allegations on the subject and people that regularly follow basketball in Europe already knew this; the only surprising part is that Calipari thought he could get it pas the NCAA. On the other hand, there is no indication whatsoever, NONE, that Svi (or family) took any undue money. Again, I am not stating this as a fact that they did not, nobody really can, but there is no evidence that I could find that he did either.
I do find it comical that you, of all people, interpret my “opinions” as certainty so you can justify your own opinion. I certainly never claimed them to be facts, simply informed opinions and/or conjectures which is all we can offer anyway…after all this is what forums like this are for…right?
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@JayHawkFanToo – I think Mykhailiuk wants to play in the NBA. He has most likely already has had contracts offers with the terms you talk of. I do believe that’s why he is here. Mykhailiuk doesn’t want to be stuck in a European contract delaying his aspirations to play in the NBA. I think the bigger question is Mykhailiuk choosing to play college ball at KU a game changer? Is this the beginning of top young European players coming to the states.
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@KUSTEVE jethro, didn’t get the meme thing??? I think WE ALL are worried about everyone’s defense! We talked frequently about that this year!!!
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@truehawk93-Not the new kid to RS, Greene to RS. Just a thought.
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@globaljaybird If I were offered 100 to 1 odds regarding Greene’s taking a red shirt, I would not wager more than 50 cents. The only way I could envision that happening would be a serious pre-season injury. Things might change dramatically in the next five months, esp. with that one open scholarship dangling; but at this juncture, the only perimeter player whom I see as a possible red shirt is CF. Actually, I would like to see Conner in the program for five years. His game is dynamite, but body still demands tweaks.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I wasn’t picking on you - I was picking on the idea that CF is a huge liability in any part of his game… even defense. The kid is smart as a whip, and he simply has the ability to change a game. I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts he has been out on that court everyday working on his deficiencies. I know, I know he’s short. He’s white. He would get creamed matching up against the Harrison twins…but I saw something in that kid in those tournament games I haven’t seen since Travis graduated - a gritty, tough as nails competitor that relished in the spotlight. I mean, we were getting our ass stomped by Stanford, and this freshman came off the bench, and almost pulled the game out for us. He was nothing short of amazing. Go back and watch his sequence near the end of the Stanford game. It’s really a work of art.
