Thunder steals the Thunder
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“That having more quality ball in the area helps everyone. If fans catch quality ball wherever, they are more likely to pursue other venues, too.”
Some how I just don’t remember misery being “quality ball” except maybe 20-25 years ago when we were transitioning from Brown to Williams & Norm got lucky with a Stipo, Peeler, or a Sunvold. misery has never ever seemed like more than a one horse show to me.
I do remember my friend’s son was recruited by Norm & he told me Stewart “chauffeured” them around Columbia & campus in a rusty & scroungy old Caprice that was so dirty it made him think there had been hay bales hauled in the back seat ! LOL! Then when Norm lost schollies for a violation he still wanted Rick to walk on. His Dad was like WTF? Are you serious? Sorry slayr, only thing I can recall being quality from misery right now are some of my relatives & a few buckets board rats. I might also respectfully include “Oakville” in the positive category too. Think he was from in or around ST Louis. As always, JMO
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Just for conversation sake and to keep the thread going. What about the Charlotte Bobcats. The Blue Devils and Tar Heels don’t seem to be hurt by their inception, or am I wrong? Maybe it has hurt NCstate and Wake Forest?
Though NC is one of the fastest growing states in the country, if my memory is correct.
I’ve often wondered why Kentucky doesn’t have an NBA team? Is the NBA afraid of Wildcats and Cardinals? Though there has been some back room whispers of the NBA putting a team in Louisville.
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@globaljaybird
There is only so much disposable income in any metro area and the KC metro area is probably at the limit of what it can support. I am not sure how well a NBA team would do at this time in KC; with the Chiefs always drawing and the new found Royals suddenly being good again, the disposable income is just not there, particularly since the Sporting Kansas City is also taking a share and it is wildly successful.
Had they built Sprint Center around the Legends, I imagine a NBA team it would have a better chance since there is a lot more income in the Kansas than the Missouri side of the metro area. Th Sprint Center is very nice and the Power and Light district rocks, however, it you walk a couple of blocks away, it is still a dump and a dangerous one at that. I have been to the Sprint Center for the Big 12 Tournament during the day, but I would be hesitant to go there after dark; I know for a fact that I am not the only one that feels this way.
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@JayHawkFanToo We’ve had this discussion before & I have to agree that crime around the P & L is quite a problem as it would be in most other cities with as much adjacent decadence. Even as far South of the metro as we’ve lived for the past 10 years, I still have to be vigilant. Sheriffs response time on the only 911 call we’ve ever made was over 10 minutes but I was locked & loaded in 30 seconds.Also rural burglaries are not uncommon & we were actually broken in to about 2010. We are now considering moving completely out of the KC area for our retirement years. The gentleman & his Mother that were shot gunned down last Summer in South KC, along with 3 other elderly neighbors, adjacent to Leawood, was a very dear friend. I am physically just too old to conceal carry, but my sons & I have a 30 yard pistol range out in my pasture. We also occasionally shoot skeet out here too, plus try to keep skills well enough honed to protect our homes & families. We own Glocks, Sig Sauers, Marlins, Remingtons, & Brownings. Quite sadly & regrettably that’s just the way of the world so many live in at present, but on the high side, firearms continue to be a very solid financial investment-Just don’t want to pack one around with me all the while.
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@globaljaybird
It is not just the crime but also the crime abetted by the City and the Police. I have friends that thought that by all indications had parked legally in the area only to have their cars towed away and the towing/storage companies wanting several hundred dollars to release the cars and the City and Police would not lift a finger.
I owned a building in the nearby Freight House District and towing companies would come at night and tow car from out private, off-the-street parking lot; they just assumed that any one parking there at night was doing it illegally and as long as the lot owners did not know, they got away with it. One time my partner was working late and her car was towed from our own lot and we had to go to court to get the towing company to pay for the damage to her car, while the City and Police chose to do nothing. It is a racket and the City and Police are smack in the middle of it. A couple of TV station have done stories on the subject and it gets better for few weeks and then it back to the same old thing.
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@globaljaybird
Mizzou has had teams that were ranked. And our rivalry often went back and forth. They seem headed downward to even further lows… their first-year coach, Kim Anderson, comes from D2 ball for the Central Missouri Mules. The Mules? He did lead them to back-to-back MIAA Championships… but seriously… Mizzou couldn’t find a quality D1 coach?
Can anyone in here imagine Kansas hiring Emil Pospissle from D2 and the Central Kansas Jackasses?
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Don’t forget they passed on Bill Self and chose Quin Snyder instead. I for one am thankful for their incompetence.
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@JayHawkFanToo KCMO Public School ineptitude is only surpassed by their city government’s’ inability to do most anything correct. They have thrown close to a billion $ at a couple of miles of light rail, streetcars, whatever it’s called & still have accomplished little if anything that could remotely help those beyond an extremely small interest group. I have been told that nepotism is rampant in regards to this project. Also a close friend who has since passed on, owned a tow service in KCMO about 20 years ago. He told me he paid off a new $90,000 1 1/2 T Ford wrecker in only 2 years. Trucks are exponentially costlier now, but these days the methods & tactics of the KCMO PD & tow truck owners may be even shadier than ever.
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@drgnslayr LMAO !! I remember a lot of “rank” misery teams too !!
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Talk about a loaded question for Self… “So Bill… if Mizzou had offered you the job, would you have taken it?”
@globaljaybird
It was always fun watching those ranked Mizzou teams eventually melt down. Especially Norm’s teams.
I wonder if that gas station would still keep their offer today? Remember that? When Norm told the world he wouldn’t even buy gas in the State of Kansas and the Kansas gas station offered him free gas? He didn’t take it, and the entire world realized what a dick he was.
“Missouri’s former basketball coach Norm Stewart would traditionally have his players stay in Kansas City, Missouri, before playing at Kansas, going so far as to require the team bus to buy its gasoline at a Missouri filling station and reprimanding players who ate in Kansas, as he did not want to put any money into Kansas’ economy.”
“Sit down, Norm!”
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@drgnslayr said:
If KC has a competitive NBA team, would it damper KU attendance?
It just so happens that KC once had an NBA team (we can debate how competitive they were) from 1975-1985. I would say that the program has experienced this effect.
During that decade, KU had 5 NCAA appearances and advanced to the Sweet Sixteen once (and lost to Wichita State). Three seasons were .500 or below. One conference title. Finished 7th twice.
Not sure what the attendance numbers were, but during that period, I attended many games where I could walk in and pick my seat. It was easy to run up and down the bleachers during a game. And for the games during break, when students were out, they would invite local high school basketball teams to come watch the game… There were blocks of seats given to them so they could watch a college game.
Is it a coincidence or causation that this period was when the Kings were in KC?
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@bskeet I can’t see empty seats in AFH, ever!
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@Crimsonorblue22 A scary image just appeared! Many many years ago, I was one of the little guys got tossed up at the north end of AFH to distract the opponents from making the free throws. I had no fear at all if there were nobody to catch me, i will still land on bodies. Wow, in that empty stadium, no way!
I was fortunate to be at KU when Brown and Danny were there. Yes, part of the 1988.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I know! It’s hard to believe but there absolutely were times where the crowds were well under 10k.
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Those were the final years of the Ted Owens era and they ended up costing him his job.
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With the program in his current status, I just don’t see any KC team affecting attendance.
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KU has been winning titles 10 straight seasons and 3 titles in 4 years for 25 seasons. We have at least 4 ten year cohorts of fans that have grown accustomed to almost nothing but a high probability of a win and a likely title. Our coaches have been talented, popular characters for 25-30 years. Our success is fun and envied. Our corporations and private oligarchs have mostly enabled and shepherded us instead of trying to take us over. The Grail is under our court. Move the circumstance to Stillwater, or Norman, and it would be the same.
End our winning ways for five years and things would get ugly quickly with frustration and attendance would fall. Ten years and it would all be a distant memory of a gone time.
D1 full houses at current prices require corporate entertainment fans and rich folk to attend. They go for a fun experience. Watching some top talent win 82% of the time keeps the rich and incorporated butts in the seats. Period.
KU’s cadre of serious basketball fans that love the game good or bad is big enough to fill the place but not rich enough, or local enough, to fill it at current prices. Most serious fans stay connected through media and see a game a year, or a game every 5 years. Or when given tickets.
Losing kills attendance in NY, LA, Columbia, or Lawrence in any sport.
Pauley Pavillion attendance sags in the midst of 10-15 million persons, when UCLA struggles. There are enough persons within a 20 minute drive from Pauley Pavillion, each with enough money to buy Pauley Pavillion, to fill it for any game. But they don’t, and UCLA has a great sports heritage in most sports. Only winning now and recently keeps houses full. Integration with Jackie Robinson at UCLA before the Brooklyn Dodgers? Who cares? Great football teams in the golden age of sports? Who cares? The greatest run in college basketball history in the 1960? Who cares? Rings in the 90s and four straight FFs in the naught decade? Whaddaya won for me lately? Who cares?
Mediocrity puts attendance in occasional big crowds and lots of 3/4 to half full with early departures.
Sport is entertainment.
If it’s not entertaining, persons and corporations find something else that is.
Bottom line?
KU has won 10 straight titles and looks to be headed to an 11th.
Why pay big money to go to a basketball game, when your team hasn’t won in ten years and it appears it won’t this season either, whether the OKC Thunder is there or not?
Next.
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@drgnslayr I’ve heard that story for years - about Norm not spending any money in Kansas. I’m guessing they mean besides the strip clubs.
No malice?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Nick has aged so much on this thread, he’s got ivy climbing his trunk.
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@jaybate-1.0 said:
KU’s cadre of serious basketball fans that love the game good or bad is big enough to fill the place but not rich enough, or local enough, to fill it at current prices. Most serious fans stay connected through media and see a game a year, or a game every 5 years. Or when given tickets.
I, personally have NOT attended a KU Game at AFH in over 30-years! Me and my wife was fortunate enough that we could go to 1 or 2 games each year and we would sit way up high near the top of the fieldhouse. I WONDER, wonder what is the PRICE of TWO tickets at AFH would be at today’s pricing? (NOT that I would go … physically, my wife could not climb the stairs). Any educated guesses of today’s pricing on two tickets?? Just curious !!! Thank You!
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I attended plenty of KU games in that era. You are right in that fact that AFH was usually not full.
I went to my fair share of KC Kings games, too. They were alive from 1972 through 1985 before heading out west to Sacremento. In the beginning the games were split between Omaha and KC. Omaha! They were first called “Kansas City-Omaha Kings.”
During that period, they made it to the playoffs 5 times, including a trip to the conference finals. They had some talent… like Tiny Archibald. Phil Jackson was one of their coaches until he was fired! But there was plenty of boring basketball played in KC during those years. I would often catch up on my sleep by attending games.
For most of their existence they played in Kemper, except when the roof collapsed and they were forced to play in Municipal Auditorium… which didn’t even hold 10k fans. Towards the end of their existence they only drew an average of 6,400 fans per game. Hardly a drain on the Jayhawks. Most of those in attendance were from free tickets given away, like at car dealerships. This is part of my point about how important it is to bring more quality basketball in the area… because bad basketball drives ticket prices to zero and gives out bad entertainment and associates it to basketball in general.
The team was sold to investors for only $10.5 million dollars in '83, and they were anxious to move the team to a better market… $10.5m wouldn’t have even bought the concession rights to Arrowhead back then!
I remember the few diehard fans that protested the loss of the Kings from KC. What I remember most was how few diehard fans there were.
"There was apparently little protest, though, when the Kings ultimately moved to Sacramento.
“Frankly, I thought I would catch a lot of flak on it because they left very abruptly,” then Kansas City mayor Dick Berkley once told The Sacramento Press. “I got four or five phone calls. I thought I would get hundreds.”"
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Both start out empty… But one is filled for every game. Last year, the one on the right was 90% filled for a practice, where many lower middle class fans got to see the Jayhawks in person for the first time.
To quote @jaybate-1.0, “It used to be that rich folks went on cruises and everyone else went to a basketball game, now, it’s the other way around.”
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Just my 2 cents… I think success begets success. Late pm was not as full as usual, one reason was the royals playing post season, then the weather and a wreck. The few games I’ve gone to, there are always chief players, last week 4 royals players, and George Brett. The fans went nuts and started the let’s go royals chant, pretty darn cool! KU fans are a step up than the rest! Chiefs and royals back each other and I like that they have added KU to that mix. I know self supports them. It’s just fun!
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@RedRooster I am one of those fans who must budget out at least one game. I make sure that the whole family can go, so it gets quite pricey. The cheapest seats, if you get them early enough for a conference game (depending on which game) ranges from 60-150 bucks. I was able to get tickets to the Oklahoma State game for 65 dollars a piece. And when you buy 7 tickets, gas (I live in Iowa), and concessions, we are easily looking at over 500 dollars for the night. But it is well worth being apart of the atmosphere!
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You are a real Jayhawk!
RCJH!
“Chiefs and royals back each other and I like that they have added KU to that mix. I know self supports them.”
Right on! I think this has a lot to do with Kansas playing games at Sprint. We have been building a love affair with KC for a long time, but even more in recent years. Sprint is a great venue… especially when you add in the P&L District. Lots of seats and an “away” game!
Brett has always supported the Jayhawks, even back in his playing days. He was constantly coming to Lawrence with Hurdle to party. Many of us have drinking experiences with this HOF’er.
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@JhawkAlum THANK YOU! Thank You, thank you … I had no idea what a per game ticket would cost … $60.00 to $150.00 !! Now I have a reason that this ole retired and tired ole man stays home and listens to the game on the radio OR watches them on Television !!
Thanks again JhawkAlum … you are THE MAN !!
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@RedRooster Me too Rooster!! No way I can justify 65 bucks a seat when I’ve no lines at the head, no fuel surcharge, no sweat getting the view on the replay, no problem getting a samich & chips at the fridge,…or banishing my most feared dissenter to the bedroom to watch Housewives of Beverly Hills !! Plus my dish is running about $100 monthly without IT or a land line. Guys like us are paying well above enough IMO. At worst, it’s Bob Davis & Gurley on the squawk box w/ brandy & chaser to wash it all to the homeland !! Which I’ve no problem living with. Rock Chalk !!.
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@globaljaybird Amen Bro … you are talking like me … !
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@globaljaybird you really need to go w/me to a game, bring your binocs!
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Hey, did I say that? I deserve a…PHOF!
And thanks for that awesome picture of Coach Allen at the field house. I don’t recall seeing it. But I sure do recall seeing those nets a few times, when my pop would take me to the field house during the day time on a non game day.
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@JayHawkFanToo Here’s a link to the KC Business Journal article on the financial problems at the P & L. looks like the city of KCMO is holding the bag again. PP eliminates PP Performance. Guess the ex Marines didn’t get the message on this one either.
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@globaljaybird
I am always leery of developers that claim that the increase in sales tax will pay for the project. It never does.
