Late Night Snacks: George Washington wins the Diamond Head Classic
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Take a note Bill…WSU goes down in Hawaii to a 1-3-1 zone.
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The best defense known to basketball … 1-3-1. I continue to wonder what last year’s team could have done if Self would have flipped to a zone in early December.
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In fairness, it wasn’t an ordinary 1-3-1, at least according to the loser:
“It’s an unusual defense. You don’t see it every day,” Wichita State coach Gregg Marshall said. “It’s kind of a 1-3-1, but they really go all the way to half court.” ESPN
Does @HighEliteMajor or anyone else know more about what GW does differently?
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Um, its like what Heathcote ran at MSU with Magic’s team.
Its called a half court, or 3/4s of half court, match-up 1-3-1, Greg. They may not have carried MSU games to you in the Carolinas back in those days, Greg. Maybe you should get a kinescope, eh?
And calling Bill Self!
This zone works.
It is who we are, when we are this flipping challenged in front court.
Never, never, never, never, ever, ever, ever, let our front court guys play opponent straight up…EVER!.
It is a horrible habit for these guys to get into when they lay against weak teams.
Our KU bigs cannot guard L&S bigs straight up, so that is NOT who we are.
We are a bunch of leathernecks that don’t play fair; that mass force wherever needed; that NEVER take on opponents one on one, unless all of the artillery and tanks have been destroyed, and unless all of the flame throwers and satchel charges are expended.
Our goal from here on should be for Perry Ellis (and all the rest of the bigs too) to NEVER guard ANY big without a double in m2m, or a collapse in a zone.
1-3-1 match-up zone 70% of the time with the other 30% of the time unexpected switches to 3/4 court 2-2-1 pressing falling back into m2m.
And on offense…
Artillery, artillery, artillery until their defenses crack and then Oubre putting it on the deck to iron, with The Big Red Dog sticking back.
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I wish we played defense like Louie-ville. They trap, they press, they mix in zone along with tough man to man, depending on the circumstances. They get tons of run outs every game. They have been rated in the top 10 in defense for years.
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1-3-1 works under a couple of circumstances.
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If a team lacks ball handling. Basically any trap will work against teams that don’t have ball handlers, but the 1-3-1 makes life especially difficult because you can’t slip a big man into the middle of the floor to relieve the pressure.
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If a team lacks good interior scoring. The 1-3-1 is vulnerable on the back line by nature of there being only one guy back there. Because of that, if a team has good scorers inside, the 1-3-1 becomes vulnerable because it can be attacked on that back line. However, if you don’t have skill guys back there, they cannot exploit the single baseline defender. WSU was certainly hurt here.
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If a team can’t shoot from the perimeter. The 1-3-1 takes away the wings and top. You have to be able to hit from three in the corner to exploit the 1-3-1 because then you either make the 1 at the bottom pursue to the corner, or you stretch the wing defender all the way into the corner. Neither option is appealing because that stretches the defense in all sorts of strange ways.
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If a team lacks backcourt size. The trap works well against smaller guards because they can get into trouble if they cannot see the release valves. I think this is what hurt WSU because Van Vleet isn’t very big, but he is critical to WSU setting up their offense. The 1-3-1 took the ball out of his hands at times.
If KU were to run the 1-3-1 I would like to see them put Oubre at the top. His length would make life very difficult on the opposition. Selden and Mason would work nicely along the wings. I would put Alexander in the middle because he is the best rebounder and shot blocker, and then have Perry play at the bottom. Alexander’s athleticism would help on the glass because he would not have early position. Mason and Selden are both good rebounders for their size. Kelly covers a lot of ground, so on a long rebound, he could recover on the perimeter to the shooters. This would be a fun experiment.
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All good points. Self will take note and run a m2m the next… all remaining games.
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The 1-3-1 is a good defense to limit perimeter scoring because you have wings on both sides. It works if you feel like your post defender can hold down the fort.
I’m a big fan of this zone, but it does open up possibilities to give up more offensive rebounds.
But still… it is all about the offense attacking the seams (same as with playing against any kind of zone).
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I actually watched the game and while the 1-3-1 zone created problems for WSU, to say this is the reason it lost is disingenuous. WSU had less turnovers than GWU (11 to 15) which is by no means a huge number of turnovers, considering that KU averages 13 per game. Some of the turnovers were Greene-like careless bad passes and uncharacteristic of WSU which tends to be a disciplined team, and not necessarily caused by the zone defense. The main problem was that the two best WSU shooters, Baker and VanVleet were frigid cold and missed wide open shots that they normally made; both well below their averages. Barker was particularly off, shooting only 4-12 from the field and 1-6 from 3; he shot 13-41 for the tournament (33.7%), well below his season average of over 50%. Carter, VanVleet and Barker combined to shoot 11 of 37 from the field. Wichita State was up by 7 with 7 minutes to play and score 4 points the rest of the way while GWU score 17 point. Like I said, most of the shots WSU missed were not really contested but open shots that they normally make at a much higher percentage. Just my observations, I am sure others will disagree.
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@JayHawkFanToo 40pct sounds much more realistic for a guard anyway. Playing better competition will bring that 50pct back down to Earth, regardless of the defense.
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Good call on the Shockers. Frigid shooting… and I think part of that was a combination of GWU hustling on d and WSU lacking motion in their offense. I noticed WSU players mostly standing in one area on offense, hoping quick passes would open up the defense. Meanwhile, GWU’s offense was in a constant state of motion. They ran picks all over the floor, and their guys reacted off the picks… pick and rolls, pick and pops… WSU, on the other hand, would set a few high screens that GWU would fight through, and that was about it.
I was impressed with GWU as a team. If they can limit their TOs they have a bright future!
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Slick’d’ville does have an appealingly frenetic defensive pace that keeps opponents out of comfort zones.
What I like about Rick’s approach is that when you have the right pieces for a champion, you win the ring.
Rick may not be quite as clever at Self at doing a lot with a little, but when he has the pieces, he tends to get the kill.
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@globaljaybird
Not necessarily since Baker scores a fair amount on drives to the basket and layups, but he shot only 33% for the game and 31% for the tournament.
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@jaybate-1.0 said:
Um, its like what Heathcote ran at MSU with Magic’s team.
Its called a half court, or 3/4s of half court, match-up 1-3-1, Greg. They may not have carried MSU games to you in the Carolinas back in those days, Greg. Maybe you should get a kinescope, eh?
And calling Bill Self!
This zone works.
It is who we are, when we are this flipping challenged in front court.
Never, never, never, never, ever, ever, ever, let our front court guys play opponent straight up…EVER!.
It is a horrible habit for these guys to get into when they lay against weak teams.
Our KU bigs cannot guard L&S bigs straight up, so that is NOT who we are.
We are a bunch of leathernecks that don’t play fair; that mass force wherever needed; that NEVER take on opponents one on one, unless all of the artillery and tanks have been destroyed, and unless all of the flame throwers and satchel charges are expended.
Our goal from here on should be for Perry Ellis (and all the rest of the bigs too) to NEVER guard ANY big without a double in m2m, or a collapse in a zone.
1-3-1 match-up zone 70% of the time with the other 30% of the time unexpected switches to 3/4 court 2-2-1 pressing falling back into m2m.
And on offense…
Artillery, artillery, artillery until their defenses crack and then Oubre putting it on the deck to iron, with The Big Red Dog sticking back.
Someone please, for the love of all that is holy, copy and paste this onto a memo for Coach Self!!! He needs to see this and make it happen.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
@globaljaybird
Not necessarily since Baker scores a fair amount on drives to the basket and layups, but he shot only 33% for the game and 31% for the tournament.
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@JayHawkFanToo We’ll let’s see…They’re 1-2 vs top 25 & undefeated vs 50-201. Maybe our guard scoring pct would be so generous if we played as friendly SOS. I really do wish them well, but when, if ever they join a really good conf or do a UK, MSU or Duke type schedule then those stats might be taken more seriously. JMO
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@globaljaybird
Of course you can make any correlation you want but I am not sure the one you made is correct since it assumes that WSU has a weak strength of schedules and the teams WSU played have poor defenses. In fact, it is the opposites. WSU Strength of Schedule is ranked #37 by Ken Pom and its opponent defense is #28. There are only 4 teams in the top 50 with a better SOS and only 4 teams also in the top 50 with better ranked opponent defense. In short, the numbers show that WSU has played not only a tough schedule but it has done it against teams with good defenses. WSU SOS is ranked much higher that UK. MSU and Duke, the teams you mentioned. These are not my numbers, they are Ken Pomeroy’s numbers; I am sure if you look at Sagarin’s or Massey’s number they would be pretty much the same.
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@JayHawkFanToo My correlation is not as yours or some others may be. I don’t give a hoot about being correct. Have been married too long to worry about being right. I just “wanna be” happy, so Yada, Yada. When they play Florida, MSU, & UK in the same year, or even decade, then they may get to wear some big boy britches to the dance. Till then it’s all specs. This thread is a reference to tactics.
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@globaljaybird is rascal now sleeping in the recliner w/you? Pretty cozy!!! Home sweet home!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Naw, he’s sleeping on top of my son. I took the pic.
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@globaljaybird so let’s hear some updates on him.
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@Crimsonorblue22 He stole a stick & a half of butter off the conter a few days ago. Let’s just say it cleansed him rather well.
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@globaljaybird so funny!! Makes me smile!
