MITCHELL BALLOCK - GLAD THAT NORM CAN RECRUIT!
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@Crimsonorblue22 yeah - i’m still here. A combination of being busy and not really seeing too much KU stuff that I am excited enough about to comment on lately.
I’m ready for some ACTION. Even football. I have been watching the Royals, but man they stunk the place up last night!
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Haven’t seen him much but as he himself mentions “fitting the system”, does he really fit Self ball? Or is it going to be another round hole /square peg situation (ala AWIII, Frankamp, even Greene)? Hope he has a more rounded game instead of just being a 3point specialist
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@FarSideHawk he can drive, left and right! Still early.
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Heard he has great fundamentals and very high basketball IQ. Hard to keep guys like that off the court. But I’d like someone else who knows his game better to comment on my statement because I’d like to know if it is true, too.
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Seems like the type of prospect every coach loves. He is still a couple of year away though…
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I would be delighted if he turns out to be the second coming of Ron Baker, a player KU missed and turned out to be pretty darn good.
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After watching some tape on the guy, I’d say there is alot to like about the kid. He has a great wingspan for his height, and may grow some more. Pretty solid handles at this stage of his development. He seems to at least care about playing defense & seems to recover well and cloe-out. The shot is already money, and anytime your voted best shooter at a Curry Camp you gotta be inspired. Multi-year player in college at least two years and most likely 3-4 year player. If we can corrall a kid this talented whose been a life long fan of KU, then you have to assume he’d play that much harder for us. There’s a ton of time before he’s a graduating senior… so hopefully we don’t get complacent chasing a Moby Dick type talent, and alienate Ballock in the process.
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Oh thank goodness I can comment about this kid! I can’t say much but when my boy was 14, he played against Mitchell. He was only ten at the time and tearing everyone up. Dropped 26 and didn’t break a sweat.
Almost exact same player and situation as Reid. Tyrell was 12 and played against my oldest son when he was 15 in summer ball. He did very similar things that Mitchell did but Ried was a lot more quiet and a better shooter at that point. Mitchell was more aggressive and liked to throw his body around.
Of course, everything has changed a lot since then and impossible to tell how he will develope or how his talents translate. But still a cool story!
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I like the idea of having a Kansas guy as a significant part of the team. Noob question: Can he accept the offer / commit any time he feels like it?
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I just watched tape of Ballock. I’m mixed at this point. I’m a little skeptical and hope to be totally wrong about this kid, but right now I’m leaning toward him being a CF 2.0 with a bit more size and a bit more athleticism.
The claim is he played well at the Jayhawk Invitational. I think the Stephen Curry endorsement and personal invite is really impressive. Curry is no slouch when it comes to talent. Curry has that mid-major sick sense, that could be revealing about a recruit. I’m going to error on the side of caution and keep my ears and eyes open with Ballock. I want to learn more about his development.
Most of you already have him signed. Maybe he’s looking hard at CF’s experience at KU? I’m afraid this is going to bite KU on the backside. We got Reed, BStar, Ellis, Teahan and CF (all Kansas products). I’m not too sure about Ballock. His tape doesn’t woo me too much. I think he’s skilled, talented, and athletic. BUT…let’s see how he fairs against some stiff D1 competition. Right now, I’d say he’s a big mid-major prospect and the type that could make KU and Self regret not recruiting him more intentionally. He’s a freakin’ Farokmanesh nightmare, Curry sensation, mid-major delight that with time could become a D1 One-Man destroyer. Or, simply, a mid-major player that thrives on the mid-major stage. I just thought if he continues at this level, and plays against some of the best D1 players, I’m just not sure how he’ll fair at KU.
Also, if he’s all KU…blah, blah, blah…why doesn’t he commit already? I guess he’s going to do exactly what Ingram did with his recruiting in Carolina. Which, I don’t half way blame him. I guess it’s ok. But, this kid is no Brandon Ingram. If he doesn’t commit, Self needs to move on if he can find better talent. This kid is ranked in the 20s? If KU gets him, great, if not, oh well, there’s a lot of other talent to pick from in the pool.
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Four year players rarely wow you as sophomores in HS. A kid ranked in the top 30 is someone you want to be in your system. He’s a long term player. OADs in positons of need is ok. Jr.s and Sr.s are what make the team. He will be an absolute stud buy his Jr. year.
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I see him as a glue guy. A guy with very high basketball IQ. A guy that helps make everyone else on the team better. And in playing this brand of basketball, he’ll also get his share of points. That’s called “unselfish.”
No… he’s not a SportsCenter highlight film kind of player. But he will be surrounded with plenty of those. Someone has to throw the pass, or set the heavy screen. Ballock is that guy. And when left open, the ball will come back to him for his shot. We always have room for a guy like that.
We’ve had so much talent role through Lawrence the last years, and we just don’t seem to quite maximize all that talent. Could it be that what we’ve really missed is the right facilitators? The guys with big basketball IQs can look at the court and see the mismatches and directly work on making them happen. That’s one big asset they provide.
It’s tough to win with McDs AAs all the way around if none of them can play team ball to the point of being unselfish and developing points for others by working at making it happen. Not many of those guys around, but I have a feeling Ballock will do that.
You don’t see a lot of this in college basketball anymore. Guys just clear out for someone and watch them go one-on-one. I’d love to have a guy that could pinpoint teams weaknesses and go right on the attack of taking advantage of those areas. That’s real NBA stuff there. It’s why you’ll always see room for a John Stockton. A little guy without the big SportsCenter dunks who can use his mind and shred opposition.
BTW: Conner helped us out in March and almost saved our butts after sitting all year on the bench. What if he would have played 30 mpg all year? We’ll never know what Conner could have done because he didn’t get the time on the court to develop. He was a volume scorer in HS, but he had a good enough basketball mind to start becoming the glue guy in March, and also hit some key shots.
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@dylans I hope you’re right. I really hope he becomes a stud. I hope he’s the next Kansas sensation. It’s a bit of an unfair comparison, but let’s look at Perry Ellis’ resume. They are two different types of players, but let’s forget about their positions and simply track progress.
This kid is already being touted all the bball adjectives we like to assign to a bball phenom. We all did the same thing with Connor Frankamp. Frankamp came out with a bit more hype than this kid. I remember Fraschilla sung CF’s praises and everyone thought he would be the next KU phenom, but we all know where CF is right now and his development or ability is yet to be seen at WSU. He showed flashes of what could’ve been, but then when the going got tough, he bailed from KU…fine…no harm no foul.
Now, let’s look at this kid compared to Ellis. He’s no Perry Ellis. But Ellis dominated the state of Kansas in bball. Ellis is now a 4 yr player, which is good. Now, people are using his injury as an excuse that he was on Buddy Hield’s heels for B12 POY. Really? Ellis was chasing Buddy Hield out of OU for B12 POY? Now, this is Ellis at the B12 level. He’s done well, and will hopefully have his best year as a senior.
Now, you’re already giving this kid a pass as a sophomore in high school. I suppose when he enters college and is adjusting to D1 play, you’ll be the first to defend his play? We all want these players to stay 4 yrs, and rightfully so. But, my point is, unless they come in from day one and dominate right out of high school and continue in college, they are going to struggle. Ellis has made a pretty run, but he’s a different player with a different skill set. I frankly don’t think the Kansas bball talent pool do justice to these elite players. This is why we complain and bemoan the coastal kids, that go to the Dooks, UNCs, MSUs, St Johns, etc. We’ve had a pretty good recruiting year with Bragg and Diallo. Now, let’s see if the team’s experience, talent, and recruiting can bring a NC against some elite players. Remember, we may have a top team, but other teams have equal or greater as well.
Now, bring Ballock into the picture. You’re saying he can hang with some of these top recruits. He can play every bit as good, when he leaves high school? Ok…when he leaves high school? High school and D1 college are two very very different levels of play. So, I hope you’re right. I hope he makes the adjustment from high school to D1. I hope he’s with KU. I hope he is the stud that you say he can, could, and will become. KU will need him if they plan to win another NC in the next 2-3 years. We’ve been saying this now for the last 2-3 years. It’s time these studs step up to their hype and play at A big level. This is how you win NCs. I hate Dook, but ask Coach K how you win a NC in the NCAA? ELITE PLAYERS: Jones, Winslow, Okafor, and great supporting experienced returning group of guys…and I hate Dook BTW. But love 'em or hate 'em…they won a NC.
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@drgnslayr Everyone said that about BStar too, “glue guy.” I think that term is overrated and overused. It’s a polite way to say, he was a player we thought would be an impact player, but something happened. He played against equal or better talent. BStar never impressed me much, except he was great for Self’s system. He was never the player I think many thought he would be either. But he was a Kansas product that many saw the same way. Also, Teahan was a Kansas product that was great for the system “glue guy,” but just didn’t quite turn out quite the way many wanted.
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@drgnslayr I think you might have a fair point with IQs. I also like the potential for Ballock to be a Stockton type player. Remember, BStar was a Stockton type player too. He was on the bench in 2008 with the NC win. Also, what did we do when he was actually playing? That glue didn’t quite work when we needed it to work on the court.
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I don’t know anyone that thought BStar was going to be some kind of 5-star player. Same with Teahan. I think they both ended up on scholarship because Self liked them more than anything else. Didn’t they both start as walk-ons?
I think both of those guys overachieved when you look at what they had to offer in D1. Neither had monster verticals or high speed gears. They just came to try to contribute what they could. I look at Ballock the same way. I don’t think it would take too much more skill with that kind of attitude and IQ to make a very solid contribution. That is the difference between Stockton and all of these guys. He had a notch up on talent. And he used that to become a star in the league. What we are hoping from Ballock is that he has that kind of talent… enough talent to combine with brains and get stuff done out there.
We’ll just have to wait and see. I’m not saying he is going to be the next John Stockton. He’ll have to prove himself like everyone else, including the uber athletes we recruit.
I’d just say… just because a guy isn’t a major uber athlete, don’t count him out as a possible great Jayhawk. Niang is just a walking piece of slug out there and look what he offers ISU. His entire game is played below the rim.
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@drgnslayr I totally hear you. Yeah, look at the slug of a player Niang. Look at ISU. They have a few B12 tourney championships to show for Niang’s time at ISU.
I’m tired of the talk. We’ve under achieved and haven’t delivered a NC. I will die if we bring home a NC in 20 years…really? Billy Donovan brought two consecutive NC titles to Florida, BACK TO FREAKIN’ BACK. It can be done. How many times has Coach K won a NC in 5 years? Do you feel my pain and point? Bill Self has had the talent, but he’s gotten caught with his pants down too with losing players to the draft. We can go back and pinpoint about 2-3 NCs KU should’ve won. But something always happened. We got our azz kicked by some team with some uberly talented sick player/s. What’s nuts, KU has had uber talent and sick players too. But we just weren’t uberly talented enough to bring home 1-2 NCs. What’s even more sick, we’ve gotten beaten by teams without uber talent…LOL…This when we’ve had uber talent…It’s freakin’ crazy. Maybe this is the year. Let’s see…we won in 1988, 2008…we are due in 2018? Maybe if we stay true to history, Self might catch lightening in a bottle for another 10 yr NC. I guess every 10 yrs and seeing most of them is better than none at all.
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@truehawk93 wow. Too much red bull. I said he will be a four year player and an aboslute stud by his Jr. year (in college). I didn’t say he’d be an all america honoree. Dude, calm down you’ll live longer. It’s ok to fill out the roster with top 50 players to develop and learn the system. It eases the transition from year to year if someone knows the KU way. JoJo wouldn’t have gotten ripped at late night if a Sr. had told him how to have fun without goofing off. I’d like to see 2-3 top 20-50 players every year in addition to 1-2 top 10 talents each year.
Ballock isn’t a program saver. He could be a great glue guy an absolute stud in how he helps the team. I don’t see him as a physical specimen. I see him as a potientally great COLLEGE basketball player. All time great? No. Twelve points a night great? Yes.
Maybe you didn’t understand that my first post was a newspaper article. Not my beliefs. Your reply puts many words in my mouth that have never been spoken or thought. Please refrain from projecting yourself onto me. I’m already pissed as some a-hole shot and killed my 10 pound, 1 week shy of 13 years old, 3 legged, Minature Pincher. Don’t make me uncork on off comments in a place of sancturary.
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@dylans Don’t drink Red Bull. The clarification of being a Jr “in college” is very different than in high school. Didn’t think you were saying AA in college either. Dude…I’m one of the most calm people you’ll ever know. A computer screen doesn’t do typing any justice.
I’m not sure about your rant on JoJo either. Bottom line, we don’t have Ballock and at this point, he’s playing his recruiting fairly well as a young recruit. I see him as a Reed type of player at best. Let’s just hope KU can land him in the front yard.
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@dylans Sorry about your dog.
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@drgnslayr he had plenty of chances! His D was worse then BG’s. Couldn’t penetrate, walk the ball up unopposed, no rebounding. I’m anxious to see how Marsha does w/him. Been wondering about his discipline from his DUI. Looked like best friends during the banquet.
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@truehawk93 Reed was a stud.
You just set the bar higher than I do I guess. Wiggins was special; stud doesn’t do him justice.
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@dylans that’s awful! I love dogs, and what happened is awful. Sorry!!!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I’m missing him. A good dog is impossible not to give your heart to.
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@dylans I do know!!
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@truehawk93 Perry was red hot before his injury!!! I think he would have beat out buddy. Across the board his stats were good! Perry also played on the conference champs team.
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I know you’re a big fan…I couldn’t resist.
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Oh no (puke)
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Now I feel ill.
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@Crimsonorblue22 LOLOLOLOLOL…
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@truehawk93 his highest ranked recruit, gift wrapped and comes w/bottle to celebrate!
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@dylans You noticed my moniker is of a chocolate lab?
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@truehawk93 Beautiful dog.
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Ballock is a must sign. We complain that top talent isn’t available every year for KU to choose from in the KU area. Well this is one of the rare moments. He’s going to be somewhere in the 25-50 range by the time he’s a senior and that’s perfectly okay. He does a lot of things already that Self would like to have on his team. Have to lock down the local talent when its worthy and this is one of those times.
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“Do you feel my pain and point?”
I feel the pain in your post… and all of us in here are feeling the pain you are talking about! It’s okay (and normal) to have a venting moment in here. I do it all the time. It just proves your human like the rest of us.
Our early exits in March add stress to all our lives. I can see basketballs etched on my gravestone and probably most of the people in here might have the same possibility. Or a quote from Naismith.
We are overdue for a March run. And hopefully more than just a Final Four finish.
BStar and Teahan represented a period when we weren’t able to stack as much talent. Those guys stepped in admirably to fill roles that should have been given 5-star recruits. Ballock won’t be in that same position. He’ll have to come in and battle deeper talent to earn minutes (IMO). If he can do that, great!
And in filling a roster, I don’t think it is a bad idea to have a local Kansas boy with a big Jayhawk heart on the team to help all the rent-a-studs know what that mascot is all about. To explain how he grew up on a tractor mowing the flatlands of Kansas, while listening to Jayhawk sports on his radio. We all want to get closer to our players… a guy like Ballock can help our players get closer to us!
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Morningstar, Reed, and Teahan were all good KU players.
Did we win a NC with them? Well nope. But we also didn’t win a NC with Wiggins, Oubre, Henry, Bmac, Selby, Wright, Alexander, JoJo, and the list goes on and on.
The point is that NCAA tourney is simply a chaotic crap shoot that needs luck no matter who you have on the team. There is no special formula to win it all.
At the end of the day, we want talent and we want to win. Morningstar, Reed, and Teahan were crucial when their number was called and Mitchell could be the same. Is he a “must get”, I’m not sure. But we do need guys like him just like we need the Bmacs. Let him sign with KU (hopefully) and let his development speak for itself rather than his vertical.
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I have several issues with your comments.
First, while Teahan lived in Leawood, he attended school at Rockhurst HS in Missouri and he was the POY for the State of Missouri and he was consider a recruit coming form that state and not Kansas. Also, even as POY of the State of Missouri, Teahan was not highly recruited and WAS NOT given a scholarship at KU; he was a walk-on and maybe he got a scholarship on his last year or two but a walk-on IS NOT the player you expect to lead you anywhere, and you hope is that he turns out to be a good role player, which he did…in spades. Same thing with Morningstar, he came to KU mostly as a “legacy” and a walk-on, since he had been in HS as long as you can possible stay and he was not highly regarded or recruited and he ended up doing a very good job at KU as the proverbial “glue” guy; he is one of the better passers KU has had, and no one could get the ball to the bigs like he could.
You really think KU has underachieved? If your criteria for not underachieving is a NC then 350 teams underachieve every year. You seem to forget that KU has been to the finals twice and has one NC in addition to making it to the dance (and advancing) every year and holds the current longest streak in Division I. 11 Conference titles in a row are an achievement that most basketball savvy people consider monumental, particularly while playing in top ranked conference. KU also has the best winning record of any school in the lats 10 years. If all of this is considered underachieving…then I want to underachieve some more.
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So sorry to hear about your dog. I have always considered my dogs a part of the family and I lost two in the last few years, one developed an inoperable liver tumor and the 3-legged Chihuahua passed away from old age; she was 22 years old. After 5 years, I am finally thinking about getting another one.
Again sorry for your loss.
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I’m with @JayHawkFanToo in sharing condolences for your best friend loss. I can’t believe how cruel some people can be towards their own and others pets. With most dogs, their entire day is based around sharing some love with their owners and others.
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@JayHawkFanToo preach it brother! One of the biggest pitfalls people make in life is having the perception that someone else’s success takes away from our own.
As KU fans, we should by all means strive and expect excellence. That is why we are so heartbroken when we lose. But the tired old story of UK out recruiting us or Duke winning a NC shouldn’t take away what we have accomplished. I have said it before and I’ll say it again. We are too good to compare everything we do to someone else. That is something KSU are professionals at and reeks of little brother syndrome.
I would trade our Big 12 streak for a couple titles in a heartbeat. But that doesn’t mean losing in the tourney makes our success obsolete.
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Okay… I’m jacked up on MITCHELL BALLOCK after seeing a more updated highlight film. I’m off of taking the defense for him and going on the offense.
The discussion seems to be about if he’s good enough to help Kansas to the promised land. The thought is he is JUST a glue guy and he can’t compete with the top elite athletes with 42" or higher vertical leaps or crazy knuckle-dragging wingspans going 8" beyond the player’s height.
I was a Wiggins man, all the way. I was head wig of wiggymania when he was in Lawrence. The guy is phenomenal and he is making a name for himself in the league.
But would I rather have another Andrew Wiggins or would I prefer a Mitchell Ballock? I told you all, I’m going on the offense now.
While Ballock’s highlight film looks impressive, there isn’t a HS highlight reel more impressive than Wiggins. It is showered with his patented spin move where he leaves guys smoked in their own shoes. And then throw in a few well-practiced monster slams in a perfect pose. How in the heck could a Mitchell Ballock ever compete against an Andrew Wiggins?
Fortunately for Mitchell, college basketball isn’t just a game of one-on-one.
In the more recent clip I saw on Mitchell, he has a lot more tools in his toolbox than what Andrew had when arriving in Lawrence. Andrew only brought one, highly-polished, move with him to Lawrence. Only one. And you all know what that was. It was his pivoting spin move on his drive. That worked for him, what… maybe 10 times in his entire single season in Lawrence?
Wiggins put up 17.1 ppg in his freshman year. Those are big numbers. But at what cost to the team? He shot a mere 44.8% from the field. Hardly blazing the nets and not enough to carry Kansas past the first couple of games in March. He only averaged 1.5 apg. For a guy that we lived through on offense, that number is very low for anyone considered a Jayhawk. Add to that 5.9 rpg and 34 blocks and 41 steals. Those numbers sound pretty impressive, but lets not forget that Andrew averaged 32.8 mpg and was the guy our offense ran through. Self wanted him to touch the ball on every single possession, and (preferably), to take the shot and score off of every possession.
Even if Mitchell has say 8" less on his vertical, not quite the speed… couldn’t he put up at least those kind of numbers if our offense ran through him and he was averaging 32.8 mpg? When you look at it that way, Wiggins numbers are not so spectacular.
My bet would be that Mitchell would win many of the numbers on the stat line over Andrew. Right off the bat, he would surely double or triple Andrew’s assist numbers. That claim shouldn’t even be challenged. Andrew shot 34.1% from 3sville. It wouldn’t take much for Mitchell to beat that number… and in doing so, it would help hike up his overall points total. I seriously doubt Mitchell would shoot the 227 FTs Andrew shot his freshman year. But it wouldn’t surprise me if he shot a better FT%… more than 77.5%. That would help him gain ground on the line. Mitchell has more moves than just the spin move. He can easily score off the dribble, has a decent crossover, and also has a spin move. He also has higher basketball IQ (a stat that somehow needs to be computed and scored on every player). He will have less the chance to take it to the rack on a drive, forcing contact and going to the FT line. But he will be more likely to take his man and look for his spot on the floor to pull up. He’s also a guy who knows how to use a shot fake to draw shooting fouls or create scoring space. He is a guy that knows how to use his body to create scoring space… in knowing this, he (like Niang) needs less vertical leaping ability to get his shot off. Granted, his leaping might not match Andrew’s and may hurt him in the rebound department. First though… he’s most likely a 2 instead of a 3, so counted less for rebounds. Second, because of his high basketball IQ he is more likely to fight for good rebounding position… the real method for rebounding over trying to jump over everyone for a rebound. Last thing… with his high basketball IQ he should be able to match Andrew’s steal stats.
So, in my projection… he will offer Kansas everything and more what Andrew did. He might even throw in more glue guy attributes that aren’t shown on stat sheets.
My point isn’t to say Mitchell will help Kansas more than Andrew did. My point was that it is possible he could help Kansas more than Andrew did, and do it with a lot less athleticism!
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@drgnslayr jmo, you are crazy!
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Dang… it took me a while to find this direct quote, but I did finally succeed. It’s one of my favorite all-time quotes:
“Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… The ones who see things differently — they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… They push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.” - Steve Jobs
Always makes me feel better about being crazy… something I openly admit to! Not sure about the genius part… I’ll leave that for others to decide.
I put the word “genius” up there on the shelf with Calipari’s word “perfection”… something unobtainable by anyone whose name isn’t Jesus Christ!
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@JayHawkFanToo I never said KU under achieved. I’m excited about the conference champions, Sweet 16s, Elite 8s, and F4, and even a championship game. If you want to compare KU to the other failing teams that missed, then it simply means KU is always a bridesmaid and never a bride kinda idea.
Don’t lower the standard and settle for what your post is so eloquently trying to convey. You’re right for the most part, but if you keep settling, then we’ll always be on a post like this relishing all the under achievements.
Let’s keep our expectations high, enjoy the under achievements you clearly seem to enjoy, but let’s focus on a NC from time to time too.
I’m sure all KU alum/alumna/fans…whomever want a NC. Let’s not settle for mediocrity. We are KU and we are bball history.
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@JhawkAlum Good point, let’s not become a little brother while we enjoy under achieving when compared to Dook, UK, or any other program. You do hear yourself settling for Dook and UK winning NC while we enjoy watching?
I’ll keep my expectations high and compare KU to only the achievements of KU, not other programs. But I refuse to become lil’ bro to any other program.
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Did I misunderstand what you posted?
"I’m tired of the talk. We’ve under achieved and haven’t delivered a NC."
You did not highlight or quoted those sentences so it does not seem like you were quoting someone else.
Now, you posted:
"I’m sure all KU alum/alumna/fans…whomever want a NC. Let’s not settle for mediocrity."
Again, I disagree with you. Not winning the NC DOES NOT mean we are settling for mediocrity. Settling for mediocrity is finishing in the bottom half of the conference and being satisfied. Winning the Conference title year, after year, after year and making the NCAA every year as a high seed does not come close to settling for mediocrity. We obviously have different concepts of success…and mediocrity… so we need to do the usual, agree to disagree.
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I don’t think you guys disagree. I just think you guys aren’t conveying your messages to each other well enough.
I don’t think any of us in here feel like Kansas has been mediocre, especially over the past years after 2008. I think @truehawk93 wants to convey that since we haven’t won a NC since 2008 in that one area our performance has not lived up to what our desires are. We are all Jayhawks and that doesn’t mean we expect a NC every year. But with the recent talent pool we’ve had and success in other areas (like our conference streak), it would be great if we could project that better in March. In that sense, we have had some mediocre years, including this past year. Our March performance this year was downright mediocre!
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Poor thing
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@drgnslayr Agree 100%. There is another “streak” little mentioned: every player recruited to Kansas by Bill Self who has stayed the full 4 years has been to a National Championship game.
KU has been mediocre the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament the last two years. That’s it.
