Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk im starting to get this feeling You don’t even read what I post. You just see my name and form assumptions. To bad just like somebody that posts on here.
Please explain to me how it’s the current presidents fault that a mighty nation like the US has become so reliant on a communist country for their much needed medicines. A point you have yet to disprove. I mean I do appreciate you playing the semantics card but the truth is United States of America is reliant on China for key medicines. Yes you’re right at this point the supply chain has not been disrupted. But who’s to say it will stay that way. The point that I was trying to make if you would have read my post.
It appears to me that You’re not a true libertarian. A true libertarian will sit down and debate the facts of the situation. I’m sorry but from what I can see you’re nothing but a Trump hater. You want to blame him for everything even when it’s not his fault. I’m willing to bet you blame the Republican Party for this fiasco of trying to pass a stimulus package for the coronavirus epidemic. All the while ignoring that the Dems and Nancy Pelosi tried putting in all this other stuff I mean like $45 million for the Kennedy whatever. Nothing like a party trying to take advantage of the American people in trying times.
That feeling is mutual. Like in this very thread I blamed Speaker Pelosi and Senate Democrats for the stimulus holdup. Your point was “the US has no capability to make medicine.” If that was not your point, just say so. I can’t debate what you MEANT to say after I refuted your original post.
I never said that either. I said he’s made the problem worse with the trade war, which they’ve basically admitted in deferring tariffs for the next 90 days. If they’re helping the economy (in which case why pause?) and the Chinese pay them (again, why would we not bring in the revenue?) what are accomplishing by starting the damn trade war in the first place? Production hasn’t come back to the U.S., and the tariffs have made it more difficult to access global supply chains.
Libertarians believe in free trade, free markets, and free people. Trump believes in none of those things, so if it feels like I’m constantly disagreeing with his policy decisions, that’s probably why. I don’t like tariffs (Trump LOVES them), I don’t like most immigration restrictions (Trump hired Stephen Miller. 'nuff said there.) I don’t like huge deficits other than in times of emergency (Trump is the self-proclaimed King of Debt. Hmmm…) I don’t like regulations. His CDC and FDA kept private labs from testing for COVID to “keep the numbers low.” I VEHEMENTLY disagree with his proposal to “get the country running by Easter.” That’s dangerous and thousands will die unnecessarily.
It’s not personal with Trump and I. I’ve never met him and likely won’t. I just disagree with many things he’s done. Yes, he’s called me human scum and that’s fine. I’ve been called a lot worse during met times in politics. I just don’t have much higher of an opinion that that of him.
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Well to be fair the trade war was in place before the coronavirus epidemic. The problem with the free trade theroy. Is that the Chinese government was taking advantage of US trade policies as many other countries like Mexico and Canada. Unfair trade practices does not equal fair trade. You have to have a balance we’re both countries/nations benefit or it’s not fair. I do not condemn anybody for disliking Trump. However when one person becomes a source of everything that is wrong in this government and the world? Then I just tune out. What’s the point? It’s like saying Obama was to blame for everything that happened while he was in office, or Bill Clinton is to blame for everything that went wrong with NAFTA. I read his autobiography, actually was good read.
As for a politician Calling voters names. That goes both ways my friend. Remember the deplorable’s? I mean hell being a republican or conservative you’re basically called a racist, homophobe, sexist, and whatever. No matter what the issue is. All I can tell you is when I post I try be as truthful as my knowledge will allow me to be.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Well to be fair the trade war was in place before the coronavirus epidemic. The problem with the free trade theroy. Is that the Chinese government was taking advantage of US trade policies as many other countries like Mexico and Canada. Unfair trade practices does not equal fair trade. You have to have a balance we’re both countries/nations benefit or it’s not fair. I do not condemn anybody for disliking Trump. However when one person becomes a source of everything that is wrong in this government and the world? Then I just tune out. What’s the point? It’s like saying Obama was to blame for everything that happened while he was in office, or Bill Clinton is to blame for everything that went wrong with NAFTA. I read his autobiography, actually was good read.
As for a politician Calling voters names. That goes both ways my friend. Remember the deplorable’s? I mean hell being a republican or conservative you’re basically called a racist, homophobe, sexist, and whatever. No matter what the issue is. All I can tell you is when I post I try be as truthful as my knowledge will allow me to be.
The issue is we WERE benefitting from things like China in the WTO and NAFTA. Protectionism just doesn’t work. https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-819-updated.pdf https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2019/trade-war-chicken.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2019086pap.pdf
I’ve never said Trump was the source of everything wrong with government. I have a big ass laundry list there with both R’s and D’s. But it’s boring (to most people) stuff like the non-delegation doctrine and the size of the U.S. House.
Yeah, it’s crap whoever does it. First rule of politics is don’t insult voters. I didn’t vote for either of them in 2016.
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All I can say on the protectionism. Yea I get it, but what we were doing wasn’t working either. Something had to be done. We can’t just keep kicking the can down the road.
I think where Trump went wrong is creating a war with the media. It doesn’t help him trying to get his agenda done. Like trying to fix our trade deals. Without the support it becomes just a trade war, and why it was needed gets lost.
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Also if one country isn’t abiding by the trade deal? Is it really a trade deal anymore?
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Well… I’m pretty convinced that we are in a cold war with China and have been for quite awhile… It’s escalating now with the rhetoric and the ejection of journalists.
Covid-19 is a particularly ironic Chinese export given it’s distinction as a ‘novel’ virus and the fact that China was historically known for and benefited from its ability to copy the original work of others.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
I mean @bskeet as we sent over all our abilities to make medicine to the Chinese because it’s cheaper todo so. Or is it?
I didn’t ignore this… I just don’t follow it. But given that the conversation was 24 hours ago… maybe we just let pass. There was a bunch of stuff I didn’t grok in the back and forth that followed.
Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy.
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WE HAVE A DEAL FAM https://twitter.com/chadpergram/status/1242680634071494656?s=21
P.S. Chad is a must follow for Hill action. Always gives it straight, never his opinion. Has great taste in wine too according to my former boss
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@jayballer73 throwing up some prayers for you and your family
Thank you I appreciate that
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Just updating for my friends that gave thoughts for my situation. - - Daughter made it out ok, the cyst had ruptured , but was able to save the ovary. - Seems to be doing ok, just really sore just going to take time down flat for some days - -was a LONG NIGHT didn’t hear anything till late, but Thank God sounds like she will be ok, probably going to send the cyst off for Biopsy fingers crossed. Thanks to everyone. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 Whew! Glad to hear it came out ok.
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@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@jayballer73 Whew! Glad to hear it came out ok.
ya that makes tree of us buddy thanks
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@jayballer73 that’s a tough situation, especially while being quarantined. We are all with you buddy.
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Great news @jayballer73
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Watching Cuomo presser. Wow where has this Cuomo been? Very much in control, strong language, trying to unite, and not blaming Trump for everything. Can he steal them Dem ticket?
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@DoubleDD He’s been solid, I agree.
I’m assuming if he were to run for President, the Fox News hit-job would smear him to the point you’d be getting a negative impression. So if you like the guy now, by hearing directly from him, if he does have a future in higher office, don’t forget to hear it straight from his mouth then as well
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@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD He’s been solid, I agree.
I’m assuming if he were to run for President, the Fox News hit-job would smear him to the point you’d be getting a negative impression. So if you like the guy now, by hearing directly from him, if he does have a future in higher office, don’t forget to hear it straight from his mouth then as well
Hey if you’re going to get in the ring then one must except to be smeared. I’m not sure I could vote him. As I’m pretty sure he’s a big backer of the Paris climate accord. I’ll have todo some homework on that one. Im all for helping the environment but not if we Americans are picking up the bill while China, and India get to continue to pollute.
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@kjayhawks said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@jayballer73 that’s a tough situation, especially while being quarantined. We are all with you buddy.
Really appreciate the words. Thank God everything turned out all right. – Came through , just really sore was able to remove the cyst. Ya really long hours not being able to be at the hospital and waiting on a phone call.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Great news @jayballer73
Thank You really appreciated. Really nervous hours when you dealing with the unkown
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@jayballer73 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
Great news @jayballer73
Thank You really appreciated. Really nervous hours when you dealing with the unkown
I know the feeling, glad everything turned out great.
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD He’s been solid, I agree.
I’m assuming if he were to run for President, the Fox News hit-job would smear him to the point you’d be getting a negative impression. So if you like the guy now, by hearing directly from him, if he does have a future in higher office, don’t forget to hear it straight from his mouth then as well
Hey if you’re going to get in the ring then one must except to be smeared. I’m not sure I could vote him. As I’m pretty sure he’s a big backer of the Paris climate accord. I’ll have todo some homework on that one. Im all for helping the environment but not if we Americans are picking up the bill while China, and India get to continue to pollute.
You know what they say, everything said before the but doesn’t really matter. I guess if we can’t get an uncooperative authoritarian government in on a deal, why even bother.
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@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD He’s been solid, I agree.
I’m assuming if he were to run for President, the Fox News hit-job would smear him to the point you’d be getting a negative impression. So if you like the guy now, by hearing directly from him, if he does have a future in higher office, don’t forget to hear it straight from his mouth then as well
Hey if you’re going to get in the ring then one must except to be smeared. I’m not sure I could vote him. As I’m pretty sure he’s a big backer of the Paris climate accord. I’ll have todo some homework on that one. Im all for helping the environment but not if we Americans are picking up the bill while China, and India get to continue to pollute.
You know what they say, everything said before the but doesn’t really matter. I guess if we can’t get an uncooperative authoritarian government in on a deal, why even bother.
Well that’s a Tricky question? As a nation do you hand over all your monies resources to try to save the earth. Not an easy question to answer?
Only to find yourself in service to A socialist and communist government That tells you what todo because you Are afriad of hurting the environment. Which isn’t really true. It’s more about saving humanity. Yet what is humanity if it’s fearful and allows rouge nations to rule over them for fear of hurting the Environment? is that living? Should we give credence and bow to the wishes to every rouge nation that threatens the environment?
Just to save the environment?
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If we can’t live free ? Then I say blow this big old earth up. I mean I get some of you will do what you are told to do to live. I respect that. It’s just not me.
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@DoubleDD you don’t have kids I guess. There’s more to life than individual happiness. If we can agree on that, then in all likelihood freedom will return for future generations even if freedoms are compromised in the present. I didnt follow the conversation before the last post. I’m just responding to yours.
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@DoubleDD To me it’s all down to how you balance the needs of an individual with the needs of the community. Collectivism v individualism. Neither can exist without the other and if you stray to far to either side the whole system collapses. I personally believe American society places too much emphasis on the wants of the individual and has in many cases ignored the needs of the collective.
At some point for me, if someone is to be a good person, they have to put the needs of others first. But these days if that happens people just seem to argue about if it’s fair or not or why don’t I get that or I never needed that so why should anyone else or my favorite what about when that person in the past did this or that.
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We aren’t free. We are just house slaves (third world is field slaves).
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@benshawks08 @wissox is like that too, his Mlb team stinks though
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Sox will be in the playoffs this year…if they play.
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I think we’ve gone too far in the direction of collectivism, to be honest. I think the federal government tries to do too much for too many people (like, there’s no reason they should be a venture capital firm or student loan bank). I also detest the rise of identity politics on both the left and right. I’m not a Randian who doesn’t like private charity and things like that, but the decline in civic engagement really worries me. There’s certainly a correlation between the size of government and the decline of civil society. As the size of government increases, so does the incentive for private firms to seek rents (e.g. spend on lobbying).
I’d like to see the state shrink, and increased freedom of movement for both labor and capital. Far too many things are illegal (drug use, prostitution, gambling, making cheap gas cans, testing for COVID-19.) Like we could eliminate the whole of the Department of Energy and not that many people would notice. Just relocate the maintenance of our nuclear arsenal (of which we have far too much) to DoD. F.A. Hayek is bae. (as an aside, I think every American should read both John Rawls’s A Theory of Justice and Hayek’s Law, Legislation, and Liberty. Both do a very good job of steel manning each argument, and then be free to decide where you land on the topic.
And to head off any “there are no libertarians in pandemics” stuff, the country’s foremost libertarian politician, Rep. Justin Amash, endorses a massive relief package. After all, there are VERY few Murray Rothbard type anarcho-capitalists. I am not one of them. I’m just very skeptical of central planning.
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@FarmerJayhawk Well I will agree big government doesn’t work when it’s filled with and led by folks trying to break it as it is now.
Edit: I was also talking more as a society and less about politics with the individual vs collective stuff.
Now for some folks who are really making it work here’s an awesome piece for Texas monthly about the best grocery store chain in Texas.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/food/heb-prepared-coronavirus-pandemic/
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@benshawks08 a pretty impressive co. Is this just a Texas co? I didn’t see if that was mentioned. Thx for sharing.
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@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk Well I will agree big government doesn’t work when it’s filled with and led by folks trying to break it as it is now.
Edit: I was also talking more as a society and less about politics with the individual vs collective stuff.
Now for some folks who are really making it work here’s an awesome piece for Texas monthly about the best grocery store chain in Texas.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/food/heb-prepared-coronavirus-pandemic/
I definitely agree the lack of social cohesion is a problem. We’ve replaced it with government and wheeeew boy is it a cluster
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yep. Just Texas I’m pretty sure. Was a solid dillons customer growing up in Wichita but H-E-B quickly won me over here I. Texas. They hire a ton of my students, pay them well, give them opportunities to move up, help them pay for school, take care of their employees with longevity discounts on groceries for life after 5 years, donated tons (literally) of water to austin schools when city had a boil water order, just donated $100,000 dollars to help feed austin isd students during this pandemic, and just always seem to do the right thing. Unfortunately, can’t count on all businesses to be run that way.
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@FarmerJayhawk I think it’s more the valuing of money and corporations over people than government. Now government has certainly had a something to do with shifting those values. And yes, conservatives and neoliberals are both to blame. But public schools, welfare, and civil rights aren’t the problem.
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@benshawks08 Dillion’s hires a ton of students but they don’t treat them well. They are desperate for help now, Walmart too. They are putting shields up and marking the floors for spacing at the checkouts. Reduced their hrs.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html
Article about how Cuomo has a very different understanding of reality than Trump in terms of New Yorks need for ventillators.
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@BShark said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
We aren’t free. We are just house slaves (third world is field slaves).
Freedom is a matter of perception or definition. Every person has to decide that answer for themselves.
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@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html
Article about how Cuomo has a very different understanding of reality than Trump in terms of New Yorks need for ventillators.
I did a little research on Cuomo. Why was NY so unprepared for the spread of the coronavirus?
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It is one of the largest cities in the world
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Cuomo is Huge on open borders. Come one come all. No need to Look into ones past. Where they come from and so on.
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He’s screaming for financial reparations for NY as it has been hit the hardest.
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Now he wants to put coronavirus victims in retired or old folks homes.
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At one point NY officials were rejecting ventilators from the federal government.
I don’t know? Thinking some of this is self inflicted. Crazy as it seems the hardest hit states and cities in America are the ones that believe in open borders, and are sanctuary cities.
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It appears the New York Times the beacon of freedom. Wants all your personal info to read their can’t dispute truths. Sorry about that @BShark. Now I know what you were saying.
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Oh Nice job on PBS scoring more money on their current budget on a stimulus package for Americans and Businesses suffering from Coronavirus. Nothing like sticking it to the tax payers.
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@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@FarmerJayhawk I think it’s more the valuing of money and corporations over people than government. Now government has certainly had a something to do with shifting those values. And yes, conservatives and neoliberals are both to blame. But public schools, welfare, and civil rights aren’t the problem.
Public schools aren’t to blame? A institution that really by all respects teaches socialism. Welfare? Another institution that doesn’t push people to be self-reliant yet demands them to be dependent upon the government. Civil rights? What does that mean anymore? We just had a supreme court justice nominee that had to deal with a woman that couldn’t remember where the so-called attempted rape took place what time the rate to place, yeah because she is a woman and she was a part of the me to movement it didn’t matter. Civil rights today are guilty until proven innocent not what our founding fathers wanted.
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I know you guys hate Fox News, but trust me Juan Williams is more liberal an more a trump hater than all you combined. Wow.
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@DoubleDD A. No they don’t. B. You ever tried to file for government assistance? C. She had to deal with a lot more than him for even coming forward. Three out of every four sexual assaults go u reported. Wonder why that is if as you say the guy is guilty till proven innocent? Bret wasn’t proven innocent nor was the president, yet they hold two of the highest offices in the country
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@DoubleDD said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@approxinfinity said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html
Article about how Cuomo has a very different understanding of reality than Trump in terms of New Yorks need for ventillators.
I did a little research on Cuomo. Why was NY so unprepared for the spread of the coronavirus?
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It is one of the largest cities in the world
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Cuomo is Huge on open borders. Come one come all. No need to Look into ones past. Where they come from and so on.
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He’s screaming for financial reparations for NY as it has been hit the hardest.
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Now he wants to put coronavirus victims in retired or old folks homes.
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At one point NY officials were rejecting ventilators from the federal government.
I don’t know? Thinking some of this is self inflicted. Crazy as it seems the hardest hit states and cities in America are the ones that believe in open borders, and are sanctuary cities.
New York is way ahead in numbers because of population, population density, and testing per capita. They also might be ahead of the curve for the rest of the country because they have more international travel than just about any place in the world. Undocumented people have absolutely nothing to do with the spread of the pandemic in New York.
“Self inflicted,” please. By that logic the whole country is self inflicted if you were to list out trumps inactions. But should the federal government do as Trump said and just “not call” those governors who “aren’t nice” to him?
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@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@DoubleDD A. No they don’t. B. You ever tried to file for government assistance? C. She had to deal with a lot more than him for even coming forward. Three out of every four sexual assaults go u reported. Wonder why that is if as you say the guy is guilty till proven innocent? Bret wasn’t proven innocent nor was the president, yet they hold two of the highest offices in the country
We are kind of off the rails here, maybe @approxinfinity wants to split this line of discussion but man, what a horrible view of sexual assault from DD. So many girls and women commit suicide after being raped BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY WON’T BE BELIEVED AND CAN’T LIVE WITH THE INTERNAL SHAME.
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@BShark Seems like certain people tend to take it off the rails on the regular by bringing up random inflammatory takes because they don’t have a real response or independently thought out opinion. For someone who wants to “be free” @DoubleDD could use a little freeing of the mind from alt right talking points.
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To go on some more after taking a breather…
Look at how long Cosby was able to molest and rape women unchecked. Now do we need to actually default to automatically throwing accused men in prison? No. That also isn’t happening. What we do need to do is better foster a society where women aren’t afraid to report sexual crimes. Unless you know and have talked to women that have been raped and/or domestically abused you don’t know how it is. Some men get a woman living in fear, thinking they can never break away. Men are not immune to this either. I’ve seen time and time again men falling into the same type of destructive/toxic relationship (usually emotional or financial abuse) so it can go both ways.
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Wow didn’t know we are taking this to a personal level? I guess it’s par for the course. Sure I think woman should be able to come forth, and demand justice. Just don’t think we should swing the pendulum so far that another person is presumed guilty until proven innocent. The Cavanaugh trials was a big sham of justice there ever was.
If you took the same parameters and evidence and witnesses that were in the Cavanaugh hearings and apply them to an average person in the streets? That case never sees the light of day in a courthouse.
That is politics trying to subvert the constitution and the rights of the people.
