Post-Game Round-up -- Kansas 86 Iona 66
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I wouldn’t give up on Tarik as a starter just yet. The biggest reason he’s been so prone to fouls is we haven’t played a single team with traditional, post-up bigs. I look for him to show his value against Florida, Georgetown, and New Mexico more so than the teams we’ve played so far. That said, Embiid was fantastic tonight and I’m looking for more of that going forward. But, as HEM would say, temper your expectations a bit. He still has to learn to handle double teams better. He’s shown improvement on D and staying on his feet, but there’s a ways to go there before he can do the Withey. Most importantly, though, he has to show he can hold position and finish like that playing against thick, tough, Izzo-type bigs.
As for Greene, I think this game puts him on transfer alert. He’s shown a lot of passion and talent, but he’s a TO liability still and not a great defender, and there is another skilled wing already signed for the next class. I hope he’s in it for the long haul because he looks like a kid that could break out as an upperclassman, but I gotta think he’s giving a long hard think about transfering to UConn, his second choice. If that happens, it’s our loss, but I hope that’s not the case.
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Fun game once we got into a rhythm. Kept looking at the score in the later minutes of the first half, not believing we were only up by 5. It is great to see the freshman developing with each game.
Defense still struggling, but I have I still think the new rules are having an effect. Bottom line-we must learn to stop the dribble drive outside of the lane, because once penetration gets deeper, nearly all contact will be a foul on the defense, however slight. We seemed to do better in the second half.
Ellis is our offensive rock. Our freshman will have up and down nights. We need Perry to be the offensive staple to put us in the position to win any game. Looking like he is ready. What a stud.
Love Mason’s aggressiveness. Now is the time to let him drive and drive and perfect his ability to finish or make the right pass. Will need this in conference play. His dunk from Tharpe had me fall off my seat.
Tharpe is the man. Real PG. Started off slow tonight, and seemed to need Mason to get him going (shouldn’t need that)
Embiid: OMG. What a performance. You can see him develop with each game. I know we will see off-nights from him, but you can see the potential. Unfortunately, I now agree he looks to be OAD.
Wiggins quietly puts up 13. Doesn’t seem to have the killer instinct against every opponent, but after watching him in the Duke game, we will be fine. I have no fear he will finish plays when we need him. Seems like a great teammate (almost to a fault).
Selden was solid. Seems more mature than than the other freshman.
Black is critical for our success. I think his game, as well as Traylor, has been impacted the most by the new rules. We still need him to provide leadership due to his age. We still need a big body for certain games. CS needs to get him in the flow.
Good progress, though. O-State looked good crushing Memphis. Good thing we have time. We are not yet ready for them. RCJH
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Greene is too talented-- he is nothing like Rio. Rio was athletic but couldn’t handle the ball. Greene makes freshmen mistakes. As long as he learns from them, I expect him to have a very good future here.
I think Greene is a bit like Ellis was at this point last year: rough around the edges but evidence of great potential.
Embiid is on track to start before conference play. What an amazing talent for his age, size and experience. I think I can see him learning and getting better every game.
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Talent wise we all know Greene is hands-down better than Rio period. The ongoing saga that Rio created with his behavior was the reference only, consummated with his departure. Greene has a great upside but if he’s going to play with the big dogs, he has to act like a big dog-Plus pay his dues by working & patiently waiting his turn, & that may be another year or even longer the way this squad is stacked.JMO
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I agree - and sure hope Greene’s behavior doesn’t parallel Adams’… He needs to keep working hard and realize that he can get some chances this year, but he will be in a great position next year.
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Dang it!! Another game I couldn’t watch. I mean, come on! This is stupid. I listened to the game on 105.9 and honestly the commentary from our two local guys is pretty good sometimes. But, how many more games am I going to miss on tv?
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Nah, I think its just a matter of when Coach Self gets them to really understand how to play his Defense. When that happens, they will be incredible.
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Yah, thought of that too. Either he is in Coaches dog house or he is just rotating games with Conner and Brannen to give them both minutes, keep them happy and AT KU
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Thought I should share this article which pulls quotes from the post-game conference with Coach Self.
####Self keeps Greene out of win over Iona####
Kansas University freshman Brannen Greene was the only Jayhawk to not play in Tuesday’s 86-66 victory over Iona in Allen Fieldhouse.
KU coach Bill Self was asked…
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I think the Embiid party has indeed arrived early. There is no reason not to start Embiid now. Great performance tonight!
Please stay for one more season. It’s too much fun to watch you play!
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Regarding Greene, I have no inside information, but I’d like to think Coach Self realizes Greene’s talent, and want to keep both White and Greene happy by rotating them. Greene played more than White in the Duke game because he was more effective than White. And I believe Greene went in before White in that game too. So this game, White got his chance to shine first, and was effective. So there was no reason to bring Greene in. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Greene get in the game first in the next game. Just my 2 cents worth.
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I wonder if Coach Self is creating a trend here. When Mason is not playing well, he brings Frankamp, White and Traylor in to light a spark.
I think Frankamp might need anti-adrenaline shot when he has the ball and is open to shoot.
He seemed to have a good head controlling the ball, but his shot is either too weak or too strong. Hope it doesn’t take him half a season to settle down like Ellis.
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Anybody have any insight on the Greene thing? Someone on KU Sports said that he was slamming doors and throwing a tantrum. I don’t know if its true or not but he’s too talented to be on the bench.
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I saw Jesse’s article there. I assume he went over to Topeka? I tried out the KUSports forum last night, wasn’t the same without him there.
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I wish Joel would stop playing this way. He’s going to leave after a season if he keeps this up. And it was cool seeing his dad there, watching him play for the first time must have been quite a thrill for Mr. Embiid.
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Link to the Newell post from last evening-
In my estimation, the most informative & least opinionated writer from LJW, who left just as we have. Scroll to bottom of their homepage for an rss feed.
http://cjonline.com/sports/2013-11-19/embiid-emerges-ku-tops-iona-86-66
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For there being very little information regarding Greene not playing, I am getting the impression the rumor mills are starting to churn and it’s painting a negative image of Greene. I don’t think it’s fair to Greene to label him as a guy with a bad attitude, as I am seeing many posters do already.
Self was clear “he needs to take care of some responsibilities”
Self has also been known to put people in the toughening box, especially if he sees great potential.
My opinion is that Self played Greene over the others in the Duke game to give him a taste of what hard work and dedication could get him–the biggest of stages. Greene is the highest transfer risk, and I think Self knows that–so giving him a taste of the cake might be just enough to hold him over from transferring.
Frank Mason is not playing like the pure point guard he is and someone needs to reign him in quickly.
10 shots in 13 minutes? 2 assists? Out of all of those drives to the basket he was looking to score every one of them except for one in my opinion. I was going to make this comment after the Duke game, but it would have fallen on deaf ears due to his performance alone. Frank is driving to score, and not driving to create, and that needs to change. Frank is not a scorer. I like the aggressiveness, but he would be helping the team more if he has more like 5 FGA and 7-10 assists.
Frankamp is getting tougher. I like it.
Jamari is regressing slightly.
Tarik is still stale. Regardless if he is paying against smaller line ups 1 point and 1 board for the 5 is inexcusable.
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Couple quick thoughts before I talk about the guy I think was last night’s MVP.
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Greene will be back, but if Self’s comments are to be taken at face value, there are some classroom issues that may need some attention first.
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I was wrong about bringing Embiid along slowly. He is developing so much faster than I anticipated. Potential #1 pick fast.
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Perry Ellis has strangely become the first option for this team, and he’s handling that responsibility brilliantly. His improvement from last season to this is incredible.
As impressive as Embiid was last night (and he was amazing) I think I came away just as impressed with Tharpe and Selden. Tharpe is showing more and more that he is the perfect PG for this team. He just sets the table for everybody. The best play he made on the entire night didn’t even make it into the stat column, but it was a great PG play that I just can’t help but mention. Right after Frankamp had come into the game, Conner missed on a long three from the left wing. It was a miss, but Conner had a shooters bounce to his step after he took it, like he really liked the way it came off his hands. Next defensive possession, Conner forced a turnover and Naadir pushed the pace. Then Naadir made one of his best plays of the night, pushing the ball in semi transition like he was attacking the paint, then dropping the ball back to Conner for a good look at another three. Conner missed it, but that play from Naadir was a perfect PG play. Get a great shooter a good look after he just missed on a shot that felt good to him. That’s what good PGs do.
But if I had to give out a game ball, I’d have to get some recognition for Wayne Selden. Selden has shown that he can get his points when necessary (and it will be necessary), but he has also shown that when he doesn’t need to score, he can play within the offense without turning it over or taking a ton of shots just to “get his.” For a player with that kind of talent to be that unselfish without losing his aggressiveness is incredible.
I will say right now, this is the type of team that can win six games in a row in March because they can win by 20 against a decent team while having two of their three best scorers (Wiggins and Selden) basically get the night off offensively because Perry and JoJo were busy going crazy inside. There is no ceiling on this team offensively. If only the defense can catch up, this team goes from really dangerous to downright scary.
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Anyone else think the starters lacked some energy at the opening of last nights game? Good thing Self has a full bench to unload when we get like that. It was really hard to watch the hawks on defense for parts of last night with Iona getting open on the perimeter or just hustling more for the rebound. Also, there were a couple of Iona’s big guys that seemed to just drive into the lane at will- close the holes guys!
Wiggins reminds me a little bit of B-Mac in terms of his passive play sometimes. He just doesn’t get the ball enough! Could it be that he needs to do more to get himself into position, off the ball? Seems like he’s not always in the right spot at the right time, a couple of times I was hoping Mason would kick out to Wiggins but he had a man on him. Or perhaps we have too many other options on the team…
We clearly were putting up enough points last night, but I can’t help think we can still squeeze more out of the big wig.LOVED that Tharpe was so patient and didn’t chuck up threes ad nauseum! Last year he seemed a little trigger happy but that dude has control this year! The first play of the game was beautiful, they must have passed it 10 times before Perry shot it.
Random- I’d rather us hold Towson to 39 points than to score 100 in the upcoming game.
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Exciting game. Not too much to add that hasn’t already been said.
The one glaring problem for this team is defense. Too much standing around flat-footed. Guys are spectating too much instead of getting involved. Defense is about constantly moving your feet.
There is a way to solve that. Put a small rock in their shoes, back on the heel. They won’t be standing flat-footed any longer.
Imagine having to suffer through an entire practice like that?
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I got spoiled watching us play so well against Duke. I expected more out of ku slaying a small school in AFH. I felt like we took a step backwards. Our perimeter defense was poor. Of course Ellis continues to dominate games and Embiid totally came out last night. I noticed Self didn’t play Greene in the first half. When he rode the bench the first 10 minutes of the second half I knew he was in the Self dog house. No play time in the mop up just put an exclamation point on it. This morning I see that HCBS cited off court issues.
Hopefully the lesson is learned and he’s playing again next game.
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Auto check gets me again. slaying = playing
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@Blown : My wife and I were talking about Mason’s play after the game last night. We were both glad that he was willing to drive to the basket since Wiggins and Selden (first half > second half) seemed unwilling to but I too thought he should have looked more for the assists than the points.
Don’t take this the wrong way and say I’m a troll… but I do like Marcus Smarts game. But I don’t want my point guard to put up 39 points and only have 4 assists. I’d rather my pg put up 19 pts and have 14 assists. I really love the fact that Naa had 10 assists and 5 points last night. One of the best plays last night was his unselfish pass to Wiggins on a fast break that Naadir could have easily scored on but gave up the ball instead. That type of play is the reason I’m a fan of Steve Nash.
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- Perry Ellis has strangely become the first option for this team, and he’s handling that responsibility brilliantly. His improvement from last season to this is incredible.
Perry is super smart. I thought it was a brilliant play when he was trapped by the baseline. Rather than trying to make a difficult pass to a teammate, he shielded the ball with his body and waved the ball just over the baseline. With a slight touch from a defender, he let the ball go out of bound. KU throw in.
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Hey guys — Hope you don’t mind me showing my face here.
Just wanted to let you know we’ve been doing live game blogs over at the CJ for the KU basketball games, in case you’re interested. It’s a little different setup with Cover It Live, but it has some cool features. Hoping to get some of the gang back together there, including (hopefully) Jaybate? We’ll see.
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@Jesse Newell I might check it out. I assume you have to register and all that. Is it free, or do you have to subscribe?
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Anyone else think the starters lacked some energy at the opening of last nights game?
I thought the newbies were simply lost when Iona switched to zone. They probably hadn’t practiced against zone defense. Iona was well coached and very experienced. I thought they had many returnees from the last season. And I wasn’t surprised our new guys struggled against this experienced team. In the end, our talent won out.
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With CoverItLive, you don’t need any account. Just scroll to the bottom to comment, put in whatever name you want, and you’re good to go. Might take a second to post (I haven’t gotten them to post automatically yet; still working on that), but once we see the comment, we’ll post it to the site.
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@drgnslayr Imagine the voice of Sylvester Stallone in Victory, “No blisters!”
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Welcome @Jesse_Newell Always enjoy your writing and analysis. Keep up the good work!
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For those predisposed, CBS Sports Network tonight @ 7:00 pm has Wichita St at Tulsa. Expectantly we get to see Danny succeed vs a highly ranked team, even if it is early in the season. Also as last year, cbssports will have many A10 games through the conf season; Butler, St Louis, VCU, etc., when espn or fxsn has less meritorious options.
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Welcome, Jesse!
I’ll check it out.
You are always welcome over here… in fact… is there any way we can hold a Q&A with you on occasion? In the process, we can help support CoverItLive. I think if we set it up in the right way, we won’t step on anyone’s toes in the process. There are many great Jayhawk fans on this site, and you are the best resource for Jayhawk basketball. It makes sense to put both together… and in doing so, we can help both of these websites. It is all for one great cause, Jayhawk basketball!
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Thanks @Wishawk. And just let me know about the Q&A @drgnslayr. Be happy to do it if there’s interest.
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@Jesse_Newell We will start linking to your articles here regularly! Your analysis is top-notch
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@Jesse Newell Good to see you here. Read your piece this am already, nice work, as always
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@KIPMcSmithers–I agree with you on Marcus. He is in a unique situation because he is THEIR go to guy and primary ball handler, as I see it. Frank Mason has an arsenal of weapons surrounding him at all time; There is no need for him to not utilize them.
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Hey Jesse, just loaded the “new” Newell post in the fav bar this am. Here at buckets we are perpetually overjoyed to add superior quality insight to the swim. Also please pull Oakville & jb into the water if at all possible. Oak is occasionally commenting at LJW, but unfortunately without the fervent appreciation of the dozen or so posters contributing now. His clever, humorous, & continually savvy posts would be a great augmentation to our membership, as you are. Welcome aboard Jesse, please don’t be a stranger on the deck!
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Let me join in the chorus of Welcomes and Atta Boys for Jesse. Always enjoyed your work for KUSports. I hadn’t read the CJ sports section too much…now I’ve got a good reason!
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@Jesse Newell
Hey guys — Hope you don’t mind me showing my face here.
Just wanted to let you know we’ve been doing live game blogs over at the CJ for the KU basketball games, in case you’re interested. It’s a little different setup with Cover It Live, but it has some cool features. Hoping to get some of the gang back together there, including (hopefully) Jaybate? We’ll see.
Great to see you posting here. I was wondering why I had not seen any of your stories at the LJW and a quick search told me you are now with the Topeka CJ.
Looks like there are lots of changes at the LJW and IMHO, not for the better: Their forum is now a shadow of what it used to be and now, their top talent is leaving as well. Their loss our gain, I say.
Your insight is always welcome here; we will be obviously looking forward to seeing your posts. Many member from the other forum post here now, so their names will be familiar. Make yourself at home and welcome again.
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Thanks guys. Excited for the new opportunity. For now, just trying to get the word out that I’m over there now for those interested. Appreciate the positive feedback …
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Jesse’s preview of the Iona game was spot on:
Iona more dangerous to KU than name suggests
“Most likely, the Gaels will gun away from three, meaning a good shooting night could keep them in it, while a bad shooting night could result in a blowout. In the end, I think KU prevails, but I’m guessing it’ll be closer than most think. KU 78, Iona 68”
KU scored a bit more, but he was 2 points off on Iona. CJ’s gain is JW’s loss… Glad he’s still covering the Jayhawks!
Looking forward to your analysis of Towson.
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Welcome Jesse, Glad to have someone here from the good o’l days. Making a buck in Journalism these days is a gift. Will you be doing your breakdowns from POM? I’m very happy you’re doing this. Always thought you were the best of the bunch.
For the over 100,000 Jayhawk fans in the KC Metro area and for all of you west of Salina to the Colorado border, here’s what we missed last night. The short version.
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Good stuff on this page today, and good to see @Jesse_Newell here.
A couple things that really stood out to me -
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Black is just woefully ineffective right now. But this is still a small sample size. Even though we had some lower expectations based on the Memphis stats, this is below that baseline. So perhaps he’ll step it up.
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Though I do subscribe to the “temper the expectations” thought process as kD noted, it’s really, really hard regarding Embiid. As I’ve posted before, he is the key to our assent this season. He seems like the guy that could transform us into a great team.
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I’m not negative on Frankamp. It’s just hard for me to see him fitting as part of the rotation now. The way I see this is that Self just doesn’t know what he wants to do. Look at the boxscore – Only 5 guys played 20 minutes or more. Mason, 13, Traylor 10, Black 9, White 8, Frankamp 10. Rotation minutes, in my mind, are appx. 13 per game. We know Mason is in the rotation, and Black starts. That’s 7. While it seems that Self is expanding, he’s really contracting. The comment about playing Frankamp because Green was out may be right on there, and Self complimented CF. But where is this rotation going as we move forward? White only played 8 minutes against Iona. It seems like he’s being shut out of this, too. Again, this was Iona and we have 6 guys with rotation level minutes? Heading into the game, my hunch was that Greene was moving to the front of the pack in the White/Frankamp/Greene battle, but then he didn’t play for the vague reasons noted. The best explanation is that Self is just trying to figure out what he wants to do, and isn’t sure yet.
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Welcome Jesse. Look forward to reading you again.
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Back to the game and some assorted observations.
Embiid will be starting from here on. when Blackis in the game, the team seems to play at a much slower tempo; with him on the bench I noticed a much faster tempo.
Traylor’s motor is a two edged sword, it can make him very good or if he cannot control it, not so goo.
Frankamp’s defense was a nice surprise. There was lot of talk that he was a 'gunner" that would not be able to play Div. defense. Now we know he can.
Am I the only one that thinks that Mason was taking too many shoots? He was constantly penetrating and taking contested shots; although in all fairness, he was drawing fouls. Ideally, he should penetrate and if he does not draw the defense take it to the house, but if he draws the defense, she should pass to whoever is open for an easy two.
Wiggins is the silkiest player ever. He contributes in so many ways and sometimes you cannot even tell he is in the game. He will be the silent assassin.
This is by far the deepest team we have had in a long time; In addition to the five starters we have at least 5 other players that would star for any team in the conference. It is a tough job for Coach Self to spread the available minutes among that many deserving players.
Regardless of what Mr. Zenger says, the current contract still sucks. Having to troll for an internet stream is infuriating and frustrating and the quality of the available stream often not good.
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Sorry if someone mentioned this … I understand that you can get the ESPN 3 stream in the KC area if you have ATT Uverse by downloading Google chrome, and getting an “extension.” I apologize, I’m not a computer dude. But that extension will allow you to get the signal as it makes it appear that your IP address is out of this area. You then connect your laptop to your TV with an HDMI cable. Just what I heard …
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Dang it!! Another game I couldn’t watch. I mean, come on! This is stupid. I listened to the game on 105.9 and honestly the commentary from our two local guys is pretty good sometimes. But, how many more games am I going to miss on tv?
I posted a working link prior to the game. Not the greatest quality but watchable. We need to have a section prior to each game that is no widely available where links can be posted, so all of us that are blacked out can find a viable option.
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We need to have a section prior to each game that is no widely available where links can be posted, so all of us that are blacked out can find a viable option.
I think there were discussions in the KU Buckets Chat last night regarding this topic. That’s a good area for that topic as the transcript is not saved.
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Sorry if someone mentioned this … I understand that you can get the ESPN 3 stream in the KC area if you have ATT Uverse by downloading Google chrome, and getting an “extension.” I apologize, I’m not a computer dude. But that extension will allow you to get the signal as it makes it appear that your IP address is out of this area. You then connect your laptop to your TV with an HDMI cable. Just what I heard …
I have tried all the possible combinations with Surewest but I could not get it to work since Surewest is blacked out and regardless of what IP you have, you provider still shows. It could be because Surewest has subscribers only in the KC are a and a small base in California. Maybe, since ATT has a national presence, it is not blacked out as a provider but only through the IP.
Surewest is now called Consolidated Communications and has a larger footprint. I tried using their portal last time but it would not allow me with my Surewest login; I was told I need to talk to Consolidated tech. support to get access to their portal. I will try it for the next game.
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Yes, I thought Mason shot too much - I was expecting him to dish a bit more.
